i dislike lynching. even if it's of the metaphorical variety.
I mean, if the song was entitled "Ya'll should get the gas chamber" I wonder what Guzzo would say about that. One could, of course, use the Holocaust as a metaphorical device but whether one SHOULD is a different question. I don't equate Jim Crow-era lynching as being on the same level of the Holocaust but both are terrible, horrific remnants of history that should be tread upon lightly as rhetorical devices.
Oh snap, did I just extend this another 5 pages?
I don't think it would be a big deal if this song was called "Ya'll should get the gas chamber". I don't think dying in a gas chamber is exclusive to the Jewish experience. Would this song be anymore appetizing or less bizzare if it was called "Ya'll should die in a horrible car accident" or "Ya'll should die of famine"? Death is death. Its means are of little consequence. Its the final result that gives it its weight.
isn't advocating violence (in this case lynching) against people whose views you do not agree with at least as bad as advocating drug sales, if not worse?
drugs and violence are not the same thing.
The black panthers adovcated potentially violent means to make change.
isn't advocating violence (in this case lynching) against people whose views you do not agree with at least as bad as advocating drug sales, if not worse?
he is not glorifying lynching, there is a bit of a difference, just as there is a difference between glorifying drug trade and using it to make a point. Just sayin.
what i find more interesting is that alot of people on this board were more than willing to try and work to read into Clipse's crack metaphors and absolutely refuse to read into the metaphors in this song.
isn't advocating violence (in this case lynching) against people whose views you do not agree with at least as bad as advocating drug sales, if not worse?
he is not glorifying lynching, there is a bit of a difference, just as there is a difference between glorifying drug trade and using it to make a point. Just sayin.
what i find more interesting is that alot of people on this board were more than willing to try and work to read into Clipse's crack metaphors and absolutely refuse to read into the metaphors in this song.
glorifying or simply rapping about it is about the same thing to me. and if you peeped the interview given by the rapper, he says that he actually indeed advocates lynching the people he referred to in the song. what are the 'plex 'phors behind that one?
isn't advocating violence (in this case lynching) against people whose views you do not agree with at least as bad as advocating drug sales, if not worse?
he is not glorifying lynching, there is a bit of a difference, just as there is a difference between glorifying drug trade and using it to make a point. Just sayin.
what i find more interesting is that alot of people on this board were more than willing to try and work to read into Clipse's crack metaphors and absolutely refuse to read into the metaphors in this song.
glorifying or simply rapping about it is about the same thing to me. and if you peeped the interview given by the rapper, he says that he actually indeed advocates lynching the people he referred to in the song. what are the 'plex 'phors behind that one?
Wow i can't believe you just typed that? The same? So Young Jeezy and say the Last Poets are the same? C'mon GTFOHWTBS. The deliver and intention which come through in any track will make the difference clear.
I never said this guys "phors" were "plex" I was saying that the amount of energy that went to deciphering or trying to decipher crack metaphors from the clipse was amazing (especially since 99% of what they said was recycled) and it really amazed me that those same people wouldn't read even the least bit into this cat's intention. Its weird to me.
I don't agree with his assessment of violence against those rappers, but I can at least understand his frustration and understand that he does represent a segment that is not being represented very well in the current urban music climate.
Plus, in "No Vaseline," widely regarded as one of the best dis tracks ever recorded, Ice Cube says that if Dre, Yella, and Ren were as smart as he is, they would lynch Eazy E.
Now all we need is a 34 year old white guy from the northwest to give his opinion on it!
Here I am sorry I haven't been around all day. Only fifteen pages I figured this thread would be up to 50 by now. I've got no opinion on this issue, it's not my problem. I hope you all get it solved. Ciao!
Basically: I'm with everything that O-Dub said so far, and if you disagree with him, I think you should carefully re-read his posts and think about that shit.
Also: I'm with Noz, too. I bet Bill O'Riely would NYOils call for the advancement of the black community through killing gangster rappers. "All you bullshit MCs: Yall are on notice"
Again, just to note, who were the people most turned on by Public Enemy? It wasn't exactly poor people in inner cities. It was largely educated, middle class, non-Black folks. They had cultural critics (hardly the bastion of the urban lumpenproletariat) goin' nuts. Weren't they, in fact, "the power" that PE was trying to fight? Yup. But what sold them on P.E. was the rawness of their sound and attitude - message was immaterial (until it got anti-Semitic but that's a whole different ball of wax). What P.E. sold, what Ice Cube sold, was "realness". They just did it with a Nat Turner lick instead of rehashing Jim Crow (leave that to Jibbs though) but loud, powerful Black men have always been a fascination in our culture for the exact reason so-called "coon rappers" have been.
Let me just reiterate a previous point from another post: if you want to improve society, don't start with the culture industry. It's not where the revolution is ever going to start, let alone gain traction.
On point, but as 33third brings up, you have to take into consideration an artist's intention. When you bring up Public Enemy "selling realness", and that "loud, powerful Black men have always been a fascination in our culture", you have to make the distinction that artists like Public Enemy were trying to get a message across. Sure, Public Enemy's album was bought by tons of white people who didn't give a rat's ass what they said and were "fascinated by loud powerful Black men", but artists can only control their music and their words, not who they influence.
Wow i can't believe you just typed that? The same? So Young Jeezy and say the Last Poets are the same? C'mon GTFOHWTBS. The deliver and intention which come through in any track will make the difference clear.
did i say young jeezy and the last poets were the same? i do not agree with violence as a solution for things. im saying, advocating lynching (a very violent way to kill someone) is at least as bad as advocating selling drugs. don't give me that "oh hes trying to spark a revolution himself" because even if all the rappers who he despises disappeared, there would still be a million others to take their place spouting the same shit. the rappers are not to be blamed for any of this.
another point is, the kids who you people say are influenced by music to the point of mimicing it. if these kids are unable to see that young jeezy talking about selling drugs is bad, how do you think they will be able to see it with lynching in regards to this song? shit goes both ways
I never said this guys "phors" were "plex" I was saying that the amount of energy that went to deciphering or trying to decipher crack metaphors from the clipse was amazing (especially since 99% of what they said was recycled) and it really amazed me that those same people wouldn't read even the least bit into this cat's intention. Its weird to me.
i think it's pretty clear as to what his intentions were and the interview made them even more clear. i don't usually go into a deep analysis on things that are clear to me but maybe i should
I don't agree with his assessment of violence against those rappers, but I can at least understand his frustration and understand that he does represent a segment that is not being represented very well in the current urban music climate.
i agree with this completely. however, his frustration is very misdirected. the rappers he complains about are merely doing what sells, what provides them with a living. the labels are really to blame for pushing this.
I don't agree with his assessment of violence against those rappers, but I can at least understand his frustration and understand that he does represent a segment that is not being represented very well in the current urban music climate.
i agree with this completely. however, his frustration is very misdirected. the rappers he complains about are merely doing what sells, what provides them with a living. the labels are really to blame for pushing this.
wait - you buy it (I buy it).. abstracts like "labels" and the "system" and so forth are convenient if we want to do away with the unpopular notion of personal responsibility.
I'm guilty of perpetuating some of this stuff. I'm conflicted. Are you?
I don't agree with his assessment of violence against those rappers, but I can at least understand his frustration and understand that he does represent a segment that is not being represented very well in the current urban music climate.
i agree with this completely. however, his frustration is very misdirected. the rappers he complains about are merely doing what sells, what provides them with a living. the labels are really to blame for pushing this. [/b] are you saying that rappers shouldn't be held responsible for the words they say?
Also: I'm with Noz, too. I bet Bill O'Riely would NYOils call for the advancement of the black community through killing gangster rappers. "All you bullshit MCs: Yall are on notice"
too simplistic.. but allow me to do the same: Republicans with their War on Drugs and Family Values and so forth thrive off the image of black men as a dangerous and violent threat.
This is reinforced by one-dimensional portraits of black america via commercial rap / TV / the news, etc.. Rappers are milking the market for what it's worth, using imagery that they know is proven to sell.. opting for personal wealth over messages that advocate healthy communities - communities that are already at high risk.
This upholds the status quo. If it's good for you, then don't worry about it. My small community (family, friends) is relatively healthy, and it's easy for me to not give a concern about challenging others' racist attitudes... and those with strong racist attitudes don't seem very concerned either.
wait - you buy it (I buy it).. abstracts like "labels" and the "system" and so forth are convenient if we want to do away with the unpopular notion of personal responsibility.
I'm guilty of perpetuating some of this stuff. I'm conflicted. Are you?
i'm not conflicted at all. i was merely presenting a more feasible solution to his problem which i do not see as a problem myself. personal responsibility lays solely at the hands of the parents as far as their children goes and if you want to, we can get into external factors that directly and indirectly prevent parents from raising their children properly in order to resist the evil rap music but i think that's better reserved for another thread.
are you saying that rappers shouldn't be held responsible for the words they say?
if someone can point me in the direction an incident where a rapper is directly responsible for something negative as far as youth corruption goes, i'm all ears. until then, i don't think it's very fair to blame ANY incident on ANY sort of musician because in all likelihood, there are several other factors that take precedent over the evil influence of rap music.
This is reinforced by one-dimensional portraits of black america via commercial rap / TV / the news, etc.. Rappers are milking the market for what it's worth, using imagery that they know is proven to sell.. opting for personal wealth over messages that advocate healthy communities - communities that are already at high risk.
This is exactly what I am pointing towards. The media has been pushing this depiction of young Black men as dangerous street thugs and Black women as whores since before rap music. Blaming this poor depiction of the Black community on gangster rappers is unproductive and shortsighted.
Check out S. Craig Watkins "Black Youth and the Ironies of Capitalism" for a interesting discussion of the interaction between rappers, the media, and the status quo.
rappers shouldn't be held responsible for the words they say?
"Freedom of Speech"
[Intro]
A-yo Ice, man. I'm working on this term paper for college. What's the First Amendment?
[Verse 1]
Freedom of Speech, that's some motherfuckin' bullshit You say the wrong thing, they'll lock your ass up quick The FCC says "Profanity - No Airplay"? They can suck my dick while I take a shit all day Think I give a fuck about some silly bitch named Gore? Yo PMRC, here we go, raw Yo Tip, what's the matter? You ain't gettin' no dick? You're bitchin' about rock'n'roll, that's censorship, dumb bitch The Constitution says we all got a right to speak Say what we want Tip, your argument is weak Censor records, TV, school books too And who decides what's right to hear? You? Hey PMRC, you stupid fuckin' assholes The sticker on the record is what makes 'em sell gold Can't you see, you alcoholic idiots The more you try to suppress us, the larger we get
[Verse 2]
[You have the right to remain silent] Fuck that right! I want the right to talk I want the right to speak, I want the right to walk Where I wanna, yell and I'm gonna Tell and rebel every time I'm on a Microphone on the stage cold illin' The knowledge I drop will be heard by millions We ain't the problems, we ain't the villains It's the suckers deprivin' the truth from our children You can't hide the fact, Jack There's violence in the streets every day, any fool can recognise that But you try to lie and lie And say America's some motherfuckin' apple pie Yo, you gotta be high to believe that You're gonna change the world by a sticker on a record sleeve Cos once you take away my right to speak Everybody in the world's up shit creek
[Verse 3]
Let me tell you about down south Where a motherfucker might as well not even have a mouth Columbus, Georgia, said they'd lock me up If I got on the stage in my show and said "Fuck" So I thought for a minute and said "No, I wasn't even gonna do a damned show" Cos for me to change my words from my rhymes Is never gonna happen cos there's no sell outs on mine But I vowed to get those motherfuckers one day They even arrested Bobby Brown and Cool J Yo, they got their's comin', cos I'm mad and I'm gunnin' Homeboys, and there's no runnin' I'm gonna tell you how I feel about you No bull, no lies, no slack, just straight fact Columbus, Georgia, you can suck my dick You ain't nothin' but a piece of fuckin' shit on the damned map
[Verse 4]
Freedom of Speech, let 'em take it from me Next they'll take it from you, then what you gonna do? Let 'em censor books, let 'em censor art PMRC, this is where the witch hunt starts You'll censor what we see, we read, we hear, we learn The books will burn You better think it out We should be able to say anything, our lungs were meant to shout Say what we feel, yell out what's real Even though it may not bring mass appeal Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine If you don't like what I'm sayin'? Fine But don't close it, always keep an open mind A man who fails to listen is blind We only got one right left in the world today Let me have it or throw The Constitution away
[Outro (Jello Biafra)]
What they're trying to do with radio, with this, uh, McCarron-Walter Act and a lot of other ways, is start by saying that they're protecting the public from wicked rock bands, or girlie magazines, or whatever. But, if you follow the chain of dominoes that falls down, what they're really trying to do is shut off our access to information itself.
If they can't do it by law they know there's other ways to do it.
Here's my thing: the entire industry and tradition of American popular culture is based on the minstrel show. Look at the formation of both American popular song in the 1800s as well as the birth of American cinema, not to mention theater. It ALL goes back to minstrelsy.
Are you talking specifically about black music?
Even if you are, I disagree entirely.
Mike,
I probably overstated this is an attempt at making a larger point:
The American popular culture INDUSTRY - meaning the structured way through which American business has made money off of popular culture - traces its roots to the minstrel show era. The first truly American popular songs (vs. those imported/adapted from Europe) were mostly minstrel show songs - the fledging sheet music trade which eventually would develop into the recording music industry was built off of minstrel show songs. Even after the formal minstrel show era had ended, if you look at ragtime and the formation of Tin Pan Alley and the early 20th century pop songs that built the nascent recording music industry (and later early radio), the links and nods back to minstrelsy are explicit. Al Jolson is merely the tip of the iceberg.
It goes without saying that American theater (again, as a unique creation on these shores) owes its roots to the minstrel shows. Likewise, vaudeville grew directly out of that same tradition and then vaudeville gave way to film.
The two most important works of early American cinema - movies that Hollywood was built around - were D.W. Griffith's "Birth of a Nation and Al Jolson's "The Jazz Singer." The fact that the former included both Blackface white actors and jaw-dropping cooning by African American actors and that the latter was a thinly veiled autobiographical tale about the greatest Blackface vaudeville singer of his era (complete with songs performed, for the first time in synched-sound, out of minstrel traditions) is not a coincidence. If anything, it simply reflected and acknowledged how central minstrelsy was to the development of American popular culture even as the very notion of that was being revolutionized by electronic media (i.e. film and radio).
Ergo, the modern American culture industry has its roots in the minstrel show tradition.
Beyond that, I'd also argue that a lot of what fuels people's CROSSOVER interest in American pop culture forms (i.e. what non-Black people find so fascinating with Black culture) is precisely the same kind of fascination that people had with Blackness in the 19th century - it's a love/dread/fear/lust relationship with the Other. I don't mean to get too theoretical here: my point is that the structural and historical ways that Black and White have been kept segregated - if not literally than at least culturally - has precisely fueled a sense of mystery that non-Blacks - especially Whites - have with Blackness. They wanted to know what it is that they were supposed to avoid, even hate yet that very act of social/structural segregation also created the very fascination that drove the popularity of the minstrel shows.
Original minstrel culture flourished in northern cities because urban Whites had a fascination with the *idea* (vs. the reality) of what rural Southern Black life was like. It was something both exotic (b/c it was felt so distant from their racial and geographic identities) yet familiar (b/c they were part of the American social fabric).
I don't think that fascination has really changed dramatically over the last 150 years. Certainly, the social/cultural/structural legacies of segregation are still alive and with us today even if not quite as explicit (though possibly still as virulent) as they were in Jim Crow days. Whites and Blacks are more likely to live apart today then they were 40 years ago. We have this fiction that things are more integrated though...why? VOILA! Through popular culture and media. Blackness is more ever-present in our daily life than it ever has been yet ironically, Blacks themselves have been pushed into increasingly marginalized spaces (literally and figuratively) since the 1960s.
In other words, the structural conditions under which minstrelsy originally flourished have transformed in some major ways, but not in others. Nor have race relations improved to such a degree where Blacks and Whites can really say they "know" each other as communities (despite individual exceptions). The lure of The Other has hardly abated either (especially given the "distance" between Blacks and Whites today). I didn't even touch on this but LOOK AT VIDEO GAMES. I mean, holy shit - talk about Blackface in modern form. Next level indeed.
Going back to Mike's original point though - is EVERY example of American pop culture a remnant of minstrelsy? Perhaps not but I have a hard time thinking of too many examples of American pop culture that don't, in some key way, trace their way back to the legacy of minstrelsy.
A TOTAL ASIDE BUT: I was re-reading Henry Ford's infamous anti-Semitic screed against jazz music as as Jewish conspiracy and listen to how he describes jazz:
"Monkey talk, jungle squeals, grunts and squeaks and gasps suggestive of calf love are camouflaged by a few feverish notes and admitted in homes where the thing itself, unaided by scanned music, would be stamped out in horror. The fluttering music sheets disclose expressions taken directly from the cesspools of modern capitals, to be made the daily slang, the thoughtlessly hummed remarks of school boys and girls."
Seriously, how different does this critique read from what people say about hip-hop today?
I'm not suggesting that hip-hop is above criticism - oh no no no - but I think it's worth considering that these debates aren't new or unique to hip-hop either.
are you saying that rappers shouldn't be held responsible for the words they say?
I don't think we should hinder art in such a way. It's a frightening prospect. If I undrstand the question.
I asked it in response to this:
his frustration is very misdirected. the rappers he complains about are merely doing what sells, what provides them with a living. the labels are really to blame for pushing this.
are you saying that rappers shouldn't be held responsible for the words they say?
I don't think we should hinder art in such a way. It's a frightening prospect. If I undrstand the question.
I asked it in response to this:
his frustration is very misdirected. the rappers he complains about are merely doing what sells, what provides them with a living. the labels are really to blame for pushing this.
Oh. Too many puffs off this mango smoke, mayne. If we lived in a world where "crack rap" was illegal, then artist and label would be responsible. Unless they were on a label like D**th R*w. Then an artist might have an argument for coersion.
I blame consumers. Stop smokin' rock, and the dealer will dissapear. Oh wait, this is music.
I blame consumers. Stop smokin' rock, and the dealer will dissapear. Oh wait, this is music.
I hear what you're saying but this is also presuming that the playing field for what consumers can choose from is equal.
Yuup, think about the fact that places like Walmart, Best Buy, Target, etc. sell most of the music that American consumers buy. Many places across the country don't have an independent music store, much less a place like Amoeba that's got everything under the sun. Sure, the internet has opened up a wealth of music, but if you don't know what to look for, it's not too helpful.
You can't put the blame on one group for any of these issues. They're widespread, systematic, institutionalized problems that can't be fixed by any one solution or effort. I guess my only point is that every little bit helps in trying to solve the problem, from Kanye on TV to the kid trying to spread more lyrically concious hip-hop amongst his friends.
Is there a record for the longest SoulStrut thread?
I blame consumers. Stop smokin' rock, and the dealer will dissapear. Oh wait, this is music.
I hear what you're saying but this is also presuming that the playing field for what consumers can choose from is equal.
Yes, that is a factor. Good point. Now what was this rediculously hypathetical, Orwellian situation again? I'm confused. I'll fall back. Oh, wait. I get it. Great point.
Funny stuff, but I was thinking more along the lines of that one SNL skit with the "Imma get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see" song. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I couldn't find it on Youtube.
Comments
I don't think it would be a big deal if this song was called "Ya'll should get the gas chamber". I don't think dying in a gas chamber is exclusive to the Jewish experience. Would this song be anymore appetizing or less bizzare if it was called "Ya'll should die in a horrible car accident" or "Ya'll should die of famine"? Death is death. Its means are of little consequence. Its the final result that gives it its weight.
drugs and violence are not the same thing.
The black panthers adovcated potentially violent means to make change.
They did not advocate crack sales
apples and oranges
he is not glorifying lynching, there is a bit of a difference, just as there is a difference between glorifying drug trade and using it to make a point. Just sayin.
what i find more interesting is that alot of people on this board were more than willing to try and work to read into Clipse's crack metaphors and absolutely refuse to read into the metaphors in this song.
So you're okay with the glorification of crack-selling?
Wow i can't believe you just typed that? The same? So Young Jeezy and say the Last Poets are the same? C'mon GTFOHWTBS. The deliver and intention which come through in any track will make the difference clear.
I never said this guys "phors" were "plex" I was saying that the amount of energy that went to deciphering or trying to decipher crack metaphors from the clipse was amazing (especially since 99% of what they said was recycled) and it really amazed me that those same people wouldn't read even the least bit into this cat's intention. Its weird to me.
I don't agree with his assessment of violence against those rappers, but I can at least understand his frustration and understand that he does represent a segment that is not being represented very well in the current urban music climate.
Plus, in "No Vaseline," widely regarded as one of the best dis tracks ever recorded, Ice Cube says that if Dre, Yella, and Ren were as smart as he is, they would lynch Eazy E.
I'm just sayin'.
Here I am sorry I haven't been around all day.
Only fifteen pages I figured this thread would be
up to 50 by now.
I've got no opinion on this issue, it's not my problem.
I hope you all get it solved.
Ciao!
Also: I'm with Noz, too. I bet Bill O'Riely would
On point, but as 33third brings up, you have to take into consideration an artist's intention. When you bring up Public Enemy "selling realness", and that "loud, powerful Black men have always been a fascination in our culture", you have to make the distinction that artists like Public Enemy were trying to get a message across. Sure, Public Enemy's album was bought by tons of white people who didn't give a rat's ass what they said and were "fascinated by loud powerful Black men", but artists can only control their music and their words, not who they influence.
:5pager: x3 +?
another point is, the kids who you people say are influenced by music to the point of mimicing it. if these kids are unable to see that young jeezy talking about selling drugs is bad, how do you think they will be able to see it with lynching in regards to this song? shit goes both ways
i think it's pretty clear as to what his intentions were and the interview made them even more clear. i don't usually go into a deep analysis on things that are clear to me but maybe i should
i agree with this completely. however, his frustration is very misdirected. the rappers he complains about are merely doing what sells, what provides them with a living. the labels are really to blame for pushing this.
wait - you buy it (I buy it).. abstracts like "labels" and the "system" and so forth are convenient if we want to do away with the unpopular notion of personal responsibility.
I'm guilty of perpetuating some of this stuff. I'm conflicted. Are you?
are you saying that rappers shouldn't be held responsible for the words they say?
too simplistic.. but allow me to do the same: Republicans with their War on Drugs and Family Values and so forth thrive off the image of black men as a dangerous and violent threat.
This is reinforced by one-dimensional portraits of black america via commercial rap / TV / the news, etc.. Rappers are milking the market for what it's worth, using imagery that they know is proven to sell.. opting for personal wealth over messages that advocate healthy communities - communities that are already at high risk.
This upholds the status quo. If it's good for you, then don't worry about it. My small community (family, friends) is relatively healthy, and it's easy for me to not give a concern about challenging others' racist attitudes... and those with strong racist attitudes don't seem very concerned either.
This is exactly what I am pointing towards. The media has been pushing this depiction of young Black men as dangerous street thugs and Black women as whores since before rap music. Blaming this poor depiction of the Black community on gangster rappers is unproductive and shortsighted.
Check out S. Craig Watkins "Black Youth and the Ironies of Capitalism" for a interesting discussion of the interaction between rappers, the media, and the status quo.
"Freedom of Speech"
[Intro]
A-yo Ice, man. I'm working on this term paper for college. What's the
First Amendment?
[Verse 1]
Freedom of Speech, that's some motherfuckin' bullshit
You say the wrong thing, they'll lock your ass up quick
The FCC says "Profanity - No Airplay"?
They can suck my dick while I take a shit all day
Think I give a fuck about some silly bitch named Gore?
Yo PMRC, here we go, raw
Yo Tip, what's the matter? You ain't gettin' no dick?
You're bitchin' about rock'n'roll, that's censorship, dumb bitch
The Constitution says we all got a right to speak
Say what we want Tip, your argument is weak
Censor records, TV, school books too
And who decides what's right to hear? You?
Hey PMRC, you stupid fuckin' assholes
The sticker on the record is what makes 'em sell gold
Can't you see, you alcoholic idiots
The more you try to suppress us, the larger we get
[Verse 2]
[You have the right to remain silent]
Fuck that right! I want the right to talk
I want the right to speak, I want the right to walk
Where I wanna, yell and I'm gonna
Tell and rebel every time I'm on a
Microphone on the stage cold illin'
The knowledge I drop will be heard by millions
We ain't the problems, we ain't the villains
It's the suckers deprivin' the truth from our children
You can't hide the fact, Jack
There's violence in the streets every day, any fool can recognise that
But you try to lie and lie
And say America's some motherfuckin' apple pie
Yo, you gotta be high to believe that
You're gonna change the world by a sticker on a record sleeve
Cos once you take away my right to speak
Everybody in the world's up shit creek
[Verse 3]
Let me tell you about down south
Where a motherfucker might as well not even have a mouth
Columbus, Georgia, said they'd lock me up
If I got on the stage in my show and said "Fuck"
So I thought for a minute and said "No,
I wasn't even gonna do a damned show"
Cos for me to change my words from my rhymes
Is never gonna happen cos there's no sell outs on mine
But I vowed to get those motherfuckers one day
They even arrested Bobby Brown and Cool J
Yo, they got their's comin', cos I'm mad and I'm gunnin'
Homeboys, and there's no runnin'
I'm gonna tell you how I feel about you
No bull, no lies, no slack, just straight fact
Columbus, Georgia, you can suck my dick
You ain't nothin' but a piece of fuckin' shit on the damned map
[Verse 4]
Freedom of Speech, let 'em take it from me
Next they'll take it from you, then what you gonna do?
Let 'em censor books, let 'em censor art
PMRC, this is where the witch hunt starts
You'll censor what we see, we read, we hear, we learn
The books will burn
You better think it out
We should be able to say anything, our lungs were meant to shout
Say what we feel, yell out what's real
Even though it may not bring mass appeal
Your opinion is yours, my opinion is mine
If you don't like what I'm sayin'? Fine
But don't close it, always keep an open mind
A man who fails to listen is blind
We only got one right left in the world today
Let me have it or throw The Constitution away
[Outro (Jello Biafra)]
What they're trying to do with radio, with this, uh, McCarron-Walter
Act and a lot of other ways, is start by saying that they're
protecting the public from wicked rock bands, or girlie magazines, or
whatever. But, if you follow the chain of dominoes that falls down,
what they're really trying to do is shut off our access to information
itself.
If they can't do it by law they know there's other ways to do it.
I don't think we should hinder art in such a way. It's a frightening prospect. If I undrstand the question.
Mike,
I probably overstated this is an attempt at making a larger point:
The American popular culture INDUSTRY - meaning the structured way through which American business has made money off of popular culture - traces its roots to the minstrel show era. The first truly American popular songs (vs. those imported/adapted from Europe) were mostly minstrel show songs - the fledging sheet music trade which eventually would develop into the recording music industry was built off of minstrel show songs. Even after the formal minstrel show era had ended, if you look at ragtime and the formation of Tin Pan Alley and the early 20th century pop songs that built the nascent recording music industry (and later early radio), the links and nods back to minstrelsy are explicit. Al Jolson is merely the tip of the iceberg.
It goes without saying that American theater (again, as a unique creation on these shores) owes its roots to the minstrel shows. Likewise, vaudeville grew directly out of that same tradition and then vaudeville gave way to film.
The two most important works of early American cinema - movies that Hollywood was built around - were D.W. Griffith's "Birth of a Nation and Al Jolson's "The Jazz Singer." The fact that the former included both Blackface white actors and jaw-dropping cooning by African American actors and that the latter was a thinly veiled autobiographical tale about the greatest Blackface vaudeville singer of his era (complete with songs performed, for the first time in synched-sound, out of minstrel traditions) is not a coincidence. If anything, it simply reflected and acknowledged how central minstrelsy was to the development of American popular culture even as the very notion of that was being revolutionized by electronic media (i.e. film and radio).
Ergo, the modern American culture industry has its roots in the minstrel show tradition.
Beyond that, I'd also argue that a lot of what fuels people's CROSSOVER interest in American pop culture forms (i.e. what non-Black people find so fascinating with Black culture) is precisely the same kind of fascination that people had with Blackness in the 19th century - it's a love/dread/fear/lust relationship with the Other. I don't mean to get too theoretical here: my point is that the structural and historical ways that Black and White have been kept segregated - if not literally than at least culturally - has precisely fueled a sense of mystery that non-Blacks - especially Whites - have with Blackness. They wanted to know what it is that they were supposed to avoid, even hate yet that very act of social/structural segregation also created the very fascination that drove the popularity of the minstrel shows.
Original minstrel culture flourished in northern cities because urban Whites had a fascination with the *idea* (vs. the reality) of what rural Southern Black life was like. It was something both exotic (b/c it was felt so distant from their racial and geographic identities) yet familiar (b/c they were part of the American social fabric).
I don't think that fascination has really changed dramatically over the last 150 years. Certainly, the social/cultural/structural legacies of segregation are still alive and with us today even if not quite as explicit (though possibly still as virulent) as they were in Jim Crow days. Whites and Blacks are more likely to live apart today then they were 40 years ago. We have this fiction that things are more integrated though...why? VOILA! Through popular culture and media. Blackness is more ever-present in our daily life than it ever has been yet ironically, Blacks themselves have been pushed into increasingly marginalized spaces (literally and figuratively) since the 1960s.
In other words, the structural conditions under which minstrelsy originally flourished have transformed in some major ways, but not in others. Nor have race relations improved to such a degree where Blacks and Whites can really say they "know" each other as communities (despite individual exceptions). The lure of The Other has hardly abated either (especially given the "distance" between Blacks and Whites today). I didn't even touch on this but LOOK AT VIDEO GAMES. I mean, holy shit - talk about Blackface in modern form. Next level indeed.
Going back to Mike's original point though - is EVERY example of American pop culture a remnant of minstrelsy? Perhaps not but I have a hard time thinking of too many examples of American pop culture that don't, in some key way, trace their way back to the legacy of minstrelsy.
A TOTAL ASIDE BUT: I was re-reading Henry Ford's infamous anti-Semitic screed against jazz music as as Jewish conspiracy and listen to how he describes jazz:
"Monkey talk, jungle squeals, grunts and squeaks and gasps suggestive of calf love are camouflaged by a few feverish notes and admitted in homes where the thing itself, unaided by scanned music, would be stamped out in horror. The fluttering music sheets disclose expressions taken directly from the cesspools of modern capitals, to be made the daily slang, the thoughtlessly hummed remarks of school boys and girls."
Seriously, how different does this critique read from what people say about hip-hop today?
I'm not suggesting that hip-hop is above criticism - oh no no no - but I think it's worth considering that these debates aren't new or unique to hip-hop either.
I asked it in response to this:
Not to sound too cold here but there is one way in which rappers are held responsible all the time: on the sales chart.
By the way, while we're on that note: can anyone tell me what numbers "Chicken Noodle Soup" actually did?
Oh. Too many puffs off this mango smoke, mayne. If we lived in a world where "crack rap" was illegal, then artist and label would be responsible. Unless they were on a label like D**th R*w. Then an artist might have an argument for coersion.
I blame consumers. Stop smokin' rock, and the dealer will dissapear. Oh wait, this is music.
I hear what you're saying but this is also presuming that the playing field for what consumers can choose from is equal.
Yuup, think about the fact that places like Walmart, Best Buy, Target, etc. sell most of the music that American consumers buy. Many places across the country don't have an independent music store, much less a place like Amoeba that's got everything under the sun. Sure, the internet has opened up a wealth of music, but if you don't know what to look for, it's not too helpful.
You can't put the blame on one group for any of these issues. They're widespread, systematic, institutionalized problems that can't be fixed by any one solution or effort. I guess my only point is that every little bit helps in trying to solve the problem, from Kanye on TV to the kid trying to spread more lyrically concious hip-hop amongst his friends.
Is there a record for the longest SoulStrut thread?
Yes, that is a factor. Good point. Now what was this rediculously hypathetical, Orwellian situation again? I'm confused. I'll fall back. Oh, wait. I get it. Great point.
SOULUTION!!!
There is but this doesn't come anywhere CLOSE.
Funny stuff, but I was thinking more along the lines of that one SNL skit with the "Imma get me a shotgun and kill all the whiteys I see" song. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? I couldn't find it on Youtube.