[color:white]I have been trying to tell you guys all along that McNulty does NOT get got. The script pages of the "lost" final scene, published on Slate at the beginning of the season said as much.[/color]
Had mixed feelings about the jail scene with Marlo, Chris, and Monk. It's strange that Marlo was oblivious that Omar was calling him out in the streets. After all, Omar capped a bunch of Marlo's guys and shut down his dope houses. Are we to believe that Chris intentionally concealed this from Marlo? But it was good to see Marlo show some rage. Dude is facing a 20-plus year bid and still pissy that Omar called him out.
this scene was funny because it would never have happened, no way in a bust that big would all the people brought in, especially the major players be sitting in the same room together discussing the case...
It could be a new tactic.
"Hey, I know, let's give them time to get their stories straight before we interview them..."
this scene was funny because it would never have happened, no way in a bust that big would all the people brought in, especially the major players be sitting in the same room together discussing the case...
Yeah. In all seriousness, I think this season really suffers at a few points by being stuffed into fewer episodes. This is one of them. I also find it unbelievable that after Marlo & crew were so tight-lipped, they'd just start blabbing..... in a HOLDING PEN. The show doesn't have enough screen time to let the story play out properly, so they take some shortcuts.
I think the brief presence of Bunny was a foreshadowing of how this next scandal plays out. There's not really any other reason to bring him in. Carcetti said to him, "there wasn't anything anyone could have done with that" (re: legalization of drugs). I think this means that Carcetti is on the way out.
I didn't quite look at this the same way - I thought it was more of a moral lesson from Simon, saying that if you can't reform drugs from the inside (Bell) or from the outside (Colvin) then there's truly, "Nothing to be done". That phrase is a refrain from Waiting For Godot, a sort of throwing up of the hands. All we can do, according to Simon, is try to raise these kids - which, in this scene, is the clear solution provided. Namond is taken off the corner not through policework or jail time, but through parenting.
Astute reading of it as a moral lesson. I like and agree. At other points (Namond's mother, Randy getting sent to a home) Simon has pointed the finger at the parents.
I don't agree with oliver here. I still think there is some meaning here for the final episode. This isn't like Nick Sobatka randomly turning up.
Many people could have run into Bunny and Namond to make the same point above. But the Mayor? He and Bunny weren't exactly close. So I think it also poses the question, what will Carcetti do in the similar crisis situation which is opon him?
Bunny was very insistent about taking the heat for the entire Hamsterdam incident. It's clear from the preview that Carcetti has no such plans and expects underlings to "drop on their swords." He's been getting cocky, has to defend himself as an incumbent against new blood, spread himself too thin, and pushed hard on the (now debunked) serial killer probe. Given his tenuous position, I think it's highly unlikely anybody will offer to take a bite of that shit sandwich, especially because they have little incentive to.
City of Baltimore needs to sell some of that dope up the East Coast, presto! No more budget crisis.
Was it just me or in the previews did Pryzbylewski-with-a-beard look a little like Ahmadinejad?
I want to see at least one undercover detective who's been dressing up as homeless for a few weeks when he finds out the whole thing was "some McNulty schitt."
Any bets on Randy showing up in the finale? I was thinking they would have done something with the potential Cheese connection, but maybe that was mere speculation, no, make that fan fiction.
Speaking of fan fiction, I am currently dreaming up a spin-off show all about Avon and Wee-Bey running things and eating take-out food in prison.
When it ends, they might have to set up one of those counselling hotlines, like they did when 'New Kids On The Block' split up, so all the distraught fanboys can phone up and be reassured that Dookie's going to be alright really.
So it's pretty clear the season was something of a let-down, and received mixed reviews from the press, the fans, and the skreets.
Does Simon get an exit interview?
Well at least the season's ending on some "daaaamn" schitt, excitement. I doubt I'd ever want to go back and watch the early Season 5 episodes again, wheras I will all the other seasons.
Exit interview?
If I was David Simon I would
You ain't David Simon mafukka!
alright, but he needs to make some spin-off shows. For example:
I don't agree with oliver here. I still think there is some meaning here for the final episode. This isn't like Nick Sobatka randomly turning up.
I'm not saying it's meaningless or message-less. I think what it does is a few things:
1) It shows that Carcetti realizes that he fucked over Bunny and that - as a good guy underneath all the political bullshit - he's trying to "do the right thing" by at least owning up to it (albeit in a half-assed way). Hence, why he got the Colvin
2) And I think the moment is meaningful in terms of Carcetti spots Colvin in the middle of basically making a stump speech and that, here he is, trying to spin a story and then he looks across the lawn, and here is someone who was a victim, in some ways, of Carcetti's past spin. So it is a way - as you were suggesting - to link Carcetti's current political moment to one in the past, of showing what comes around, goes around, of Carcetti displaying a little bit of humility.
What I disagree with you is that this need to be a direct premonition of something in EP60. Carcetti is running into massive problems regardless of whether Bunny cameos or not. He's turning into the exact opposite kind of politician he hoped to be when he ran his mayoral campaign and steadily, us - as the audience - and his character are coming to realize this, though I think we're a few steps ahead of him.
I'm not sure what Carcetti's ultimate denouement will be turn out to be and I don't think it will involve Bunny - certainly not directly, probably not indirectly. Colvin's cameo was a moment, like Poot trying to school Dukie was a moment. It's not part of a larger chain of events.
I don't agree with oliver here. I still think there is some meaning here for the final episode. This isn't like Nick Sobatka randomly turning up.
I'm not saying it's meaningless or message-less. I think what it does is a few things:
1) It shows that Carcetti realizes that he fucked over Bunny and that - as a good guy underneath all the political bullshit - he's trying to "do the right thing" by at least owning up to it (albeit in a half-assed way). Hence, why he got the Colvin
2) And I think the moment is meaningful in terms of Carcetti spots Colvin in the middle of basically making a stump speech and that, here he is, trying to spin a story and then he looks across the lawn, and here is someone who was a victim, in some ways, of Carcetti's past spin. So it is a way - as you were suggesting - to link Carcetti's current political moment to one in the past, of showing what comes around, goes around, of Carcetti displaying a little bit of humility.
What I disagree with you is that this need to be a direct premonition of something in EP60. Carcetti is running into massive problems regardless of whether Bunny cameos or not. He's turning into the exact opposite kind of politician he hoped to be when he ran his mayoral campaign and steadily, us - as the audience - and his character are coming to realize this, though I think we're a few steps ahead of him.
I'm not sure what Carcetti's ultimate denouement will be turn out to be and I don't think it will involve Bunny - certainly not directly, probably not indirectly. Colvin's cameo was a moment, like Poot trying to school Dukie was a moment. It's not part of a larger chain of events.
All cool. We can disagree on what the subtext of the meeting is. You said "There doesn't have to be a larger logic besides tying up character threads" so that's what I was reacting to. Like you describe, there's a little bit more going on than just an episode of "where are they now."
1. Ah, I'd take the opposite tact and say that this isn't showing how Carcetti's a "good guy underneath all the political bullshit." His apology was half-assed and shows exactly when he will be honest and humble: when nothing is on the line. This is why he's a good politician. The new Carcetti is obsessed with his image, what networks his speeches get played on, and who is trying to usurp him.
And if there's any message the Wire has about power, it's that it's only temporary.... oh sorry, maybe I just want the guy to fall
2. I'm not saying this brief Bunny cameo will cause anything to directly happen to Carcetti or that the two are directly related. I was saying it's foreshadowing. Throughout the wire characters interact with each other and timelines overlap with each other for dramatic effect, and I enjoy that subtlety.
So will episode 60 be on On Demand a week early just like the other episodes? I hope not, being that it's the last episode of the series, but if it is, I sure as hell know I'm not waiting for air time...
[color:white]I have been trying to tell you guys all along that McNulty does NOT get got. The script pages of the "lost" final scene, published on Slate at the beginning of the season said as much.[/color]
So will episode 60 be on On Demand a week early just like the other episodes? I hope not, being that it's the last episode of the series, but if it is, I sure as hell know I'm not waiting for air time...
being that I always get to watch this shit at least a week behind everyone else, having missed the flow of the main discussion, I just wanted to add that I honestly find the serial killer storyline that a few people have denounced as ruining this series to be LESS ridiculous than that hamsterdam thing in series 3. I can at least imagine an obsessed cop faking up some shit to try and crack what they see as the most important case in their whole city whereas hamsterdam was just plain fruity to me.
being that I always get to watch this shit at least a week behind everyone else, having missed the flow of the main discussion, I just wanted to add that I honestly find the serial killer storyline that a few people have denounced as ruining this series to be LESS ridiculous than that hamsterdam thing in series 3. I can at least imagine an obsessed cop faking up some shit to try and crack what they see as the most important case in their whole city whereas hamsterdam was just plain fruity to me.
please. continue.
Disagree. Legalizing drugs seems a lot less insane than faking a serial killer but maybe that's just me.
being that I always get to watch this shit at least a week behind everyone else, having missed the flow of the main discussion, I just wanted to add that I honestly find the serial killer storyline that a few people have denounced as ruining this series to be LESS ridiculous than that hamsterdam thing in series 3. I can at least imagine an obsessed cop faking up some shit to try and crack what they see as the most important case in their whole city whereas hamsterdam was just plain fruity to me.
please. continue.
Disagree. Legalizing drugs seems a lot less insane than faking a serial killer but maybe that's just me.
I mean... it's a more plausible idea... but running an openly legalized drug zone in three different locations of several blocks each, in a big American city?
being that I always get to watch this shit at least a week behind everyone else, having missed the flow of the main discussion, I just wanted to add that I honestly find the serial killer storyline that a few people have denounced as ruining this series to be LESS ridiculous than that hamsterdam thing in series 3. I can at least imagine an obsessed cop faking up some shit to try and crack what they see as the most important case in their whole city whereas hamsterdam was just plain fruity to me.
please. continue.
Disagree. Legalizing drugs seems a lot less insane than faking a serial killer but maybe that's just me.
I'm a DVD watcher, and therefore always a week behind, but since all the YouTube comments on the prequels gave away a lot of spoilers, I jumped into this thread.
Anyway, I thought the Hamsterdam stuff was impeccably handled, and one of my favorite storylines The Wire ever takled. I think it was a great illustration of how little people in government/police higher-ups actually care about the people they represent, and that they really only care about their jobs; politics writ large.
You know I thought it was a good plot device, and well written... but where exactly does this "realism" critique go, and what does it serve?
The realism of this show is the depth of characters - not the plausibility of the plot, per se. As we peel off layers of plot there are inconsistencies, implausibilities, and urban fantasies aplenty. There are certainly holes to be poked. Kurt Schmoke advocated drug legalization but the idea that there could be a real life Hamsterdam is extremely far-fetched. Even if, on screen, it appears believable.
Simon gets a lot right, moreso than most TV shows.... but this is not "reality". It's TV. Damn good TV. I don't think we - especially, you know, us - should be attempting to critique it's realism as it pertains to the drug game, the hood, the streets, etc.
You know I thought it was a good plot device, and well written... but where exactly does this "realism" critique go, and what does it serve?
The realism of this show is the depth of characters - not the plausibility of the plot, per se. As we peel off layers of plot there are inconsistencies, implausibilities, and urban fantasies aplenty. There are certainly holes to be poked. Kurt Schmoke advocated drug legalization but the idea that there could be a real life Hamsterdam is extremely far-fetched. Even if, on screen, it appears believable.
Simon gets a lot right, moreso than most TV shows.... but this is not "reality". It's TV. Damn good TV. I don't think we - especially, you know, us - should be attempting to critique it's realism as it pertains to the drug game, the hood, the streets, etc.
Yeah, part of my point of Hamsterdam being "less insane" is that I think what McNulty and Freamon are doing is completely out of character.
I should add that Bowden dissects that "realistic vs. real" thing as well in that Atlantic Monthly piece from a few months. A good read for those who haven't gotten to it yet: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/bowden-wire
And yeah--just finished ep. 59. It's going to be so bittersweet to see the fall of the Templeton/McNulty charade. Very interested about the courtroom insider and/or whether Levy can link Marlo's number back to Herc...but maybe that's irrelevant now that the evidence might get chucked?
finally watched this and all I can say is that I am basically the Nostradomus of this:
I'm saying. Chris get's hauled in along with Marlo. The cops start showing them how much evidence they have. Marlo gets nervous and orders Snoop to eliminate the possibly-unreliable Mikey. Mikey shoots Snoop instead.
I'd put that on my A-1s.
ROOTLESSCOSMO VINDICATED.
really though a sad, sad episode. I thought Kima's snitchery was unrealistic also.
Comments
[color:white]I have been trying to tell you guys all along that McNulty does NOT get got. The script pages of the "lost" final scene, published on Slate at the beginning of the season said as much.[/color]
Read for yourself
It could be a new tactic.
"Hey, I know, let's give them time to get their stories straight before we interview them..."
I'm not a legal expert, but don't they have to be notified of what they're accused of?
I've never been on either side of that scenario though, so I will defer to rael headz that do indeed know the dealz.
Yeah. In all seriousness, I think this season really suffers at a few points by being stuffed into fewer episodes. This is one of them. I also find it unbelievable that after Marlo & crew were so tight-lipped, they'd just start blabbing..... in a HOLDING PEN. The show doesn't have enough screen time to let the story play out properly, so they take some shortcuts.
Astute reading of it as a moral lesson. I like and agree. At other points (Namond's mother, Randy getting sent to a home) Simon has pointed the finger at the parents.
I don't agree with oliver here. I still think there is some meaning here for the final episode. This isn't like Nick Sobatka randomly turning up.
Many people could have run into Bunny and Namond to make the same point above. But the Mayor? He and Bunny weren't exactly close. So I think it also poses the question, what will Carcetti do in the similar crisis situation which is opon him?
Bunny was very insistent about taking the heat for the entire Hamsterdam incident. It's clear from the preview that Carcetti has no such plans and expects underlings to "drop on their swords." He's been getting cocky, has to defend himself as an incumbent against new blood, spread himself too thin, and pushed hard on the (now debunked) serial killer probe. Given his tenuous position, I think it's highly unlikely anybody will offer to take a bite of that shit sandwich, especially because they have little incentive to.
City of Baltimore needs to sell some of that dope up the East Coast, presto! No more budget crisis.
Was it just me or in the previews did Pryzbylewski-with-a-beard look a little like Ahmadinejad?
I want to see at least one undercover detective who's been dressing up as homeless for a few weeks when he finds out the whole thing was "some McNulty schitt."
Any bets on Randy showing up in the finale? I was thinking they would have done something with the potential Cheese connection, but maybe that was mere speculation, no, make that fan fiction.
Speaking of fan fiction, I am currently dreaming up a spin-off show all about Avon and Wee-Bey running things and eating take-out food in prison.
When it ends, they might have to set up one of those counselling hotlines, like they did when 'New Kids On The Block' split up, so all the distraught fanboys can phone up and be reassured that Dookie's going to be alright really.
Does Simon get an exit interview?
Well at least the season's ending on some "daaaamn" schitt, excitement.
I doubt I'd ever want to go back and watch the early Season 5 episodes again, wheras I will all the other seasons.
Exit interview?
If I was David Simon I would
You ain't David Simon mafukka!
alright, but he needs to make some spin-off shows. For example:
Bubbles and Dukie[/b]
DAVID SIMON VINDICATED!
I'm not saying it's meaningless or message-less. I think what it does is a few things:
1) It shows that Carcetti realizes that he fucked over Bunny and that - as a good guy underneath all the political bullshit - he's trying to "do the right thing" by at least owning up to it (albeit in a half-assed way). Hence, why he got the Colvin
2) And I think the moment is meaningful in terms of Carcetti spots Colvin in the middle of basically making a stump speech and that, here he is, trying to spin a story and then he looks across the lawn, and here is someone who was a victim, in some ways, of Carcetti's past spin. So it is a way - as you were suggesting - to link Carcetti's current political moment to one in the past, of showing what comes around, goes around, of Carcetti displaying a little bit of humility.
What I disagree with you is that this need to be a direct premonition of something in EP60. Carcetti is running into massive problems regardless of whether Bunny cameos or not. He's turning into the exact opposite kind of politician he hoped to be when he ran his mayoral campaign and steadily, us - as the audience - and his character are coming to realize this, though I think we're a few steps ahead of him.
I'm not sure what Carcetti's ultimate denouement will be turn out to be and I don't think it will involve Bunny - certainly not directly, probably not indirectly. Colvin's cameo was a moment, like Poot trying to school Dukie was a moment. It's not part of a larger chain of events.
All cool. We can disagree on what the subtext of the meeting is. You said "There doesn't have to be a larger logic besides tying up character threads" so that's what I was reacting to. Like you describe, there's a little bit more going on than just an episode of "where are they now."
1. Ah, I'd take the opposite tact and say that this isn't showing how Carcetti's a "good guy underneath all the political bullshit." His apology was half-assed and shows exactly when he will be honest and humble: when nothing is on the line. This is why he's a good politician. The new Carcetti is obsessed with his image, what networks his speeches get played on, and who is trying to usurp him.
And if there's any message the Wire has about power, it's that it's only temporary.... oh sorry, maybe I just want the guy to fall
2. I'm not saying this brief Bunny cameo will cause anything to directly happen to Carcetti or that the two are directly related. I was saying it's foreshadowing. Throughout the wire characters interact with each other and timelines overlap with each other for dramatic effect, and I enjoy that subtlety.
You do realize that script was a joke, right? Making in-jokes about the Wire, McNulty & Bunk.
http://www.hbo.com/apps/hodschedule/hod/details.do?FID=PMRS136717
march 4th will have to fill in for my thirst for suspense-quencher
will snoop and omar be on better terms in the assassin afterlife?
please. continue.
Disagree. Legalizing drugs seems a lot less insane than faking a serial killer but maybe that's just me.
I mean... it's a more plausible idea... but running an openly legalized drug zone in three different locations of several blocks each, in a big American city?
That's a stretch.
I'm a DVD watcher, and therefore always a week behind, but since all the YouTube comments on the prequels gave away a lot of spoilers, I jumped into this thread.
Anyway, I thought the Hamsterdam stuff was impeccably handled, and one of my favorite storylines The Wire ever takled. I think it was a great illustration of how little people in government/police higher-ups actually care about the people they represent, and that they really only care about their jobs; politics writ large.
The realism of this show is the depth of characters - not the plausibility of the plot, per se. As we peel off layers of plot there are inconsistencies, implausibilities, and urban fantasies aplenty. There are certainly holes to be poked. Kurt Schmoke advocated drug legalization but the idea that there could be a real life Hamsterdam is extremely far-fetched. Even if, on screen, it appears believable.
Simon gets a lot right, moreso than most TV shows.... but this is not "reality". It's TV. Damn good TV. I don't think we - especially, you know, us - should be attempting to critique it's realism as it pertains to the drug game, the hood, the streets, etc.
Yeah, part of my point of Hamsterdam being "less insane" is that I think what McNulty and Freamon are doing is completely out of character.
It's usually fruit cart peddlers, not junk haulers, but yeah:
more:
http://bridlepath.wordpress.com/2007/02/06/the-arabbers-of-baltimore/
And yeah--just finished ep. 59. It's going to be so bittersweet to see the fall of the Templeton/McNulty charade. Very interested about the courtroom insider and/or whether Levy can link Marlo's number back to Herc...but maybe that's irrelevant now that the evidence might get chucked?
ROOTLESSCOSMO VINDICATED.
really though a sad, sad episode. I thought Kima's snitchery was unrealistic also.