I thought both Bamboozled and She Hate Me were terrible films, but if you categorically reject his entire body of work I think that makes you somewhat suspect.
I categorically dismiss M.C. Hammers entire body of work.
She Hate Me (2004) - GOOD[/b] 25th Hour (2002) - GOOD[/b] Bamboozled (2000) - NO GOOD[/b] Summer of Sam (1999) - EHH[/b] He Got Game (1998) - KINDA GOOD[/b] 4 Little Girls (1997) - GOOD[/b] Girl 6 (1996) - WEAK [/b] Malcolm X (1992) - GOOD[/b] Jungle Fever (1991) - GOOD[/b] Mo' Better Blues (1990) -EHH[/b] Do the Right Thing (1989) - EXCELLENT[/b] School Daze (1988) - GOOD[/b] She's Gotta Have It (1986) - EHH[/b]
I thought both Bamboozled and She Hate Me were terrible films, but if you categorically reject his entire body of work I think that makes you somewhat suspect.
I categorically dismiss M.C. Hammers entire body of work.
Sorry, they're not similarly situated within their fields of endeavor.
Spike Lee = one of the most important film makers of the past two decades MC Hammer = a good dancer, but that about it
She Hate Me (2004) - DIDNT SEE[/b] 25th Hour (2002) - DIDNT SEE[/b] Bamboozled (2000) - FUNNY[/b] Summer of Sam (1999) - DIDNT SEE[/b] He Got Game (1998) - DIDNT SEE[/b] 4 Little Girls (1997) - DIDNT SEE[/b] Girl 6 (1996) - DIDNT SEE [/b] Malcolm X (1992) - PANDERING CRAP[/b] Jungle Fever (1991) - CRAP[/b] Mo' Better Blues (1990) -CRAP[/b] Do the Right Thing (1989) - MILDLY CRAPPY[/b] School Daze (1988) - CRAP[/b] She's Gotta Have It (1986) - CRAP[/b]
well, i guess i see it this way. his movies are for people of color to sit around and go "mmm-hmm" and for white folks to go "oh really?" which is not bad per se. but i kinda see it as a defeat. that dude has to pander to an outside culture. has to constantly slap you across the face with his message. all the while preaching to the choir. see, i find it insulting when im being told something i already know and live. and i also find it sad that he has to service an outside culture. i like julie dash's movies cuz she dont explain shit. either you know, or you better pick up a fuckin book and start learning about it cuz she aint gonna slow down and explain it.
er, just my opinion.
Julie Dash! I think this is where our tastes in films diverge.
I don't think Lee is the same filmmaker now as he was when School Daze and Do the Right Thing came out. Do I think his characters are cartoony and stereotypical and heavy-handed? Somewhat...but I also think that of characters in Scorcese and Godard films. I know I'm coming off as his cheerleader, but truth be told, Bamboozled was the last film I saw by him and it had some good things in it, but overall I thought it was a disaster.
She Hate Me (2004) - GOOD[/b] 25th Hour (2002) - GOOD[/b] Bamboozled (2000) - NO GOOD[/b] Summer of Sam (1999) - EHH[/b] He Got Game (1998) - KINDA GOOD[/b] 4 Little Girls (1997) - GOOD[/b] Girl 6 (1996) - WEAK [/b] Malcolm X (1992) - GOOD[/b] Jungle Fever (1991) - GOOD[/b] Mo' Better Blues (1990) -EHH[/b] Do the Right Thing (1989) - EXCELLENT[/b] School Daze (1988) - GOOD[/b] She's Gotta Have It (1986) - EHH[/b]
You forgot Crooklyn. That's my favourite. Kid spraying whipcream in his mouth was my early 70s childhood.
She Hate Me (2004) - GOOD[/b] 25th Hour (2002) - GOOD[/b] Bamboozled (2000) - NO GOOD[/b] Summer of Sam (1999) - EHH[/b] He Got Game (1998) - KINDA GOOD[/b] 4 Little Girls (1997) - GOOD[/b] Girl 6 (1996) - WEAK [/b] Malcolm X (1992) - GOOD[/b] Jungle Fever (1991) - GOOD[/b] Mo' Better Blues (1990) -EHH[/b] Do the Right Thing (1989) - EXCELLENT[/b] School Daze (1988) - GOOD[/b] She's Gotta Have It (1986) - EHH[/b]
You forgot Crooklyn. That's my favourite. Kid spraying whipcream in his mouth was my early 70s childhood.
She Hate Me (2004) - GOOD[/b] 25th Hour (2002) - GOOD[/b] Bamboozled (2000) - NO GOOD[/b] Summer of Sam (1999) - EHH[/b] He Got Game (1998) - KINDA GOOD[/b] 4 Little Girls (1997) - GOOD[/b] Girl 6 (1996) - WEAK [/b] Malcolm X (1992) - GOOD[/b] Jungle Fever (1991) - GOOD[/b] Mo' Better Blues (1990) -EHH[/b] Do the Right Thing (1989) - EXCELLENT[/b] School Daze (1988) - GOOD[/b] She's Gotta Have It (1986) - EHH[/b]
You forgot Crooklyn. That's my favourite. Kid spraying whipcream in his mouth was my early 70s childhood.
Do I think his characters are cartoony and stereotypical and heavy-handed? Somewhat...but I also think that of characters in Scorcese and Godard films.
I hear you missbassie, but there is never anything remotely sappy, make me want to puke, sucky, sentimental in Scorsese and Godard films (although I haven't seen the last couple of Scorsese). That kind of shit is all over Spike Lee's work.
I thought both Bamboozled and She Hate Me were terrible films, but if you categorically reject his entire body of work I think that makes you somewhat suspect.
I categorically dismiss M.C. Hammers entire body of work.
Sorry, they're not similarly situated within their fields of endeavor.
Spike Lee = one of the most important film makers of the past two decades MC Hammer = a good dancer, but that about it
I thought both Bamboozled and She Hate Me were terrible films, but if you categorically reject his entire body of work I think that makes you somewhat suspect.
I categorically dismiss M.C. Hammers entire body of work.
Sorry, they're not similarly situated within their fields of endeavor.
Spike Lee = one of the most important film makers of the past two decades MC Hammer = a good dancer, but that about it
Your analogy fails.
ARE YOU DISSING ME?
BEEF!
I AM CHALLENGING YOU TO A DANCE-OFF IS WHAT I AM DOING!
Hammer employed a-lot of folks who needed it..thats why he's broke now [color:white] excluding the fact he had the mansion ,horse,cars and a ton of other material crap too.....but nevermind that [/color]
Hammer employed a-lot of folks who needed it..thats why he's broke now [color:white] excluding the fact he had the mansion ,horse,cars and a ton of other material crap too.....but nevermind that [/color]
Yeah, I respect that, too... but it counts more in favor of him being a good person than it does in favor of him being a good artist.
Hammer employed a-lot of folks who needed it..thats why he's broke now [color:white] excluding the fact he had the mansion ,horse,cars and a ton of other material crap too.....but nevermind that [/color]
Yeah, I respect that, too... but it counts more in favor of him being a good person than it does in favor of him being a good artist.
Do I think his characters are cartoony and stereotypical and heavy-handed? Somewhat...but I also think that of characters in Scorcese and Godard films.
I hear you missbassie, but there is never anything remotely sappy, make me want to puke, sucky, sentimental[/b] in Scorsese and Godard films (although I haven't seen the last couple of Scorsese). That kind of shit is all over Spike Lee's work.
Age of Innocence and Bringing Out The Dead made me want to puke. I think there are a lot of sucky men in Godard's films and lotsa sappy women, too. I don't think there's anything wrong with sentimental, like everything else, it has to be done right. Wait - I thought you liked Crooklyn - wouldn't you consider that to be one of Lee's more sappy and sentimental movies?
Naw, man, I'm obviously being somewhat facetious; I thought both Bamboozled and She Hate Me were terrible films, but if you categorically reject his entire body of work I think that makes you somewhat suspect.
ok i can agree with that
Spike Lee = one of the most important film makers of the past two decades
right under george lucas, right?
i agree on his importance as a ground breaker in the fact that he was the first black film maker that got in to the mainstream medias headlights, but as a film maker alone, putting the race factor aside, i find him average or somewhat below average, but it also has a lot to do with the media which is very inclined to hype everyone or anything it can to the point of making a person or a film unable to live up to the hype, and also the lower standards we have in the last 20 years for judging what is great and what is not, this has nothing to do with race, there are many recent white directors that get a great deal of praise and accolades and almost none of them deserve it
Age of Innocence and Bringing Out The Dead made me want to puke. I think there are a lot of sucky men in Godard's films and lotsa sappy women, too. I don't think there's anything wrong with sentimental, like everything else, it has to be done right. Wait - I thought you liked Crooklyn - wouldn't you consider that to be one of Lee's more sappy and sentimental movies?
I haven't seen Age of Innocence and Bringing Out The Dead, so you might have me there. I suspect this is probably the case with the Aviator and Gangs of New York. All of these are considered lesser works I believe. Certainly Raging Bull, Mean Streets, GoodFellas - don't remember much sucky in them.
Godard's films are at such a level of remove from what they depict that I think it is impossible for them to be sappy. They are so of a self-reflexive nature that if something seems sentimental, it's probably because Godard's making a point about sentimentality in movies. Honestly, you'll have to give me some examples. I don't even think his most straightforward film, Contempt, can be labelled this way. Of course, there was that mid-period where he got all teary-eyed about Maoism, but those films can be criticized for many more things before you decide that they are sappy.
I capitulate on Crooklyn, but it's only small moments in that film that I remember liking. As well, he takes the edge off the suckiness by squashing the aspect ratio for a third of it.
Actually, Malcolm X still chokes me up at the end.
In retrospect, the worst thing (or the best thing) about Do The Right Thing is whatserface dancing in the opening sequence. It's SO dated its funny, but in kind of an emberassing sorta way, in the sense that there was once a time where I was like "DOPE!"
Back to the subject at hand though, if you are challenging people on whether or not something you do is racist, a good idea might be to not do it all. I mean, if you have to PROVE to people that you aren't racist DESPITE your actions... well.... maybe you have some growing up to do.
Back to the subject at hand though, if you are challenging people on whether or not something you do is racist, a good idea might be to not do it all. I mean, if you have to PROVE to people that you aren't racist DESPITE your actions... well.... maybe you have some growing up to do.
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Now I'm supposed to like Spike Lee, so I won't have to prove to people I'm not racist?
Back to the subject at hand though, if you are challenging people on whether or not something you do is racist, a good idea might be to not do it all. I mean, if you have to PROVE to people that you aren't racist DESPITE your actions... well.... maybe you have some growing up to do.
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Now I'm supposed to like Spike Lee, so I won't have to prove to people I'm not racist?
Age of Innocence and Bringing Out The Dead made me want to puke. I think there are a lot of sucky men in Godard's films and lotsa sappy women, too. I don't think there's anything wrong with sentimental, like everything else, it has to be done right. Wait - I thought you liked Crooklyn - wouldn't you consider that to be one of Lee's more sappy and sentimental movies?
I haven't seen Age of Innocence and Bringing Out The Dead, so you might have me there. I suspect this is probably the case with the Aviator and Gangs of New York. All of these are considered lesser works I believe. Certainly Raging Bull, Mean Streets, GoodFellas - don't remember much sucky in them.
Godard's films are at such a level of remove from what they depict that I think it is impossible for them to be sappy. They are so of a self-reflexive nature that if something seems sentimental, it's probably because Godard's making a point about sentimentality in movies. Honestly, you'll have to give me some examples. I don't even think his most straightforward film, Contempt, can be labelled this way. Of course, there was that mid-period where he got all teary-eyed about Maoism, but those films can be criticized for many more things before you decide that they are sappy.
I capitulate on Crooklyn, but it's only small moments in that film that I remember liking. As well, he takes the edge off the suckiness by squashing the aspect ratio for a third of it.
Well, I'm not trying to get you or prove you wrong - ultimately, it's too subjective. I know what you're saying about "level of remove" about Godard, but dude is a romantic. And what's more sappy (no matter how beautiful and hip and poignant) than sassy cute girls in flouncy skirts being courted by up-to-no-good cute boys in blazers.
Yes, Weekend and Two or Three Things and Every Man for Himself are hardly sappy, but neither are Do The Right Thing and Jungle Fever.
To rephrase what a great man named Shig once said, that's just my opinion.
well, mon francophones, im not a huge fan of scorsese or godard. in fact, id take scorsese over godard because godard lays it on a lil too thick for my taste.
anyways, as far as african american mainstream directors go, i think id take charles burnett over spike lee. though its been a while since i seen a burnett film. i know dash aint ever gonna be mainstream. mostly because of her i dont give a shit attitude. which i think is punk rock.
Well, I'm not trying to get you or prove you wrong - ultimately, it's too subjective. I know what you're saying about "level of remove" about Godard, but dude is a romantic. And what's more sappy (no matter how beautiful and hip and poignant) than sassy cute girls in flouncy skirts being courted by up-to-no-good cute boys in blazers.
Who look at pictures of Bogart and dream about being gangstas...sorry, gangsters.
Comments
I categorically dismiss M.C. Hammers entire body of work.
25th Hour (2002) - GOOD[/b]
Bamboozled (2000) - NO GOOD[/b]
Summer of Sam (1999) - EHH[/b]
He Got Game (1998) - KINDA GOOD[/b]
4 Little Girls (1997) - GOOD[/b]
Girl 6 (1996) - WEAK [/b]
Malcolm X (1992) - GOOD[/b]
Jungle Fever (1991) - GOOD[/b]
Mo' Better Blues (1990) -EHH[/b]
Do the Right Thing (1989) - EXCELLENT[/b]
School Daze (1988) - GOOD[/b]
She's Gotta Have It (1986) - EHH[/b]
Sorry, they're not similarly situated within their fields of endeavor.
Spike Lee = one of the most important film makers of the past two decades
MC Hammer = a good dancer, but that about it
Your analogy fails.
and one you forgot
Clockers GOOD BECAUSE OF SAYEED[/B]
Julie Dash! I think this is where our tastes in films diverge.
I don't think Lee is the same filmmaker now as he was when School Daze and Do the Right Thing came out. Do I think his characters are cartoony and stereotypical and heavy-handed? Somewhat...but I also think that of characters in Scorcese and Godard films. I know I'm coming off as his cheerleader, but truth be told, Bamboozled was the last film I saw by him and it had some good things in it, but overall I thought it was a disaster.
I do not feel comfortable saying it.
Also, what's the deal with Latinos using it? They have no more right than me... shit is weak.
You forgot Crooklyn. That's my favourite. Kid spraying whipcream in his mouth was my early 70s childhood.
clockers-GOOD[/b]
oh yeah.
crooklyn MILDLY GOOD[/b]
HATTERS!
I hear you missbassie, but there is never anything remotely sappy, make me want to puke, sucky, sentimental in Scorsese and Godard films (although I haven't seen the last couple of Scorsese). That kind of shit is all over Spike Lee's work.
ARE YOU DISSING ME?
BEEF!
I AM CHALLENGING YOU TO A DANCE-OFF IS WHAT I AM DOING!
Hammer employed a-lot of folks who needed it..thats why he's broke now [color:white] excluding the fact he had the mansion ,horse,cars and a ton of other material crap too.....but nevermind that [/color]
Yeah, I respect that, too... but it counts more in favor of him being a good person than it does in favor of him being a good artist.
UNGAURD!
no doubt
Age of Innocence and Bringing Out The Dead made me want to puke.
I think there are a lot of sucky men in Godard's films and lotsa sappy women, too.
I don't think there's anything wrong with sentimental, like everything else, it has to be done right.
Wait - I thought you liked Crooklyn - wouldn't you consider that to be one of Lee's more sappy and sentimental movies?
ok i can agree with that
right under george lucas, right?
i agree on his importance as a ground breaker in the fact that he was the first black film maker that got in to the mainstream medias headlights, but as a film maker alone, putting the race factor aside, i find him average or somewhat below average, but it also has a lot to do with the media which is very inclined to hype everyone or anything it can to the point of making a person or a film unable to live up to the hype, and also the lower standards we have in the last 20 years for judging what is great and what is not, this has nothing to do with race, there are many recent white directors that get a great deal of praise and accolades and almost none of them deserve it
I haven't seen Age of Innocence and Bringing Out The Dead, so you might have me there. I suspect this is probably the case with the Aviator and Gangs of New York. All of these are considered lesser works I believe. Certainly Raging Bull, Mean Streets, GoodFellas - don't remember much sucky in them.
Godard's films are at such a level of remove from what they depict that I think it is impossible for them to be sappy. They are so of a self-reflexive nature that if something seems sentimental, it's probably because Godard's making a point about sentimentality in movies. Honestly, you'll have to give me some examples. I don't even think his most straightforward film, Contempt, can be labelled this way. Of course, there was that mid-period where he got all teary-eyed about Maoism, but those films can be criticized for many more things before you decide that they are sappy.
I capitulate on Crooklyn, but it's only small moments in that film that I remember liking. As well, he takes the edge off the suckiness by squashing the aspect ratio for a third of it.
Actually, Malcolm X still chokes me up at the end.
In retrospect, the worst thing (or the best thing) about Do The Right Thing is whatserface dancing in the opening sequence. It's SO dated its funny, but in kind of an emberassing sorta way, in the sense that there was once a time where I was like "DOPE!"
Back to the subject at hand though, if you are challenging people on whether or not something you do is racist, a good idea might be to not do it all. I mean, if you have to PROVE to people that you aren't racist DESPITE your actions... well.... maybe you have some growing up to do.
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Now I'm supposed to like Spike Lee, so I won't have to prove to people I'm not racist?
He's saying niggA[/b] not nigger[/b].
i believe he was refering to the original poster
Well, I'm not trying to get you or prove you wrong - ultimately, it's too subjective. I know what you're saying about "level of remove" about Godard, but dude is a romantic. And what's more sappy (no matter how beautiful and hip and poignant) than sassy cute girls in flouncy skirts being courted by up-to-no-good cute boys in blazers.
Yes, Weekend and Two or Three Things and Every Man for Himself are hardly sappy, but neither are Do The Right Thing and Jungle Fever.
To rephrase what a great man named Shig once said, that's just my opinion.
anyways, as far as african american mainstream directors go, i think id take charles burnett over spike lee. though its been a while since i seen a burnett film. i know dash aint ever gonna be mainstream. mostly because of her i dont give a shit attitude. which i think is punk rock.
Who look at pictures of Bogart and dream about being gangstas...sorry, gangsters.