Everything I've said about the Mormon's is true. They actively try to stop gay marriage in other states, which is bigoted and a violation of states rights. They also believe that black people are black because they were cursed by God. I'm pretty sure that's bigoted too. Not really sure how thinking that this is a really bad group to pull a pres from makes me the bigot.
They aren't OK just letting people be themselves. They show up at your door and try to covert you to their belief system and if you join and break a rule they ostracize you. (yes I realize plenty of people do this) They also try to act like Utah is their state even though they are not the majority and their is suppose to be separation of church and state. This isn't the 1800's. They only reason they ended up here in he first place is because everyone else kicked them out of state after state and city after city and Utah wasn't settled yet.
Saying that everyone who is a member of a group is exactly like, and believes the same things and acts the same way as everyone else in that group is the definition of being a bigot.
If Mormonism has beliefs that you disagree with, fine.
If Romney has beliefs that you disagree with, fine.
Saying that Romney believes everything that any Mormon has ever believed is bigoted.
Saying that if he is elected the Mormon church will be running the country is bigoted.
Saying that he will be forcing Mormon beliefs on all Americans if elected is bigoted.
The reason so many people think they are not bigoted is because they have no idea what it means to be a bigot.
Mormon's like other religions is filled with all kinds of nutty ideas and beliefs.
That does not make them a cult. Nor does their underwear, or their church hierarchy.
Trying to stop gay marriage is bigoted.
Willard's views on gay marriage is a good reason to oppose him.
Mormons live in every state and have a right to vote and support or oppose ballot measures in those states.
All US Citizens have the right to support or oppose politicians and ballot measures outside their home state.
Mormonism officially stopped discriminating against Blacks until 1978.
Like many Christians they believed that black skin was the mark of Cain.
Mormonism, like most Christian denominations, believe that every one living today was a member of Noah's family and was on the Ark.
I would love to hear a reporter ask Willard what his views on Blacks and civil rights were before 1978.
And if he believed in equal rights then why did he not speak out against Church teaching.
Part of the problem with Mormon's is they aren't allowed to question what's handed down from the elders and they know they will be ostracized if they do. Forcing someone to adopt a very specific set of beliefs that they cannot question and will be punished for questioning or violating is very cult like, if not a cult. It's not much different than Scientology and they are considered a cult by many as well. Many Christians and Catholics have adopted evolution but with the inelegant design twist. So they have at least given in on their beliefs a little based on scientific discoveries. (though I still agree most religious are pretty wacky) If pressed, a Mormon will repeat all the crazy nonsense he's been taught and will not say "well I don't really believe that part" They know better.
Mormons still believe in the mark of Cain. I had a Mormon tell me about it not 10 years ago, prefaced with "your not going to like this...". So they are still teaching that garbage even if they "official" said they aren't racist. The whole US "officially" stopped being racist in the 60's but we still have watermelon jokes about the first black president in newspapers. Hmmmmm...maybe "officially" doesn't mean much.
I never once said that Romney would force Mormonism on the country or that the Mormon church would be running the country. Please find the quote where I said that.
What I did say is that Mormon's are about as far right as you can get and we already have the Christian right legislating morality and shoving it in our face. Mormon's would like a lot of the same things the Christian's want so Romney will be more than happy to pass an legislated ban on : gay marriage, medical marijuana, gambling etc etc. These are conservative religious beliefs that have no place in law what so ever. I don't want a conservative religious president of any religion.
The Mormon's don't even want people outside their group to know most of what they believe because they know how crazy it sounds to anyone not raised with that stuff being repeated to them everyday until they accept it (not cult like at all, no). Ironically when I went to look up cult on the Websters web site the comments were all one big argument about whether the Mormon's were a cult. Pretty ironic.
I also looked up bigot and I am not a bigot. Being a bigot is hating and being intolerant. Saying they all believe the same thing is not being a bigot. Newsflash, they are part of a religious group which is a belief system. If pressed they will all say they believe every word of the doctrine. This is not a class/ethnic issue which is what bigot is used for. I don't hate the Mormon's and I tolerate them everyday of my life as I live in Utah. But I chose not to be a Mormon and I don't like them legislating their belief system into state law and I certainly don't want someone who is so easily influenced and clearly hard right being the head of the federal government. The Mormon's are free to believe what they want but they don't think I should be free to do what I want. The Mormon's hate gays, hate gambling are intolerant of blacks and actually baptize the dead of other religions to Mormon because the (now) dead obviously chose wrong when they were alive. They have been warned by the national Jewish council several times to knock it off and they are violating religious freedom (OF DEAD PEOPLE!). Have you been to Utah? There are like 5 black people in the whole state. They have clearly not been welcome. So really, who's the bigot.
Mormonism officially stopped discriminating against Blacks until 1978.
MItt Romney was born in 1947. That means he was 31 when Mormons finally officially did away with being racist. Giving Romney a generous pass on being a child from ages 0-17, that means he was a devout, serious member of a racist "religion" for 13 years of his adult life.
Someone needs to ask him about that.
Too bad Robert Byrd isn't alive to ask him.
Are there any examples of Romney himself being racist?
Everything I've said about the Mormon's is true. They actively try to stop gay marriage in other states, which is bigoted and a violation of states rights. They also believe that black people are black because they were cursed by God. I'm pretty sure that's bigoted too. Not really sure how thinking that this is a really bad group to pull a pres from makes me the bigot.
They aren't OK just letting people be themselves. They show up at your door and try to covert you to their belief system and if you join and break a rule they ostracize you. (yes I realize plenty of people do this) They also try to act like Utah is their state even though they are not the majority and their is suppose to be separation of church and state. This isn't the 1800's. They only reason they ended up here in he first place is because everyone else kicked them out of state after state and city after city and Utah wasn't settled yet.
Saying that everyone who is a member of a group is exactly like, and believes the same things and acts the same way as everyone else in that group is the definition of being a bigot.
If Mormonism has beliefs that you disagree with, fine.
If Romney has beliefs that you disagree with, fine.
Saying that Romney believes everything that any Mormon has ever believed is bigoted.
Saying that if he is elected the Mormon church will be running the country is bigoted.
Saying that he will be forcing Mormon beliefs on all Americans if elected is bigoted.
The reason so many people think they are not bigoted is because they have no idea what it means to be a bigot.
Mormon's like other religions is filled with all kinds of nutty ideas and beliefs.
That does not make them a cult. Nor does their underwear, or their church hierarchy.
Trying to stop gay marriage is bigoted.
Willard's views on gay marriage is a good reason to oppose him.
Mormons live in every state and have a right to vote and support or oppose ballot measures in those states.
All US Citizens have the right to support or oppose politicians and ballot measures outside their home state.
Mormonism officially stopped discriminating against Blacks until 1978.
Like many Christians they believed that black skin was the mark of Cain.
Mormonism, like most Christian denominations, believe that every one living today was a member of Noah's family and was on the Ark.
I would love to hear a reporter ask Willard what his views on Blacks and civil rights were before 1978.
And if he believed in equal rights then why did he not speak out against Church teaching.
Part of the problem with Mormon's is they aren't allowed to question what's handed down from the elders and they know they will be ostracized if they do. Forcing someone to adopt a very specific set of beliefs that they cannot question and will be punished for questioning or violating is very cult like, if not a cult. It's not much different than Scientology and they are considered a cult by many as well. Many Christians and Catholics have adopted evolution but with the inelegant design twist. So they have at least given in on their beliefs a little based on scientific discoveries. (though I still agree most religious are pretty wacky) If pressed, a Mormon will repeat all the crazy nonsense he's been taught and will not say "well I don't really believe that part" They know better.
Mormons still believe in the mark of Cain. I had a Mormon tell me about it not 10 years ago, prefaced with "your not going to like this...". So they are still teaching that garbage even if they "official" said they aren't racist. The whole US "officially" stopped being racist in the 60's but we still have watermelon jokes about the first black president in newspapers. Hmmmmm...maybe "officially" doesn't mean much.
I never once said that Romney would force Mormonism on the country or that the Mormon church would be running the country. Please find the quote where I said that.
What I did say is that Mormon's are about as far right as you can get and we already have the Christian right legislating morality and shoving it in our face. Mormon's would like a lot of the same things the Christian's want so Romney will be more than happy to pass an legislated ban on : gay marriage, medical marijuana, gambling etc etc. These are conservative religious beliefs that have no place in law what so ever. I don't want a conservative religious president of any religion.
The Mormon's don't even want people outside their group to know most of what they believe because they know how crazy it sounds to anyone not raised with that stuff being repeated to them everyday until they accept it (not cult like at all, no). Ironically when I went to look up cult on the Websters web site the comments were all one big argument about whether the Mormon's were a cult. Pretty ironic.
I also looked up bigot and I am not a bigot. Being a bigot is hating and being intolerant. Saying they all believe the same thing is not being a bigot. Newsflash, they are part of a religious group which is a belief system. If pressed they will all say they believe every word of the doctrine. This is not a class/ethnic issue which is what bigot is used for. I don't hate the Mormon's and I tolerate them everyday of my life as I live in Utah. But I chose not to be a Mormon and I don't like them legislating their belief system into state law and I certainly don't want someone who is so easily influenced and clearly hard right being the head of the federal government. The Mormon's are free to believe what they want but they don't think I should be free to do what I want. The Mormon's hate gays, hate gambling are intolerant of blacks and actually baptize the dead of other religions to Mormon because the (now) dead obviously chose wrong when they were alive. They have been warned by the national Jewish council several times to knock it off and they are violating religious freedom (OF DEAD PEOPLE!). Have you been to Utah? There are like 5 black people in the whole state. They have clearly not been welcome. So really, who's the bigot.
I know one thing for sure.....If Mitt Romney had written what you did above but replaced Mormon with "Black Man" and went on to list all the stereotypes that he hates about African Americans and their culture he would be a bigot.
I think you can question Mormonism, or any religion for that matter and evaluate it on an intellectual and moral/ethical basis and express your dislike for it based on this without being a bigot because all religion is a choice...it is in no way the same as being gay, being of a particular ethnicity, having a particular skin color, or anything that is genetic. When we start putting religion and race/ethnicty on the same shelf we are saying they are the same. I know of no instances of anyone being born with a belief system.
Are there any examples of Romney himself being racist?
Robert Byrd rejected that part of his past very publicly, I don't recall Romney doing the same. So that analogy isn't really appropos, IMO. But, I'll look on the googlebox to see if he has.
Being heavily involved in a racist organization for 13 years (again, I'm giving him a huge pass on 18 years of his life) certainly doesn't pass the smell test of non-racist activity. I think that potentially qualifies as an example of Romney being racist.
edit--Here's something from 2007
Yes, it's the same interview where Romney lied about his dad marching with MLK.
I think you can question Mormonism, or any religion for that matter and evaluate it on an intellectual and moral/ethical basis and express your dislike for it based on this without being a bigot because all religion is a choice...it is in no way the same as being gay, being of a particular ethnicity, having a particular skin color, or anything that is genetic. When we start putting religion and race/ethnicty on the same shelf we are saying they are the same. I know of no instances of anyone being born with a belief system.
I agree with this. Religion is a value system and ideology. Can one really be bigoted towards those? I don't think so. I'm I a bigot because I disfavor a value system and ideolgy, like say....racism? No.
I think you can question Mormonism, or any religion for that matter and evaluate it on an intellectual and moral/ethical basis and express your dislike for it based on this without being a bigot because all religion is a choice...it is in no way the same as being gay, being of a particular ethnicity, having a particular skin color, or anything that is genetic. When we start putting religion and race/ethnicty on the same shelf we are saying they are the same. I know of no instances of anyone being born with a belief system.
I agree with this. Religion is a value system and ideology. Can one really be bigoted towards those? I don't think so. I'm I a bigot because I hate a value system and ideolgy, like say....racism? No.
Aren't there Americans that are bigoted towards Muslims?
I think you can question Mormonism, or any religion for that matter and evaluate it on an intellectual and moral/ethical basis and express your dislike for it based on this without being a bigot because all religion is a choice...it is in no way the same as being gay, being of a particular ethnicity, having a particular skin color, or anything that is genetic. When we start putting religion and race/ethnicty on the same shelf we are saying they are the same. I know of no instances of anyone being born with a belief system.
I agree with this. Religion is a value system and ideology. Can one really be bigoted towards those? I don't think so. I'm I a bigot because I hate a value system and ideolgy, like say....racism? No.
Are there Americans that are bigoted towards Muslims?
I think you can question Mormonism, or any religion for that matter and evaluate it on an intellectual and moral/ethical basis and express your dislike for it based on this without being a bigot because all religion is a choice...it is in no way the same as being gay, being of a particular ethnicity, having a particular skin color, or anything that is genetic. When we start putting religion and race/ethnicty on the same shelf we are saying they are the same. I know of no instances of anyone being born with a belief system.
I agree with this. Religion is a value system and ideology. Can one really be bigoted towards those? I don't think so. I'm I a bigot because I hate a value system and ideolgy, like say....racism? No.
Are there Americans that are bigoted towards Muslims?
A Muslim and Islam are not the same thing.
You're suggesting that because religion is a choice there can't be religious bigotry.....semantics on the Islam/Muslim as they are both a choice......and some Jews might disagree.
Everything I've said about the Mormon's is true. They actively try to stop gay marriage in other states, which is bigoted and a violation of states rights. They also believe that black people are black because they were cursed by God. I'm pretty sure that's bigoted too. Not really sure how thinking that this is a really bad group to pull a pres from makes me the bigot.
They aren't OK just letting people be themselves. They show up at your door and try to covert you to their belief system and if you join and break a rule they ostracize you. (yes I realize plenty of people do this) They also try to act like Utah is their state even though they are not the majority and their is suppose to be separation of church and state. This isn't the 1800's. They only reason they ended up here in he first place is because everyone else kicked them out of state after state and city after city and Utah wasn't settled yet.
Saying that everyone who is a member of a group is exactly like, and believes the same things and acts the same way as everyone else in that group is the definition of being a bigot.
If Mormonism has beliefs that you disagree with, fine.
If Romney has beliefs that you disagree with, fine.
Saying that Romney believes everything that any Mormon has ever believed is bigoted.
Saying that if he is elected the Mormon church will be running the country is bigoted.
Saying that he will be forcing Mormon beliefs on all Americans if elected is bigoted.
The reason so many people think they are not bigoted is because they have no idea what it means to be a bigot.
Mormon's like other religions is filled with all kinds of nutty ideas and beliefs.
That does not make them a cult. Nor does their underwear, or their church hierarchy.
Trying to stop gay marriage is bigoted.
Willard's views on gay marriage is a good reason to oppose him.
Mormons live in every state and have a right to vote and support or oppose ballot measures in those states.
All US Citizens have the right to support or oppose politicians and ballot measures outside their home state.
Mormonism officially stopped discriminating against Blacks until 1978.
Like many Christians they believed that black skin was the mark of Cain.
Mormonism, like most Christian denominations, believe that every one living today was a member of Noah's family and was on the Ark.
I would love to hear a reporter ask Willard what his views on Blacks and civil rights were before 1978.
And if he believed in equal rights then why did he not speak out against Church teaching.
Part of the problem with Mormon's is they aren't allowed to question what's handed down from the elders and they know they will be ostracized if they do. Forcing someone to adopt a very specific set of beliefs that they cannot question and will be punished for questioning or violating is very cult like, if not a cult. It's not much different than Scientology and they are considered a cult by many as well. Many Christians and Catholics have adopted evolution but with the inelegant design twist. So they have at least given in on their beliefs a little based on scientific discoveries. (though I still agree most religious are pretty wacky) If pressed, a Mormon will repeat all the crazy nonsense he's been taught and will not say "well I don't really believe that part" They know better.
Mormons still believe in the mark of Cain. I had a Mormon tell me about it not 10 years ago, prefaced with "your not going to like this...". So they are still teaching that garbage even if they "official" said they aren't racist. The whole US "officially" stopped being racist in the 60's but we still have watermelon jokes about the first black president in newspapers. Hmmmmm...maybe "officially" doesn't mean much.
I never once said that Romney would force Mormonism on the country or that the Mormon church would be running the country. Please find the quote where I said that.
What I did say is that Mormon's are about as far right as you can get and we already have the Christian right legislating morality and shoving it in our face. Mormon's would like a lot of the same things the Christian's want so Romney will be more than happy to pass an legislated ban on : gay marriage, medical marijuana, gambling etc etc. These are conservative religious beliefs that have no place in law what so ever. I don't want a conservative religious president of any religion.
The Mormon's don't even want people outside their group to know most of what they believe because they know how crazy it sounds to anyone not raised with that stuff being repeated to them everyday until they accept it (not cult like at all, no). Ironically when I went to look up cult on the Websters web site the comments were all one big argument about whether the Mormon's were a cult. Pretty ironic.
I also looked up bigot and I am not a bigot. Being a bigot is hating and being intolerant. Saying they all believe the same thing is not being a bigot. Newsflash, they are part of a religious group which is a belief system. If pressed they will all say they believe every word of the doctrine. This is not a class/ethnic issue which is what bigot is used for. I don't hate the Mormon's and I tolerate them everyday of my life as I live in Utah. But I chose not to be a Mormon and I don't like them legislating their belief system into state law and I certainly don't want someone who is so easily influenced and clearly hard right being the head of the federal government. The Mormon's are free to believe what they want but they don't think I should be free to do what I want. The Mormon's hate gays, hate gambling are intolerant of blacks and actually baptize the dead of other religions to Mormon because the (now) dead obviously chose wrong when they were alive. They have been warned by the national Jewish council several times to knock it off and they are violating religious freedom (OF DEAD PEOPLE!). Have you been to Utah? There are like 5 black people in the whole state. They have clearly not been welcome. So really, who's the bigot.
I know one thing for sure.....If Mitt Romney had written what you did above but replaced Mormon with "Black Man" and went on to list all the stereotypes that he hates about African Americans and their culture he would be a bigot.
You guys seriously do not get it. You don't chose to be black or gay or Asian etc. You do chose to be part of a religion. And you are responsible for your choices. You can believe in God without being in a specific religion. If you don't believe in he stuff you wouldn't be part of that group. (Unless they are a cult and you are brainwashed, but no they aren't) Yes, many religions hold a very serious grip on their followers making it seem like they don't have a choice but they do. Muslims speak out all the time about how Bin Laden was a psycho, are they bigots? The US has the death penalty and kills people in other countries it deems to be a threat so why wasn't Bin Laden allowed to do the same? So if I start pointing out why the KKK has a bunch of screwed up views and shouldn't be elected to office I'm a bigot? You don't even know what bigot means. People are way too PC and have no clue.
You're suggesting that because religion is a choice there can't be religious bigotry.....semantics on the Islam/Muslim as they are both a choice......and some Jews might disagree.
Let me see if I can clarify: Islam is not a person, so I can't think of how one can bigoted toward a non-person. You can be bigoted towards people, like say, a Muslim, or Jew. But are you really being bigoted for what they believe (Islam and Judaism), or how they act; or more likely, how you perceive them to act? I think it's the latter. Reasonable minds can differ, of course.
I also don't think that every example of bigotry is necessarily a bad thing. I'll take the heat of a bigotry card-pull for stating unequivocally that I hate Nazis and members of the Aryan Nation.
I think you can question Mormonism, or any religion for that matter and evaluate it on an intellectual and moral/ethical basis and express your dislike for it based on this without being a bigot because all religion is a choice...it is in no way the same as being gay, being of a particular ethnicity, having a particular skin color, or anything that is genetic. When we start putting religion and race/ethnicty on the same shelf we are saying they are the same. I know of no instances of anyone being born with a belief system.
I agree with this. Religion is a value system and ideology. Can one really be bigoted towards those? I don't think so. I'm I a bigot because I hate a value system and ideolgy, like say....racism? No.
Aren't there Americans that are bigoted towards Muslims?
I have not once said a single thing about Mormon's that isn't true. Every things I've listed about there beliefs are fact. They think they are from outer space, once they got here God turned the non believers black and their magic jammies will protect them until they die and go on to have celestial sex (yes they teach this too) with their wife on the planet of their choosing in the hear after. If you think only a few Mormon's believe this you are kidding yourself. Mormonism is about rigid adherence to strict doctrine, not independent thought.
If people are bigoted toward Muslims it's when they say they are all terrorist. That's blatantly not true in any way shape or form and the majority of Muslims disown terrorists as not being true Muslims. In this case the term prejudice would be more apt. It's a 100% completely different situation that you are using incorrectly.
You're suggesting that because religion is a choice there can't be religious bigotry.....semantics on the Islam/Muslim as they are both a choice......and some Jews might disagree.
Let me see if I can clarify: Islam is not a person, so I can't think of how one can bigoted toward a non-person. You can be bigoted towards people, like say, a Muslim, or Jew. But are you really being bigoted for what they believe (Islam and Judaism), or how they act; or more likely, how you perceive them to act? I think it's the latter. Reasonable minds can differ, of course.
I also don't think that every example of bigotry is necessarily a bad thing. I'll take the heat of a bigotry card-pull for stating unequivocally that I hate Nazis and members of the Aryan Nation.
Jeeez....I never brought up Islam.....that was some leftfield shit from you....the truth is that you can stereotype and be bigoted against any member of any group Muslim, Jew, Mormon, etc.
But unless there are specific acts, or tendencies that Mitt Romney has displayed himself, and they would certainly be known, I think attacking his religion is no different or a better look than the attacks on Obama for his Rev. Wright affiliations. If he's acted as a racist let's call him on it directly. I think there are more than a few reasons to not vote for Romney but that he's a racist Mormon isn't one of them.
Comparing Mormons in 2012 to Nazis........beautiful.
You're suggesting that because religion is a choice there can't be religious bigotry.....semantics on the Islam/Muslim as they are both a choice......and some Jews might disagree.
Let me see if I can clarify: Islam is not a person, so I can't think of how one can bigoted toward a non-person. You can be bigoted towards people, like say, a Muslim, or Jew. But are you really being bigoted for what they believe (Islam and Judaism), or how they act; or more likely, how you perceive them to act? I think it's the latter. Reasonable minds can differ, of course.
I also don't think that every example of bigotry is necessarily a bad thing. I'll take the heat of a bigotry card-pull for stating unequivocally that I hate Nazis and members of the Aryan Nation.
Jeeez....I never brought up Islam.....that was some leftfield shit from you....the truth is that you can stereotype and be bigoted against any member of any group Muslim, Jew, Mormon, etc.
But unless there are specific acts, or tendencies that Mitt Romney has displayed himself, and they would certainly be known, I think attacking his religion is no different or a better look than the attacks on Obama for his Rev. Wright affiliations. If he's acted as a racist let's call him on it directly. I think there are more than a few reasons to not vote for Romney but that he's a racist Mormon isn't one of them.
Comparing Mormons in 2012 to Nazis........beautiful.
:get_on_my_level:
b/w
:beer:
On a serious tip, I'm not sure why being a serious, highly involved part of a racist organization for 31 years is not a racist act to you.
I said Volumen was sounding bigoted because he was.
I am not going to go back and cut and paste ever statement he made that lead me to that conclusion.
Romney has made it very clear that he believes that Blacks will be equal after they die.
As a Jew and a non-religious person, I believe that a person can be bigoted toward a religious group.
If being a member of religious group meant believing in it's teachings my aunts, uncles and cousins would not have died in the holocaust.
b/w
How are your beliefs that Romney is taking orders from a god on another planet any different than those who believe that Obama is taking orders from lizard people who live in the center of the earth, come from Atlantis and also control who wins at bingo down at the Mason's lodge and planted documents on the Pope's butler?*
Speaking of the Pope, did you know he lives with a bevy of consecrated women?
What is a consecrated woman?
*Please don't answer this question, it is meant as a joke.
Romney has made it very clear that he believes that Blacks will be equal after they die.
It's telling that the dudes from South Park talk more about what Mormons beleive than many Mormons do.
Yea, this videos sums up a lot of what I've been saying nicely. I hadn't even seen anything from this play, but I heard it was good. Of course everyone in it is a bigot I'm sure.
As a Jew and a non-religious person, I believe that a person can be bigoted toward a religious group.
If being a member of religious group meant believing in it's teachings my aunts, uncles and cousins would not have died in the holocaust.
b/w
How are your beliefs that Romney is taking orders from a god on another planet any different than those who believe that Obama is taking orders from lizard people who live in the center of the earth, come from Atlantis and also control who wins at bingo down at the Mason's lodge and planted documents on the Pope's butler?*
Obama is not a public member of the Church of the Latter Day Lizard People. My beliefs are based on the facts that are known about what the Mormon church teaches it's members. It's also backed up by the video you posted which points out that Mormon's have to believe it all and can't just pick and choose which parts of their religion they like. (Thanks for that by the way) Comparing Mormon's to lizard people just shows you have no real argument.
I have no idea what your getting at with the holocaust thing. (Your relatives didn't believe in Judaism so Hitler should have spared them?) I really can't make heads or tales of what your saying there. Hitler killed Jews based on completely fabricated information blaming them for German's problems and inventing false social traits to make them seem like lesser humans. I have done no such thing with the Mormon's what so ever. People believe aliens and dogs talk to them everyday. I don't care just don't put them in office and make laws that affect me. You have time to post youtube videos but you can't cut and paste quotes showing where I have made one single false claim about Mormon's. So not only am I a bigot but now I'm Hitler ready to kill the Mormon's?
You do realize that the Mormon's regularly re-baptize Jewish people after their death and have be repeatedly warned by Jewish religious leaders to stop such practice and it continues. Your OK with that? I'm a bigot to say that's wrong?
Romney makes a choice to belong to this group and fund their practices and ability to teach their beliefs and re baptize you deceased relatives against your families will. I'm not OK with that.
I like you, I've bought records from you but you are way off base.
Mormons should still be judged by their actions, though--not just on what they are supposed to believe based on how they were raised.
I would be OK with that if there were a large amount of lay Mormons. The reality is the Mormon faith doesn't allow casual involvement. You have to go on missions and attend church and pay your tithing and accept everything they say. They send people to your house to collect your tithing to be sure you don't have a chance to skip it. The video sums it up nice with the whole you just have to believe it all and you can't have independent thought.
There are plenty of Catholics that hardly ever go to church and donate little to nothing. A lot of this is because they believe in God but they don't believe in a lot of the stuff the church has tried to force on people over the years. They are OK with gays and condoms and female priests and don't think that sends you to hell. This is part of the reason the Vatican is constantly have to begrudgingly back off on some of these issues. Catholics are also pissed at the cover up style handling of the molestations by priests and embarrassed to be at church not knowing if their priest is a perv. Overall a lot of people have wised up to the fact that you can be a good person and believe in god without going to church every week and giving money to a group that may not be doing things you agree with.
The Mormon's aren't backing off of anything. They said in public God didn't curse black people, but they still teach it and tell people to keep quite about it. I know, I've had Mormon room mates and talked to them in depth about their beliefs.
You can believe what ever you want, but I don't want some with this belief system as pres. I'm fed up with the Christian Right influence on politics why would I want someone even more right leaning?
I have a major problem with any religious fundamentalist holding political office and governing by their beliefs for the main reason that if you are a fundamentalist, you hold the law of God to be greater than the law of the land and the common good of the people. If that is the case, be a religious leader, not a leader of a secular being such as the government. I'm sure there are fundamentalist Jews holding office, but I don't see any laws on the books outlawing pork. You gotta check that shit at the Capitol/city hall/white house door. It is appalling how many states(mine included) that require a belief on God in order to hold office. If that is being bigoted, then I am a bigot...call me the Archie Bunker of anti-fundamentalists, I'm cool with that.
All this rhetoric is great......but since Mitt has been a career politician certainly you can show at least one example where he forced or tried to force his religious beliefs onto his constituents.
I have a major problem with any religious fundamentalist holding political office and governing by their beliefs for the main reason that if you are a fundamentalist, you hold the law of God to be greater than the law of the land and the common good of the people. If that is the case, be a religious leader, not a leader of a secular being such as the government. I'm sure there are fundamentalist Jews holding office, but I don't see any laws on the books outlawing pork. You gotta check that shit at the Capitol/city hall/white house door. It is appalling how many states(mine included) that require a belief on God in order to hold office. If that is being bigoted, then I am a bigot...call me the Archie Bunker of anti-fundamentalists, I'm cool with that.
Did you have a problem with JFK being a devout Catholic? (His opponents claimed the Pope would run the country if he was elected.)
I have a major problem with any religious fundamentalist holding political office and governing by their beliefs for the main reason that if you are a fundamentalist, you hold the law of God to be greater than the law of the land and the common good of the people. If that is the case, be a religious leader, not a leader of a secular being such as the government. I'm sure there are fundamentalist Jews holding office, but I don't see any laws on the books outlawing pork. You gotta check that shit at the Capitol/city hall/white house door. It is appalling how many states(mine included) that require a belief on God in order to hold office. If that is being bigoted, then I am a bigot...call me the Archie Bunker of anti-fundamentalists, I'm cool with that.
Did you have a problem with JFK being a devout Catholic?
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is there an actual law in Tennessee that says you have to believe in God in order to hold office?
Yes. There is a law.
Tennessee Constitution, Article IX, Section 2 No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.[10]
Considering Kennedy was an adulterer I don't consider him a devout Catholic. He was of the first generation of cafeteria Catholics...pick and choose what you want to believe. I am of the generation that started as a cafeteria catholic and is now a non-believer.
I think you can chalk up Mitt's opinion on gay marriage as tied to his religious beliefs. Obama is a Christian but is rejecting old testament teachings...aka checking that shit at the door.
I have a major problem with any religious fundamentalist holding political office and governing by their beliefs for the main reason that if you are a fundamentalist, you hold the law of God to be greater than the law of the land and the common good of the people. If that is the case, be a religious leader, not a leader of a secular being such as the government. I'm sure there are fundamentalist Jews holding office, but I don't see any laws on the books outlawing pork. You gotta check that shit at the Capitol/city hall/white house door. It is appalling how many states(mine included) that require a belief on God in order to hold office. If that is being bigoted, then I am a bigot...call me the Archie Bunker of anti-fundamentalists, I'm cool with that.
Did you have a problem with JFK being a devout Catholic?
b/w
is there an actual law in Tennessee that says you have to believe in God in order to hold office?
Yes. There is a law.
Tennessee Constitution, Article IX, Section 2 No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.[10]
Considering Kennedy was an adulterer I don't consider him a devout Catholic. He was of the first generation of cafeteria Catholics...pick and choose what you want to believe. I am of the generation that started as a cafeteria catholic and is now a non-believer.
I think you can chalk up Mitt's opinion on gay marriage as tied to his religious beliefs. Obama is a Christian but is rejecting old testament teachings...aka checking that shit at the door.
That law is crazy....do they actually enforce it?
I don't disagree with you on the "Checking your religion at the door" and I'm trying to find an example where Romney has not done that. Using gay marriage is a red herring since Obama was elected into office without supporting or advocating the legalization of gay marriage.
Texas Constitution, Article I, Section 4: No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.[11]
Texas Constitution, Article I, Section 4: No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.[11]
Was just reading that....by all accounts, Dem & Rep, the law is not enforced and if it were the consensus is it would be overturned by the Supreme Court as our Federal government considers it unconstitutional. The truth is that no one who claimed to be an Athiest or "non-believer" would win an election in these states because of bigots who don't believe they would check their non-beliefs at the door.
I had a neighbor who was a devote, practicing atheist. Went to atheist meetings on Sunday and had an atheist cable access show.
They were trying to get the Feds to overturn SC's law requiring that all court witness swear on the Bible.
The courts would not hear the case because they couldn't find a harmed party. No one had ever asked not to use the Bible when being sworn in, no one had been forced to use the Bible.
Same might apply in TN. As long as all your elected officials swear an oath to a god there is no harmed party. If a politician declined, was denied office then law suit city.
All this rhetoric is great......but since Mitt has been a career politician certainly you can show at least one example where he forced or tried to force his religious beliefs onto his constituents.
He's saying he would vote for the "personhood" amendment, which states that a fertilized egg is a person with all the rights that come with it.
Comments
Part of the problem with Mormon's is they aren't allowed to question what's handed down from the elders and they know they will be ostracized if they do. Forcing someone to adopt a very specific set of beliefs that they cannot question and will be punished for questioning or violating is very cult like, if not a cult. It's not much different than Scientology and they are considered a cult by many as well. Many Christians and Catholics have adopted evolution but with the inelegant design twist. So they have at least given in on their beliefs a little based on scientific discoveries. (though I still agree most religious are pretty wacky) If pressed, a Mormon will repeat all the crazy nonsense he's been taught and will not say "well I don't really believe that part" They know better.
Mormons still believe in the mark of Cain. I had a Mormon tell me about it not 10 years ago, prefaced with "your not going to like this...". So they are still teaching that garbage even if they "official" said they aren't racist. The whole US "officially" stopped being racist in the 60's but we still have watermelon jokes about the first black president in newspapers. Hmmmmm...maybe "officially" doesn't mean much.
I never once said that Romney would force Mormonism on the country or that the Mormon church would be running the country. Please find the quote where I said that.
What I did say is that Mormon's are about as far right as you can get and we already have the Christian right legislating morality and shoving it in our face. Mormon's would like a lot of the same things the Christian's want so Romney will be more than happy to pass an legislated ban on : gay marriage, medical marijuana, gambling etc etc. These are conservative religious beliefs that have no place in law what so ever. I don't want a conservative religious president of any religion.
The Mormon's don't even want people outside their group to know most of what they believe because they know how crazy it sounds to anyone not raised with that stuff being repeated to them everyday until they accept it (not cult like at all, no). Ironically when I went to look up cult on the Websters web site the comments were all one big argument about whether the Mormon's were a cult. Pretty ironic.
I also looked up bigot and I am not a bigot. Being a bigot is hating and being intolerant. Saying they all believe the same thing is not being a bigot. Newsflash, they are part of a religious group which is a belief system. If pressed they will all say they believe every word of the doctrine. This is not a class/ethnic issue which is what bigot is used for. I don't hate the Mormon's and I tolerate them everyday of my life as I live in Utah. But I chose not to be a Mormon and I don't like them legislating their belief system into state law and I certainly don't want someone who is so easily influenced and clearly hard right being the head of the federal government. The Mormon's are free to believe what they want but they don't think I should be free to do what I want. The Mormon's hate gays, hate gambling are intolerant of blacks and actually baptize the dead of other religions to Mormon because the (now) dead obviously chose wrong when they were alive. They have been warned by the national Jewish council several times to knock it off and they are violating religious freedom (OF DEAD PEOPLE!). Have you been to Utah? There are like 5 black people in the whole state. They have clearly not been welcome. So really, who's the bigot.
Too bad Robert Byrd isn't alive to ask him.
Are there any examples of Romney himself being racist?
I know one thing for sure.....If Mitt Romney had written what you did above but replaced Mormon with "Black Man" and went on to list all the stereotypes that he hates about African Americans and their culture he would be a bigot.
Robert Byrd rejected that part of his past very publicly, I don't recall Romney doing the same. So that analogy isn't really appropos, IMO. But, I'll look on the googlebox to see if he has.
Being heavily involved in a racist organization for 13 years (again, I'm giving him a huge pass on 18 years of his life) certainly doesn't pass the smell test of non-racist activity. I think that potentially qualifies as an example of Romney being racist.
edit--Here's something from 2007
Yes, it's the same interview where Romney lied about his dad marching with MLK.
Decide fo yodelf.
I agree with this. Religion is a value system and ideology. Can one really be bigoted towards those? I don't think so. I'm I a bigot because I disfavor a value system and ideolgy, like say....racism? No.
Aren't there Americans that are bigoted towards Muslims?
A Muslim and Islam are not the same thing.
You're suggesting that because religion is a choice there can't be religious bigotry.....semantics on the Islam/Muslim as they are both a choice......and some Jews might disagree.
You guys seriously do not get it. You don't chose to be black or gay or Asian etc. You do chose to be part of a religion. And you are responsible for your choices. You can believe in God without being in a specific religion. If you don't believe in he stuff you wouldn't be part of that group. (Unless they are a cult and you are brainwashed, but no they aren't) Yes, many religions hold a very serious grip on their followers making it seem like they don't have a choice but they do. Muslims speak out all the time about how Bin Laden was a psycho, are they bigots? The US has the death penalty and kills people in other countries it deems to be a threat so why wasn't Bin Laden allowed to do the same? So if I start pointing out why the KKK has a bunch of screwed up views and shouldn't be elected to office I'm a bigot? You don't even know what bigot means. People are way too PC and have no clue.
Let me see if I can clarify: Islam is not a person, so I can't think of how one can bigoted toward a non-person. You can be bigoted towards people, like say, a Muslim, or Jew. But are you really being bigoted for what they believe (Islam and Judaism), or how they act; or more likely, how you perceive them to act? I think it's the latter. Reasonable minds can differ, of course.
I also don't think that every example of bigotry is necessarily a bad thing. I'll take the heat of a bigotry card-pull for stating unequivocally that I hate Nazis and members of the Aryan Nation.
I have not once said a single thing about Mormon's that isn't true. Every things I've listed about there beliefs are fact. They think they are from outer space, once they got here God turned the non believers black and their magic jammies will protect them until they die and go on to have celestial sex (yes they teach this too) with their wife on the planet of their choosing in the hear after. If you think only a few Mormon's believe this you are kidding yourself. Mormonism is about rigid adherence to strict doctrine, not independent thought.
If people are bigoted toward Muslims it's when they say they are all terrorist. That's blatantly not true in any way shape or form and the majority of Muslims disown terrorists as not being true Muslims. In this case the term prejudice would be more apt. It's a 100% completely different situation that you are using incorrectly.
Jeeez....I never brought up Islam.....that was some leftfield shit from you....the truth is that you can stereotype and be bigoted against any member of any group Muslim, Jew, Mormon, etc.
But unless there are specific acts, or tendencies that Mitt Romney has displayed himself, and they would certainly be known, I think attacking his religion is no different or a better look than the attacks on Obama for his Rev. Wright affiliations. If he's acted as a racist let's call him on it directly. I think there are more than a few reasons to not vote for Romney but that he's a racist Mormon isn't one of them.
Comparing Mormons in 2012 to Nazis........beautiful.
:get_on_my_level:
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:beer:
On a serious tip, I'm not sure why being a serious, highly involved part of a racist organization for 31 years is not a racist act to you.
I am not going to go back and cut and paste ever statement he made that lead me to that conclusion.
Romney has made it very clear that he believes that Blacks will be equal after they die.
If being a member of religious group meant believing in it's teachings my aunts, uncles and cousins would not have died in the holocaust.
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How are your beliefs that Romney is taking orders from a god on another planet any different than those who believe that Obama is taking orders from lizard people who live in the center of the earth, come from Atlantis and also control who wins at bingo down at the Mason's lodge and planted documents on the Pope's butler?*
Speaking of the Pope, did you know he lives with a bevy of consecrated women?
What is a consecrated woman?
*Please don't answer this question, it is meant as a joke.
It's telling that the dudes from South Park talk more about what Mormons beleive than many Mormons do.
Yea, this videos sums up a lot of what I've been saying nicely. I hadn't even seen anything from this play, but I heard it was good. Of course everyone in it is a bigot I'm sure.
Obama is not a public member of the Church of the Latter Day Lizard People. My beliefs are based on the facts that are known about what the Mormon church teaches it's members. It's also backed up by the video you posted which points out that Mormon's have to believe it all and can't just pick and choose which parts of their religion they like. (Thanks for that by the way) Comparing Mormon's to lizard people just shows you have no real argument.
I have no idea what your getting at with the holocaust thing. (Your relatives didn't believe in Judaism so Hitler should have spared them?) I really can't make heads or tales of what your saying there. Hitler killed Jews based on completely fabricated information blaming them for German's problems and inventing false social traits to make them seem like lesser humans. I have done no such thing with the Mormon's what so ever. People believe aliens and dogs talk to them everyday. I don't care just don't put them in office and make laws that affect me. You have time to post youtube videos but you can't cut and paste quotes showing where I have made one single false claim about Mormon's. So not only am I a bigot but now I'm Hitler ready to kill the Mormon's?
You do realize that the Mormon's regularly re-baptize Jewish people after their death and have be repeatedly warned by Jewish religious leaders to stop such practice and it continues. Your OK with that? I'm a bigot to say that's wrong?
Romney makes a choice to belong to this group and fund their practices and ability to teach their beliefs and re baptize you deceased relatives against your families will. I'm not OK with that.
I like you, I've bought records from you but you are way off base.
I would be OK with that if there were a large amount of lay Mormons. The reality is the Mormon faith doesn't allow casual involvement. You have to go on missions and attend church and pay your tithing and accept everything they say. They send people to your house to collect your tithing to be sure you don't have a chance to skip it. The video sums it up nice with the whole you just have to believe it all and you can't have independent thought.
There are plenty of Catholics that hardly ever go to church and donate little to nothing. A lot of this is because they believe in God but they don't believe in a lot of the stuff the church has tried to force on people over the years. They are OK with gays and condoms and female priests and don't think that sends you to hell. This is part of the reason the Vatican is constantly have to begrudgingly back off on some of these issues. Catholics are also pissed at the cover up style handling of the molestations by priests and embarrassed to be at church not knowing if their priest is a perv. Overall a lot of people have wised up to the fact that you can be a good person and believe in god without going to church every week and giving money to a group that may not be doing things you agree with.
The Mormon's aren't backing off of anything. They said in public God didn't curse black people, but they still teach it and tell people to keep quite about it. I know, I've had Mormon room mates and talked to them in depth about their beliefs.
You can believe what ever you want, but I don't want some with this belief system as pres. I'm fed up with the Christian Right influence on politics why would I want someone even more right leaning?
Did you have a problem with JFK being a devout Catholic? (His opponents claimed the Pope would run the country if he was elected.)
Yes. There is a law.
Tennessee Constitution, Article IX, Section 2 No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.[10]
Considering Kennedy was an adulterer I don't consider him a devout Catholic. He was of the first generation of cafeteria Catholics...pick and choose what you want to believe. I am of the generation that started as a cafeteria catholic and is now a non-believer.
I think you can chalk up Mitt's opinion on gay marriage as tied to his religious beliefs. Obama is a Christian but is rejecting old testament teachings...aka checking that shit at the door.
That law is crazy....do they actually enforce it?
I don't disagree with you on the "Checking your religion at the door" and I'm trying to find an example where Romney has not done that. Using gay marriage is a red herring since Obama was elected into office without supporting or advocating the legalization of gay marriage.
Texas Constitution, Article I, Section 4: No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.[11]
Was just reading that....by all accounts, Dem & Rep, the law is not enforced and if it were the consensus is it would be overturned by the Supreme Court as our Federal government considers it unconstitutional. The truth is that no one who claimed to be an Athiest or "non-believer" would win an election in these states because of bigots who don't believe they would check their non-beliefs at the door.
They were trying to get the Feds to overturn SC's law requiring that all court witness swear on the Bible.
The courts would not hear the case because they couldn't find a harmed party. No one had ever asked not to use the Bible when being sworn in, no one had been forced to use the Bible.
Same might apply in TN. As long as all your elected officials swear an oath to a god there is no harmed party. If a politician declined, was denied office then law suit city.
He's saying he would vote for the "personhood" amendment, which states that a fertilized egg is a person with all the rights that come with it.
Or, should we not take him at his word on that?