It's a pretty weak crutch to lean on far as plot goes. To me it just screamed that they needed McNulty to get caught, but couldn't figure out who was going to do the snitching. In my gut I think these corny plot twists would be resolved in a less jarring manner if they had a full season to work with. The transition from buddy-Kima to goodnight-moon-Kima was CORNY. Maybe if there was some proper development I could see it. Now that Marlo's arrested I think even Bunk would be a more convincing snitch. Well, I guess that's not too plausible given how deep he's in, but he's been threatening since the beginning, and had a falling out with McNulty over it.
so, next week there will be two half hour recap specials?
Is the 90 minute finale confirmed? Or is it 60?
In other news....
According to Dominic West, some of the cast members of 'The Wire' (namely, Wendell Pierce and Sonja Sohn) are so sad to see a good thing end that they've been lobbying David Simon to do a movie. When Simon told them it would have to be a prequel, West says he replied: "... well, in that case I would have to have surgery, and you would have to write in that McNulty looks astonished the whole time."
It's a pretty weak crutch to lean on far as plot goes. To me it just screamed that they needed McNulty to get caught, but couldn't figure out who was going to do the snitching. In my gut I think these corny plot twists would be resolved in a less jarring manner if they had a full season to work with. The transition from buddy-Kima to goodnight-moon-Kima was CORNY.
Remember how upset we all felt along with McNutty when Kima got shot in that botched deal in season 1? For her to snitch on him after all they've been through just makes me sad...
Kima snitched to Daniels though. I am curious to see how it plays out but Daniels is trusted and if anyone is going to keep it relatively under wraps, it's him. It's not like she called the newspaper or went to Rawls or Carcetti. I agree it's somewhat out of character for her, but taking up this obviously out-of-hand situation to someone she trusts is not that big of a stretch.
I'm not sure why it's felt that these characters can't change. I think there's an angel on one shoulder of the show saying that people can make good, can change for the better, can help their city or at least their work - and a devil on the other saying that people don't change, that there's "nothing to be done". Neither one is conclusively "right", but there are points for each.
Does Greggs have to turn into a female McNulty? Obviously she's conflicted about turning him in. She's no simple snitch. Is the fake serial killer plot really that far-fetched? McNulty's always been capable of explosive-level mischief.
I agree to a point that this season is taking shorts because of its truncated length, but I can't help but believe that people are mixing in their affinity for the characters with their criticisms. We all like Kima as a beer swilling ball busting take no prisoners street cop, not so much as a parent or "responsible" detective. But I don't think her actions are very implausible - remember, SHE didn't see McNulty broken up about her being shot, all she saw was that he barely came to visit her. He copped a half-assed excuse and Greggs shrugged it off.
I suggest everyone read that Atlantic Monthly article - I hadn't read it before O-Dub poasted it and thought it was "spot on".
To add a bit more credence to Kima struggling with whether to snitch or not, at least they had a scene where she asked Carver if he was able to sleep at night after blasting Herc. They are cops after all.
I read that Atlantic piece a while back too -- the best part of it was showing how Simon's bitterness did effect his writing somewhat -- with the somewhat incredulous journalism plot this season. The storyline, while not terrible, suffers some from Simon's bad feelings about The Sun -- if had a healthier prospective about his bad times there, it might be more well-rounded take on the media. The story brought Simon down to earth for me, where I had placed him on a pretty Frickin' high pedestal.
I'm not sure why it's felt that these characters can't change. I think there's an angel on one shoulder of the show saying that people can make good, can change for the better, can help their city or at least their work - and a devil on the other saying that people don't change, that there's "nothing to be done". Neither one is conclusively "right", but there are points for each.
Does Greggs have to turn into a female McNulty? Obviously she's conflicted about turning him in. She's no simple snitch. Is the fake serial killer plot really that far-fetched? McNulty's always been capable of explosive-level mischief.
I agree to a point that this season is taking shorts because of its truncated length, but I can't help but believe that people are mixing in their affinity for the characters with their criticisms. We all like Kima as a beer swilling ball busting take no prisoners street cop, not so much as a parent or "responsible" detective. But I don't think her actions are very implausible - remember, SHE didn't see McNulty broken up about her being shot, all she saw was that he barely came to visit her. He copped a half-assed excuse and Greggs shrugged it off.
I suggest everyone read that Atlantic Monthly article - I hadn't read it before O-Dub poasted it and thought it was "spot on".
I have no problem with characters evolving, but I see ZERO motive for Kima's snitchery other than the needs of the show's writers to tie up this particular plotline. A personal grudge against McNulty for not visiting her in the hospital 5 years ago or whatever? She has had many, many opportunities to screw her colleagues over if she had wanted to. None of them are doing police work 100% by the book. So instead she waits until they build a major case and then decides to snitch? I don't see it. McNulty even went out of his way to make sure she didn't get saddled with unnecessary work over his little plot.
kima used a little foresight and smelled the inevitable fetid mess that was inevitably going to follow. i think she realized mcnulty's plan was gonna fuck up a lot of people if they didnt know about it. its already going to be a ballet for Daniels to emerge from this mess without wounds
kima used a little foresight and smelled the inevitable fetid mess that was inevitably going to follow. i think she realized mcnulty's plan was gonna fuck up a lot of people if they didnt know about it. its already going to be a ballet for Daniels to emerge from this mess without wounds
yeah but she wasn't even involved. I can see her snitching if SHE was gonna get implicated by no fault of her own. but she wasn't. in any other season she most likely would have rolled her eyes and called him an asshole and moved on. instead she decided to utterly screw Freamon and McNulty, the former a pretty close associate of hers over the years. And in doing so she is suspending any regard for the actual postitive results of their scheme, results that we have been led to beleive her character would value.
anyway, I think the supposed "evolution" of her character into a snitch -- er -- responsible cop would have been more plausible had we had more to go on than one scene of her buliding an Ikea dresser. That and the good night moon (and arguably her interrogating the juvenile home invasion witness) all definitely evoked some changes in her. But it wasn't enough. Her desire to be a better mother doesn't really translate for me into snitching on her fellow cops.
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I don't think Kima snitched on McNulty because of a grudge - she just thinks it's the right thing to do. I don't see what's so implausible about that.
I think the concept of "good police" is what's at the core of this. We see in episode 58 and 59 that Kima is doing good earnest investigative work on the serial killer case and she sees McNulty's bullshit as the opposite of what good police do. Perhaps blowing the whistle more of an emotional response than a rational decision, but I didn't find implausible for her character.
how is she screwing daniels?? i saw it as she saw this blowing up in everyones faces if somebody responsible to the modus operandi and with a grip on reality didnt know about it. so she went to her mentor daniels. warned him about what the fuck he was staking his name to
how is she screwing daniels?? i saw it as she saw this blowing up in everyones faces if somebody responsible to the modus operandi and with a grip on reality didnt know about it. so she went to her mentor daniels. warned him about what the fuck he was staking his name to
I'm not sure why it's felt that these characters can't change. I think there's an angel on one shoulder of the show saying that people can make good, can change for the better, can help their city or at least their work - and a devil on the other saying that people don't change, that there's "nothing to be done". Neither one is conclusively "right", but there are points for each.
Does Greggs have to turn into a female McNulty? Obviously she's conflicted about turning him in. She's no simple snitch. Is the fake serial killer plot really that far-fetched? McNulty's always been capable of explosive-level mischief.
I agree to a point that this season is taking shorts because of its truncated length, but I can't help but believe that people are mixing in their affinity for the characters with their criticisms. We all like Kima as a beer swilling ball busting take no prisoners street cop, not so much as a parent or "responsible" detective. But I don't think her actions are very implausible - remember, SHE didn't see McNulty broken up about her being shot, all she saw was that he barely came to visit her. He copped a half-assed excuse and Greggs shrugged it off.
I enjoy seeing the different paths Kima and McNulty went down. I just wish Kima wasn't quite so Hallmark card greeting. There's been little to no discussion of Kima's ex - maybe if they got back together and there was incentive for her to clean up her act I would buy it. More exposition would help.
Yeah the evacuation thing was a bit heavy-handed but I thought it was funny. I got a little chuckle out of it anyway.
Evacuation referring to what is being evacuated is an old-school grammatical style rule. I don't think it holds as much these days. I read in an article that one of Simon's old Sun editors was a stickler for grammar, and gave Simon grief for improper use of this very word. (man, he's going far back for grudges!)
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I should add that Bowden dissects that "realistic vs. real" thing as well in that Atlantic Monthly piece from a few months. A good read for those who haven't gotten to it yet: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200801/bowden-wire
The Stoop storytelling series monologue mentioned in that article is available online:
I see Daniels demoted and possibly fired. McNulty definitely fired. I predicted a McNulty suicide early on this season and I can still see that happening maybe.
from the looks of the background, the Cheeze and Marlo swinging scenes look like they are part of the same scene. "What happened here today" sounds pretty major. What happens? Marlo gets got somehow and Cheeze seizes an opportunity to take over? Pretty far-fetched. I dunno.
I think the last episode will hint at a Marlo-Mikey showdown that may or may not happen. more likely Mikey just disappears into the wind.
Yeah the evacuation thing was a bit heavy-handed but I thought it was funny. I got a little chuckle out of it anyway.
Evacuation meaning only buildings is an old-school grammatical style rule. I don't think it holds as much these days. I read in an article that one of Simon's old Sun editors was a stickler for grammar, and gave Simon grief for improper use of this very word. (man, he's going far back for grudges!)
I can be a bit of a dick about shit like that sometimes and I'm not even a newspaper editor. We got some super kids level journalism in this country, our local rag "the courier mail" consistently has spelling and grammatical mistakes all the time. It's a source of much amusement to me and my loser friends. I regularly get texts from mates with choice bits from it..
about a year ago there was this freak storm that hit our area, just heaps of wind and rain, blew shit everywhere, i came home from work about 3pm and the place looked like day of the dead, no power, trees ripped down everwhere, all the traffic lights out. Anyway, this massive old church had the roof blown off it and it landed in the street, big scene, cops, firefighters etc etc.. the next day the courier printed a story about it with the line that "the roof of the church was blown off by powerful wind guts"...
I kept getting visuals of some dude cutting a humongous fart and blowing the roof off..
just one random example. The journalism thing isn't that far off although obviously extremely salty...
SERIAL KILLER BUSINESS GETS PINNED ON SCOTT TEMPLETON DANIELS AND RAWLS KNOW THAT MCNUTTY MADE THAT SHIT UP BUT CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEIR JOBS DEPEND ON A DROP IN CRIME LEVY TRIES TO BRING THAT ILLEGAL WIRETAP SHIT UP BUT IT IS ALREADY COVERED UP BY THE COPS AND/OR FREAMON BRINGS SOME CLAY DAVIS DELIVERED DIRT ON LEVY AND HE BACKS OFF
SERIAL KILLER BUSINESS GETS PINNED ON SCOTT TEMPLETON DANIELS AND RAWLS KNOW THAT MCNUTTY MADE THAT SHIT UP BUT CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEIR JOBS DEPEND ON A DROP IN CRIME LEVY TRIES TO BRING THAT ILLEGAL WIRETAP SHIT UP BUT IT IS ALREADY COVERED UP BY THE COPS AND/OR FREAMON BRINGS SOME CLAY DAVIS DELIVERED DIRT ON LEVY AND HE BACKS OFF
THE COPS AND/OR FREAMON BRINGS SOME CLAY DAVIS DELIVERED DIRT ON LEVY AND HE BACKS OFF
Interesting. It's really the ONLY way Levy would ever back off from what is an open-and-shut dismissal of the entire case. And we did see this develop a little with the Freamon-Clay thing. But really, would it be "Wire-esque" for the very individual that has been identified (albeit cynically) as the root of the problem to actually get his just deserts? Doubt it. Plus Levy just too damn smart.
SERIAL KILLER BUSINESS GETS PINNED ON SCOTT TEMPLETON DANIELS AND RAWLS KNOW THAT MCNUTTY MADE THAT SHIT UP BUT CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEIR JOBS DEPEND ON A DROP IN CRIME LEVY TRIES TO BRING THAT ILLEGAL WIRETAP SHIT UP BUT IT IS ALREADY COVERED UP BY THE COPS AND/OR FREAMON BRINGS SOME CLAY DAVIS DELIVERED DIRT ON LEVY AND HE BACKS OFF
BIG QUESTION IS, WHO IS THE COURTHOUSE SNITCH?
I'm liking Phelan for that.
that does conform with the whole full circle effect they've been pushing
Comments
It's a pretty weak crutch to lean on far as plot goes. To me it just screamed that they needed McNulty to get caught, but couldn't figure out who was going to do the snitching. In my gut I think these corny plot twists would be resolved in a less jarring manner if they had a full season to work with. The transition from buddy-Kima to goodnight-moon-Kima was CORNY. Maybe if there was some proper development I could see it. Now that Marlo's arrested I think even Bunk would be a more convincing snitch. Well, I guess that's not too plausible given how deep he's in, but he's been threatening since the beginning, and had a falling out with McNulty over it.
Is the 90 minute finale confirmed? Or is it 60?
In other news....
Cosign 1000%
Does Greggs have to turn into a female McNulty? Obviously she's conflicted about turning him in. She's no simple snitch. Is the fake serial killer plot really that far-fetched? McNulty's always been capable of explosive-level mischief.
I agree to a point that this season is taking shorts because of its truncated length, but I can't help but believe that people are mixing in their affinity for the characters with their criticisms. We all like Kima as a beer swilling ball busting take no prisoners street cop, not so much as a parent or "responsible" detective. But I don't think her actions are very implausible - remember, SHE didn't see McNulty broken up about her being shot, all she saw was that he barely came to visit her. He copped a half-assed excuse and Greggs shrugged it off.
I suggest everyone read that Atlantic Monthly article - I hadn't read it before O-Dub poasted it and thought it was "spot on".
I read that Atlantic piece a while back too -- the best part of it was showing how Simon's bitterness did effect his writing somewhat -- with the somewhat incredulous journalism plot this season. The storyline, while not terrible, suffers some from Simon's bad feelings about The Sun -- if had a healthier prospective about his bad times there, it might be more well-rounded take on the media. The story brought Simon down to earth for me, where I had placed him on a pretty Frickin' high pedestal.
she was asking him how it felt to write up Tony, not Herc. Tony wilded out on a civilian earlier in the season.
I have no problem with characters evolving, but I see ZERO motive for Kima's snitchery other than the needs of the show's writers to tie up this particular plotline. A personal grudge against McNulty for not visiting her in the hospital 5 years ago or whatever? She has had many, many opportunities to screw her colleagues over if she had wanted to. None of them are doing police work 100% by the book. So instead she waits until they build a major case and then decides to snitch? I don't see it. McNulty even went out of his way to make sure she didn't get saddled with unnecessary work over his little plot.
I don't think Kima snitched on McNulty because of a grudge - she just thinks it's the right thing to do. I don't see what's so implausible about that.
its already going to be a ballet for Daniels to emerge from this mess without wounds
yeah but she wasn't even involved. I can see her snitching if SHE was gonna get implicated by no fault of her own. but she wasn't. in any other season she most likely would have rolled her eyes and called him an asshole and moved on. instead she decided to utterly screw Freamon and McNulty, the former a pretty close associate of hers over the years. And in doing so she is suspending any regard for the actual postitive results of their scheme, results that we have been led to beleive her character would value.
anyway, I think the supposed "evolution" of her character into a snitch -- er -- responsible cop would have been more plausible had we had more to go on than one scene of her buliding an Ikea dresser. That and the good night moon (and arguably her interrogating the juvenile home invasion witness) all definitely evoked some changes in her. But it wasn't enough. Her desire to be a better mother doesn't really translate for me into snitching on her fellow cops.
I think the concept of "good police" is what's at the core of this. We see in episode 58 and 59 that Kima is doing good earnest investigative work on the serial killer case and she sees McNulty's bullshit as the opposite of what good police do. Perhaps blowing the whistle more of an emotional response than a rational decision, but I didn't find implausible for her character.
i saw it as she saw this blowing up in everyones faces if somebody responsible to the modus operandi and with a grip on reality didnt know about it. so she went to her mentor daniels. warned him about what the fuck he was staking his name to
it would have exploded sooner or later
I meant freamon...time for some coffee.
fuck that
time for daniels to stand tall
I enjoy seeing the different paths Kima and McNulty went down. I just wish Kima wasn't quite so Hallmark card greeting. There's been little to no discussion of Kima's ex - maybe if they got back together and there was incentive for her to clean up her act I would buy it. More exposition would help.
Evacuation referring to what is being evacuated is an old-school grammatical style rule. I don't think it holds as much these days. I read in an article that one of Simon's old Sun editors was a stickler for grammar, and gave Simon grief for improper use of this very word. (man, he's going far back for grudges!)
The Stoop storytelling series monologue mentioned in that article is available online:
Stoop Storytelling Series episode 19: My Nemisis
I see Daniels demoted and possibly fired. McNulty definitely fired. I predicted a McNulty suicide early on this season and I can still see that happening maybe.
from the looks of the background, the Cheeze and Marlo swinging scenes look like they are part of the same scene. "What happened here today" sounds pretty major. What happens? Marlo gets got somehow and Cheeze seizes an opportunity to take over? Pretty far-fetched. I dunno.
I think the last episode will hint at a Marlo-Mikey showdown that may or may not happen. more likely Mikey just disappears into the wind.
I can be a bit of a dick about shit like that sometimes and I'm not even a newspaper editor. We got some super kids level journalism in this country, our local rag "the courier mail" consistently has spelling and grammatical mistakes all the time. It's a source of much amusement to me and my loser friends. I regularly get texts from mates with choice bits from it..
about a year ago there was this freak storm that hit our area, just heaps of wind and rain, blew shit everywhere, i came home from work about 3pm and the place looked like day of the dead, no power, trees ripped down everwhere, all the traffic lights out. Anyway, this massive old church had the roof blown off it and it landed in the street, big scene, cops, firefighters etc etc..
the next day the courier printed a story about it with the line that "the roof of the church was blown off by powerful wind guts"...
I kept getting visuals of some dude cutting a humongous fart and blowing the roof off..
just one random example. The journalism thing isn't that far off although obviously extremely salty...
Yeah, I'm leaning into this theory also...
DANIELS AND RAWLS KNOW THAT MCNUTTY MADE THAT SHIT UP BUT CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEIR JOBS DEPEND ON A DROP IN CRIME
LEVY TRIES TO BRING THAT ILLEGAL WIRETAP SHIT UP BUT IT IS ALREADY COVERED UP BY THE COPS AND/OR FREAMON BRINGS SOME CLAY DAVIS DELIVERED DIRT ON LEVY AND HE BACKS OFF
BIG QUESTION IS, WHO IS THE COURTHOUSE SNITCH?
I'm liking Phelan for that.
Interesting. It's really the ONLY way Levy would ever back off from what is an open-and-shut dismissal of the entire case. And we did see this develop a little with the Freamon-Clay thing. But really, would it be "Wire-esque" for the very individual that has been identified (albeit cynically) as the root of the problem to actually get his just deserts? Doubt it. Plus Levy just too damn smart.