So mormons should be rounded up and all put into a camp of some sorts? Is that the takeaway?
You are seriously not reading anything anybody writes. Find one quote that implies what you are saying.
Looks like somebody here is good at dishing out the straw arguments, but not so good at taking them.
Things Soulstrut does not know the definition of :
Bigot
Straw Argument
Please show me where I've made a straw argument. I have rebutted everyone specifically based on the facts of their statements. In fact resorting to calling me a bigot to not have to logically debate me is itself a straw argument.
I actually support people's rights to have more than one wife if they wish. As long as it's a consensual adult decision and not a religious leader marrying 16 year old girl to 30 year old men. The Mormon's claim they don't support polygamy but amazingly their are a ton of polygamists in Utah and their basically no prosecution of this so called crime. My daughter live next door to a polygamist family and a Mormon police officer lives across the street and does nothing. Their are entire city's of polygamists on the boarder with Arizona that flaunt what they do and no one stops them. So what the church "officially" says means nothing and they clearly control what does and doesn't get prosecuted since many of their flock are in law enforcement.
I fully support Mormon's rights to live and do as they please I just don't want them in power telling me what to do and making legal decisions based on their religious beliefs that affect my freedoms. Which they do in Utah all the time.
i wouldnt even know that romney was morman if people didnt constantly bring it up as a reason as to why hes unelectable. for as much as people here harp on about gay rights, i dont see anyone denouncing any of their favorite christian politicians
b/w
heard rubio speak for the first time today. wish he was running for president instead
Rubio is against gay marriage because "the bible says it is"...more legislative philosophy from a book written before people knew where the sun went at night. Yeah, he is a real leader. Sure it is just gay marriage, as it has been pointed out hete is "just a distraction", but using the bible as your only basis for a law is fucked up...
If your not concerned about right wing cult members being the president THEN thing like drones flying in US are space probably don't bother you either.
That is a textbook definition of a straw argument right there.
Here's some more straw arguments about a subject I never mentioned (including my non-existent "support" of Romney) :
volumen said:
It's bad enough all my tax dollars already go to bombs and bailouts. Oh but the fact that the bailout money went to high level bonuses doesn't matter because once we gave the banks the money they could do what ever they wanted with it. Yes, if you make excuses for Romey and/or support him you are supporting the crazy right wing shit he will allow.
In your mind, the fact that I don't share your hysterical fear of Mormonism means that I am, of course, down with any and all aspects of the evil right-wing agenda as you see it.
i wouldnt even know that romney was morman if people didnt constantly bring it up as a reason as to why hes unelectable. for as much as people here harp on about gay rights, i dont see anyone denouncing any of their favorite christian politicians
b/w
heard rubio speak for the first time today. wish he was running for president instead
Rubio is against gay marriage because "the bible says it is"...more legislative philosophy from a book written before people knew where the sun went at night. Yeah, he is a real leader. Sure it is just gay marriage, as it has been pointed out hete is "just a distraction", but using the bible as your only basis for a law is fucked up...
i wouldnt even know that romney was morman if people didnt constantly bring it up as a reason as to why hes unelectable. for as much as people here harp on about gay rights, i dont see anyone denouncing any of their favorite christian politicians
b/w
heard rubio speak for the first time today. wish he was running for president instead
Can't speak for anyone else, but my "favorite" Christian politicians are in favor of gay rights, so why would I denounce them? Being Christian does not mean being anti-gay. Not sure why you think it does. In fact, more likely, anti gay people use religion as a sword in order to advance their hate agenda. You know, guys like your boy Rubio.
1.7% of Americans are Mormons including that "good one" Harry Reid
Some very bad looks in this thread.
No disrespect, but one of the top bad looks is coming from you, Rock. You seem to think that being highly involved in a racist organization for 31 years is not a racist act. You seem to think that not denouncing said racist past of that organization is just fine.
Harry Reid isn't trying to force his relgious beliefs on you or me. Romney is. Not sure why this a hard concept for you to get. Does Reid personally believe in abortion? Check his website if you really care and aren't just trying deflect the convo from the topic of the thread you started. Does he believe in Mark of Cain? He is a Mormon, so likely. But, we can look at a guy like Reid's legislative history as proof positve that he isn't trying to force that ish on us. We can look at Romney's words today as proof positive that given the chance, he will.
1.7% of Americans are Mormons including that "good one" Harry Reid
Some very bad looks in this thread.
No disrespect, but one of the top bad looks is coming from you, Rock. You seem to think that being highly involved in a racist organization for 31 years is not a racist act. You seem to think that not denouncing said racist past of that organization is just fine.
Harry Reid isn't trying to force his relgious beliefs on you or me. Romney is. Not sure why this a hard concept for you to get. Does Reid personally believe in abortion? Check his website if you really care and aren't just trying deflect the convo from the topic of the thread you started. Does he believe in Mark of Cain? He is a Mormon, so likely. But, we can look at a guy like Reid's legislative history as proof positve that he isn't trying to force that ish on us. We can look at Romney's words today as proof positive that given the chance, he will.
I know this concept very well..."Yeah, he's an asshole, but he's OUR asshole".
JP summed my feelings up very well earlier in the thread and his advice was on point.
i wouldnt even know that romney was morman if people didnt constantly bring it up as a reason as to why hes unelectable. for as much as people here harp on about gay rights, i dont see anyone denouncing any of their favorite christian politicians
b/w
heard rubio speak for the first time today. wish he was running for president instead
Can't speak for anyone else, but my "favorite" Christian politicians are in favor of gay rights, so why would I denounce them? Being Christian does not mean being anti-gay. Not sure why you think it does. In fact, more likely, anti gay people use religion as a sword in order to advance their hate agenda. You know, guys like your boy Rubio.
i wouldnt even know that romney was morman if people didnt constantly bring it up as a reason as to why hes unelectable. for as much as people here harp on about gay rights, i dont see anyone denouncing any of their favorite christian politicians
b/w
heard rubio speak for the first time today. wish he was running for president instead
Can't speak for anyone else, but my "favorite" Christian politicians are in favor of gay rights, so why would I denounce them? Being Christian does not mean being anti-gay. Not sure why you think it does. In fact, more likely, anti gay people use religion as a sword in order to advance their hate agenda. You know, guys like your boy Rubio.
I actually support people's rights to have more than one wife if they wish. As long as it's a consensual adult decision and not a religious leader marrying 16 year old girl to 30 year old men. The Mormon's claim they don't support polygamy but amazingly their are a ton of polygamists in Utah and their basically no prosecution of this so called crime. My daughter live next door to a polygamist family and a Mormon police officer lives across the street and does nothing. Their are entire city's of polygamists on the boarder with Arizona that flaunt what they do and no one stops them. So what the church "officially" says means nothing and they clearly control what does and doesn't get prosecuted since many of their flock are in law enforcement.
I fully support Mormon's rights to live and do as they please I just don't want them in power telling me what to do and making legal decisions based on their religious beliefs that affect my freedoms. Which they do in Utah all the time.
As I said, you are free to believe what you want.
Your knowledge of Mormon theology may have come from Mormons you know, but it might not be accurate.
Polygamy is not part of LDS theology.
Blacks have full sacramental rights in the LDS church and many Blacks are in the LDS church.
The fact that you know so many polygamist Mormons and Mormons who don't agree with the church on race demonstrates the range of beliefs among Mormons and the ability for individuals Mormons to hold views and live their lives contrary to Church teachings.
I had no idea that there was a Mormon police force. Thank you for the information.
Prosecution of polygamy is near impossible.
Unless there are multiple civil marriages there is no crime of polygamy.
Arizona, Texas and Utah all have prosecuted polygamist, mostly charging them with child welfare crimes.
I can understand it is a drag to live some place where drinking and gambling is restricted.
I can understand you not wanting a president who will legislate Mormon theology.
I can understand you not wanting Willard as President.
What I don't understand is why you think he will legislate Mormon theology.
Until he started running for president his views, and actions, in regards to gays and abortion were left of the Republican mainstream.
That they are now in step with the Republican mainstream has little to do with him being Mormon and everything to do with him being willing to do or say anything to win the election.
Sorry about all the above. I am going to drop it now. Believe what you want.
I started this reply because you repeatedly have asked me if I know any Mormons.
So for the last few days I have been thinking about Mormons I have known.
I think the first Mormon I met was while hitch hiking through Utah when I was about 19.
He was so happy to give a ride to a Jew. Mormons kinda see themselves as Jews. He gave me the a copy of the Book Of Mormon. Inside the Book Of Mormon is all the secret stuff they don't want anyone to know about them.
On my return trip, in Wyoming, a cop stopped me, took me to an isolated cafe, made me buy a Greyhound ticket.
I sat in that cafe about for about 5 hours reading the BoM, and listening to the other patrons talk.
It was there that I first heard the story of a cop car getting caught between 2 truckers.
The lead truck slowed down, the back truck sped up, and they crushed the cop car and left it on the highway.
Not long after that, again in Wyoming, I got a ride from a car full of teens.
It was early on a Sunday morning. They were tired and wasted, had been drinking all night.
They were on their way back to Utah, because as they explained, one girl needed to get home before church, and I suppose before her parents found out she was not in bed.
The others were Jack Mormons and didn't go to church.
About the same time, in Okmulgee Oklahoma where I was living, I met a Mormon guy and became friends with him.
When I left Okmulgee I spent a little time in Vernal with him. Great guy.
I just tracked him down and wrote to him telling him about our online discussion.
That was all way back in the 1970s.
Since then I have known many Mormons.
Most of them have been involved in charities I was involved with.
I used to work every weekend in the Meals on Wheels central kitchen.
Some of the employees there were Mormons, but I didn't have much contact with them.
I did have a lot of contact with the volunteers.
For a long time we had a revolving cast of "Mormon Boys". Missionaries.
They were all great volunteers.
We had these huge oven mitts and the running joke was, if we saw them looking at, or talking about, girls, they would have to wear the oven mitts to bed so they wouldn't abuse themselves.
We also sometimes had boy scouts as volunteers. Now, one boy scout can do the work of half and adult, and 2 boy scouts can do the work of a quarter of an adult, and 3 or more boy scouts can't get any work done at all. We usually had around 6. We had to baby sit them, in an industrial kitchen, while their so called leaders were off drinking coffee somewhere.
We also often had people doing court ordered community service as volunteers. Surly teenagers who don't want to be there are better volunteers than boy scouts, but not near as good as Mormon Boys.
Well, I could tell Mormon stories all day, but I doubt anyone is finding them interesting.
While you, living in Utah, have found Mormons to be a despicable bunch, I don't think I have met a Mormon (or Jack Mormon) I didn't like.
Except maybe Romney, but I never really met him.
I know this concept very well..."Yeah, he's an asshole, but he's OUR asshole".
JP summed my feelings up very well earlier in the thread and his advice was on point.
Fair enough, and I respect that even if you're totally incorrect.
Your continued silence on Romney's racist past and his failure to denounce it is disappointing, though.
Show me an example of Romney being a racist beyond belonging to Harry Reid's church and I'll call a spade a spade.
I do know that his father was pro-Civil Rights even before the LDS publicly changed their stance.
Romney's advocacy of civil rights brought him criticism from some in his own church in January 1964, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles member Delbert L. Stapley wrote him that a proposed civil rights bill was "vicious legislation" and telling him that "the Lord had placed the curse upon the Negro" and men should not seek its removal. Romney refused to change his position and increased his efforts towards civil rights. Regarding the church policy itself, Romney was among those liberal Mormons who hoped the church leadership would revise the theological interpretation that underlay it,but Romney did not believe in publicly criticizing the church, subsequently saying that fellow Mormon Stewart Udall's 1967 published denunciation of the policy "cannot serve any useful religious purpose".
It appears that George Romney was able to check his religious beliefs at the door when it came to racism and even went against them in his actual actions.
Show me where Mitt has done something/anything racist and I'll agree with you.
Until then he's just a Presidential candidate that I won't support who happens to be Mormon.
Show me an example of Romney being a racist beyond belonging to Harry Reid's church and I'll call a spade a spade.
I do know that his father was pro-Civil Rights even before the LDS publicly changed their stance.
Romney's advocacy of civil rights brought him criticism from some in his own church in January 1964, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles member Delbert L. Stapley wrote him that a proposed civil rights bill was "vicious legislation" and telling him that "the Lord had placed the curse upon the Negro" and men should not seek its removal. Romney refused to change his position and increased his efforts towards civil rights. Regarding the church policy itself, Romney was among those liberal Mormons who hoped the church leadership would revise the theological interpretation that underlay it,but Romney did not believe in publicly criticizing the church, subsequently saying that fellow Mormon Stewart Udall's 1967 published denunciation of the policy "cannot serve any useful religious purpose".
It appears that George Romney was able to check his religious beliefs at the door when it came to racism and even went against them in his actual actions.
Show me where Mitt has done something/anything racist and I'll agree with you.
Until then he's just a Presidential candidate that I won't support who happens to be Mormon.
I'm not saying he is a racist, and never have. I am saying that Romney was highly involved in a racist organization for 31 years and refused to denounce that part of that organization's history. Note, I continue to use the word organization, which should tip you off that I'm really not hung up on Mormonism itself. I think it's weird, but as I've stated at least 5 other times, there is plenty to dislike about Romney.
I posted the video. Maybe you didn't check it out, You should. He was pressed by Russert several times on the issue, and he refused to say that the Mormon church was wrong about being racist for over 100 years. I'm not ok with that. It shows a lack of character and strength, which really has nothing to do with one's religion.
As to Harry Reid, if you can find an instance of him refusing to denounce his church's past, do it. Otherwise, why is being brought up? Do you know what his views are on this? We know what Romney's are, at least this subject. I posted the video.
As to Harry Reid, if you can find an instance of him refusing to denounce his church's past, do it.
^^^Beautiful^^^^
Tell you what, why don't you show us all an instance where Mr. Reid DOES denounce his church's past because I am certain that Tim Russert would never have the motivation to ask him directly.
Harry Reid converted to Mormonism when he was in college, that would be late 50s or early 60s.
While other college students were working for civil rights Reid was joining a racist organization.
Reid is a well known scum bad, who happens to be a Democrat.
I can think of no reason why someone would like or defend him.
Reid is one of the main reasons that the ACA took so long to pass and so messed up.
As to Harry Reid, if you can find an instance of him refusing to denounce his church's past, do it.
^^^Beautiful^^^^
Tell you what, why don't you show us all an instance where Mr. Reid DOES denounce his church's past because I am certain that Tim Russert would never have the motivation to ask him directly.
Haha! You like that?
I prefer an apples to apples comparison, Rock. If you no gots, you no gots....
Going to have respectfully disagree about Russert. Dude pulled few if any punches.
For real though...I'm cool with talmbout other ish re: Romney. Who wants to address the fact that it's been 6 days since Obama seized the Latino vote and Romney has yet to make a substantive statement about it?
As to Harry Reid, if you can find an instance of him refusing to denounce his church's past, do it.
^^^Beautiful^^^^
Tell you what, why don't you show us all an instance where Mr. Reid DOES denounce his church's past because I am certain that Tim Russert would never have the motivation to ask him directly.
Haha! You like that?
I prefer an apples to apples comparison, Rock. If you no gots, you no gots....
Going to have respectfully disagree about Russert. Dude pulled few if any punches.
This is why I could never be a lawyer....I like to sleep at night.
There is no "apples to apples" to compare unless you know of an instance when a member of the media proposed the same line of questioning to Reid.....I couldn't find one.
I also can not find an instance where Romney "didn't check his racism at the door" when performing elected duties.
I'll end this thread by putting the burden of proof for either of these things on you...if you no gots, you no gots and no further diversions will change that fact.
This is why I could never be a lawyer....I like to sleep at night.
There is no "apples to apples" to compare unless you know of an instance when a member of the media proposed the same line of questioning to Reid.....I couldn't find one.
I also can not find an instance where Romney "didn't check his racism at the door" when performing elected duties.
I'll end this thread by putting the burden of proof for either of these things on you...if you no gots, you no gots and no further diversions will change that fact.
Sorry Rock, the BOP is on you since you keep bringing up false comparisons like JFK, Robert Byrd, and Harry Reid (without knowing the first thing about what he beliefs). Nothing changes that. I've met my burden by posting that MTP press clip where Romney refuses to denounce his church's racist past.
Nothing also changes the fact that you gloss over my statement that I never said Romney was a racist(no need for him to check his racism at the door, because I don't think he is one, he's willing to pander to them though, as thymebomb alludes to), but I am saying he's a gutless coward.
That said, no one wants to talk about anything other than Romney's religion?
There is no "apples to apples" to compare unless you know of an instance when a member of the media proposed the same line of questioning to Reid.....I couldn't find one.
That would only really be "apples to apples" if Reid was or had been running for President, which he has never done. It's the kind of background question that gets asked in expansive interviews of presidential candidates.
Romney's been running for President nonstop for 6-7 years now and has exposed himself to this sort of thing. And it's a totally fair question. Mo Udall faced it in 1976 when he was running for President. He was a Mormon who had publicly called for his church to change their racist policy. George Romney himself was pro-civil rights. Here's a letter to him from a "Mormon apostle" asking him to knock it off:
Grossest laugh line in the letter: "Now don't think I am against the Negro people, because I have several in my employ."
I see no sign of Mitt being as decent as either Udall or his father in this regard, and on gay civil rights he's a total failure. He has also refused to denounce Donald Trump and his birther circus and has used Trump as a fundraiser and campaign surrogate. The birther stuff is 100% pure racism and Romney is perfectly willing to associate with it.
So it's absolutely fair to ask him these questions and think less of him because 1) he's a weasel, and 2) he has it coming.
Now this is truth.
Romney's only true belief is that he should be president.
Who wants to address the fact that it's been 6 days since Obama seized the Latino vote and Romney has yet to make a substantive statement about it?
This was a great move on Obama's part.
The kind of bold Presidential step that he rarely takes. And a political coup.
Most importantly, as the President said, it was the right thing to do.
The sad part is that when Dems controlled the house and had the majority in the senate they failed to get the Dream Act passed.
The sad part is that it took sagging numbers among Latino voters for the President to act.
I think Romney would like to take a liberal view toward immigration, but the political calculus has him stymied.
He has (undocumented) Latinos in his employ.
So I went to Willard's website (if you click through the google ad he has to pay google).
It is filled with bad looks.
His tag line:
Mitt Romney is focused on implementing a set of conservative principles to reinforce the America we once knew.
Yeah, that will catch on the way 'Hope' did.
First thing I see is in the rotating photo gallery is pic of the DDay landing. The photo, shot from the back of an amphibious vehicle, shows GIs slogging through rough deep waters towards the distant French shore. From history (or from Hollywood) we know the vehicles were supposed to land on the beach, but got scared by enemy fire and forced the GIs out into the water where many were shot or drowned.
He features endorsements from Rand Paul, Michele Bachmann and Newt Gingrich.
Nothing on that web site about immigration. Not the most official site.
It is a "good" page in that it touts our immigrant past, supports legal immigration to make the economy stronger, and hits all the conservative close our boarders type stuff.
Nothing about adults who were brought here as children.
First thing I see is in the rotating photo gallery is pic of the DDay landing. The photo, shot from the back of an amphibious vehicle, shows GIs slogging through rough deep waters towards the distant French shore. From history (or from Hollywood) we know the vehicles were supposed to land on the beach, but got scared by enemy fire and forced the GIs out into the water where many were shot or drowned.
I think this is a long-debunked slur against the US Coast Guard.
What is a slur against the Coast Guard?
I am going to be very surprised if you show me that the Coast Guard was involved with DDay.
What it has to with anything is that it was the first thing I saw on that pro-Romney website.
If you have any proof that what I said is inaccurate I please show me. I would be happy to learn that soldiers did not die in the botched landing on DDAy.
Who wants to address the fact that it's been 6 days since Obama seized the Latino vote and Romney has yet to make a substantive statement about it?
This was a great move on Obama's part.
The kind of bold Presidential step that he rarely takes. And a political coup.
Most importantly, as the President said, it was the right thing to do.
The sad part is that when Dems controlled the house and had the majority in the senate they failed to get the Dream Act passed.
The sad part is that it took sagging numbers among Latino voters for the President to act.
I think Romney would like to take a liberal view toward immigration, but the political calculus has him stymied.
He has (undocumented) Latinos in his employ.
Comments
Looks like somebody here is good at dishing out the straw arguments, but not so good at taking them.
Things Soulstrut does not know the definition of :
Bigot
Straw Argument
Please show me where I've made a straw argument. I have rebutted everyone specifically based on the facts of their statements. In fact resorting to calling me a bigot to not have to logically debate me is itself a straw argument.
I fully support Mormon's rights to live and do as they please I just don't want them in power telling me what to do and making legal decisions based on their religious beliefs that affect my freedoms. Which they do in Utah all the time.
Rubio is against gay marriage because "the bible says it is"...more legislative philosophy from a book written before people knew where the sun went at night. Yeah, he is a real leader. Sure it is just gay marriage, as it has been pointed out hete is "just a distraction", but using the bible as your only basis for a law is fucked up...
OK:
That is a textbook definition of a straw argument right there.
Here's some more straw arguments about a subject I never mentioned (including my non-existent "support" of Romney) :
In your mind, the fact that I don't share your hysterical fear of Mormonism means that I am, of course, down with any and all aspects of the evil right-wing agenda as you see it.
Careful, you're about to be called a bigot.
Can't speak for anyone else, but my "favorite" Christian politicians are in favor of gay rights, so why would I denounce them? Being Christian does not mean being anti-gay. Not sure why you think it does. In fact, more likely, anti gay people use religion as a sword in order to advance their hate agenda. You know, guys like your boy Rubio.
No disrespect, but one of the top bad looks is coming from you, Rock. You seem to think that being highly involved in a racist organization for 31 years is not a racist act. You seem to think that not denouncing said racist past of that organization is just fine.
Harry Reid isn't trying to force his relgious beliefs on you or me. Romney is. Not sure why this a hard concept for you to get. Does Reid personally believe in abortion? Check his website if you really care and aren't just trying deflect the convo from the topic of the thread you started. Does he believe in Mark of Cain? He is a Mormon, so likely. But, we can look at a guy like Reid's legislative history as proof positve that he isn't trying to force that ish on us. We can look at Romney's words today as proof positive that given the chance, he will.
I know this concept very well..."Yeah, he's an asshole, but he's OUR asshole".
JP summed my feelings up very well earlier in the thread and his advice was on point.
hey, how about that fast and the furious, huh?
This thread is about Romney.
As I said, you are free to believe what you want.
Your knowledge of Mormon theology may have come from Mormons you know, but it might not be accurate.
Polygamy is not part of LDS theology.
Blacks have full sacramental rights in the LDS church and many Blacks are in the LDS church.
The fact that you know so many polygamist Mormons and Mormons who don't agree with the church on race demonstrates the range of beliefs among Mormons and the ability for individuals Mormons to hold views and live their lives contrary to Church teachings.
I had no idea that there was a Mormon police force. Thank you for the information.
Prosecution of polygamy is near impossible.
Unless there are multiple civil marriages there is no crime of polygamy.
Arizona, Texas and Utah all have prosecuted polygamist, mostly charging them with child welfare crimes.
I can understand it is a drag to live some place where drinking and gambling is restricted.
I can understand you not wanting a president who will legislate Mormon theology.
I can understand you not wanting Willard as President.
What I don't understand is why you think he will legislate Mormon theology.
Until he started running for president his views, and actions, in regards to gays and abortion were left of the Republican mainstream.
That they are now in step with the Republican mainstream has little to do with him being Mormon and everything to do with him being willing to do or say anything to win the election.
Sorry about all the above. I am going to drop it now. Believe what you want.
I started this reply because you repeatedly have asked me if I know any Mormons.
So for the last few days I have been thinking about Mormons I have known.
I think the first Mormon I met was while hitch hiking through Utah when I was about 19.
He was so happy to give a ride to a Jew. Mormons kinda see themselves as Jews. He gave me the a copy of the Book Of Mormon. Inside the Book Of Mormon is all the secret stuff they don't want anyone to know about them.
On my return trip, in Wyoming, a cop stopped me, took me to an isolated cafe, made me buy a Greyhound ticket.
I sat in that cafe about for about 5 hours reading the BoM, and listening to the other patrons talk.
It was there that I first heard the story of a cop car getting caught between 2 truckers.
The lead truck slowed down, the back truck sped up, and they crushed the cop car and left it on the highway.
Not long after that, again in Wyoming, I got a ride from a car full of teens.
It was early on a Sunday morning. They were tired and wasted, had been drinking all night.
They were on their way back to Utah, because as they explained, one girl needed to get home before church, and I suppose before her parents found out she was not in bed.
The others were Jack Mormons and didn't go to church.
About the same time, in Okmulgee Oklahoma where I was living, I met a Mormon guy and became friends with him.
When I left Okmulgee I spent a little time in Vernal with him. Great guy.
I just tracked him down and wrote to him telling him about our online discussion.
That was all way back in the 1970s.
Since then I have known many Mormons.
Most of them have been involved in charities I was involved with.
I used to work every weekend in the Meals on Wheels central kitchen.
Some of the employees there were Mormons, but I didn't have much contact with them.
I did have a lot of contact with the volunteers.
For a long time we had a revolving cast of "Mormon Boys". Missionaries.
They were all great volunteers.
We had these huge oven mitts and the running joke was, if we saw them looking at, or talking about, girls, they would have to wear the oven mitts to bed so they wouldn't abuse themselves.
We also sometimes had boy scouts as volunteers. Now, one boy scout can do the work of half and adult, and 2 boy scouts can do the work of a quarter of an adult, and 3 or more boy scouts can't get any work done at all. We usually had around 6. We had to baby sit them, in an industrial kitchen, while their so called leaders were off drinking coffee somewhere.
We also often had people doing court ordered community service as volunteers. Surly teenagers who don't want to be there are better volunteers than boy scouts, but not near as good as Mormon Boys.
Well, I could tell Mormon stories all day, but I doubt anyone is finding them interesting.
While you, living in Utah, have found Mormons to be a despicable bunch, I don't think I have met a Mormon (or Jack Mormon) I didn't like.
Except maybe Romney, but I never really met him.
Fair enough, and I respect that even if you're totally incorrect.
Your continued silence on Romney's racist past and his failure to denounce it is disappointing, though.
Not directed at me, but...
Since you and Vol, have kinda been on one side, and rock on I on the other...
I have addressed this.
Show me an example of Romney being a racist beyond belonging to Harry Reid's church and I'll call a spade a spade.
I do know that his father was pro-Civil Rights even before the LDS publicly changed their stance.
Romney's advocacy of civil rights brought him criticism from some in his own church in January 1964, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles member Delbert L. Stapley wrote him that a proposed civil rights bill was "vicious legislation" and telling him that "the Lord had placed the curse upon the Negro" and men should not seek its removal. Romney refused to change his position and increased his efforts towards civil rights. Regarding the church policy itself, Romney was among those liberal Mormons who hoped the church leadership would revise the theological interpretation that underlay it,but Romney did not believe in publicly criticizing the church, subsequently saying that fellow Mormon Stewart Udall's 1967 published denunciation of the policy "cannot serve any useful religious purpose".
It appears that George Romney was able to check his religious beliefs at the door when it came to racism and even went against them in his actual actions.
Show me where Mitt has done something/anything racist and I'll agree with you.
Until then he's just a Presidential candidate that I won't support who happens to be Mormon.
I'm not saying he is a racist, and never have. I am saying that Romney was highly involved in a racist organization for 31 years and refused to denounce that part of that organization's history. Note, I continue to use the word organization, which should tip you off that I'm really not hung up on Mormonism itself. I think it's weird, but as I've stated at least 5 other times, there is plenty to dislike about Romney.
I posted the video. Maybe you didn't check it out, You should. He was pressed by Russert several times on the issue, and he refused to say that the Mormon church was wrong about being racist for over 100 years. I'm not ok with that. It shows a lack of character and strength, which really has nothing to do with one's religion.
As to Harry Reid, if you can find an instance of him refusing to denounce his church's past, do it. Otherwise, why is being brought up? Do you know what his views are on this? We know what Romney's are, at least this subject. I posted the video.
You have? I'm sorry, mang, I must have missed it. I'll go back and look.
^^^Beautiful^^^^
Tell you what, why don't you show us all an instance where Mr. Reid DOES denounce his church's past because I am certain that Tim Russert would never have the motivation to ask him directly.
While other college students were working for civil rights Reid was joining a racist organization.
Reid is a well known scum bad, who happens to be a Democrat.
I can think of no reason why someone would like or defend him.
Reid is one of the main reasons that the ACA took so long to pass and so messed up.
Haha! You like that?
I prefer an apples to apples comparison, Rock. If you no gots, you no gots....
Going to have respectfully disagree about Russert. Dude pulled few if any punches.
For real though...I'm cool with talmbout other ish re: Romney. Who wants to address the fact that it's been 6 days since Obama seized the Latino vote and Romney has yet to make a substantive statement about it?
This is why I could never be a lawyer....I like to sleep at night.
There is no "apples to apples" to compare unless you know of an instance when a member of the media proposed the same line of questioning to Reid.....I couldn't find one.
I also can not find an instance where Romney "didn't check his racism at the door" when performing elected duties.
I'll end this thread by putting the burden of proof for either of these things on you...if you no gots, you no gots and no further diversions will change that fact.
Sorry Rock, the BOP is on you since you keep bringing up false comparisons like JFK, Robert Byrd, and Harry Reid (without knowing the first thing about what he beliefs). Nothing changes that. I've met my burden by posting that MTP press clip where Romney refuses to denounce his church's racist past.
Nothing also changes the fact that you gloss over my statement that I never said Romney was a racist(no need for him to check his racism at the door, because I don't think he is one, he's willing to pander to them though, as thymebomb alludes to), but I am saying he's a gutless coward.
That said, no one wants to talk about anything other than Romney's religion?
Now this is truth.
Romney's only true belief is that he should be president.
This was a great move on Obama's part.
The kind of bold Presidential step that he rarely takes. And a political coup.
Most importantly, as the President said, it was the right thing to do.
The sad part is that when Dems controlled the house and had the majority in the senate they failed to get the Dream Act passed.
The sad part is that it took sagging numbers among Latino voters for the President to act.
I think Romney would like to take a liberal view toward immigration, but the political calculus has him stymied.
He has (undocumented) Latinos in his employ.
I don't think anyone here disagrees on anything regarding Romney other than the bias that was aimed at his religious beliefs.
It is filled with bad looks.
His tag line:
Mitt Romney is focused on implementing a set of conservative principles to reinforce the America we once knew.
Yeah, that will catch on the way 'Hope' did.
First thing I see is in the rotating photo gallery is pic of the DDay landing. The photo, shot from the back of an amphibious vehicle, shows GIs slogging through rough deep waters towards the distant French shore. From history (or from Hollywood) we know the vehicles were supposed to land on the beach, but got scared by enemy fire and forced the GIs out into the water where many were shot or drowned.
He features endorsements from Rand Paul, Michele Bachmann and Newt Gingrich.
Nothing on that web site about immigration. Not the most official site.
OK here is his official sites take on immigration:
http://www.mittromney.com/issues/immigration
It is a "good" page in that it touts our immigrant past, supports legal immigration to make the economy stronger, and hits all the conservative close our boarders type stuff.
Nothing about adults who were brought here as children.
I think this is a long-debunked slur against the US Coast Guard.
Anyway, WTF does it have to do with anything?
I am going to be very surprised if you show me that the Coast Guard was involved with DDay.
What it has to with anything is that it was the first thing I saw on that pro-Romney website.
If you have any proof that what I said is inaccurate I please show me. I would be happy to learn that soldiers did not die in the botched landing on DDAy.
Absolutely agree, except the part that Roney would like to take a liberal view toward immigration. During the primaries his immigration policy was Self-deportation. Huh? But, it looks like Mitt has flip-flopped on that today.....http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/speech-to-latino-leaders-could-be-pivotal-for-romney--and-gop/2012/06/21/gJQATmNIsV_story.html?hpid=z1
Does this guy stand for anything?