so 3500 US lives are worth what a million(or probably more) lives in iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan? yeah, that seems right, doesn't it? not to mention how many of our own soldiers lives have been given now? (it's more than the amt. lost in 9/11)
clearly we've made the world safer after decimating a country that had nothing to do with 9-11(iraq) and afghanistan. just think how many kids growing up in iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan adore the US now after all our help. none of those kids associate their countries problems or their own with an ongoing occupation do they? we clearly won their hearts and minds with the "collateral damage", abu ghraib, torture at guantanamo, drone attacks, and our use of depleted uranium which will be causing birth defects and a litany of other health problems to their population for years to come. those kids had it coming didn't they?
"During a three week period of conflict in 2003 in Iraq, 1,000 to 2,000 tonnes of DU munitions were used.[9]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
i'm just saying we can't revenge our way out of this. our actions continue to be an aid in the recruitment of our enemies plain and simple. bin laden's idea was to get us involved in numerous wars in the middle east that would bring our economy to the brink. anyone knows a military powerhouse can only be as strong as it's economy at home or it will eventually start to come apart at the seams.
I've got some news for you young idealistic people.....whom I believe have nothing but good intentions.
War is barbaric....to participate in a war is to be a barbarian...or face certain defeat.
War sucks......most everyone on the face of the earth would prefer a world without any wars.....ever.
War is a human instinct that has been present more often than not in man's time here on earth....and there will be wars until the end of time.....and war may even cause the end of (our) time.
War is not now or has it ever been dominated by one race/country/people.
You can/should be against it.....hope and pray for peace on earth.......do whatever you can to not support war......but it's reality.....and you must deal.
I don't think this was a revenge situation. It was a try to capture the guy behind 9/11, USS Cole, etc. situation It definitely wasn't a turn the other cheek thing. Dude was dangerous. He was one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world. Presumed armed and VERY dangerous. He knew people were looking for him.
so 3500 US lives are worth what a million(or probably more) lives in iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan? yeah, that seems right, doesn't it? not to mention how many of our own soldiers lives have been given now? (it's more than the amt. lost in 9/11)
clearly we've made the world safer after decimating a country that had nothing to do with 9-11(iraq) and afghanistan. just think how many kids growing up in iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan adore the US now after all our help. none of those kids associate their countries problems or their own with an ongoing occupation do they? we clearly won their hearts and minds with the "collateral damage", abu ghraib, torture at guantanamo, drone attacks, and our use of depleted uranium which will be causing birth defects and a litany of other health problems to their population for years to come. those kids had it coming didn't they?
"During a three week period of conflict in 2003 in Iraq, 1,000 to 2,000 tonnes of DU munitions were used.[9]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
i'm just saying we can't revenge our way out of this. our actions continue to be an aid in the recruitment of our enemies plain and simple. bin laden's idea was to get us involved in numerous wars in the middle east that would bring our economy to the brink. anyone knows a military powerhouse can only be as strong as it's economy at home or it will eventually start to come apart at the seams.
I don't think this was a revenge situation. It was a try to capture the guy behind 9/11, USS Cole, etc. situation It definitely wasn't a turn the other cheek thing. Dude was dangerous. He was one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world. Presumed armed and VERY dangerous. He knew people were looking for him.
Well said.
I agree with people that war begets war and hate begets hate. But when a nation is attacked the way were on 9/11 a response is necessary. To bad it didn't happen 10 years ago.
Did you see The Buddha on pbs last night?
He said something like: the conqueror will be conquered, the pillager will be pillaged.
It is time for all of this to come to an end.
I do believe it is possible for people to live in a world without war.
I don't think this was a revenge situation. It was a try to capture the guy behind 9/11, USS Cole, etc. situation It definitely wasn't a turn the other cheek thing. Dude was dangerous. He was one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world. Presumed armed and VERY dangerous. He knew people were looking for him.
One point. He was not one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world.
According to David Brooks, he was a dilettante who got caught in a fire fight one time and turned that into a myth about being a seasoned guerrilla.
I wont defend Brooks or any other op ed writer, but I like reading him and find him informative at times.
Other right wing writers I like to read are Douthat and George Will.
I like George Will because he uses a lot of big words and reading him makes me feel smart.
One point. He was not one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world.
According to David Brooks, he was a dilettante who got caught in a fire fight one time and turned that into a myth about being a seasoned guerrilla.
Yeah, the fact that he planned 9/11. USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc., say otherwise, IMO. Maybe David Brooks can do those things and not be "one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world.", but I doubt it. Or is Brooks saying OBL didn't do those things?
What's the Buddha on PBS? I saw Frontline last night, about the hunt for OBL, is that it? Excuse me ignorance.
Other right wing writers I like to read are Douthat and George Will.
I like George Will because he uses a lot of big words and reading him makes me feel smart.
Reading Will makes me feel smart, too, since he has a long record of being spectacularly wrong about almost everything.
Douthat's a lightweight and I have no idea why the NYT hired him. This is his finest moment:
"One successful foray ended on the guest bed of a high school friend???s parents, with a girl who resembled a chunkier Reese Witherspoon drunkenly masticating my neck and cheeks. It had taken some time to reach this point??????Do most Harvard guys take so long to get what they want???? she had asked, pushing her tongue into my mouth. I wasn???t sure what to say, but then I wasn???t sure this was what I wanted. My throat was dry from too much vodka, and her breasts, spilling out of pink pajamas, threatened my ability to. I was supposed to be excited, but I was bored and somewhat disgusted with myself, with her, with the whole business??? and then whatever residual enthusiasm I felt for the venture dissipated, with shocking speed, as she nibbled at my ear and whispered??????You know, I???m on the pill???" http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/03/16/worst-penthouse-letter-to-the-editor-ever/
One point. He was not one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world.
According to David Brooks, he was a dilettante who got caught in a fire fight one time and turned that into a myth about being a seasoned guerrilla.
Yeah, the fact that he planned 9/11. USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc., say otherwise, IMO. Maybe David Brooks can do those things and not be "one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world.", but I doubt it. Or is Brooks saying OBL didn't do those things?
What's the Buddha on PBS? I saw Frontline last night, about the hunt for OBL, is that it? Excuse me ignorance.
Yea. People need to seriously STFU about this. Proper Muslims deserve proper Muslim burials, not him.
Bon Vivant said:
bassie said:
The problem with revenge is that it never stops.
...Dude was dangerous. He was one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world. Presumed armed and VERY dangerous. He knew people were looking for him.
All of these things apply to dozens of men around the world, even in our own governments...some say guerrilla, some say terrorist, some say freedom fighter, some say soldier.
If this much effort, money and time was put into capturing others like him, I could believe it was in the name of stopping further damage. It's hard to take the argument of stopping additional murders seriously when so many murders are being committed.
It looks like vengeance to me.
We don't need to agree.
If this much effort, money and time was put into capturing others like him, I could believe it was in the name of stopping further damage. It's hard to take the argument of stopping additional murders seriously when so many murders are being committed.
It's not like they pulled his name out a hat and decided, "Let's get that guy!"
I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say here. And what exactly makes you think no effort is being made to find other terrorists?
Hey, I am glad he's been "Actioned" in whatever circumstances. I don't care about his human rights in this case.
But you can't say one thing one day and then say, hang on, actually this happened, the next day without expecting people to wonder if anyone knows or is telling the truth.
Yet this is what has happened. Surely no-one official should have speculated to the press before the facts had been established.
This is funny stuff. If officials hadn't said anything at all that first day THAT would have been used by the usual suspects as fuel for the conspiracy buffs. There is no way of avoiding the whacked out speculations of that crowd.
you keep talmbout how only crazies are raising questions about Osama's death (you insisted this when I said we should have held onto the body further up in the thread; you're saying it again here).
I don't know what you read/where you live/who you talk to, but I'm hearing lots of legit questions about the operation from lots of intelligent, normal people.
Yeah, the fact that he planned 9/11. USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc., say otherwise, IMO. Maybe David Brooks can do those things and not be "one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world.", but I doubt it. Or is Brooks saying OBL didn't do those things?
Well there's a difference between actually being a "seasoned guerrilla fighter" and planning military or quasimilitary attacks. I don't know Brooks' source and probably what I'm suggesting isn't true most of the time, but I'd imagine there are people who've planned successful terrorist attacks who haven't done shit in terms of actually fighting anyone, and I know there are a lot of 'successful' (whatever that means) fighters, in the literal sense, who couldn't plan a fucking birthday party.
Comments
Somebody should ban your unfunny ass.
clearly we've made the world safer after decimating a country that had nothing to do with 9-11(iraq) and afghanistan. just think how many kids growing up in iraq, afghanistan, and pakistan adore the US now after all our help. none of those kids associate their countries problems or their own with an ongoing occupation do they? we clearly won their hearts and minds with the "collateral damage", abu ghraib, torture at guantanamo, drone attacks, and our use of depleted uranium which will be causing birth defects and a litany of other health problems to their population for years to come. those kids had it coming didn't they?
"During a three week period of conflict in 2003 in Iraq, 1,000 to 2,000 tonnes of DU munitions were used.[9]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium
i'm just saying we can't revenge our way out of this. our actions continue to be an aid in the recruitment of our enemies plain and simple. bin laden's idea was to get us involved in numerous wars in the middle east that would bring our economy to the brink. anyone knows a military powerhouse can only be as strong as it's economy at home or it will eventually start to come apart at the seams.
also of note:we are seeing revolutions in a number of middle eastern and african countries and guess what: the revolutions had nothing to do with a.q. but they are serving to topple the "near enemy" which was a stated goal of o.b.l.
this is discussed here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-soviet-union-baddie
also this has some interesting points:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/bin-laden-death-us-patriot-reflex
one last thing:
a very wise and influential stoner once said:
"an eye for an eye makes the world go blind"
fortunately, we can disregard this statement today as he was probably drunk or stoned when he said it.
exactly.
Damn... there goes my hope that nobody around here read that.
War is barbaric....to participate in a war is to be a barbarian...or face certain defeat.
War sucks......most everyone on the face of the earth would prefer a world without any wars.....ever.
War is a human instinct that has been present more often than not in man's time here on earth....and there will be wars until the end of time.....and war may even cause the end of (our) time.
War is not now or has it ever been dominated by one race/country/people.
You can/should be against it.....hope and pray for peace on earth.......do whatever you can to not support war......but it's reality.....and you must deal.
I don't think this was a revenge situation. It was a try to capture the guy behind 9/11, USS Cole, etc. situation It definitely wasn't a turn the other cheek thing. Dude was dangerous. He was one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world. Presumed armed and VERY dangerous. He knew people were looking for him.
I don't know why you suppose that anyone here was arguing that the invasion of Iraq was justified. It wasn't, obviously.
I can't remember ever seeing one of your posts before. Nice to meet you.
Well said.
I agree with people that war begets war and hate begets hate. But when a nation is attacked the way were on 9/11 a response is necessary. To bad it didn't happen 10 years ago.
Did you see The Buddha on pbs last night?
He said something like: the conqueror will be conquered, the pillager will be pillaged.
It is time for all of this to come to an end.
I do believe it is possible for people to live in a world without war.
Are you basing this on hope or history?
Faith.
I am with you.
According to David Brooks, he was a dilettante who got caught in a fire fight one time and turned that into a myth about being a seasoned guerrilla.
Sort of like David Brooks as a sociologist? Haha.
Nice.
Of course Brooks was not doing any analysis or reporting. He was quoting from a single source. The bin Laden bio that came out a few years ago.
Yeah. Brooks referring to someone else as a dilettante is a joke.
I wont defend Brooks or any other op ed writer, but I like reading him and find him informative at times.
Other right wing writers I like to read are Douthat and George Will.
I like George Will because he uses a lot of big words and reading him makes me feel smart.
Yeah, the fact that he planned 9/11. USS Cole, Khobar Towers, etc., say otherwise, IMO. Maybe David Brooks can do those things and not be "one of the most seasoned guerrilla fighters in the world.", but I doubt it. Or is Brooks saying OBL didn't do those things?
What's the Buddha on PBS? I saw Frontline last night, about the hunt for OBL, is that it? Excuse me ignorance.
Reading Will makes me feel smart, too, since he has a long record of being spectacularly wrong about almost everything.
Douthat's a lightweight and I have no idea why the NYT hired him. This is his finest moment:
"One successful foray ended on the guest bed of a high school friend???s parents, with a girl who resembled a chunkier Reese Witherspoon drunkenly masticating my neck and cheeks. It had taken some time to reach this point??????Do most Harvard guys take so long to get what they want???? she had asked, pushing her tongue into my mouth. I wasn???t sure what to say, but then I wasn???t sure this was what I wanted. My throat was dry from too much vodka, and her breasts, spilling out of pink pajamas, threatened my ability to. I was supposed to be excited, but I was bored and somewhat disgusted with myself, with her, with the whole business??? and then whatever residual enthusiasm I felt for the venture dissipated, with shocking speed, as she nibbled at my ear and whispered??????You know, I???m on the pill???"
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/03/16/worst-penthouse-letter-to-the-editor-ever/
Semantics.
they have their own
Yea. People need to seriously STFU about this. Proper Muslims deserve proper Muslim burials, not him.
All of these things apply to dozens of men around the world, even in our own governments...some say guerrilla, some say terrorist, some say freedom fighter, some say soldier.
If this much effort, money and time was put into capturing others like him, I could believe it was in the name of stopping further damage. It's hard to take the argument of stopping additional murders seriously when so many murders are being committed.
It looks like vengeance to me.
We don't need to agree.
It's not like they pulled his name out a hat and decided, "Let's get that guy!"
I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say here. And what exactly makes you think no effort is being made to find other terrorists?
i think he posts in music threads. could explain the disconnect here.
So do I, when so moved. I posted in the "folk song that KILLS" thread twice last night. I guess you missed that.
Thanks for your concern.
you keep talmbout how only crazies are raising questions about Osama's death (you insisted this when I said we should have held onto the body further up in the thread; you're saying it again here).
I don't know what you read/where you live/who you talk to, but I'm hearing lots of legit questions about the operation from lots of intelligent, normal people.
Well there's a difference between actually being a "seasoned guerrilla fighter" and planning military or quasimilitary attacks. I don't know Brooks' source and probably what I'm suggesting isn't true most of the time, but I'd imagine there are people who've planned successful terrorist attacks who haven't done shit in terms of actually fighting anyone, and I know there are a lot of 'successful' (whatever that means) fighters, in the literal sense, who couldn't plan a fucking birthday party.