Many of us, particularly in ______________where the ___________ attacks occurred, knew someone who was killed, or have friends or acquaintances whose loved ones were killed. Many more worldwide were hurt deeply by __________'s actions. He directly ordered those killings. He had ordered people killed before, and continued to do so afterward. He would continue to do so if left alive.
Answering murder with murder is barbaric.
How about preventing mass murder through the murder of a few?
I'd like to quickly chime in here to say F*CK OSAMA.... toodles!
I think the sea burial was a great decision. Give him a Jim Morrison type grave in Pakistan?? Oh hell no. The conspiracies and rumors will fly for years, but without a memorial... he will eventually have less influence.
How about preventing mass murder through the murder of a few?
Oh, killing Osama and children on Sunday prevented mass murder?
In your predictions of the future can you not see any backlash from murdering him rather than putting him through the american system of justice? Doesn't this act weaken so called american values?
How about preventing mass murder through the murder of a few?
Oh, killing Osama and children on Sunday prevented mass murder?
In your predictions of the future can you not see any backlash from murdering him rather than putting him through the american system of justice? Doesn't this act weaken so called american values?
Many of us, particularly in ______________where the ___________ attacks occurred, knew someone who was killed, or have friends or acquaintances whose loved ones were killed. Many more worldwide were hurt deeply by __________'s actions. He directly ordered those killings. He had ordered people killed before, and continued to do so afterward. He would continue to do so if left alive.
Answering murder with murder is barbaric.
How about preventing mass murder through the murder of a few?
Mass murder has been committed in the name of this prevention.
My point was lost. Any number of places and names can go in those blanks and still hold true.
How about preventing mass murder through the murder of a few?
Oh, killing Osama and children on Sunday prevented mass murder?
In your predictions of the future can you not see any backlash from murdering him rather than putting him through the american system of justice? Doesn't this act weaken so called american values?
If he'd been captured - and remember, he was armed, so that may not even have been possible - then the most likely "future" would have involved an endless series of hostage-takings with the goal of getting him released.
I prefer what actually happened.
So to answer your questions: Yes, Not Really, and No.
If he'd been captured - and remember, he was armed, so that may not even have been possible - then the most likely "future" would have involved an endless series of hostage-takings with the goal of getting him released.
Every report I've seen so far says that three of his sons and one of his wives were killed; none have mentioned prisoners, and the SEALs apparently got the fuck out in a helicopter immediately afterward, so probably no one in custody.
All the reports I've read have also said that in addition to identifying him physically, a woman in the house (prob his wife) gave a positive ID that he was the dude. So, clearly not everyone in the house was killed. Whether anyone was taken into custody is unknown for now.
I'll also add that I sympathize with the mixed feelings in this thread, and while I agree with the fake MLK quote that was all over facebook yesterday, there are limits to the efficacy of non-violence. Sometimes you're faced with an enemy whose goals are clearly stated, and who is straight up armed and ready to kill you. We all know the story of the southern lunch counters, and no doubt there's a place and time for non-violence. Abbottabad on Sunday was not that place.
no doubt there's a place and time for non-violence. Abbottabad on Sunday was not that place.
Sorry, dude, but that's against American values. Turn the other cheek, hug it out, sing We Shall Overcome, and the mass murdering fanatical terrorists will realize we're nice people and go away. Also, I've heard putting your fingers in your ears and saying "LALALALALALALALALA" really loudly solves most other major problems.
I'd say he's already been put through the "american system of justice"
hahaha... very well played!
I think what they did with him was just perfect, including dumping his ass in the sea, all in one swift move. I think this was the best way to dispose off him and making sure there won't be a shrine. (Well, on further thought, this might still happen to his compound)
However, I don't think that this deserves to be celebrated like a sporting event. An evil old man was killed in his house (or even in his bed?). This seems more like a dirty deed that needed to be done much rather than a proud accomplishment and I don't think that this has made any part of this world a safer or a better place.
I hope this has brought some closure or relief to those who were personally affected by Osama's actions and the respect for these people should have kept anybody with half a brain from taking a beachball to the White House in the middle of the night...
I also hope that this will be seen as a chance to pull out of Afghanistan.
If he'd been captured - and remember, he was armed, so that may not even have been possible - then the most likely "future" would have involved an endless series of hostage-takings with the goal of getting him released.
Are you also yawning at the likelihood of hostage-takings?
And this: "However, subsequent briefings by US officials suggest that, when confronted at the high-security complex in Abbottabad, Bin Laden did not have a weapon and did not fire at his assailants. With some questions being raised as to why Bin Laden was shot dead, and whether he was executed, rather than taken into custody, Brennan said: "If we had the opportunity to take Bin Laden alive, if he didn't present any threat, the individuals involved were able and prepared to do that."
Officials have continued to imply he offered resistance before he was shot but have not clarified the extent of that resistance, given that he apparently did not have a weapon. Bin Laden was shot once above the left eye and once in the chest. The Obama administration is considering whether to release photographs of his burial at sea." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-us-changes-story?intcmp=239
The White House seems to be about to release pictures
From CNN???s National Political Correspondent Jessica Yellin
A Senior US Official tells CNN 10 hard drives, 5 computers and more than 100 storage devices which includes discs, DVDs and thumb drives were taken from the compound.
The senior us official also says the White House received 3 sets of photos yesterday. The photos included:
1. Photos of OBLs body at a hangar after he was brought back to Afghanistan. This is the most recognizable with a clear picture of his face. The picture is gruesome because he has a massive open head wound across both eyes. It???s very bloody and gory.
2. Photos from the burial at sea on the USS Carl Vinson. Photos of OBL before the shroud was put on and then wrapped in the shroud.
3. There are photos of the raid itself that include photos of the two dead brothers, one of OBLs dead son (adult adolescent, maybe approx 18 yrs old) and some of the inside scene of the compound.
The official says the challenge is that the picture that includes the most recognizable image of OBLs face ??? from the hangar in Afghanistan ??? is so gruesome and mangled its not appropriate for say the front page of the newspaper. On the other hand, this is the one that is most identifiable as him.
I don't want to see photos of the deceased bin Laden. I understand why others do, but his image has been the face of modern-day terrorism for too long now, and I really don't want to see any part of him any longer.
Maybe it was already mentioned, but it takes a huge coward to use his wife as a shield. I guess when you have that many, they begin to seem disposable. He was a cowardly figure, hiding behind cameras and recordings, too afraid for his own life while he sold so many young men with the idea of martyrdom. I really like that photo of Obama and his posse watching the operation go down.
I don't want to see photos of the deceased bin Laden. I understand why others do, but his image has been the face of modern-day terrorism for too long now, and I really don't want to see any part of him any longer.
Maybe it was already mentioned, but it takes a huge coward to use his wife as a shield. I guess when you have that many, they begin to seem disposable. He was a cowardly figure, hiding behind cameras and recordings, too afraid for his own life while he sold so many young men with the idea of martyrdom. I really like that photo of Obama and his posse watching the operation go down.
the human shield thing has been called into question now that the US has changed their story. check the link that i posted.
Reports seem to suggest they lost a helicopter. Went in with 4 left with 3?
Because they had one less copter it may have made taking any hostages impossible. Maybe.
That may be the reason it they "had to" kill the bin Ladens. Perhaps.
Except... If they had room for his body dead they room alive I would think. So forget I ever posted this.
Reports seem to suggest they lost a helicopter. Went in with 4 left with 3?
Because they had one less copter it may have made taking any hostages impossible. Maybe.
That may be the reason it they "had to" kill the bin Ladens. Perhaps.
Except... If they had room for his body dead they room alive I would think. So forget I ever posted this.
wow, great post, dude! what hostages wtf??
i heard one of the helicopters had a hard landing and was destroyed so that any intelligence on board would not be compromised..
Reports seem to suggest they lost a helicopter. Went in with 4 left with 3?
Because they had one less copter it may have made taking any hostages impossible. Maybe.
That may be the reason it they "had to" kill the bin Ladens. Perhaps.
Except... If they had room for his body dead they room alive I would think. So forget I ever posted this.
wow, great post, dude! what hostages wtf??
i heard one of the helicopters had a hard landing and was destroyed so that any intelligence on board would not be compromised..
Sorry, a lot of thinking out loud there. I was musing on the fact that it seems they took no one into custody. Even though, according to some reports, there were as many as 20 people still in the compound when they left. Should have typed custody/prisoner or some other word besides hostage.
I am still surprised that they left so many people behind (if reports can be believed). I am still wondering why. One less copter could be a reason. What about the other people who were killed? Were their bodies removed? Did they get a burial at sea?
Every report I've seen so far says that three of his sons and one of his wives were killed; none have mentioned prisoners, and the SEALs apparently got the fuck out in a helicopter immediately afterward, so probably no one in custody.
I haven't seen any reports saying three sons were killed. Every one I've seen has said one son and two couriers and a wife.
*Though the latest report is that the woman killed was NOT his wife.
Yeah, the story appears to have been updated to one son and two brothers, unrelated to bin Laden; his (youngest) wife caught a slug in the leg after charging one of the SEALs but is alive.
You would hope they would pick/pre-prepare a story and go with it unilaterally for an event of this magnitude. It's turning into another Roswell. Perhaps he was taken alive and the rest is just smoke and mirrors. I am sure something went down, but I can't understand the about-faces.
You would hope they would pick/pre-prepare a story and go with it unilaterally for an event of this magnitude. It's turning into another Roswell. Perhaps he was taken alive and the rest is just smoke and mirrors. I am sure something went down, but I can't understand the about-faces.
This kind of objection always seems exceptionally silly to me.
"What? They didn't have it scripted up front so there were no ambiguities afterward? Must be a CONSPIRACY!"
Hey, I am glad he's been "Actioned" in whatever circumstances. I don't care about his human rights in this case.
But you can't say one thing one day and then say, hang on, actually this happened, the next day without expecting people to wonder if anyone knows or is telling the truth.
Yet this is what has happened. Surely no-one official should have speculated to the press before the facts had been established.
Comments
How about preventing mass murder through the murder of a few?
I think the sea burial was a great decision. Give him a Jim Morrison type grave in Pakistan?? Oh hell no. The conspiracies and rumors will fly for years, but without a memorial... he will eventually have less influence.
Oh, killing Osama and children on Sunday prevented mass murder?
In your predictions of the future can you not see any backlash from murdering him rather than putting him through the american system of justice? Doesn't this act weaken so called american values?
that was kind of my point too
Mass murder has been committed in the name of this prevention.
My point was lost. Any number of places and names can go in those blanks and still hold true.
If he'd been captured - and remember, he was armed, so that may not even have been possible - then the most likely "future" would have involved an endless series of hostage-takings with the goal of getting him released.
I prefer what actually happened.
So to answer your questions: Yes, Not Really, and No.
BTW, what "children" were killed?
It might have, neither you or I know the answer to that.
No, not at all. Certainly not anymore than the deaths of the hundreds of thousands of others killed in war.
a senior White House official said bin Laden was not armed when he was killed
Yawn.
Sorry, dude, but that's against American values. Turn the other cheek, hug it out, sing We Shall Overcome, and the mass murdering fanatical terrorists will realize we're nice people and go away. Also, I've heard putting your fingers in your ears and saying "LALALALALALALALALA" really loudly solves most other major problems.
hahaha... very well played!
I think what they did with him was just perfect, including dumping his ass in the sea, all in one swift move. I think this was the best way to dispose off him and making sure there won't be a shrine. (Well, on further thought, this might still happen to his compound)
However, I don't think that this deserves to be celebrated like a sporting event. An evil old man was killed in his house (or even in his bed?). This seems more like a dirty deed that needed to be done much rather than a proud accomplishment and I don't think that this has made any part of this world a safer or a better place.
I hope this has brought some closure or relief to those who were personally affected by Osama's actions and the respect for these people should have kept anybody with half a brain from taking a beachball to the White House in the middle of the night...
I also hope that this will be seen as a chance to pull out of Afghanistan.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-us-changes-story?intcmp=239
I hadn't seen that report yet.
Are you also yawning at the likelihood of hostage-takings?
And this: "However, subsequent briefings by US officials suggest that, when confronted at the high-security complex in Abbottabad, Bin Laden did not have a weapon and did not fire at his assailants. With some questions being raised as to why Bin Laden was shot dead, and whether he was executed, rather than taken into custody, Brennan said: "If we had the opportunity to take Bin Laden alive, if he didn't present any threat, the individuals involved were able and prepared to do that."
Officials have continued to imply he offered resistance before he was shot but have not clarified the extent of that resistance, given that he apparently did not have a weapon. Bin Laden was shot once above the left eye and once in the chest. The Obama administration is considering whether to release photographs of his burial at sea."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-us-changes-story?intcmp=239
Maybe it was already mentioned, but it takes a huge coward to use his wife as a shield. I guess when you have that many, they begin to seem disposable. He was a cowardly figure, hiding behind cameras and recordings, too afraid for his own life while he sold so many young men with the idea of martyrdom. I really like that photo of Obama and his posse watching the operation go down.
the human shield thing has been called into question now that the US has changed their story. check the link that i posted.
Because they had one less copter it may have made taking any hostages impossible. Maybe.
That may be the reason it they "had to" kill the bin Ladens. Perhaps.
Except... If they had room for his body dead they room alive I would think. So forget I ever posted this.
wow, great post, dude! what hostages wtf??
i heard one of the helicopters had a hard landing and was destroyed so that any intelligence on board would not be compromised..
Sorry, a lot of thinking out loud there. I was musing on the fact that it seems they took no one into custody. Even though, according to some reports, there were as many as 20 people still in the compound when they left. Should have typed custody/prisoner or some other word besides hostage.
I am still surprised that they left so many people behind (if reports can be believed). I am still wondering why. One less copter could be a reason. What about the other people who were killed? Were their bodies removed? Did they get a burial at sea?
http://www.boingboing.net/2011/05/02/who-is-osama-bin-lad.html
Yeah, the story appears to have been updated to one son and two brothers, unrelated to bin Laden; his (youngest) wife caught a slug in the leg after charging one of the SEALs but is alive.
This kind of objection always seems exceptionally silly to me.
"What? They didn't have it scripted up front so there were no ambiguities afterward? Must be a CONSPIRACY!"
Get real.
But you can't say one thing one day and then say, hang on, actually this happened, the next day without expecting people to wonder if anyone knows or is telling the truth.
Yet this is what has happened. Surely no-one official should have speculated to the press before the facts had been established.