Dudes watch a couple VH1 Specials and think they can speak on shit they know nothing about ....and have the nerve to try and check folks who deal with these issues every fuckin day.....This whole "Hip Hop imagery" bullshit is bullshit.
This is obviously a complex issue and like I tried to allude to earlier in this thread to Faux, we wouldn't be having this debate if so many people didn't feel the way they do.
It seems to be pretty split down the middle with neither side budging.
That said, there is room for ALL types of rap, but one of the biggest problems I see is there's more or less ONE type of rap that is being pumped by labels, radio and into everyone's brain 24/7. To quote Chuck D, "Black death has been pimped by corporations, and young people think that the street credibility is the thing that will ride them to some kind of a profitability in life."
I think this whole coversation is indicative of a much greater problem at hand.
Btw, I finally watched that Beyond Beats and Rhymes documentary last night and it summed up everything I feel about this topic. I recommend it.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
there's still, as you mention, plenty of socially conscious material that does not wear its politics on its sleeve
if you really believe that the negative stereotypes being perpuated by hip hop imagery is not effecting black and white youths then you havent spent much time around kids.
White people claiming to know what's really effecting the black community (especially black children) is a bigger problem. I live with a few black kids so i think i'm right about this one............maybe
if what kids read, see and hear did not have an impact on them, there would be no such thing as advertising geared towards kids. the issue is not whether negative hip hop imagery has effected kids, but to what extent.
one of the biggest problems I see is there's more or less ONE type of rap that is being pumped by labels, radio and into everyone's brain 24/7. To quote Chuck D, "Black death has been pimped by corporations, and young people think that the street credibility is the thing that will ride them to some kind of a profitability in life."
I think this whole coversation is indicative of a much greater problem at hand.
I don't get this - when has pop radio ever played anything but pop?
"Real" rap radio used to be underground. Why would anyone ever expect underground records to be pumped on mainstream radio?
As for what Chuck's saying, and what you're saying - I agree, there are bigger problems. But I do not agree that rap music is one of them.
From the time I spend on the other side of the tracks, the shit that goes on that I see is not the result of rap music. I cannot claim to know from the inside how it is to live in the ghetto. I am not that. I am just a frequent visitor. But from what I see - from Brooklyn to Baltimore to Oakland - the things that are keeping people poor, keeping people killing each other, keeping kids from eating well, keeping drug addicts copping and young people buying into the drug trade..... well, it isn't rap music.
Dudes watch a couple VH1 Specials and think they can speak on shit they know nothing about ....and have the nerve to try and check folks who deal with these issues every fuckin day.....This whole "Hip Hop imagery" bullshit is bullshit.
I don't think the argument is bullshit at all. My point is that people tend to overspeak this angle in a way that I find patronizing to youth themselves who aren't quite as mindless as they are often portrayed to be. (Mind you: I'm talking about teens and older. I'd be justifiably worried if I found my daughter reciting the chorus to "Tip Drill").
However, I think Day's mention of Bryan Hurt's "Beyond Beats and Rhymes" is really apropos here. One of the most powerful moments in the doc is when Hurt interviews these aspiring rappers outside of a big music convention and they're all spitting a bunch of murdermurdermurderkillkillkill rhymes and Hurt asks them, "yo - why are these the topics you guys keep addressing in your rhymes?" and a bunch of them admit, "yo, we hate this shit but it's what the labels and radio want. If we could get on [get signed] by kicking something less negative, we'd be all for it but so long as this is what gets people put on, we're going to master the style."
That moment should give pause for a variety of reasons because it introduces a whole set of questions around how complicated the issue of negative imagery is. You could blame the labels/radio...you could blame these aspiring rappers...you could blame the audience. I don't think anyone is blameless - there's enough culpability to spread it around.
But I'm heartened at the idea that youth - as listeners and rappers - are self-aware enough to at least recognize what they find positive and negative. Whether that self-awareness is enough to create a sea-change is a different question though; as noted, the forces that promote certain kinds of messages are fairly prevalent and powerful. I don't think one should conflate them to represent all of hip-hop but I hardly think it's a non-issue either. It's just that, at the end of the day, the politics of hip-hop needs to be seen against a bigger backdrop of pertinent issues facing youth in America. I wish there was less misogyny in hip-hop but misogyny can't be eradicated purely at the point of cultural production. It's just one cell of a larger cancer.
one of the biggest problems I see is there's more or less ONE type of rap that is being pumped by labels, radio and into everyone's brain 24/7. To quote Chuck D, "Black death has been pimped by corporations, and young people think that the street credibility is the thing that will ride them to some kind of a profitability in life."
I think this whole coversation is indicative of a much greater problem at hand.
I don't get this - when has pop radio ever played anything but pop?
"Real" rap radio used to be underground. Why would anyone ever expect underground records to be pumped on mainstream radio?
A lot of markets didn't even have commercial rap radio for most of the music's history--we really didn't have it in Atlanta til 1995.
So why do dudes now feel like they can come up with an accurate diagnosis of rap's health by examining commercial radio?
Well I guess people thought that post-Public Enemy, Black radio (yes, I said Black radio) should've embraced real hip-hop. They never did and probably never will. Any "real rap" record that gets put on rotation is pretty much a coincidence as it has always been[/b].
Some great DJs have gotten ahead by taking their craft and applying it to top 40 material. Those of them that have gotten some leverage now play whatever the hell they feel like, Funkmaster Flex being a great example. And still, Flex is one of the main targets when dudes start bitching about the state of hip-hop. Flex is the only dude in most markets playing old school, breaks, and political rap on mainstream radio!
If you don't want your kid to listen to "gettin some head gettin gettin some head" on the radio then change the dial. Take the pillow from your head and put a book in it.
I donno about the health of rap radio nationally but in Chicago 92.3 is a great rap station with some of the best DJs I've ever heard.
Do they rock much of that kriss-kross?
WGCI is a good station too, although it tends to be more broad and plays R&B, gospel, disco, house, etc. so I didn't mention it. But the reason i brought up kris kross however many months ago that was was because during an old school set, WGCI's dj lil john threw 'warm it up kris' into an old school mix and I was like "whoa...this is fun."
i know its a running joke for some reason i still don't quite understand, other than maybe you take your taste in music a little too seriously
if you really believe that the negative stereotypes being perpuated by hip hop imagery is not effecting black and white youths then you havent spent much time around kids.
White people claiming to know what's really effecting the black community (especially black children) is a bigger problem. I live with a few black kids so i think i'm right about this one............maybe
if what kids read, see and hear did not have an impact on them, there would be no such thing as advertising geared towards kids. the issue is not whether negative hip hop imagery has effected kids, but to what extent.
Kids dont give a fuck about "bling" these days.....Dudes my age listen to more misogynist rap than the kids do...The girls wear more clothes these days than they did when i was in high school....Teen preganancy is down and things were more violent in the "hood" 20 years ago....This is another example of old dudes being a step behind what the youth are really about....."Born to Mack" and all that Luke shit was 20 years ago and the effect it had was on my generation...Today's youth are effected by different shit....but i don't want to get into the Jason Whitlock crap in this thread
one of the biggest problems I see is there's more or less ONE type of rap that is being pumped by labels, radio and into everyone's brain 24/7. To quote Chuck D, "Black death has been pimped by corporations, and young people think that the street credibility is the thing that will ride them to some kind of a profitability in life."
I think this whole coversation is indicative of a much greater problem at hand.
I don't get this - when has pop radio ever played anything but pop?
"Real" rap radio used to be underground. Why would anyone ever expect underground records to be pumped on mainstream radio?
I think when talking about radio these days, you have to take into account things like Sirius and XM which have whole channels dedicated to rap. It's all the same shit people are kicking on FM. It's just the words aren't bleeped out. Bottom line is, people are gonna make what sells and like Oliver said, there's enough blame to go around as to why it does in the first place.
As for what Chuck's saying, and what you're saying - I agree, there are bigger problems. But I do not agree that rap music is one of them.
From the time I spend on the other side of the tracks, the shit that goes on that I see is not the result of rap music. I cannot claim to know from the inside how it is to live in the ghetto. I am not that. I am just a frequent visitor. But from what I see - from Brooklyn to Baltimore to Oakland - the things that are keeping people poor, keeping people killing each other, keeping kids from eating well, keeping drug addicts copping and young people buying into the drug trade..... well, it isn't rap music.
I'm in no way saying rap is the cause of any of those things. I will say it helps fuel the fire in some ways though. Be it good or bad.
In LA the Radio tracks are really only hitting with the early/mid 20s crowd and hipsters. However the kids are more into a mix of indie rock, classics, and shit like Psycho Realm (Sick Symphonies), Ill Bill, La Coka Nostra, etc. But then again we are pulling a larger and larger graf crownd than before so that is probably influencing the demographic.
12-18 year olds... We sell commercial joints to the older crowd that can actually drive and classics and indie to the younger crowd. But hey we are borderline hood where we are at so maybe we are disconnected.
Dudes watch a couple VH1 Specials and think they can speak on shit they know nothing about ....and have the nerve to try and check folks who deal with these issues every fuckin day.....This whole "Hip Hop imagery" bullshit is bullshit.
yea, how dare i try to tell you that there is an issue effecting MILLIONS of other black people. since you are black, i should have just asked you - if this well publicized and much debated issue actually exists. since you say it doesnt, everyone else must be wrong.
and i'll make sure to give you my resume next time i try to speak on anything that doesnt relate to the white, suburban experience.
Dudes watch a couple VH1 Specials and think they can speak on shit they know nothing about ....and have the nerve to try and check folks who deal with these issues every fuckin day.....This whole "Hip Hop imagery" bullshit is bullshit.
I don't think the argument is bullshit at all.
I say its bullshit because its an old argument....The kids are much smarter now than we give them credit...they learned a helluva lot from watching us look dumb.....dudes were trying to be Ron O'Neal before rap...and my generation took that to the next level......Kids these days are into Vans and T-Shirts and having fun....Rap is more fun than its been in years ..I'm not saying the "thugs" don't still exist but things are more balanced in rap and in the hood than they've been in years.
Dudes watch a couple VH1 Specials and think they can speak on shit they know nothing about ....and have the nerve to try and check folks who deal with these issues every fuckin day.....This whole "Hip Hop imagery" bullshit is bullshit.
I don't think the argument is bullshit at all.
I say its bullshit because its an old argument....The kids are much smarter now than we give them credit...they learned a helluva lot from watching us look dumb.....dudes were trying to be Ron O'Neal before rap...and my generation took that to the next level......Kids these days are into Vans and T-Shirts and having fun....Rap is more fun than its been in years ..I'm not saying the "thugs" don't still exist but things are more balanced in rap and in the hood than they've been in years.
Ed - I hear you. I'm merely suggesting that the question of values/images, etc. in hip-hop is a legitimate area of concern just so long as we're not inflating it bigger than it really is. As the BYP suggests, youth ARE concerned about the images being given to them vis a vis media/popular culture. The question of whether or not they're buying into these "mentalities" wholesale is where a lot of folks diverge. I don't think youth are sheep. I can't say that they - as a whole - practice sound judgment in relation to these influences though.
Kids dont give a fuck about "bling" these days.....Dudes my age listen to more misogynist rap than the kids do...The girls wear more clothes these days than they did when i was in high school....Teen preganancy is down and things were more violent in the "hood" 20 years ago....This is another example of old dudes being a step behind what the youth are really about....."Born to Mack" and all that Luke shit was 20 years ago and the effect it had was on my generation...Today's youth are effected by different shit....but i don't want to get into the Jason Whitlock crap in this thread
we are talking about two entirely different things. what i am referring to did not exist 20 years ago. the modern form of media is everywhere and anywhere all the time. now, add the fact that hip hop imagery dominates the media and you can start to see where i am going. kids are getting blasted with these negative stereotypes everywhere they turn. its not really about the lyrics at all.
Kids dont give a fuck about "bling" these days.....Dudes my age listen to more misogynist rap than the kids do...The girls wear more clothes these days than they did when i was in high school....Teen preganancy is down and things were more violent in the "hood" 20 years ago....This is another example of old dudes being a step behind what the youth are really about....."Born to Mack" and all that Luke shit was 20 years ago and the effect it had was on my generation...Today's youth are effected by different shit....but i don't want to get into the Jason Whitlock crap in this thread
we are talking about two entirely different things. what i am referring to did not exist 20 years ago. the modern form of media is everywhere and anywhere all the time. now, add the fact that hip hop imagery dominates the media and you can start to see where i am going. kids are getting blasted with these negative stereotypes everywhere they turn. its not really about the lyrics at all.
What are you talking about? What is your experience with these kids and these communities?
Your points sound very vague and basically like a hunch or a gut observation.
Kids dont give a fuck about "bling" these days.....Dudes my age listen to more misogynist rap than the kids do...The girls wear more clothes these days than they did when i was in high school....Teen preganancy is down and things were more violent in the "hood" 20 years ago....This is another example of old dudes being a step behind what the youth are really about....."Born to Mack" and all that Luke shit was 20 years ago and the effect it had was on my generation...Today's youth are effected by different shit....but i don't want to get into the Jason Whitlock crap in this thread
we are talking about two entirely different things. what i am referring to did not exist 20 years ago. the modern form of media is everywhere and anywhere all the time. now, add the fact that hip hop imagery dominates the media and you can start to see where i am going. kids are getting blasted with these negative stereotypes everywhere they turn. its not really about the lyrics at all.
Sort of, but kids are alot better at weaving through the bullshit than I think my generation or the one follwing behind me. The kids today 10-18 have grown up being inundated with media and they don't buy into alot of shite that is peddled to them. It takes alot to get them to back something or be into something which I think is a good thing. That age group is just getting to the point where economically they are going to be influencing what sells and what doesn't. And really to them Music is disposable, they aren't buying it. The industry itself needs to adapt overall and hip-hop REALLY needs to adapt as its sales are sliding faster than other genres.
12-18 year olds... We sell commercial joints to the older crowd that can actually drive and classics and indie to the younger crowd. But hey we are borderline hood where we are at so maybe we are disconnected.
Here's the thing though, only a very small fraction of high school kids still purchase (physical) music and not coincidentally they are the ones with more unique/varied/alternative taste. When I do sell CDs to someone under 20 it's usually some "forward thinking" kid who comes in looking for old Prince or Immortal Technique or Bjork or whatever. The "music is serious, and I do the knowledge" type of kid. The store I work at also sells video games and dvds, both still across the board sellers in the under 20 sect, and those kids who come are definitely more interested in Wayne, Mims, TCB, Rihanna, etc. They just don't buy it at the store, they cop a bootleg or a mixtape or burn it off a friend or buy it from itunes.
20+'s with generic radio taste still buy CDs because that's what they were raised on. They're more comfortable with the physical product. But the youth don't need it anymore.
Of course, I can only speak for DC, maybe the bulk of LA teens really do fuck with Ill Bill like that. Further reason for me to never go to LA.
yea, how dare i try to tell you that there is an issue effecting MILLIONS of other black people.
i asked you to explain and you chose not to
since you are black, i should have just asked you
Since you're not black, how can you TELL me ?
if this well publicized and much debated issue actually exists. since you say it doesnt, everyone else must be wrong.
Who the hell is "everyone" else ? The black people you see on tv speaking on it? I'd do a tv interview but nobody asked me.....I'd write a book but nobody asked me to that either....same goes for the millions who agree with me ....you can't define what black folks feel by the people you see on tv....we don't all share the same theories and ideas...
and i'll make sure to give you my resume next time i try to speak on anything that doesnt relate to the white, suburban experience.
i dont speak about suburban white life because its not what i know...I'm constantly amazed and offended by how many dudes like you choose to speak about the "black experience" and get ass-hurt when a black person tells you you're wrong.....how dare you be that arrogant ? ...You're right...you have no place to tell me what effects my kids ...especially when you're part of the problem
Kids dont give a fuck about "bling" these days.....Dudes my age listen to more misogynist rap than the kids do...The girls wear more clothes these days than they did when i was in high school....Teen preganancy is down and things were more violent in the "hood" 20 years ago....This is another example of old dudes being a step behind what the youth are really about....."Born to Mack" and all that Luke shit was 20 years ago and the effect it had was on my generation...Today's youth are effected by different shit....but i don't want to get into the Jason Whitlock crap in this thread
we are talking about two entirely different things. what i am referring to did not exist 20 years ago. the modern form of media is everywhere and anywhere all the time. now, add the fact that hip hop imagery dominates the media and you can start to see where i am going. kids are getting blasted with these negative stereotypes everywhere they turn. its not really about the lyrics at all.
What are you talking about? What is your experience with these kids and these communities?
Your points sound very vague and basically like a hunch or a gut observation.
12-18 year olds... We sell commercial joints to the older crowd that can actually drive and classics and indie to the younger crowd. But hey we are borderline hood where we are at so maybe we are disconnected.
Here's the thing though, only a very small fraction of high school kids still purchase (physical) music and not coincidentally they are the ones with more unique/varied/alternative taste. When I do sell CDs to someone under 20 it's usually some "forward thinking" kid who comes in looking for old Prince or Immortal Technique or Bjork or whatever. The "music is serious, and I do the knowledge" type of kid. The store I work at also sells video games and dvds, both still across the board sellers in the under 20 sect, and those kids who come are definitely more interested in Wayne, Mims, TCB, Rihanna, etc. They just don't buy it at the store, they cop a bootleg or a mixtape or burn it off a friend or buy it from itunes.
20+'s with generic radio taste still buy CDs because that's what they were raised on. They're more comfortable with the physical product. But the youth don't need it anymore.
Of course, I can only speak for DC, maybe the bulk of LA teens really do fuck with Ill Bill like that. Further reason for me to never go to LA.
Ia m not sure about your demographic but these are not your white suburban kids. Its all types all different backgrounds buying ONLY certain indie stuff. I couldn't sell an El-P CD to save my life here, but Psycho Realm, Necro, etc. I can't keep in stock. Its cool though because those kids are actually just fans of the music. They have to be in this day and age to buy it. Most of the commercial hip-hop that we sell goes to people who need it for the car and just drop in buy it and bounce and usually just want it for the song thats on the radio.
Shit is very different out here than in alot of the country I think. Psycho Realm has a crazy following out here and draws 3-5000 kids per show. You would never know that they were that popular anywhere else, but it is definately a new breed of music consumer and its not being dictated to as much by the Radio or what soundsccan/billboards SAYS is hot.
All in all I think the slipping sales on the mainstream side is the best thing that could happen for the genre. Its already allowed KOCH to start getting radio airplay which is a small step forward.
Comments
Thank You.
Dudes watch a couple VH1 Specials and think they can speak on shit they know nothing about ....and have the nerve to try and check folks who deal with these issues every fuckin day.....This whole "Hip Hop imagery" bullshit is bullshit.
It seems to be pretty split down the middle with neither side budging.
That said, there is room for ALL types of rap, but one of the biggest problems I see is there's more or less ONE type of rap that is being pumped by labels, radio and into everyone's brain 24/7.
To quote Chuck D, "Black death has been pimped by corporations, and young people think that the street credibility is the thing that will ride them to some kind of a profitability in life."
I think this whole coversation is indicative of a much greater problem at hand.
Btw, I finally watched that Beyond Beats and Rhymes documentary last night and it summed up everything I feel about this topic. I recommend it.
if what kids read, see and hear did not have an impact on them, there would be no such thing as advertising geared towards kids. the issue is not whether negative hip hop imagery has effected kids, but to what extent.
I don't get this - when has pop radio ever played anything but pop?
"Real" rap radio used to be underground. Why would anyone ever expect underground records to be pumped on mainstream radio?
As for what Chuck's saying, and what you're saying - I agree, there are bigger problems. But I do not agree that rap music is one of them.
From the time I spend on the other side of the tracks, the shit that goes on that I see is not the result of rap music. I cannot claim to know from the inside how it is to live in the ghetto. I am not that. I am just a frequent visitor. But from what I see - from Brooklyn to Baltimore to Oakland - the things that are keeping people poor, keeping people killing each other, keeping kids from eating well, keeping drug addicts copping and young people buying into the drug trade..... well, it isn't rap music.
I don't think the argument is bullshit at all. My point is that people tend to overspeak this angle in a way that I find patronizing to youth themselves who aren't quite as mindless as they are often portrayed to be. (Mind you: I'm talking about teens and older. I'd be justifiably worried if I found my daughter reciting the chorus to "Tip Drill").
However, I think Day's mention of Bryan Hurt's "Beyond Beats and Rhymes" is really apropos here. One of the most powerful moments in the doc is when Hurt interviews these aspiring rappers outside of a big music convention and they're all spitting a bunch of murdermurdermurderkillkillkill rhymes and Hurt asks them, "yo - why are these the topics you guys keep addressing in your rhymes?" and a bunch of them admit, "yo, we hate this shit but it's what the labels and radio want. If we could get on [get signed] by kicking something less negative, we'd be all for it but so long as this is what gets people put on, we're going to master the style."
That moment should give pause for a variety of reasons because it introduces a whole set of questions around how complicated the issue of negative imagery is. You could blame the labels/radio...you could blame these aspiring rappers...you could blame the audience. I don't think anyone is blameless - there's enough culpability to spread it around.
But I'm heartened at the idea that youth - as listeners and rappers - are self-aware enough to at least recognize what they find positive and negative. Whether that self-awareness is enough to create a sea-change is a different question though; as noted, the forces that promote certain kinds of messages are fairly prevalent and powerful. I don't think one should conflate them to represent all of hip-hop but I hardly think it's a non-issue either. It's just that, at the end of the day, the politics of hip-hop needs to be seen against a bigger backdrop of pertinent issues facing youth in America. I wish there was less misogyny in hip-hop but misogyny can't be eradicated purely at the point of cultural production. It's just one cell of a larger cancer.
A lot of markets didn't even have commercial rap radio for most of the music's history--we really didn't have it in Atlanta til 1995.
So why do dudes now feel like they can come up with an accurate diagnosis of rap's health by examining commercial radio?
Because they all missed "the boat".
Do they rock much of that kriss-kross?
Some great DJs have gotten ahead by taking their craft and applying it to top 40 material. Those of them that have gotten some leverage now play whatever the hell they feel like, Funkmaster Flex being a great example. And still, Flex is one of the main targets when dudes start bitching about the state of hip-hop. Flex is the only dude in most markets playing old school, breaks, and political rap on mainstream radio!
If you don't want your kid to listen to "gettin some head gettin gettin some head" on the radio then change the dial. Take the pillow from your head and put a book in it.
i know its a running joke for some reason i still don't quite understand, other than maybe you take your taste in music a little too seriously
Kids dont give a fuck about "bling" these days.....Dudes my age listen to more misogynist rap than the kids do...The girls wear more clothes these days than they did when i was in high school....Teen preganancy is down and things were more violent in the "hood" 20 years ago....This is another example of old dudes being a step behind what the youth are really about....."Born to Mack" and all that Luke shit was 20 years ago and the effect it had was on my generation...Today's youth are effected by different shit....but i don't want to get into the Jason Whitlock crap in this thread
I think when talking about radio these days, you have to take into account things like Sirius and XM which have whole channels dedicated to rap. It's all the same shit people are kicking on FM. It's just the words aren't bleeped out.
Bottom line is, people are gonna make what sells and like Oliver said, there's enough blame to go around as to why it does in the first place.
I'm in no way saying rap is the cause of any of those things. I will say it helps fuel the fire in some ways though. Be it good or bad.
In LA the Radio tracks are really only hitting with the early/mid 20s crowd and hipsters. However the kids are more into a mix of indie rock, classics, and shit like Psycho Realm (Sick Symphonies), Ill Bill, La Coka Nostra, etc. But then again we are pulling a larger and larger graf crownd than before so that is probably influencing the demographic.
yea, how dare i try to tell you that there is an issue effecting MILLIONS of other black people. since you are black, i should have just asked you - if this well publicized and much debated issue actually exists. since you say it doesnt, everyone else must be wrong.
and i'll make sure to give you my resume next time i try to speak on anything that doesnt relate to the white, suburban experience.
I say its bullshit because its an old argument....The kids are much smarter now than we give them credit...they learned a helluva lot from watching us look dumb.....dudes were trying to be Ron O'Neal before rap...and my generation took that to the next level......Kids these days are into Vans and T-Shirts and having fun....Rap is more fun than its been in years ..I'm not saying the "thugs" don't still exist but things are more balanced in rap and in the hood than they've been in years.
Ed - I hear you. I'm merely suggesting that the question of values/images, etc. in hip-hop is a legitimate area of concern just so long as we're not inflating it bigger than it really is. As the BYP suggests, youth ARE concerned about the images being given to them vis a vis media/popular culture. The question of whether or not they're buying into these "mentalities" wholesale is where a lot of folks diverge. I don't think youth are sheep. I can't say that they - as a whole - practice sound judgment in relation to these influences though.
Just look at adult behavior!
we are talking about two entirely different things. what i am referring to did not exist 20 years ago. the modern form of media is everywhere and anywhere all the time. now, add the fact that hip hop imagery dominates the media and you can start to see where i am going. kids are getting blasted with these negative stereotypes everywhere they turn. its not really about the lyrics at all.
What are you talking about? What is your experience with these kids and these communities?
Your points sound very vague and basically like a hunch or a gut observation.
Sort of, but kids are alot better at weaving through the bullshit than I think my generation or the one follwing behind me. The kids today 10-18 have grown up being inundated with media and they don't buy into alot of shite that is peddled to them. It takes alot to get them to back something or be into something which I think is a good thing. That age group is just getting to the point where economically they are going to be influencing what sells and what doesn't. And really to them Music is disposable, they aren't buying it. The industry itself needs to adapt overall and hip-hop REALLY needs to adapt as its sales are sliding faster than other genres.
Here's the thing though, only a very small fraction of high school kids still purchase (physical) music and not coincidentally they are the ones with more unique/varied/alternative taste. When I do sell CDs to someone under 20 it's usually some "forward thinking" kid who comes in looking for old Prince or Immortal Technique or Bjork or whatever. The "music is serious, and I do the knowledge" type of kid. The store I work at also sells video games and dvds, both still across the board sellers in the under 20 sect, and those kids who come are definitely more interested in Wayne, Mims, TCB, Rihanna, etc. They just don't buy it at the store, they cop a bootleg or a mixtape or burn it off a friend or buy it from itunes.
20+'s with generic radio taste still buy CDs because that's what they were raised on. They're more comfortable with the physical product. But the youth don't need it anymore.
Of course, I can only speak for DC, maybe the bulk of LA teens really do fuck with Ill Bill like that. Further reason for me to never go to LA.
i asked you to explain and you chose not to
Since you're not black, how can you TELL me ?
Who the hell is "everyone" else ? The black people you see on tv speaking on it? I'd do a tv interview but nobody asked me.....I'd write a book but nobody asked me to that either....same goes for the millions who agree with me ....you can't define what black folks feel by the people you see on tv....we don't all share the same theories and ideas...
i dont speak about suburban white life because its not what i know...I'm constantly amazed and offended by how many dudes like you choose to speak about the "black experience" and get ass-hurt when a black person tells you you're wrong.....how dare you be that arrogant ? ...You're right...you have no place to tell me what effects my kids ...especially when you're part of the problem
Sustained!
Another bullshit myth
Ia m not sure about your demographic but these are not your white suburban kids. Its all types all different backgrounds buying ONLY certain indie stuff. I couldn't sell an El-P CD to save my life here, but Psycho Realm, Necro, etc. I can't keep in stock. Its cool though because those kids are actually just fans of the music. They have to be in this day and age to buy it. Most of the commercial hip-hop that we sell goes to people who need it for the car and just drop in buy it and bounce and usually just want it for the song thats on the radio.
Shit is very different out here than in alot of the country I think. Psycho Realm has a crazy following out here and draws 3-5000 kids per show. You would never know that they were that popular anywhere else, but it is definately a new breed of music consumer and its not being dictated to as much by the Radio or what soundsccan/billboards SAYS is hot.
All in all I think the slipping sales on the mainstream side is the best thing that could happen for the genre. Its already allowed KOCH to start getting radio airplay which is a small step forward.
Nor are the demographics I speak of. There are very few whites younger than college age in DC.