i dont speak about suburban white life because its not what i know...I'm constantly amazed and offended by how many dudes like you choose to speak about the "black experience" and get ass-hurt when a black person tells you you're wrong.....how dare you be that arrogant ? ...You're right...you have no place to tell me what effects my kids ...especially when you're part of the problem
i'm not speaking about the "black experience", i'm speaking about an issue that effects black people. if you disagree with me, and your evidence is personal experience. okay, fair enough. however, we are dealing with an issue that has broader implications than you. im wasting enough of my work day on this thread to go out and find some internet citations for you to read. but, as i said before, michael eric dyson and bill cosby have an ongoing debate that relates to the issue of black parents reinforcing the mythical stereotypes laid out by hip hop imagery. shit, dyson wrote at least two books on it! oliver already posted at least one study.
i'm not being arrogant at all, nor is this issue something completely foreign to me. i have plenty of experience working/volunteerign with black youth, however, i dont think this adds to my argument, because this isnt a theory i concocted but one that continues to be debated. so my anectodal experience might be relevant, but its not really important.
if you want to believe that what kids see and hear is irrelevant to their development, feel free to. it is also not as important because the kids who are harmed the most are the ones without parents there to tell them that the hip hop world is largely a fantasy.
by the way, i have consistently said that the negative hip hop imagery is effecting all youth. not just blacks. the peanut gallery has turned this into a "you just told a black guy what black communites are saying" thread. although, its still a losing argument for you to contend that this is not an issue among blacks.
Ia m not sure about your demographic but these are not your white suburban kids.
Nor are the demographics I speak of. There are very few whites younger than college age in DC.
No doubt, I was meaning the demographics comment more along the lines that alot of the indie stuff is associated with that college age/white middle class crowd. Its just an interesting juxtposition between the two crowds out here.
genius. you should alternate between posting "is it though?" and "rofl" to everything i write. just follow me from thread to thread. i plan on watching a few nba games tonite, so check that thread tomorrow.
i love when keithvanhorn shows his ass in these kinds of threads
yea? the issue i was speaking about is controversial but i was cut off as soon as i introduced the topic. "to what extent does negative hip hop imagery have an effect on today's youth?" the fact that i referred to black kids and not just whites was what brought out the ever-important "who are you to talk about black people" debate. a lot was accomplished.
kvh i think odub is doing a better job articulating your point. i see what yr saying but its coming across really badly as edpowers pointed out.
this is assuming i'm understanding yr point correctly.
what point? that the media influences kids? that hip hop imagery enforces negative stereotypes? are these points really debatable.
the controversy lies in a) to what extent they are influenced, and more importantly b) what parents, people in the community, and peers are doing to either negate the stereotypes or reinforce them. a seperate issue might be whether the artists, record labels, and media are culpable for enforcing these images, and to what extent. again, we never got that far in the discussion. it transformed into a white guy talking about the black experience.
kvh i think odub is doing a better job articulating your point. i see what yr saying but its coming across really badly as edpowers pointed out.
this is assuming i'm understanding yr point correctly.
what point? that the media influences kids? that hip hop imagery enforces negative stereotypes? are these points really debatable.
the controversy lies in a) to what extent they are influenced, and more importantly b) what parents, people in the community, and peers are doing to either negate the stereotypes or reinforce them. a seperate issue might be whether the artists, record labels, and media are culpable for enforcing these images, and to what extent. again, we never got that far in the discussion. it transformed into a white guy talking about the black experience.
Do you really believe that kids who sell dope sit at home, watch TV, say "wow look at Cam'Ron, that's so cool" and then go get a g pack?
And if they do go get that package, do you think that rap music was the biggest influence in that decision?
I am trying to understand where you're coming from but it seems kind of like the guys at ball games who bitch about the length of the players' shorts and the tattoos and braids. I mean, there are a lot of problems in the hood and I'm sure rap music figures into some shit but to pick it out as the most pressing issue with the youth today.... yeah I would probably guess that you don't spend much time in the hood based off that.
Do you really believe that kids who sell dope sit at home, watch TV, say "wow look at Cam'Ron, that's so cool" and then go get a g pack?
i believe that.
a lot of kids who sell dope don't do it coz they're starving and there's a shortage of work. they do it coz they want to live the gangsta lifestyle which is glamourized by such figures.
not saying rap is to blame for everything, but it's silly to think that the influence is not there.
Do you really believe that kids who sell dope sit at home, watch TV, say "wow look at Cam'Ron, that's so cool" and then go get a g pack?
i believe that.
a lot of kids who sell dope don't do it coz they're starving and there's a shortage of work. they do it coz they want to live the gangsta lifestyle which is glamourized by such figures.
Is that the scene in your part of the world?
Pretty much everyone I've ever met who was at all deep in the dope game was doing it to feed their kids or their parents.
That selling dope for fun shit is the province of college kids like me that broke even on ounces so we could smoke for free. There's a big difference.
Do you really believe that kids who sell dope sit at home, watch TV, say "wow look at Cam'Ron, that's so cool" and then go get a g pack?
And if they do go get that package, do you think that rap music was the biggest influence in that decision?
why are you putting words in my mouth? i only went so far as saying "negatively effects" and i stated that it applied to all kids, regardless of their background, race, etc. for the last time - there is nothing debatable about what i said. please try to disprove that either a) the media influences kids, or b) hip hop imagery perpetuates negative stereotypes. okay??? that is all i got as far as saying.
dude, please feel free to carry on with how i've never stepped foot in a bad neighborhood. its the #1 most used counter-argument on soul strut and entirely relevant to everything related to music, politics and sociological issues.
why are you putting words in my mouth? i only went so far as saying "negatively effects" and i stated that it applied to all kids, regardless of their background, race, etc. for the last time - there is nothing debatable about what i said. please try to disprove that either a) the media influences kids, or b) hip hop imagery perpetuates negative stereotypes. okay??? that is all i got as far as saying.
dude, please feel free to carry on with how i've never stepped foot in a bad neighborhood. its the #1 most used counter-argument on soul strut and entirely relevant to everything related to music, politics and sociological issues.
Hey man, I'm just going based on what you've said. I'm trying to apply that to real situations. You're just backing down into basic generalities that can't be refuted.
If your sole point is that hip-hop does perpetuate some negative stereotypes well that is not news. Every youth culture since the beginning of last century (and probably before) has done this. If your sole point is that media affects children again this is nothing new. But what does this have to do specifically with hip-hop?
I would love to hear some examples of the kind of behavior you think is being affected by rap music.
Do you really believe that kids who sell dope sit at home, watch TV, say "wow look at Cam'Ron, that's so cool" and then go get a g pack?
i believe that.
a lot of kids who sell dope don't do it coz they're starving and there's a shortage of work. they do it coz they want to live the gangsta lifestyle which is glamourized by such figures.
Is that the scene in your part of the world?
Pretty much everyone I've ever met who was at all deep in the dope game was doing it to feed their kids or their parents.
That selling dope for fun shit is the province of college kids like me that broke even on ounces so we could smoke for free. There's a big difference.
Unfortunately its both ways... There are alot of cats that I have met that do it as a living and have ALOT of money doing it because its business. They come from 80th Street and below though. Alot of the "gangsters" around the store's neighborhood are not well off, but would be considered middle class and actually DUMB themsleves down to do the same shit that the cats from South Central live off of. So it goes both ways it jsut really depends on your location.
Also thats not to say that some of the cats I know from the neighborhood aren't doing it day in adn day out to feed their kids, but they are older and are part of the neighborhood that has grown up and watched it go from Hood to borderline/next up for gentrification. there is no black and white left or right line, its very blurry.
a lot of kids who sell dope don't do it coz they're starving and there's a shortage of work. they do it coz they want to live the gangsta lifestyle which is glamourized by such figures.
i hope you're joking ....I don't even know where to begin with this one...
Pretty much everyone I've ever met who was at all deep in the dope game was doing it to feed their kids or their parents.
That selling dope for fun shit is the province of college kids like me that broke even on ounces so we could smoke for free. There's a big difference.
well, yes i am talking about the scene in my part of the world, naturally.
i know of young people deep in the dope game, who don't have kids to support, and they choose this lifestyle cause they are addicted to money and the luxuries that it brings. i'm not talking about ounces. talking bout people who push weight so they can drive beamers and floss in clubs like their favourite rappers. i'm sure there's people like that in your part of the world too.
a lot of kids who sell dope don't do it coz they're starving and there's a shortage of work. they do it coz they want to live the gangsta lifestyle which is glamourized by such figures.
i hope you're joking ....I don't even know where to begin with this one...
i love when keithvanhorn shows his ass in these kinds of threads
yea? the issue i was speaking about is controversial but i was cut off as soon as i introduced the topic. "to what extent does negative hip hop imagery have an effect on today's youth?" the fact that i referred to black kids and not just whites was what brought out the ever-important "who are you to talk about black people" debate. a lot was accomplished.
Please dude.....you went out of your way to single out black & poor kids
well, yes i am talking about the scene in my part of the world, naturally.
i know of young people deep in the dope game, who don't have kids to support, and they choose this lifestyle cause they are addicted to money and the luxuries that it brings. i'm not talking about ounces. talking bout people who push weight so they can drive beamers and floss in clubs like their favourite rappers. i'm sure there's people like that in your part of the world too.
Comments
i'm not speaking about the "black experience", i'm speaking about an issue that effects black people. if you disagree with me, and your evidence is personal experience. okay, fair enough. however, we are dealing with an issue that has broader implications than you. im wasting enough of my work day on this thread to go out and find some internet citations for you to read. but, as i said before, michael eric dyson and bill cosby have an ongoing debate that relates to the issue of black parents reinforcing the mythical stereotypes laid out by hip hop imagery. shit, dyson wrote at least two books on it! oliver already posted at least one study.
i'm not being arrogant at all, nor is this issue something completely foreign to me. i have plenty of experience working/volunteerign with black youth, however, i dont think this adds to my argument, because this isnt a theory i concocted but one that continues to be debated. so my anectodal experience might be relevant, but its not really important.
if you want to believe that what kids see and hear is irrelevant to their development, feel free to. it is also not as important because the kids who are harmed the most are the ones without parents there to tell them that the hip hop world is largely a fantasy.
by the way, i have consistently said that the negative hip hop imagery is effecting all youth. not just blacks. the peanut gallery has turned this into a "you just told a black guy what black communites are saying" thread. although, its still a losing argument for you to contend that this is not an issue among blacks.
No doubt, I was meaning the demographics comment more along the lines that alot of the indie stuff is associated with that college age/white middle class crowd. Its just an interesting juxtposition between the two crowds out here.
lol
lofl
rofl
roflofl !!!
lmao
lmaoroflol
Au contraire!
I AM HIP-HOP.
Keif is da truf, NOW GET STUPID!!!! Ey!
yea? the issue i was speaking about is controversial but i was cut off as soon as i introduced the topic. "to what extent does negative hip hop imagery have an effect on today's youth?" the fact that i referred to black kids and not just whites was what brought out the ever-important "who are you to talk about black people" debate. a lot was accomplished.
this is assuming i'm understanding yr point correctly.
what point? that the media influences kids? that hip hop imagery enforces negative stereotypes? are these points really debatable.
the controversy lies in a) to what extent they are influenced, and more importantly b) what parents, people in the community, and peers are doing to either negate the stereotypes or reinforce them. a seperate issue might be whether the artists, record labels, and media are culpable for enforcing these images, and to what extent. again, we never got that far in the discussion. it transformed into a white guy talking about the black experience.
I love that song.
Do you really believe that kids who sell dope sit at home, watch TV, say "wow look at Cam'Ron, that's so cool" and then go get a g pack?
And if they do go get that package, do you think that rap music was the biggest influence in that decision?
I am trying to understand where you're coming from but it seems kind of like the guys at ball games who bitch about the length of the players' shorts and the tattoos and braids. I mean, there are a lot of problems in the hood and I'm sure rap music figures into some shit but to pick it out as the most pressing issue with the youth today.... yeah I would probably guess that you don't spend much time in the hood based off that.
I think "The Wire" would be the other main influence since that would actually instruct folks on what to DO with said g pack.
I just got back from West Baltimore and them motherfuckers aren't sitting around watching The Wire.
:SCHITT COOKETH:
i believe that.
a lot of kids who sell dope don't do it coz they're starving and there's a shortage of work. they do it coz they want to live the gangsta lifestyle which is glamourized by such figures.
not saying rap is to blame for everything, but it's silly to think that the influence is not there.
Is that the scene in your part of the world?
Pretty much everyone I've ever met who was at all deep in the dope game was doing it to feed their kids or their parents.
That selling dope for fun shit is the province of college kids like me that broke even on ounces so we could smoke for free. There's a big difference.
why are you putting words in my mouth? i only went so far as saying "negatively effects" and i stated that it applied to all kids, regardless of their background, race, etc. for the last time - there is nothing debatable about what i said. please try to disprove that either a) the media influences kids, or b) hip hop imagery perpetuates negative stereotypes. okay??? that is all i got as far as saying.
dude, please feel free to carry on with how i've never stepped foot in a bad neighborhood. its the #1 most used counter-argument on soul strut and entirely relevant to everything related to music, politics and sociological issues.
that is the first thing you have been right about.
Hey man, I'm just going based on what you've said. I'm trying to apply that to real situations. You're just backing down into basic generalities that can't be refuted.
If your sole point is that hip-hop does perpetuate some negative stereotypes well that is not news. Every youth culture since the beginning of last century (and probably before) has done this. If your sole point is that media affects children again this is nothing new. But what does this have to do specifically with hip-hop?
I would love to hear some examples of the kind of behavior you think is being affected by rap music.
Unfortunately its both ways... There are alot of cats that I have met that do it as a living and have ALOT of money doing it because its business. They come from 80th Street and below though. Alot of the "gangsters" around the store's neighborhood are not well off, but would be considered middle class and actually DUMB themsleves down to do the same shit that the cats from South Central live off of. So it goes both ways it jsut really depends on your location.
Also thats not to say that some of the cats I know from the neighborhood aren't doing it day in adn day out to feed their kids, but they are older and are part of the neighborhood that has grown up and watched it go from Hood to borderline/next up for gentrification. there is no black and white left or right line, its very blurry.
i hope you're joking ....I don't even know where to begin with this one...
please tell me you're not serious
well, yes i am talking about the scene in my part of the world, naturally.
i know of young people deep in the dope game, who don't have kids to support, and they choose this lifestyle cause they are addicted to money and the luxuries that it brings. i'm not talking about ounces. talking bout people who push weight so they can drive beamers and floss in clubs like their favourite rappers. i'm sure there's people like that in your part of the world too.
do you have something to say?
Please dude.....you went out of your way to single out black & poor kids
i missed this reply so i deleted my post
i am very aware of the societal problems that lead people to sell and use drugs.
however, the media is very influential on young people and distorts their views of the world. i don't think you can dispute that.