So I spilled some wine last night and made some inflammatory comments--lemme do some qualifying here so that we can "break the bread" & squash any "virtual beef".
Most people on SS don't know me and therefore don't know my personality: flippant, trying to laugh when shit is fucked up and deathly serious...I'll try to respond to you all in sum...I would have responded earlier but I had to finish teaching ( a surprise to some but I am in fact an educator)...
I was being quite serious when I said things like
I'm fucking curious to hear about others and their escapades with this word whether you're black purple or what ever the fuck...I realize that this is a charged word/concept and implies racial subjugation of black folks back in the day and even currently by some backwards-ass fucks...BUTT Mind you I am not making light of that at all...
I was also being quite sarcastic--a little toungue and cheek when I said:
I have worked through my "N" word issues ( cause after all, I have black friends ).
because this is such a typical thing for someone to say when they are insecure about certain subjects--i.e. race, sexuality, etc...
Mostly I was just inquisitive and think that I needed to be--especially when it evokes responses from people like it did...PEOPLE REALLY TRIPPED ON THIS THREAD! So let's fucking talk alright!
This word "nigga" does and should make white people feel insecure--it does me. DREWN--I don't use that word in social context NOR as a greeting--it fascinates me though--how it is used within Black Culture and the Culture of Hip Hop (and its hybrid)--"Nigger" became "nigga"--the "taking back the word" phenomon that DiskJockingMost mentioned. This is a concept within urban cultures that I appreciate and love--taking something shitty, negative and altogether hateful and making it something positive--well as positive as one could get it. It paralells grafitti--taking an ugly ass train and making an artistic statement...I could go on but you ALL get me...
The things is, white folks are and have been present in hip hop from the beginning. Also, Hip hop has a huge association and constant use of the word nigga--and now that record companies will exploit (fiend for) every fucking catch phrase under the sun whether it be "B", "over therr", "hyphy"--these words become common vocabulary and people don't know what they mean. Such corporations will sell that shit like crack to and will therefore be appropriated by suburban kids all day.
I don't know what half the shit means anymore but I do know I can't imagine being greeted too well if I used the "nigga" word other than a point of discussion. UNDERSTAND THAT... I don't think that I should be chastized for that though--discussing. I will say that if I offended you because I intended to "inflame" (which I did in part to kick a discussion off), sorry for the Jerry Springer like start--I apologize--I meant no REAL beef, just simply to start a discussion that is on both black and white folks minds. The strong response within American society (and Souls Strut Society) makes me think that we have some issues to work through as far as inter-racial relations are concerned.
But seriously, Y'all don't approve of my Promo picture then, right?
Yeah, that shit makes me cringe--hopefully it will die in your mind sometime soon DREWN...otherwise fuckit--you can do your thing and I can do mine.
So I spilled some wine last night and made some inflammatory comments--lemme do some qualifying here so that we can "break the bread" & squash any "virtual beef".
Most people on SS don't know me and therefore don't know my personality: flippant, trying to laugh when shit is fucked up and deathly serious...I'll try to respond to you all in sum...I would have responded earlier but I had to finish teaching ( a surprise to some but I am in fact an educator)...
I was being quite serious when I said things like
I'm fucking curious to hear about others and their escapades with this word whether you're black purple or what ever the fuck...I realize that this is a charged word/concept and implies racial subjugation of black folks back in the day and even currently by some backwards-ass fucks...BUTT Mind you I am not making light of that at all...
I was also being quite sarcastic--a little toungue and cheek when I said:
I have worked through my "N" word issues ( cause after all, I have black friends ).
because this is such a typical thing for someone to say when they are insecure about certain subjects--i.e. race, sexuality, etc...
Mostly I was just inquisitive and think that I needed to be--especially when it evokes responses from people like it did...PEOPLE REALLY TRIPPED ON THIS THREAD! So let's fucking talk alright!
This word "nigga" does and should make white people feel insecure--it does me. DREWN--I don't use that word in social context NOR as a greeting--it fascinates me though--how it is used within Black Culture and the Culture of Hip Hop (and its hybrid)--"Nigger" became "nigga"--the "taking back the word" phenomon that DiskJockingMost mentioned. This is a concept within urban cultures that I appreciate and love--taking something shitty, negative and altogether hateful and making it something positive--well as positive as one could get it. It paralells grafitti--taking an ugly ass train and making an artistic statement...I could go on but you ALL get me...
The things is, white folks are and have been present in hip hop from the beginning. Also, Hip hop has a huge association and constant use of the word nigga--and now that record companies will exploit (fiend for) every fucking catch phrase under the sun whether it be "B", "over therr", "hyphy"--these words become common vocabulary and people don't know what they mean. Such corporations will sell that shit like crack to and will therefore be appropriated by suburban kids all day.
I don't know what half the shit means anymore but I do know I can't imagine being greeted too well if I used the "nigga" word other than a point of discussion. UNDERSTAND THAT... I don't think that I should be chastized for that though--discussing. I will say that if I offended you because I intended to "inflame" (which I did in part to kick a discussion off), sorry for the Jerry Springer like start--I apologize--I meant no REAL beef, just simply to start a discussion that is on both black and white folks minds. The strong response within American society (and Souls Strut Society) makes me think that we have some issues to work through as far as inter-racial relations are concerned.
But seriously, Y'all don't approve of my Promo picture then, right?
Yeah, that shit makes me cringe--hopefully it will die in your mind sometime soon DREWN...otherwise fuckit--you can do your thing and I can do mine.
Peace Gnat
Weak.
There's really no need for a "discussion" on this point and there really are no "issues to work through".
By the way Stacks--this is exactly what I wanted to say abd the response I was trying to evoke. Yes, naive and condescending I was, but you got my point across. "token gestures of solidarity". Brilliant...
So-called acting Black, engaging in token gestures to show solidarity with us does nothing to erase the reprehensible inequity that divides the races on a daily basis, and perpetuates social stratification by race (and class) and White privilege. These guys wanna be Black until they can return to their suburban enclave by nightfall. The "Black experience" for many Black folks has way more fucked up elements than the average White guy would ever want to deal with.
Back to the subject at hand though, if you are challenging people on whether or not something you do is racist, a good idea might be to not do it all. I mean, if you have to PROVE to people that you aren't racist DESPITE your actions... well.... maybe you have some growing up to do.
I'm not quite sure what your point is. Now I'm supposed to like Spike Lee, so I won't have to prove to people I'm not racist?
i believe he was refering to the original poster
Right. I dont really care what people think of Spike Lee. But it does get on my nerves when certain folks want to go on and on why its ok for them to say Nigga or whatever. Basically, what I meant was this:
1. If you have to use your "black friends" as an excuse or as a "pass" for whatever it is your doing, then grow up.
2. If the only reason you have "black friends" is because it makes you feel "down", then guess what? You probably aren't really a friend at all. What you are is a minstrel in blackface imitating a race without having to suffer the negative aspects of really being part of that race because it satisfies some inner longing to be part of something, i.e. you probably have self esteem issues, or issues with "fitting in". I dont doubt that you enjoy the company of your "black friends", but really, honestly ask yourself, if you weren't fascinated by the culture and music or whatever, would you still have these friends? If you were a die-hard punk rocker, would these dudes be your friends?
The fact is, who your friends are doesn't give you a "pass" for jack shit. If you and your friends are comfortable calling each other "nigga" then have a fucking field day. In the mean time, outside the gates of your own private mind garden is what we call the "real world", where shit isn't that simple.
To my black strutter brethren that want to know why we are dying to say "nigga":
The answer is because most people have an urge to emulate that which they think is "cool". I won't even front, I STILL do to a certain degree. And if you are a white kid, or a mexican kid, or whatever, and these rap stars are your idols, you're bound to want to emulate it, and desire to be a "part of it". Especially in the case of rap music (as opposed to daily american life) the white person is generally excluded. There are many white people who are telling themselves that "oh- thats not me... I'm down... I'm not some square ass white dude... I listen to rap... I understand the black experience...blah blah blah". Even though all the know of the so-called "black experience" is what they hear in rap music and see in rap videos. But to be a part of it, you have to act the part, so here they are.... Wearing baggy clothes and fake chains and tilted hats and doo-rags. Calling each other Nigga. And the excuse is always "well, thats the music I like, these are the clothes I like, can't I do what I like??" I garuntee there will always be kids like this, with the "I'm down for the culture... I like black culture better than my own..." And eventually they will grow up and grow out of it. I think its just a phase, and part of growing up. Like getting a mohawk if you're into the punk rock scene. You are emulating what you think is cool. Growing a mohawk isn't the same as calling everybody Nigga though, because the reaction from people is different, even if the motivation (fitting in with what you think is cool) is the same.
So I can grow a mohawk but cant say "nigga" cuz I'm white?!?!?! DAMN RIGHT! NOW GROW UP!!!!
If you are tring to be "down" with a whole fucking race of people you are an idiot. Just be nice to people, for chrissakes. Wave hi to your neighbor and shit. If you are a good person with honest intentions then in the end you'll be "down" with whoever you meet.
ok, rant over.
holy moley! i mean, salary diz is much more serious than dizzy bull. like, i'll drink soju with dizzy bull, but something tells me salary diz would opt for some earl grey with a spot of milk.
diz, you are a complex multifaceted dude.
anyways, i hate to bring it up, cuz i know how some folks like to get all riled up about their white girls, but that big boobed blonde chick had a different angle on the whole thing one day.
so as usual, im watching BET on my lunch break. and she's all "i just dont get them. they always have b-words [hey, her words not mine] and hoes in their videos and they use the n word and i hate that." now, she was kinda asking it as a question, but not really as a question. more as a statement. a stance on where she stood on african american culture. she doesnt like it and she doesnt get it. all indignant like. like everything in this world is supposed to be digestible to her. and so im like "you know, i dont think they had you in mind when "they" make the music."
and this is the other side to that. sure, there are people that want to be "down" or whatevers, but there is also a large population of white folks that want nothing to do with african american culture and are disgruntled and/or offended because the culture is not presenting itself at all to them, yet has permeated the mainstream consciousness. now, both are annoying if you ask me. but at least one of these sub groups is attempting to understand it, as half-assed as it may be.
just my observations here. but in the end, i still love you guys!
Four pages of posts and like 800 views? No issue? I think you are wrong...you've missed the point entirely. The word means something and is loaded for a lot of reasons...it's worth dissecting. When it comes down to it--we don't know enough about each nor how to interact with one another when one word can polarize several well meaning people into heated camps.
too much to read as i got here kinda late. imma put it like eazy e said it 15 years ago to the day... "nigga say nigga we cool, but/ cracka say nigga better nut the f*ck up!"
Maybe because I offended you and made you think...sorry...my bad...I forgive you by the way...
Could you be more condescending? If you have read a decent portion of the posts on this board, you would know that tripledouble makes more than his fair share of thoughtful, well reasoned posts.
I can tell you that your initial post and it's follow up did nothing to provoke any "much needed discussion". I think most folks on here are well aware of what is associated with this word. What type of discussion were you hoping to provoke? What about the history and usage of this word and all the terrible things that go along with that is still unresolved? Please tell me.
As an educator (albeit one with poor writing skills) I am sure you have thought about these things, so please enlighten us.
cause it burns some white motherfuckers up that theres one privilege that they dont have!
I've heard that explanation before (I think in that same Chris Rock bit that Faux mentioned), but I still don't see why people would view that as a privilege. "Congratulations, you were born Black and now get to address people with what was once (and is still considered by many to be) the mother of all demeaning epithets."
If a Black person wants to "take that word back" and give it new meaning, that is his or her prerogative. However, a white person "taking it back" would imply ill-natured intent, making it less of a matter of privilege and more a matter of abuse.
i dunno but white dudes always call me Bro...and i hate that shit with a passion...i know they dont mean any harm but...it annoys the fuck outta me
Reminds me of Samuel L. Jackson's character in Die Hard With A Vengance: "'Bro'?!?! Dammit, motherfucker! get off the Goddamn phone!" haha I always use "bro" when talking to anybody. I think I might of had one slip when I talked to you. Whoops!
i dunno but white dudes always call me Bro...and i hate that shit with a passion...i know they dont mean any harm but...it annoys the fuck outta me
Reminds me of Samuel L. Jackson's character in Die Hard With A Vengance: "'Bro'?!?! Dammit, motherfucker! get off the Goddamn phone!" haha I always use "bro" when talking to anybody. I think I might of had one slip when I talked to you. Whoops!
Bro is definitely a socal word. like surfers and stuff. I actually kinda hate being called bro also, albeit probably not for the same reasons.
Maybe because I offended you and made you think...sorry...my bad...I forgive you by the way...
thanks for the lesson in race politics dude! i was completly lost until you turned on the light for me! god bless soulstrut and god bless you dear sir!
Four pages of posts and like 800 views? No issue? I think you are wrong...you've missed the point entirely. The word means something and is loaded for a lot of reasons...it's worth dissecting. When it comes down to it--we don't know enough about each nor how to interact with one another when one word can polarize several well meaning people into heated camps.
You're a condescending prick, and if anybody was struggling to put their finger on the reason why before, I don't think they'll continue to have that problem after this series of posts.
Your post has not, as you say, "polarize[d] several well meaning people into heated camps". As far as I can tell the "camps" consist of: 1) you, and 2) the people you've managed to annoy. And I'm really not sure how well-meaning you are.
Four pages of posts and like 800 views? No issue? I think you are wrong...you've missed the point entirely. The word means something and is loaded for a lot of reasons...it's worth dissecting. When it comes down to it--we don't know enough about each nor how to interact with one another when one word can polarize several well meaning people into heated camps.
You're a condescending prick, and if anybody was struggling to put their finger on the reason why before, I don't think they'll continue to have that problem after this series of posts.
Your post has not, as you say, "polarize[d] several well meaning people into heated camps". As far as I can tell the "camps" consist of: 1) you, and 2) the people you've managed to annoy. And I'm really not sure how well-meaning you are.
There also seems to be separate camps of 1)Those who like Spike Lee movies and 2) Those who don't. That seemed to take up about 2 pages of these posts.
Four pages of posts and like 800 views? No issue? I think you are wrong...you've missed the point entirely. The word means something and is loaded for a lot of reasons...it's worth dissecting. When it comes down to it--we don't know enough about each nor how to interact with one another when one word can polarize several well meaning people into heated camps.
You're a condescending prick, and if anybody was struggling to put their finger on the reason why before, I don't think they'll continue to have that problem after this series of posts.
Your post has not, as you say, "polarize[d] several well meaning people into heated camps". As far as I can tell the "camps" consist of: 1) you, and 2) the people you've managed to annoy. And I'm really not sure how well-meaning you are.
There also seems to be separate camps of 1)Those who like Spike Lee movies and 2) Those who don't. That seemed to take up about 2 pages of these posts.
Oh yeah... how could I forget about those additional camps of well-meaning people?
However, a white person "taking it back" would imply ill-natured intent, making it less of a matter of privilege and more a matter of abuse and total stupidity[/b].
I love how so many white people love to act like racism is a thing of the past, yet cry foul when they need to be informed that the word is out of bounds for them[/b]. It just is, stupid. And if you have[/b] to quote someone one using it, yes, you better act like it makes you uncomfortable, becuz it SHOULD make you uncomfortable. jesus, why is this so hard for people?
However, a white person "taking it back" would imply ill-natured intent, making it less of a matter of privilege and more a matter of abuse and total stupidity[/b].
I love how so many white people love to act like racism is a thing of the past, yet cry foul when they need to be informed that the word is out of bounds for them[/b]. It just is, stupid. And if you have[/b] to quote someone one using it, yes, you better act like it makes you uncomfortable, becuz it SHOULD make you uncomfortable. jesus, why is this so hard for people?
agreed. My initial reading of the first post was that it was written by someone who already uses the word and was looking for some sort of positive reinforcement.
Like, "Oh, well, you're obviously conscious of the issues attendant in the utterance so go right ahead and continue using it"
Four pages of posts and like 800 views? No issue? I think you are wrong...you've missed the point entirely. The word means something and is loaded for a lot of reasons...it's worth dissecting. When it comes down to it--we don't know enough about each nor how to interact with one another when one word can polarize several well meaning people into heated camps.
Here's aword that you can use that shouldn't rub anyone wrong-
family[/b]
It's respectful and works on may levels. Try it out.
by the way on the whiteboy with doo-rags thing, I never wore a doo-rag but think that some whiteboys can do it as long as they don't try to make a fashion statement out of it...some of us sprout Jewfros if we don't relax our curls
by the way on the whiteboy with doo-rags thing, I never wore a doo-rag but think that some whiteboys can do it as long as they don't try to make a fashion statement out of it...some of us sprout Jewfros if we don't relax our curls
guzzo... switch over to the alhambra folkways thread and bail this shit... it's much more fun with folkways.
Comments
1. J'adore Bresson, Marker et Goddard!
2. True story: I addressed a student at my school as dude and he (Black kid) said "Don't call me dude! Call me Nigga!"
3. NOTHING is worse than white dudes in fucking doo-rags (ie. Eminem on cover of latest Scratch)
Most people on SS don't know me and therefore don't know my personality: flippant, trying to laugh when shit is fucked up and deathly serious...I'll try to respond to you all in sum...I would have responded earlier but I had to finish teaching ( a surprise to some but I am in fact an educator)...
I was being quite serious when I said things like
I was also being quite sarcastic--a little toungue and cheek when I said: because this is such a typical thing for someone to say when they are insecure about certain subjects--i.e. race, sexuality, etc...
Mostly I was just inquisitive and think that I needed to be--especially when it evokes responses from people like it did...PEOPLE REALLY TRIPPED ON THIS THREAD! So let's fucking talk alright!
This word "nigga" does and should make white people feel insecure--it does me. DREWN--I don't use that word in social context NOR as a greeting--it fascinates me though--how it is used within Black Culture and the Culture of Hip Hop (and its hybrid)--"Nigger" became "nigga"--the "taking back the word" phenomon that DiskJockingMost mentioned. This is a concept within urban cultures that I appreciate and love--taking something shitty, negative and altogether hateful and making it something positive--well as positive as one could get it. It paralells grafitti--taking an ugly ass train and making an artistic statement...I could go on but you ALL get me...
The things is, white folks are and have been present in hip hop from the beginning. Also, Hip hop has a huge association and constant use of the word nigga--and now that record companies will exploit (fiend for) every fucking catch phrase under the sun whether it be "B", "over therr", "hyphy"--these words become common vocabulary and people don't know what they mean. Such corporations will sell that shit like crack to and will therefore be appropriated by suburban kids all day.
I don't know what half the shit means anymore but I do know I can't imagine being greeted too well if I used the "nigga" word other than a point of discussion. UNDERSTAND THAT... I don't think that I should be chastized for that though--discussing. I will say that if I offended you because I intended to "inflame" (which I did in part to kick a discussion off), sorry for the Jerry Springer like start--I apologize--I meant no REAL beef, just simply to start a discussion that is on both black and white folks minds. The strong response within American society (and Souls Strut Society) makes me think that we have some issues to work through as far as inter-racial relations are concerned.
But seriously, Y'all don't approve of my Promo picture then, right?
Yeah, that shit makes me cringe--hopefully it will die in your mind sometime soon DREWN...otherwise fuckit--you can do your thing and I can do mine.
Peace
Gnat
*sigh* Oh you done fucked up now...........
PAGING 3RDSTREAM!
Weak.
There's really no need for a "discussion" on this point and there really are no "issues to work through".
It's not a multifaceted issue like that.
holy moley! i mean, salary diz is much more serious than dizzy bull. like, i'll drink soju with dizzy bull, but something tells me salary diz would opt for some earl grey with a spot of milk.
diz, you are a complex multifaceted dude.
anyways, i hate to bring it up, cuz i know how some folks like to get all riled up about their white girls, but that big boobed blonde chick had a different angle on the whole thing one day.
so as usual, im watching BET on my lunch break. and she's all "i just dont get them. they always have b-words [hey, her words not mine] and hoes in their videos and they use the n word and i hate that." now, she was kinda asking it as a question, but not really as a question. more as a statement. a stance on where she stood on african american culture. she doesnt like it and she doesnt get it. all indignant like. like everything in this world is supposed to be digestible to her. and so im like "you know, i dont think they had you in mind when "they" make the music."
and this is the other side to that. sure, there are people that want to be "down" or whatevers, but there is also a large population of white folks that want nothing to do with african american culture and are disgruntled and/or offended because the culture is not presenting itself at all to them, yet has permeated the mainstream consciousness. now, both are annoying if you ask me. but at least one of these sub groups is attempting to understand it, as half-assed as it may be.
just my observations here. but in the end, i still love you guys!
imma put it like eazy e said it 15 years ago to the day...
"nigga say nigga we cool, but/ cracka say nigga better nut the f*ck up!"
What about when nigga say cracka?
sorry I am late i was eating a cookie
Could you be more condescending? If you have read a decent portion of the posts on this board, you would know that tripledouble makes more than his fair share of thoughtful, well reasoned posts.
I can tell you that your initial post and it's follow up did nothing to provoke any "much needed discussion". I think most folks on here are well aware of what is associated with this word. What type of discussion were you hoping to provoke? What about the history and usage of this word and all the terrible things that go along with that is still unresolved? Please tell me.
As an educator (albeit one with poor writing skills) I am sure you have thought about these things, so please enlighten us.
I've heard that explanation before (I think in that same Chris Rock bit that Faux mentioned), but I still don't see why people would view that as a privilege. "Congratulations, you were born Black and now get to address people with what was once (and is still considered by many to be) the mother of all demeaning epithets."
If a Black person wants to "take that word back" and give it new meaning, that is his or her prerogative. However, a white person "taking it back" would imply ill-natured intent, making it less of a matter of privilege and more a matter of abuse.
Reminds me of Samuel L. Jackson's character in Die Hard With A Vengance: "'Bro'?!?! Dammit, motherfucker! get off the Goddamn phone!" haha I always use "bro" when talking to anybody. I think I might of had one slip when I talked to you. Whoops!
Bro is definitely a socal word. like surfers and stuff. I actually kinda hate being called bro also, albeit probably not for the same reasons.
thanks for the lesson in race politics dude! i was completly lost until you turned on the light for me! god bless soulstrut and god bless you dear sir!
that makes me sick.
This thread is a worthless piece of shit. It is not necessary that white people have a "dailogue" about this word.
If you're attitude and mentality on here is any indication of how you are in the "real world" I would'nt want you anywhere near my kids.
You're a condescending prick, and if anybody was struggling to put their finger on the reason why before, I don't think they'll continue to have that problem after this series of posts.
Your post has not, as you say, "polarize[d] several well meaning people into heated camps". As far as I can tell the "camps" consist of: 1) you, and 2) the people you've managed to annoy. And I'm really not sure how well-meaning you are.
There also seems to be separate camps of 1)Those who like Spike Lee movies and 2) Those who don't. That seemed to take up about 2 pages of these posts.
What better chance to flex my "socially consious white guy" muscles?!?!
Too be honest, I feel like this about A LOT of posts.
Herm
Oh yeah... how could I forget about those additional camps of well-meaning people?
I love how so many white people love to act like racism is a thing of the past, yet cry foul when they need to be informed that the word is out of bounds for them[/b]. It just is, stupid. And if you have[/b] to quote someone one using it, yes, you better act like it makes you uncomfortable, becuz it SHOULD make you uncomfortable. jesus, why is this so hard for people?
agreed. My initial reading of the first post was that it was written by someone who already uses the word and was looking for some sort of positive reinforcement.
Like, "Oh, well, you're obviously conscious of the issues attendant in the utterance so go right ahead and continue using it"
Here's aword that you can use that shouldn't rub anyone wrong-
family[/b]
It's respectful and works on may levels. Try it out.
by the way on the whiteboy with doo-rags thing, I never wore a doo-rag but think that some whiteboys can do it as long as they don't try to make a fashion statement out of it...some of us sprout Jewfros if we don't relax our curls
guzzo... switch over to the alhambra folkways thread and bail this shit... it's much more fun with folkways.