This happened to my wife and I coming back through the Minneapolis Airport a while back. We checked in together, and the clerk asked for her ID and not mine. She was pissed[/b] and let that fact be clearly known. And as she has reminded me all the time since, this is a common everyday occurrance when you are Black. Doesn't matter if you are 'professional-looking' or 'thugged-out', you will face this shit head on all the time, it's in the details.
My girlfriend likes to get asked if she's using her Direction card (food stamps).
Of course, we had WIC like just last year, but still...
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
Yo Han Lucas,
Sure there are issues in the suburbs, but they do not relate to economic disadvantage, racial iniquities, undereducation, or lack of opportunity relative to the experience of Blacks. If you wanna talk about Appalachia and the plight of Whites there (who encounter social conditions very similar to those of the average Black person), then we can have a meaningful conversation. Otherwise, I think your point is moot relative to the larger issue I've been discussing.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Stacks and Hans--There's a balance and kind of a similarity--see if you can follow me. If I understand a couple of things, children of the ghetto are underexposed because of too little money, too little education, and being "swept under the carpet" by a large and foreboding system. This is a simplification of course, but just stay with me...Ghetto kids, in turn, internalize the negative shit that poor economic conditions breed. Thus, we have a culture of money affecting how children are raised.
On the flip-side: Children of the "too much money and too little work" ethic whom have been underexposed to other cultures are experiencing some real psychotic shit too. OxyContin in the cupboard, latchkey experience because Momma is bonin' the pool boy and Dad's runnin away to Thailand. Meanwhile, 50 is blazin in hte background and MTV is slowly melting away their mind... This is an EXTREME example of course, but it does point that in both cases there is a real void of moral gudiance that is VERY much influenced by socioeconomic conditions/MONEY!
The shit that really seperates the two, in my opinion, is that African-Americans, whom comprise a large part of the lower economic rung, didn't choose to be here. "Plymouth rock landed on them..." Many whites came here on their own volition. That aspect of "choice" does not excuse shit but it sure does explain it...
But, in some ways, that's just the chickens coming home to roost: if you done fucked a whole lot of people, it's gonna come back in the end--whether it be in the last generation or the current.
My motivation to work this "nigga" issue out and beyond might have been inspired by white guilt a while ago, but now I've figured out that I just like fixing shit and hence my desire to work in education. I just see Hip Hop as an extension of education and therefore have a deep seeded love for it.
gNat
Hey Gnat,
I guess we must agree to disagree on this one. I have a hard time mentally processing the notion of "White suburban plight" considering that I was reared in the suburbs and have seen the advantages first-hand. You think it's an accident that I'm a Ph.D. holding professor? I was blessed to have advantages that most Black folks couldn't even imagine. If they had these resources, our society wouldn't be so stratified by race (and class). At the same time, I have family that have grown up in adject poverty with absolutely nothing but hard times. I've seen REAL poverty, up-close and personal, by staying with them, visiting, etc. By the same token, I've lived among the White poor (as a graduate student; graduate assistantship stipends are meager) and believe you me, they deal with some fucked up shit too (but not racism). Not surprisingly, the urban blight and symptoms of poverty manifest themselves equally among the Black and White poor (e.g., government assistance, unwed mothers, drug use, crime, etc.). If you notice, I always mentioned race and class in my posts because the two interact (i.e., Blacks are disproportionately represented in the lower classes), but the poor of all races have a hard way to go. In sum, I just have a hard time shedding tears for advantaged suburbanites, especially those that do dumb shit and piss away opportunities that the disenfranchised would (and do, sometimes) kill for.
In sum, I just have a hard time shedding tears for advantaged suburbanites, especially those that do dumb shit and piss away opportunities that the disenfranchised would (and do, sometimes) kill for.
This is assuming of course the suburbanites had the moral guidance to know what to do with said "opportunties"--people have to be taught how to use tools no matter where they are from or what color they are. I do concede that it's a fucking thorn in any disadvantaged person's side though--looking at someone what "has it all" and is fucking up by doing nothing with it...
You know how they do "wife swap" on CBS and all that shit? They should do that with a suburbanite and an urbanite youth (on a more permanent basis of course for longevitiy purposes) and see what goes down...now there's a reality show that might really be worth watching...
Gnat:[/b] I don't think you understand that people move away from poor communities and go towards places like the suburbs, the opposite does not happen all too often (at least not by choice) The reason for this is it is easier to live and do better in life once you are out the ghetto.
The whole idea of suburban kids wanting to be from the ghetto is very strange. I don't think they actually want to be ghetto as much as they want to emulate the messages they hear on TV, film, and radio.
The first time you get jumped for being a "punk ass whiteboy" will open most folks eyes to how non-glamorous the ghetto really is..
Now I'm not sure how we got to this point when we were supposed to talking about the dreaded n-word. I liied it better when we were speaking on whiteboys with doo-rags...I'ma champion that shit for a second cause us dudes with the non tight curls try to get that relaxed look every once in a while. What really pisses me off is when a whiteboy wears a doo-rag then puts a hat on top of that...thats like socks and shoes for you head and unless you going to sprint while doing a headstand it just don't make sense
Some of the theories you spout in this thread are interesting as example but they are overall flawed, dangerous generalizations that have no place in the real world.
There is no metasocial rule to the complexity of the inner city and the suburbs. This idea of adolescent disenchantment due to bad parenting transcends race and culture. In is a non-specific notion and has nothing to do with race. It is as common as a Dan Fogelberg LP and says little about White privilege or Black depravity.
Big Stacks defined it best by citing his own personal history. Your generalizations are diffused by the examples he sites.
My understanding tells me that the Black Man's usage of the word " Nigger " is seriously complex historically and personally in regards to identity and self-definition while White Boy's usage of the word " Nigger " is mostly abject, profoundly conservative, and only of consequence as an aesthetic and fashionable choice of language.
In short it is a petty and embarrassing choice of words for a Honky but hey... nobody's perfect.
I'm going to come clean to you and hope you appreciate it...I started this post after a bar binge at 4AM...that's where the embarrassing "choice of words" came in....I feel sheepish that I attempted to tackle such a complicated subject while "not in the proper" mindset. But then again, nobody ever is really ready to deal with racism or the "Nigga" word as a white person--I'll be at the corner store or the diner or what have you and all of the sudden, some remark is made and being oblivious feels like where I want to be because hearing the disconcerting remarks of a passer-by or store owner got me WAY uncomfortable...I projected those feelings of discomfort out here to see if people could relate or have some discussion...
Anyway, all excuses aside, my convoluted thoughts came to SoulStrut in order to provoke something...a discussion at least...I'm not assuming that I wanted to "teach" or anything but it really brought out some good reactions...BigStacks, Drewn, Bambouche, AnthonyPearson and a whole bunch of others are on point and I always appreciate your input...I hope that I haven't marred myself (too badly) in anyway by tackling such a potent subject while inebriated and also being a newbie...yeah I'm back pedaling a bit from my initial inflammatory remarks--but I never meant any malintent. I'm done with this thread as I am sure all of you are...
Very nice post, indeed!!! Plus, a loooooong time ago I instructed the Soulstrut massive how White guys can be "down" with the brothers. Just be a "cool-ass White dude" who is not afraid to be himself. I've known several in my lifetime that were not ashamed to be a Judas Priest fan, but was secure enough to accompany me to where the Black folks hung out, just as I was interested and comfortable enough to tread where the White folks hung out. It's a give-and-take thing where each show mutual goodwill and interest to see how the other half lives. The pseudo-liberal (and xenophobic) White person engages in asymmetrical relations with the Blacks where the Black person is encouraged to venture into White circles, but the White person is too afraid to venture into the Black guy's social realm. I find this arrogant and condescending and choose not to form such one-sided friendships. If you're gonna be down, be down all the way or not at all. Stop frontin' (for those that are)!!!!
Something else that I think is stupid is how these suburban White kids are trying to be gangstas now. There is no reward in doing that, in fact, they are throwing away the very advantages that will aid their success in life. There are Black folks that would kill to have those advantages, so White guys doing dumb shit in the suburbs does not gain respect, but ridicule. Crime is a by-product of undereducation, poverty, lack of opportunity, and hopelessness, among other things. Wilin' out in the 'burbs serves no purpose whatsoever. Obsessing about saying "nigga" is silly and reflects a very narrow-minded and idealistic view of Black culture and its associated experiences. Being Black in America is a bitch and there is not one White guy that would want to walk 5 steps in Black shoes. We encounter daily indignities like (1) racial slurs, (2) being tailed by the cops, (3) rude treatment, (4) physical avoidance, (5) retrieving change from the register counter because the clerk is deathly afraid of making contact with your hand so he/she drops it, (6) being stared at and tailed at stores, (7) being passed over for service by customer service clerks or stepped in front of by White patrons (who I sternly correct, by the way), (8) having your points ignored or minimized in meetings, (9) being treated in a patronizing and condescending manner, (9) having your merits challenged by colleagues, superiors, subordinates, (10) having your $100 bill held up to the light to see if it's genuine, (11) having the clerk ask only you for ID when you use your charge card but not any other customers, (12) receiving bad service from waiters and waitresses, (13) watching folks cowar in the corner when you step on the elevator, (14) being stopped by the cops when you drive through a nice neighborhood and receive rude treatment and snide remarks, (14) having to be 10 times better than White colleagues to be consider merely "acceptable", (15) being stopped and questioned by the police because you "fit the description", and on and on. This is shit I've experienced personally and I'm an upper middle-class, well-educated, well-bred, courteous, respectable, and law-abiding Black man. So wannabees, still wanna be Black???
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
felt! we may have moved on from this thread but i was reading this again during lunch today and it inspired me to jot this down rill kwik. thank you Stacks and Bambouche. 'spect.
How do you exist in a place where they don???t really want you?
Friendly in your face, leave, they backstab and taunt you
Some have NO IDEA what its like steppin in my shoes
Every day im more depressed???.i have nothing to lose
Im 30 feet away, she starts grabbing her purse
Get a group of us together they yellin "DISPURSE!"
I was raised with manners and taught to be respectable
White girls are only interested because they think I have big testicles
Work twice as hard just to be deemed "acceptable"
Employers find out im black..check the recepticle???.
Sure enough???there lies my resume..
Twice as qualified as the guy they hired yesterday
Overlooked then looked over professionally
tokenly represented politically/congressionally
God bless TV???.for it has propegated and supported
Negative, stereotypical views from minds distorted
They ridicule our leaders, call them ignorant cheaters
My black ass cant pass, I don???t look like derek jeter
Sh*t, my phone bill is late PLUS they turned off my heater
If I were you I wouldn???t want to be me either
Everyday it???s a struggle being the innocent enemy
Treated like trash cause black is my identity???
Will I ever get fair rights? Maybe eventually???
But I wont hold my breath cuz that???s suicide essentially.
Very nice post, indeed!!! Plus, a loooooong time ago I instructed the Soulstrut massive how White guys can be "down" with the brothers. Just be a "cool-ass White dude" who is not afraid to be himself. I've known several in my lifetime that were not ashamed to be a Judas Priest fan, but was secure enough to accompany me to where the Black folks hung out, just as I was interested and comfortable enough to tread where the White folks hung out. It's a give-and-take thing where each show mutual goodwill and interest to see how the other half lives. The pseudo-liberal (and xenophobic) White person engages in asymmetrical relations with the Blacks where the Black person is encouraged to venture into White circles, but the White person is too afraid to venture into the Black guy's social realm. I find this arrogant and condescending and choose not to form such one-sided friendships. If you're gonna be down, be down all the way or not at all. Stop frontin' (for those that are)!!!!
Something else that I think is stupid is how these suburban White kids are trying to be gangstas now. There is no reward in doing that, in fact, they are throwing away the very advantages that will aid their success in life. There are Black folks that would kill to have those advantages, so White guys doing dumb shit in the suburbs does not gain respect, but ridicule. Crime is a by-product of undereducation, poverty, lack of opportunity, and hopelessness, among other things. Wilin' out in the 'burbs serves no purpose whatsoever. Obsessing about saying "nigga" is silly and reflects a very narrow-minded and idealistic view of Black culture and its associated experiences. Being Black in America is a bitch and there is not one White guy that would want to walk 5 steps in Black shoes. We encounter daily indignities like (1) racial slurs, (2) being tailed by the cops, (3) rude treatment, (4) physical avoidance, (5) retrieving change from the register counter because the clerk is deathly afraid of making contact with your hand so he/she drops it, (6) being stared at and tailed at stores, (7) being passed over for service by customer service clerks or stepped in front of by White patrons (who I sternly correct, by the way), (8) having your points ignored or minimized in meetings, (9) being treated in a patronizing and condescending manner, (9) having your merits challenged by colleagues, superiors, subordinates, (10) having your $100 bill held up to the light to see if it's genuine, (11) having the clerk ask only you for ID when you use your charge card but not any other customers, (12) receiving bad service from waiters and waitresses, (13) watching folks cowar in the corner when you step on the elevator, (14) being stopped by the cops when you drive through a nice neighborhood and receive rude treatment and snide remarks, (14) having to be 10 times better than White colleagues to be consider merely "acceptable", (15) being stopped and questioned by the police because you "fit the description", and on and on. This is shit I've experienced personally and I'm an upper middle-class, well-educated, well-bred, courteous, respectable, and law-abiding Black man. So wannabees, still wanna be Black???
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
felt! we may have moved on from this thread but i was reading this again during lunch today and it inspired me to jot this down rill kwik. thank you Stacks and Bambouche. 'spect.
How do you exist in a place where they don???t really want you? Friendly in your face, leave, they backstab and taunt you Some have NO IDEA what its like steppin in my shoes Every day im more depressed???.i have nothing to lose Im 30 feet away, she starts grabbing her purse Get a group of us together they yellin "DISPURSE!" I was raised with manners and taught to be respectable White girls are only interested because they think I have big testicles Work twice as hard just to be deemed "acceptable" Employers find out im black..check the recepticle???. Sure enough???there lies my resume.. Twice as qualified as the guy they hired yesterday
Overlooked then looked over professionally tokenly represented politically/congressionally God bless TV???.for it has propegated and supported Negative, stereotypical views from minds distorted They ridicule our leaders, call them ignorant cheaters My black ass cant pass, I don???t look like derek jeter Sh*t, my phone bill is late PLUS they turned off my heater If I were you I wouldn???t want to be me either Everyday it???s a struggle being the innocent enemy Treated like trash cause black is my identity??? Will I ever get fair rights? Maybe eventually??? But I wont hold my breath cuz that???s suicide essentially.
I recognize that rhyme pattern! These lyrics sound very Zesty.
felt! we may have moved on from this thread but i was reading this again during lunch today and it inspired me to jot this down rill kwik. thank you Stacks and Bambouche. 'spect.
How do you exist in a place where they don???t really want you? Friendly in your face, leave, they backstab and taunt you Some have NO IDEA what its like steppin in my shoes Every day im more depressed???.i have nothing to lose Im 30 feet away, she starts grabbing her purse Get a group of us together they yellin "DISPURSE!" I was raised with manners and taught to be respectable White girls are only interested because they think I have big testicles Work twice as hard just to be deemed "acceptable" Employers find out im black..check the recepticle???. Sure enough???there lies my resume.. Twice as qualified as the guy they hired yesterday
Overlooked then looked over professionally tokenly represented politically/congressionally God bless TV???.for it has propegated and supported Negative, stereotypical views from minds distorted They ridicule our leaders, call them ignorant cheaters My black ass cant pass, I don???t look like derek jeter Sh*t, my phone bill is late PLUS they turned off my heater If I were you I wouldn???t want to be me either Everyday it???s a struggle being the innocent enemy Treated like trash cause black is my identity??? Will I ever get fair rights? Maybe eventually??? But I wont hold my breath cuz that???s suicide essentially.
Thank you ... let me know if you ever record this (acapella or over music)
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
felt! we may have moved on from this thread but i was reading this again during lunch today and it inspired me to jot this down rill kwik. thank you Stacks and Bambouche. 'spect.
How do you exist in a place where they don't really want you?
Friendly in your face, leave, they backstab and taunt you
Some have NO IDEA what its like steppin in my shoes
Every day im more depressed; i have nothing to lose
Im 30 feet away, she starts grabbing her purse
Get a group of us together they yellin "DISPURSE!"
I was raised with manners and taught to be respectable
White girls are only interested because they think I have big testicles
Work twice as hard just to be deemed "acceptable"
Employers find out im black..check the recepticle.
Sure enough; there lies my resume..
Twice as qualified as the guy they hired yesterday
Overlooked then looked over professionally
tokenly represented politically/congressionally
God bless TV; for it has propegated and supported
Negative, stereotypical views from minds distorted
They ridicule our leaders, call them ignorant cheaters
My black ass cant pass, I dont look like derek jeter
Sh*t, my phone bill is late PLUS they turned off my heater
If I were you I wouldn't want to be me either
Everyday it's a struggle being the innocent enemy
Treated like trash cause black is my identity???
Will I ever get fair rights? Maybe eventually;
But I wont hold my breath cuz that's suicide essentially.
Yo Trill,
Nicely put!!! Burn me a copy of it when you record it. Like Sly & the Family Stone said, it's the "Skin I'm In."
Comments
My girlfriend likes to get asked if she's using her Direction card (food stamps).
Of course, we had WIC like just last year, but still...
Hey Gnat,
I guess we must agree to disagree on this one. I have a hard time mentally processing the notion of "White suburban plight" considering that I was reared in the suburbs and have seen the advantages first-hand. You think it's an accident that I'm a Ph.D. holding professor? I was blessed to have advantages that most Black folks couldn't even imagine. If they had these resources, our society wouldn't be so stratified by race (and class). At the same time, I have family that have grown up in adject poverty with absolutely nothing but hard times. I've seen REAL poverty, up-close and personal, by staying with them, visiting, etc. By the same token, I've lived among the White poor (as a graduate student; graduate assistantship stipends are meager) and believe you me, they deal with some fucked up shit too (but not racism). Not surprisingly, the urban blight and symptoms of poverty manifest themselves equally among the Black and White poor (e.g., government assistance, unwed mothers, drug use, crime, etc.). If you notice, I always mentioned race and class in my posts because the two interact (i.e., Blacks are disproportionately represented in the lower classes), but the poor of all races have a hard way to go. In sum, I just have a hard time shedding tears for advantaged suburbanites, especially those that do dumb shit and piss away opportunities that the disenfranchised would (and do, sometimes) kill for.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
This is assuming of course the suburbanites had the moral guidance to know what to do with said "opportunties"--people have to be taught how to use tools no matter where they are from or what color they are. I do concede that it's a fucking thorn in any disadvantaged person's side though--looking at someone what "has it all" and is fucking up by doing nothing with it...
You know how they do "wife swap" on CBS and all that shit? They should do that with a suburbanite and an urbanite youth (on a more permanent basis of course for longevitiy purposes) and see what goes down...now there's a reality show that might really be worth watching...
The whole idea of suburban kids wanting to be from the ghetto is very strange. I don't think they actually want to be ghetto as much as they want to emulate the messages they hear on TV, film, and radio.
The first time you get jumped for being a "punk ass whiteboy" will open most folks eyes to how non-glamorous the ghetto really is..
Now I'm not sure how we got to this point when we were supposed to talking about the dreaded n-word. I liied it better when we were speaking on whiteboys with doo-rags...I'ma champion that shit for a second cause us dudes with the non tight curls try to get that relaxed look every once in a while. What really pisses me off is when a whiteboy wears a doo-rag then puts a hat on top of that...thats like socks and shoes for you head and unless you going to sprint while doing a headstand it just don't make sense
Some of the theories you spout in this thread are interesting as example but they are overall flawed, dangerous generalizations that have no place in the real world.
There is no metasocial rule to the complexity of the inner city and the suburbs. This idea of adolescent disenchantment due to bad parenting transcends race and culture. In is a non-specific notion and has nothing to do with race. It is as common as a Dan Fogelberg LP and says little about White privilege or Black depravity.
Big Stacks defined it best by citing his own personal history. Your generalizations are diffused by the examples he sites.
My understanding tells me that the Black Man's usage of the word " Nigger " is seriously complex historically and personally in regards to identity and self-definition while White Boy's usage of the word " Nigger " is mostly abject, profoundly conservative, and only of consequence as an aesthetic and fashionable choice of language.
In short it is a petty and embarrassing choice of words for a Honky but hey... nobody's perfect.
Translation:
Anyway, all excuses aside, my convoluted thoughts came to SoulStrut in order to provoke something...a discussion at least...I'm not assuming that I wanted to "teach" or anything but it really brought out some good reactions...BigStacks, Drewn, Bambouche, AnthonyPearson and a whole bunch of others are on point and I always appreciate your input...I hope that I haven't marred myself (too badly) in anyway by tackling such a potent subject while inebriated and also being a newbie...yeah I'm back pedaling a bit from my initial inflammatory remarks--but I never meant any malintent. I'm done with this thread as I am sure all of you are...
Peace...
Gnat
felt! we may have moved on from this thread but i was reading this again during lunch today and it inspired me to jot this down rill kwik. thank you Stacks and Bambouche. 'spect.
How do you exist in a place where they don???t really want you?
Friendly in your face, leave, they backstab and taunt you
Some have NO IDEA what its like steppin in my shoes
Every day im more depressed???.i have nothing to lose
Im 30 feet away, she starts grabbing her purse
Get a group of us together they yellin "DISPURSE!"
I was raised with manners and taught to be respectable
White girls are only interested because they think I have big testicles
Work twice as hard just to be deemed "acceptable"
Employers find out im black..check the recepticle???.
Sure enough???there lies my resume..
Twice as qualified as the guy they hired yesterday
Overlooked then looked over professionally
tokenly represented politically/congressionally
God bless TV???.for it has propegated and supported
Negative, stereotypical views from minds distorted
They ridicule our leaders, call them ignorant cheaters
My black ass cant pass, I don???t look like derek jeter
Sh*t, my phone bill is late PLUS they turned off my heater
If I were you I wouldn???t want to be me either
Everyday it???s a struggle being the innocent enemy
Treated like trash cause black is my identity???
Will I ever get fair rights? Maybe eventually???
But I wont hold my breath cuz that???s suicide essentially.
I recognize that rhyme pattern! These lyrics sound very Zesty.
And I like them.
gracias, mr. hogg.
audio coming soon?
Thank you ... let me know if you ever record this (acapella or over music)
Yo Trill,
Nicely put!!! Burn me a copy of it when you record it. Like Sly & the Family Stone said, it's the "Skin I'm In."
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
PassedTheSystem
Cheers...
PM address