Uh...what? Please to tell me you're not being an apologists for dude.
No, that's definitely not what I'm saying. Shit is beyond fucked up. I'm just wondering how much of the outraged public will berate richards for this and then turn around cosign ironically racist comedians like Silverman or Carlos Mencia.
The public is fucking dumb, until you catch someone doing this red-handed and in an obvious manner "they" will continue going along thinking everything is a-okay.
but yo..fuck Carlos Mencia. That dude is an embarassment and a fucking racist to his own people. What is worse is that a lot of Latinos co-sign on that fucker and aside from George Lopez, he's basically all we got as far as comedic representation.
this is the event that will spark a comeback for him--just watch.
This may very well be a new trend for washed up has been white people in hollywierd. Call some black folks "nigger" publicly then apologize publicly then sit back and watch your career blossom more than ever before.
I almost hate myself for jumping into this one, but the man has fucked up for sure.
I think that there are worse racists in the good old U.S of A though, and focussing so much on what a b-lister has said is probably hurting the real cause of eradicating racism.
That said, how can anyone living in this day and age still talk this shit? I always think that when aliens come to earth, we're all the same to them, regardless of color.
but yo..fuck Carlos Mencia. That dude is an embarassment and a fucking racist to his own people. What is worse is that a lot of Latinos co-sign on that fucker and aside from George Lopez, he's basically all we got as far as comedic representation.
Fuck him, did I mention that?
honestly the only dudes I see ever supporting Mencia are whiteboy frat meatheads. I don't think I've ever met a latin person that was really into this dude.
I'd say it's about context. Dude was just venomous and flipping out, not doing his act.
Who's to say being venemous and flipping out wasn't his act though? Maybe he was aiming for a Silvermanesque approach and just bombed.
Why does poor taste get a pass if the crowd enjoys it? Isn't a racist who entices a room full of people more dangerous than a racist who outrages a room full of people?
Oh, please. Several people in this thread have already publicly made up their minds and have essentially buried the guy.
What is there to 'make their mind' about? It's not like what he did can be construed in any other way than what it is.
sayin'. the fact there's is any type of speculation needed is why I really hate being apart of this place most of the time.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,917 Posts
if he's not a racist prick, let him prove it with his actions.
Oh, please. Several people in this thread have already publicly made up their minds and have essentially buried the guy.
Let him prove with actions? Let him let him.
Well, that's on those "several people". They can think what they want to think, and I'll carry on speaking for myself.
I mean, seriously - what's there to consider here? There's nothing to speculate - he said what he said and was caught on video saying it. It was hardly an unguarded moment, either. So, it then becomes a matter of whether it bothers you or you think it's no big deal and let's move on. If you think people should show more forgiveness, you could try explaining why. Entirely up to you.
I'd say it's about context. Dude was just venomous and flipping out, not doing his act.
Who's to say being venemous and flipping out wasn't his act though? Maybe he was aiming for a Silvermanesque approach and just bombed.
Why does poor taste get a pass if the crowd enjoys it? Isn't a racist who entices a room full of people more dangerous than a racist who outrages a room full of people?
the video kinda shows that dude just flipped out and if he didnt flip out and it was part of an act, don't you think he or someone affiliated with him would have mentioned that already?
this is the event that will spark a comeback for him--just watch.
This may very well be a new trend for washed up has been white people in hollywierd. Call some black folks "nigger" publicly then apologize publicly then sit back and watch your career blossom more than ever before.
side topic: my Girl and I have been watching a whole lot of Sanford & Son & All In The Family lately and it seems that these shows wouldn't even make it past the pitch phase in this day and time.
Have we become so PC that we can't even hear a racist word without automatically looking at it as pure evil?
as a people (Americans) are we getting over-senstive?
I'd say it's about context. Dude was just venomous and flipping out, not doing his act.
Who's to say being venemous and flipping out wasn't his act though? Maybe he was aiming for a Silvermanesque approach and just bombed.
Why does poor taste get a pass if the crowd enjoys it? Isn't a racist who entices a room full of people more dangerous than a racist who outrages a room full of people?
Silverman and Richards haven't said equally racist things so the public reaction to them can't be compared sensibly.
Why does poor taste get a pass if the crowd enjoys it? Isn't a racist who entices a room full of people more dangerous than a racist who outrages a room full of people?
I think I see what you're saying and that's an interesting point. I would think people who reinforce negative aspects of race in their act for shock (Carlos Menso and Sarah Silverback)instead of to spark thought or a dialogue (Sasha Cohen) might be worse in some cases. But if that way of thinking is prevalent in whoever is in the audience it's not gonna matter either way.
Regarless of all that, what he did was no act and he apparently said so himself on Letterman tonight.
Michael Richards publicly apologized for his racist tirade in an appearance on "The Late Show," but acknowledged that such sentiment had the potential to "come[s] through and fire[s] out of me." He tried to find an awkward parallel between his ugly rant and conflict that has arisen between blacks and whites since Hurricane Katrina.
Looking sallow, drawn, and speaking in halting fragments, Richards explained via satellite from Los Angeles to David Letterman and friend Jerry Seinfeld in New York, that he had lost his temper after some members of the audience interrupted his act and that he "took it badly," unleashing the racist invective that TMZ first aired this morning. He apologized to the people who took "the brunt" of his abuse, saying he was "really busted up," but then went on a strange tangent on race relations, saying he was "concerned about hate and rage" and about a "great deal of disturbance between blacks and whites" after Hurricane Katrina.
Richards did not say whether any other factors contributed to his actions, adding only that he would be doing "personal work" in the aftermath of the incident.
Audience members in the Ed Sullivan Theater, who were watching Richards on a screen, began laughing at Richards at first, thinking that the interview was a comedy skit, until Seinfeld admonished them, saying, "Stop laughing. It's not funny."
Why does poor taste get a pass if the crowd enjoys it? Isn't a racist who entices a room full of people more dangerous than a racist who outrages a room full of people?
I think I see what you're saying and that's an interesting point. I would think people who reinforce negative aspects of race in their act for shock instead of to spark thought or a dialogue (Sasha Cohen) might be worse in some cases (see Carlos Menso and Sarah Silverback). I think that if that way of thinking is already there in whoever is in the audience it's not gonna matter if either way.
Regarless of all that, what he did was no act and he apparently said so himself on Letterman tonight.
I may argue that we should be more thoughtful on all this, but your last point really nails the crux of the last page or so. Discussions of offensive comedy are one thing are interesting, but not really pertinent here. This wasn't an act so much as a meltdown.
For what he said, fuck him; there is NO excuse for that. But, I ain't about to hang the man. He is human and flawed- no news flash there. Let's see where he goes from here, and let's try to rise above reveling in one man's humiliation and downfall. If that is what this place is gonna be, I might as well log off and tune into Access: Hollywood or Extra, complete with our special race correspondant, ODub.
From what I've seen, the whole Gibson shit has now blown over to the point where people are shoulder-shruggin' it off like no biggie.
Do people really think this is true? If so, why, because it's no longer headline news?
When I saw Borat in a Berkeley theater only a few weeks ago they had a preview for Gibson's new movie. When his name appeared on screen he was loudly booed so I don't think the entire population is shrugging it off. Still, what else can they do? Mounting a boycott of his film will only give it free press.
if he's not a racist prick, let him prove it with his actions.
Oh, please. Several people in this thread have already publicly made up their minds and have essentially buried the guy.
Let him prove with actions? Let him let him.
Well, that's on those "several people". They can think what they want to think, and I'll carry on speaking for myself.
I mean, seriously - what's there to consider here? There's nothing to speculate - he said what he said and was caught on video saying it. It was hardly an unguarded moment, either. So, it then becomes a matter of whether it bothers you or you think it's no big deal and let's move on. If you think people should show more forgiveness, you could try explaining why. Entirely up to you.
I think you missed my point.
Forgiveness isn't about letting this slide as no big deal: We all agree that what he said is wrong. Rather, it's about giving this guy a chance to redeem himself in spite of what he did. I think that's greater than condemning him. Call me a Christian (I am).
There's no excuse for what he did, but by no means is this an unforgivable act.
if he's not a racist prick, let him prove it with his actions.
Oh, please. Several people in this thread have already publicly made up their minds and have essentially buried the guy.
Let him prove with actions? Let him let him.
Well, that's on those "several people". They can think what they want to think, and I'll carry on speaking for myself.
I mean, seriously - what's there to consider here? There's nothing to speculate - he said what he said and was caught on video saying it. It was hardly an unguarded moment, either. So, it then becomes a matter of whether it bothers you or you think it's no big deal and let's move on. If you think people should show more forgiveness, you could try explaining why. Entirely up to you.
I think you missed my point.
Forgiveness isn't about letting this slide as no big deal: We all agree that what he said is wrong. Rather, it's about giving this guy a chance to redeem himself in spite of what he did. I think that's greater than condemning him. Call me a Christian (I am).
There's no excuse for what he did, but by no means is this an unforgivable act.
Fuck this dude. Why are you behaving as if he deserves another chance? It's not as if he's being executed or sentenced to life imprisonment. Let him continue to fade from the public eye and be an occasional punchline... that's where he was going anyway. Nobody "deserves" fame or employment as a professional comedian, this guy even less than most. You really need to find a more worthy cause.
All depends on what is meant by 'forgiveness'. Obviously reasonable people are not calling for him to be jailed or what have you, but many people have long memories behind stuff like this. Not everyone, but a LOT of people will be "FUCK HIM" forever, trust me.
He'll have to come up with some comedy people really can't live without for it to translate into being 'commercially' forgivable. And based on his track record so far...hmmm...not likely.
if he's not a racist prick, let him prove it with his actions.
Oh, please. Several people in this thread have already publicly made up their minds and have essentially buried the guy.
Let him prove with actions? Let him let him.
Well, that's on those "several people". They can think what they want to think, and I'll carry on speaking for myself.
I mean, seriously - what's there to consider here? There's nothing to speculate - he said what he said and was caught on video saying it. It was hardly an unguarded moment, either. So, it then becomes a matter of whether it bothers you or you think it's no big deal and let's move on. If you think people should show more forgiveness, you could try explaining why. Entirely up to you.
I think you missed my point.
Forgiveness isn't about letting this slide as no big deal: We all agree that what he said is wrong. Rather, it's about giving this guy a chance to redeem himself in spite of what he did. I think that's greater than condemning him. Call me a Christian (I am).
There's no excuse for what he did, but by no means is this an unforgivable act.
Fuck this dude. Why are you behaving as if he deserves another chance? It's not as if he's being executed or sentenced to life imprisonment. Let him continue to fade from the public eye and be an occasional punchline... that's where he was going anyway. Nobody "deserves" fame or employment as a professional comedian, this guy even less than most. You really need to find a more worthy cause.
Whatever. I'm not the one advancing crackpot theories about him rising from the ashes of racism.
You're the last person I'd want to give me advice on forgiveness, considering your status as SoulStrut's largest block of salt.
Maybe you can point out where I said he deserves continued, lucrative employment?
And I could care less if he becomes a punchline--that's what you get for being a racist piece of shit. But he deserves forgiveness and a chance to redeem himself through changing his ways.
I think I see what you're saying and that's an interesting point. I would think people who reinforce negative aspects of race in their act for shock (Carlos Menso and Sarah Silverback)instead of to spark thought or a dialogue (Sasha Cohen) might be worse in some cases. But if that way of thinking is prevalent in whoever is in the audience it's not gonna matter either way.
There were a hell of a lot of people who didn't think that Sasha Cohen was sparking a dialogue when he first appeared as Ali G. Comedy isn't universal.
But he deserves forgiveness and a chance to redeem himself through changing his ways.
how is this properly forgiven? does each member of the audience need to contact him and express their forgiveness? does every person who heard about the incident and was offended need to do the same thing also? the only way a piece of shit like this will be forgiven by the "general public" is if he does something about it beyond a half-assed apology attached to a bizzare katrina excuse which i honestly doubt he will do.
Clearly, we're getting way off the original topic of the thread but hey, I'm game to play this out:
What you're saying is that if Tom Cruise is no longer the #1 box office king, that equals a dead career? That's seems like a pretty high bar to set...does that mean anyone who once was #1 but is no longer, by definition, has a moribund career?
Cruise couldn't have stayed on top forever - as he got older, there was simply bound to be someone who was going to become more popular than he was, even if he never acted like an idiot.
That wouldn't have meant his career was effectively dead. Cruise's MI3 didn't pull an Heaven's Gate. It underperformed substantially but we're talking about one film. He's made bumbles before (what was that shitty racing film, he did?) only to come back on top. SO I think it remains to be seen how badly Cruise has hurt himself by acting like an ass.
Personally, I HOPE you're actually right Paul. I'm not rooting for Tom. But I think it's too early to know how permanent the damage is.
I agree. Let's see if either of us have memories good enough to come back to this in a year or three. MI3 (which I thought was actually the best film in the series) did not pull a Heaven's Gate. But it did, along with his behavior, get him booted from Paramount. That's some pretty unprecedented shit right there. Of course he's not gonna fall completely off the map just like that. But I do predict a Stallone-like death to the point where eventually he'll be counting on overseas markets to make his $$$. It might take a few films or a few years - which ever comes first. But I truly believe his trip to the bottom of the hill has only just begun.
He could contact the people he was saying racist shit to and apologize to them; he could publicly announce his regrets, embarrassment, and sorrow over saying racist shit and ask for forgiveness and a second chance; he could dump some of those megachecks into an organization that fights racism and intolerance.
If he doesn't change his ways with sincerity, fuck him.
if he's not a racist prick, let him prove it with his actions.
Oh, please. Several people in this thread have already publicly made up their minds and have essentially buried the guy.
Let him prove with actions? Let him let him.
Well, that's on those "several people". They can think what they want to think, and I'll carry on speaking for myself.
I mean, seriously - what's there to consider here? There's nothing to speculate - he said what he said and was caught on video saying it. It was hardly an unguarded moment, either. So, it then becomes a matter of whether it bothers you or you think it's no big deal and let's move on. If you think people should show more forgiveness, you could try explaining why. Entirely up to you.
I think you missed my point.
Forgiveness isn't about letting this slide as no big deal: We all agree that what he said is wrong. Rather, it's about giving this guy a chance to redeem himself in spite of what he did. I think that's greater than condemning him. Call me a Christian (I am).
There's no excuse for what he did, but by no means is this an unforgivable act.
Fuck this dude. Why are you behaving as if he deserves another chance? It's not as if he's being executed or sentenced to life imprisonment. Let him continue to fade from the public eye and be an occasional punchline... that's where he was going anyway. Nobody "deserves" fame or employment as a professional comedian, this guy even less than most. You really need to find a more worthy cause.
Whatever. I'm not the one advancing crackpot theories about him rising from the ashes of racism.
You're the last person I'd want to give me advice on forgiveness, considering your status as SoulStrut's largest block of salt.
Maybe you can point out where I said he deserves continued, lucrative employment?
And I could care less if he becomes a punchline--that's what you get for being a racist piece of shit. But he deserves forgiveness and a chance to redeem himself through changing his ways.
LOL @ him "deserving forgiveness and a chance to redeem himself"
What kind of "chance" would that be? Continued public exposure so we can see whether he says more racist schitt or sobs and expresses "sincere" phlegmy regret?
I can't believe anyone would so exercise themselves in the interests of a single common racist. You must have some soft spot for Seinfeld.
Comments
The public is fucking dumb, until you catch someone doing this red-handed and in an obvious manner "they" will continue going along thinking everything is a-okay.
but yo..fuck Carlos Mencia. That dude is an embarassment and a fucking racist to his own people. What is worse is that a lot of Latinos co-sign on that fucker and aside from George Lopez, he's basically all we got as far as comedic representation.
Fuck him, did I mention that?
This may very well be a new trend for washed up has been white people in hollywierd. Call some black folks "nigger" publicly then apologize publicly then sit back and watch your career blossom more than ever before.
What is there to 'make their mind' about? It's not like what he did can be construed in any other way than what it is.
I think that there are worse racists in the good old U.S of A though, and focussing so much on what a b-lister has said is probably hurting the real cause of eradicating racism.
That said, how can anyone living in this day and age still talk this shit? I always think that when aliens come to earth, we're all the same to them, regardless of color.
honestly the only dudes I see ever supporting Mencia are whiteboy frat meatheads. I don't think I've ever met a latin person that was really into this dude.
Maybe I'm traveling in the right circles though
Who's to say being venemous and flipping out wasn't his act though? Maybe he was aiming for a Silvermanesque approach and just bombed.
Why does poor taste get a pass if the crowd enjoys it? Isn't a racist who entices a room full of people more dangerous than a racist who outrages a room full of people?
sayin'. the fact there's is any type of speculation needed is why I really hate being apart of this place most of the time.
Well, that's on those "several people". They can think what they want to think, and I'll carry on speaking for myself.
I mean, seriously - what's there to consider here? There's nothing to speculate - he said what he said and was caught on video saying it. It was hardly an unguarded moment, either. So, it then becomes a matter of whether it bothers you or you think it's no big deal and let's move on. If you think people should show more forgiveness, you could try explaining why. Entirely up to you.
side topic: my Girl and I have been watching a whole lot of Sanford & Son & All In The Family lately and it seems that these shows wouldn't even make it past the pitch phase in this day and time.
Have we become so PC that we can't even hear a racist word without automatically looking at it as pure evil?
as a people (Americans) are we getting over-senstive?
How do you people feel about this:
and just what do you mean by you people[/b] ?!?!
JK dude...
I think I see what you're saying and that's an interesting point. I would think people who reinforce negative aspects of race in their act for shock (Carlos Menso and Sarah Silverback)instead of to spark thought or a dialogue (Sasha Cohen) might be worse in some cases. But if that way of thinking is prevalent in whoever is in the audience it's not gonna matter either way.
Regarless of all that, what he did was no act and he apparently said so himself on Letterman tonight.
I may argue that we should be more thoughtful on all this, but your last point really nails the crux of the last page or so. Discussions of offensive comedy are one thing are interesting, but not really pertinent here. This wasn't an act so much as a meltdown.
For what he said, fuck him; there is NO excuse for that. But, I ain't about to hang the man. He is human and flawed- no news flash there. Let's see where he goes from here, and let's try to rise above reveling in one man's humiliation and downfall. If that is what this place is gonna be, I might as well log off and tune into Access: Hollywood or Extra, complete with our special race correspondant, ODub.
where is my Mary Hart
and yes, bringing up katrina sounds like something his publicist cooked up...
When I saw Borat in a Berkeley theater only a few weeks ago they had a preview for Gibson's new movie. When his name appeared on screen he was loudly booed so I don't think the entire population is shrugging it off. Still, what else can they do? Mounting a boycott of his film will only give it free press.
I think you missed my point.
Forgiveness isn't about letting this slide as no big deal: We all agree that what he said is wrong. Rather, it's about giving this guy a chance to redeem himself in spite of what he did. I think that's greater than condemning him. Call me a Christian (I am).
There's no excuse for what he did, but by no means is this an unforgivable act.
Fuck this dude. Why are you behaving as if he deserves another chance? It's not as if he's being executed or sentenced to life imprisonment. Let him continue to fade from the public eye and be an occasional punchline... that's where he was going anyway. Nobody "deserves" fame or employment as a professional comedian, this guy even less than most. You really need to find a more worthy cause.
All depends on what is meant by 'forgiveness'. Obviously reasonable people are not calling for him to be jailed or what have you, but many people have long memories behind stuff like this. Not everyone, but a LOT of people will be "FUCK HIM" forever, trust me.
He'll have to come up with some comedy people really can't live without for it to translate into being 'commercially' forgivable. And based on his track record so far...hmmm...not likely.
Whatever. I'm not the one advancing crackpot theories about him rising from the ashes of racism.
You're the last person I'd want to give me advice on forgiveness, considering your status as SoulStrut's largest block of salt.
Maybe you can point out where I said he deserves continued, lucrative employment?
And I could care less if he becomes a punchline--that's what you get for being a racist piece of shit. But he deserves forgiveness and a chance to redeem himself through changing his ways.
There were a hell of a lot of people who didn't think that Sasha Cohen was sparking a dialogue when he first appeared as Ali G. Comedy isn't universal.
But what Richards said is clearly fucked up.
I agree. Let's see if either of us have memories good enough to come back to this in a year or three.
MI3 (which I thought was actually the best film in the series) did not pull a Heaven's Gate.
But it did, along with his behavior, get him booted from Paramount.
That's some pretty unprecedented shit right there.
Of course he's not gonna fall completely off the map just like that.
But I do predict a Stallone-like death to the point where eventually he'll be counting on overseas markets to make his $$$.
It might take a few films or a few years - which ever comes first.
But I truly believe his trip to the bottom of the hill has only just begun.
If he doesn't change his ways with sincerity, fuck him.
"You better make amends so that Sienfeld DVD box set sells!"
LOL @ him "deserving forgiveness and a chance to redeem himself"
What kind of "chance" would that be? Continued public exposure so we can see whether he says more racist schitt or sobs and expresses "sincere" phlegmy regret?
I can't believe anyone would so exercise themselves in the interests of a single common racist. You must have some soft spot for Seinfeld.