On a somewhat played out note I listened to [insert arbitrary underground rapper]'s mix tape/album today and that shit was heavily on point, lots of nods to the hip-hop of yesterday and opinions on the rap of today.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
getting older doesn't automatically make hip-hop that less listenable
do you listen to everything you listened to when you were 17 or have your tastes mellowed out a bit as you've gotten older?
honestly, I think that the majority of soulstrut posters are special cases and have some sick need to find more music to enjoy. When I was 17 I was so single-minded that buying something non-Rap was unthinkable. Do I still dig a lot of the stuff I was listening to back in '97? For the most part yes and in the time since I've grown to appreciate jazz, soul, rock, country and other things.
Possibly more telling would be asking myself if I would have like Young Jeezy or Mims had they come out back in '97 and truthfully my backpack was so surgically tight on my back that I would've probably had the same view. I'll put myself out on a limb here and say Day may have been in the same position.
I really do feel that the watered down rap of today is just so much worse (and prevalent) than the watered down rap of yesteryear.
Guzzo all I'm saying is in high school I was listening to a lot of rap and punk rock. The older I get the less I want to listen to that stuff and the more I want to listen to disco, r&b - more grown genres of music. Don't get me wrong I still love hip-hop and Fugazi and whatever else but folks' tastes mellow as they get older. There is a real tendency to go soft - clearly that's more about the listener than about the quality of the music. I won't let go though, in part because, as Day pointed out, it's my job to stay up on current music and try to sift some gems from all the shit. But I do really feel a lot of current rap music and honestly if you can't find anything to like then you've either gone soft or you're not trying hard enough.
I'm happy just to hear something that gets me excited these days, whether that's Ghost over "Know The Ledge" or something like "What Money Do". I tend to agree with Day's point that the general infantilisation of music is by no means exclusive to rap. Personally, I have one or two issues with the whole "rap is youth music" thing. It's certainly become youth music, but surely that has as much to do with the way it's marketed as anything else. I certainly get a little curmudgeonly over the way everything seems to be so relentlessly aimed at snagging the teen dollar nowadays, as if anyone too long over the age of 30 couldn't possibly still be interested in rap, and if they are, it's only throwback-type shit they're bothered about. Either way, bellyaching about nursery rhymes like "Chain Hang Low" is a waste of time. Like most rap, good or bad, it is what it is, so either love it or leave it alone. Nevertheless, there's a strong case, and maybe even a decent-sized potential audience for grown folks rap that isn't "Grown Folks Rap", if you know what I mean. The trouble with so much of the stuff that's trying to fill such a gap in the market is that it's, well, boring. Too much of it seems overly preoccupied with setting itself in opposition to what's currently popular, as if that alone is enough to make it worth listening to or spending money on. That, and sounding as though the people making it haven't listened to a new rap record since 1997.
I may have said this before on here, but when I get involved in conversations about rap with friends who don't really listen to it, or whose exposure to it is pretty limited, it's not long before some smartarse asks, "Aren't you a bit old to be listening to that stuff?" I seriously doubt that anyone who's listened to, say, Bob Dylan for over 25 years ever gets asked a question like that.
everyone's avoiding the point that nobody, I mean absolutely no fucking one, can make "Know The Ledge" or "Bones In Ice Cream" or "Welcome To The Terrordome" in 2007. Obviously sampling is an issue, although I disagree that it has been replaced. Anyone who thinks that probably doesn't have much exposure to rap music because lots of records from this past year use samples (Rich Boy being an example). But also because the sound that the majority of people buying hip-hop want to hear is different. People can cry about it until dawn but that's just the reality.
Look, I am not a huge fan of punk. There's some stuff I love, lots of stuff I respect, and a ton of stuff in between I will never listen to on my own accord, despite possibly having a great deal of respect for the records. I like other subgenres and eras of rock music more and tend to follow different sounds. Doesn't mean that punk is bad or that it signalled rock's ending.
Same thing with hip-hop. Some of the more clued in among us may find this funny, but I am not a huge fan of old school rap. I don't mean '88 I mean '80. I don't see how someone who loves "Woooo! Ha ha ha haaaa! Grand groove, grand groove" could possibly moan about the simplicity of today's rap lyrics. Violence, drugs, misogyny? That I can understand. But simplicity? Shit man this is party music. Despite its not being exactly a rap record how is some of today's shit any different from Trouble Funk chanting "Some a yall from Southwest (uh huh!), some a yall from Northwest (uh huh!), some a yall from Southeast (uh huh!)... some of yall from the avenue (uh huh!)... now fee, fi, fo, fum, tell me where do you come from?"
There was a time in rap music of great lyrical complexity and vocal dexterity. That time is now in the past, but it influenced the genre overall, the same way the party chants of the old school did. The same way that freestyle and early keyboard or drum machine production influenced early bounce music pioneers, who in turn influence today's Southern sounds, the same way that people chop samples still. It's all part of the overall genre.
I have grown up listening to rap music. It's the one kind of music I feel is really a part of me, it's something I identify with, something I (used to) do, the way I dress, talk, and act. Although I may prefer certain aspects of it over others, I'm never going to write it off as "over" or lame or whatever. I'll just keep doing what I do, appreciating that which I like and discarding that which I don't. I still don't like free jazz but I don't like early New Orleans shit either. It's all music baby.
David Banner hit the nail on the head when he said that the people make "like a pimp" a hit, not him. you can blame the artists or the record producers but, like all commerce, its about supply and demand. that golden era hip hop sound was a niche market.
and by the way, since when has the majority of rap (or any music for that matter) been so lyrically profound?? you can be an enormously skilled rapper or singer who doesnt know shit about the world. people need to stop assuming that songwriters and rappers are to be looked at like authors and poets. some should, but most should not.
that being said, i think that hip hop is having a negative impact, not really on the youth, but on the young parents. the ever-hated bill cosby is right when he said parents are doing their kids a disservice by riding around blasting young jeezy and mimicking the shit they see on rap videos. its understanble when kids are having kids....but take a look around, there are 40 year old men reciting the lyrics of 18 year old kids. its not a good look!! kids are soo impressionable. they are gonna listen to rap, but the parents shouldn't be promoting the stereotypes. that shit is pure fantasyland for a majority of white and black people (mainstream rap that is).
Hey faux wtf are you talking about - ayres was just repping for the mims remix w/ junior reid, its not just me and archaic - its a good song, no one's saying its REVELATORY NEXT LEVEL HIP HOP but its FUN which i know is a really complicated concept for a bunch of uber-serious record nerds to grasp but come ON.
Hey faux wtf are you talking about - ayres was just repping for the mims remix w/ junior reid, its not just me and archaic - its a good song, no one's saying its REVELATORY NEXT LEVEL HIP HOP but its FUN which i know is a really complicated concept for a bunch of uber-serious record nerds to grasp but come ON.
I haven't heard the remix but when my wife and I first caught the original song off the radio, we both had the same thought: "is this a rap parody song?"
Despite being completely insipid, it is pretty catchy. I imagine that if Ghost is going to get all mad at D4L, he's gonna be super pissy at dudes in his own backyard jacking the same formula.
The only thing I find in rap today is that its darker than before. Not a lot of happy vibes in rap music, but I think that says more about the state of the world today than it does about music.
The only thing I find in rap today is that its darker than before. Not a lot of happy vibes in rap music, but I think that says more about the state of the world today than it does about music.
Darker than urban America's 80s era during the crack era?
I think your impression that hip-hop is darker says more about your perception of the state of the world than it does about music.
Personally, I have one or two issues with the whole "rap is youth music" thing. It's certainly become youth music, but surely that has as much to do with the way it's marketed as anything else. I certainly get a little curmudgeonly over the way everything seems to be so relentlessly aimed at snagging the teen dollar nowadays, as if anyone too long over the age of 30 couldn't possibly still be interested in rap, and if they are, it's only throwback-type shit they're bothered about.
Has anyone said that?
Acknowledging that rap is youth music is not at all the same as saying that nobody over 30 could or should enjoy it. It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle or that the production differs from the stuff you grew up with... or whatever other vaguely articulated gripes people on this board can come up with.
I mean, please point to that period in time when rap wasn't youth music. Old School pioneers = youths. Native Tongues = youths. Rakim, when he was at his peak = a youth. Mobb Deep, when they mattered = youths. Nas, when he recorded possibly rap's greatest album = a youth. And if these artists seemed like something else back then, perhaps it was because you curmudgeons were also youths at the time.
Hey faux wtf are you talking about - ayres was just repping for the mims remix w/ junior reid, its not just me and archaic - its a good song, no one's saying its REVELATORY NEXT LEVEL HIP HOP but its FUN which i know is a really complicated concept for a bunch of uber-serious record nerds to grasp but come ON.
Bwahahaha
You're really directing that to the wrong person, deej--everybody on here knows I am a rap populist with an appreciation for club or dance records. That does not mean that I will pretend that all such records are good, though, and that record is absolutely insipid.
Personally, I have one or two issues with the whole "rap is youth music" thing. It's certainly become youth music, but surely that has as much to do with the way it's marketed as anything else.
I'd like to see this broken down historically. Rap music didn't BECOME youth music. It started off as youth music (like most forms of Western pop music has). If the marketing seems to mirror this it's because few people have figured out how to market it to folks older than 30 because - rap music is youth music.
Like Faux said, doesn't mean older folks can't enjoy it, obviously.
It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle
I don't think rap ever refelcted the lifestyle of many of us. I'm a manager at a Canadian University. Last thing I want to hear is an MC rapping about project managment & meeting budgetary constraints.
Hey faux wtf are you talking about - ayres was just repping for the mims remix w/ junior reid, its not just me and archaic - its a good song, no one's saying its REVELATORY NEXT LEVEL HIP HOP but its FUN which i know is a really complicated concept for a bunch of uber-serious record nerds to grasp but come ON.
Bwahahaha
You're really directing that to the wrong person, deej--everybody on here knows I am a rap populist with an appreciation for club or dance records. That does not mean that I will pretend that all such records are good, though, and that record is absolutely insipid.
Do you party?
whatever dude...i'm not invested enough in the song to spend multiple posts defending it but this record is funny and catchy and the reggae version is crazy. I don't know why you would defend snap music and hate this. New York could use a whole lot more of this kind of shit to balance out all the po-faced serious BRINGING NEW YORK BACK bullshit legacy rap that has polluted their output of late.
Personally, I have one or two issues with the whole "rap is youth music" thing. It's certainly become youth music, but surely that has as much to do with the way it's marketed as anything else. I certainly get a little curmudgeonly over the way everything seems to be so relentlessly aimed at snagging the teen dollar nowadays, as if anyone too long over the age of 30 couldn't possibly still be interested in rap, and if they are, it's only throwback-type shit they're bothered about.
Has anyone said that?
Acknowledging that rap is youth music is not at all the same as saying that nobody over 30 could or should enjoy it. It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle or that the production differs from the stuff you grew up with... or whatever other vaguely articulated gripes people on this board can come up with.
I mean, please point to that period in time when rap wasn't youth music. Old School pioneers = youths. Native Tongues = youths. Rakim, when he was at his peak = a youth. Mobb Deep, when they mattered = youths. Nas, when he recorded possibly rap's greatest album = a youth. And if these artists seemed like something else back then, perhaps it was because you curmudgeons were also youths at the time.
They said the same thing about rock music. It just means that during that era, the birth of that genre was brought on by the youth. It doesn't continue to stay that way. Hasn't it been for the last 100 years, that most types of music started off as a youth movement? Sure, through it's birth and maturity stage over the last 20-30 years it's been pushed by the youth. But that doesn't mean it will be in the next 20-30 years.
It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle
I don't think rap ever refelcted the lifestyle of many of us. I'm a manager at a Canadian University. Last thing I want to hear is an MC rapping about project managment & meeting budgetary constraints.
I agree completely, and I think it's absurd for reflection of your own lifestyle to be a priority--or even a value--in what music you like.
But a lot of people on this site do have that bizarre expectation, or at least claim to when discussing rap.
Personally, I have one or two issues with the whole "rap is youth music" thing. It's certainly become youth music, but surely that has as much to do with the way it's marketed as anything else. I certainly get a little curmudgeonly over the way everything seems to be so relentlessly aimed at snagging the teen dollar nowadays, as if anyone too long over the age of 30 couldn't possibly still be interested in rap, and if they are, it's only throwback-type shit they're bothered about.
Has anyone said that?
Acknowledging that rap is youth music is not at all the same as saying that nobody over 30 could or should enjoy it. It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle or that the production differs from the stuff you grew up with... or whatever other vaguely articulated gripes people on this board can come up with.
I mean, please point to that period in time when rap wasn't youth music. Old School pioneers = youths. Native Tongues = youths. Rakim, when he was at his peak = a youth. Mobb Deep, when they mattered = youths. Nas, when he recorded possibly rap's greatest album = a youth. And if these artists seemed like something else back then, perhaps it was because you curmudgeons were also youths at the time.
They said the same thing about rock music. It just means that during that era, the birth of that genre was brought on by the youth. It doesn't continue to stay that way. Hasn't it been for the last 100 years, that most types of music started off as a youth movement? Sure, through it's birth and maturity stage over the last 20-30 years it's been pushed by the youth. But that doesn't mean it will be in the next 20-30 years.
This is the path that leads to prog-rap.
"I thought I could elevate the form by incorporating elements of classical music"
But a lot of people on this site do have that bizarre expectation, or at least claim to when discussing rap.
oh...i think the majority find it reasonable that you like rap that doesn't mirror your personal life story; so long as you openly admit that you don't really 'get it' and at best are a hipster-carpetbagger-poseur.
thankfully i only like rap about accounting, so i am in the clear.
Acknowledging that rap is youth music is not at all the same as saying that nobody over 30 could or should enjoy it. It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle or that the production differs from the stuff you grew up with.
On point. I am 32 years old and I bought both Raising Hell and Thug Motivation the day they came out. Hip-hop is fundamentally party music, the "conscious" stuff didn't happen until later when the form was relatively concretized. The first people to make "political" rap were local preachers and aldermen using the rap "craze" to cash in on their "community values." I'm so tired of dudes making these "Deceased!" claims only because the music made in a particular genre does not sound like the records that came out when they discovered the genre.
While I think that lyrically hip-hop is in a lull right now, it's countered with the fact that some of the hardest and most sophisticated beats I have ever heard have come out in the past five years.
Please allow the genre to grow without whining about some nostalgia bullshit. 20-something rap dudes are getting worse than 60-something jazz purists. If you don't like it, don't listen to it.
Acknowledging that rap is youth music is not at all the same as saying that nobody over 30 could or should enjoy it. It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle or that the production differs from the stuff you grew up with.
On point. I am 32 years old and I bought both Raising Hell and Thug Motivation the day they came out. Hip-hop is fundamentally party music, the "conscious" stuff didn't happen until later when the form was relatively concretized. The first people to make "political" rap were local preachers and aldermen using the rap "craze" to cash in on their "community values." I'm so tired of dudes making these "Deceased!" claims only because the music made in a particular genre does not sound like the records that came out when they discovered the genre.
While I think that lyrically hip-hop is in a lull right now, it's countered with the fact that some of the hardest and most sophisticated beats I have ever heard have come out in the past five years.
Please allow the genre to grow without whining about some nostalgia bullshit. 20-something rap dudes are getting worse than 60-something jazz purists. If you don't like it, don't listen to it.
While I think that lyrically hip-hop is in a lull right now
thats all they are saying. rap became the mainstream and is now forced to cater to america's fascination with negative stereotypes and stupid lyrics. when rap was a niche market, 15 year old white girls weren't reciting hip hop lyrics because, generally, rappers could never appeal to them. its not a niche market anymore, so rap stars dont have the same freedoms.
if nas could have started his career by rapping about his chain hanging low and sold 3 times as many records, he might have. who knows. i don't think nas is wrong but he just sounds like some nba dude from the 70s telling kobe he should have gone to college. its easy to say that when you never had the opportunity to become a millionaire at age 18. again, you can't blame the artists or the labels, its the consumers who dictate what gets put out there.
While I think that lyrically hip-hop is in a lull right now
thats all they are saying. rap became the mainstream and is now forced to cater to america's fascination with negative stereotypes and stupid lyrics. when rap was a niche market, 15 year old white girls weren't reciting hip hop lyrics because, generally, rappers could never appeal to them. its not a niche market anymore, so rap stars dont have the same freedoms.
if nas could have started his career by rapping about his chain hanging low and sold 3 times as many records, he might have. who knows. i don't think nas is wrong but he just sounds like some nba dude from the 70s telling kobe he should have gone to college. its easy to say that when you never had the opportunity to become a millionaire at age 18. again, you can't blame the artists or the labels, its the consumers who dictate what gets put out there.
I agree w this, largely
but 15 year old white girls have been listening to rap for YEARS don't just stand there bust a move
i also dont agree about 'lyrical hip-hop' being in any different of a position than it has been since at least the early 90s, that shit is always and has always been a niche - by definition. You dudes know that Illmatic wasn't exactly racing up the pop charts, right?
Albums like King are pretty damn lyrical period, southern rap has a number of really real lyricists going on right now.
The detractors might be bitching about the lyrics, but are they hearing these beats? I originally was drawn to this music because it was all about naked, raw rhythm and hard drum remainders. I'd so much rather hear some trap lyrics with progressive production than a dude rapping about the "old school" over doubles of "The Mexican." It is 2007, not 1977. Dudes constantly trying to relive 1989 is roughly equivalent to throwback rockabilly bands performing with pompadours and a stand-up bass. Style studies vs. actual progression.
I mean if we can agree that hip-hop's origins are in the party (girls, drugs, clubs), why wouldn't a young dude want to rap about how he is the cat that is supplying the drugs, making the money, laying the chicks and running the clubs? Sounds pretty hip-hop to me.
sound like the records that came out when they discovered the genre.
While I think that lyrically hip-hop is in a lull right now, it's countered with the fact that some of the hardest and most sophisticated beats I have ever heard have come out in the past five years.
This is exactly why I think I like rap so much right now. I am not a lyrical listener - I don't listen for insightful, thought-provoking lyricism, I just like bangin' beats, solid flow, some wit, some humor, a little absurdity every now and again.
People seem to get so uptight about this music right now. If you're listening to popular rap expecting to hear meaningful, heart-felt lyrics you can identify with, then you've missed the boat. I don't even notice the lyrics in a lot of this shit these days, and the lyrics I do notice are actually pretty damn witty and, in a simple way, pretty intelligent (no, I'm not talking about Mims). For me, it took a few listens and some time to absorb shit like Young Jeezy, Lil' Wayne and Jim Jones. I didn't like any of these 3 artists right off the bat, but I didn't just discard them either. Now they are 3 of my favorite rap artists of the past few years. They offer what I'm looking for and they suprise me from time to time with something I wasn't expecting. That's really what it's all about.
And it was mentioned before here, but there's so much hip hop out there right now, if you can't find something you enjoy, you either don't like rap or you're just being lazy. There's probably never been as much of a selection in rap music. Evar.
If you're listening to popular rap expecting to hear meaningful, heart-felt lyrics you can identify with, then you've missed the boat.
this is true to a degree - the pop charts aren't exactly littered with real talk - but you don't really have to dig that deep to find rappers who are touching on deeper themes than this is why they're hot.
I wonder if maybe the reason there's so much hate for snap and chicken noodle soup and mims is just because a lot of people aren't aware that there are other options, that if you dig a little bit (and i mean that as a metaphor - i'm not even talking 'dig' like noz finding cassette only b-sides or some shit) or pay attention to rap beyond the pop charts/TVT's crunk hits on one hand and critbait/conscious/hipster shit on the other you'd see there really is a lot of depth and balance in the game, even if that isn't represented by the pop charts on one hand and pitchforkmedia on the other.
If you're listening to popular rap expecting to hear meaningful, heart-felt lyrics you can identify with, then you've missed the boat.
this is true to a degree - the pop charts aren't exactly littered with real talk - but you don't really have to dig that deep to find rappers who are touching on deeper themes than this is why they're hot.
I wonder if maybe the reason there's so much hate for snap and chicken noodle soup and mims is just because a lot of people aren't aware that there are other options, that if you dig a little bit (and i mean that as a metaphor - i'm not even talking 'dig' like noz finding cassette only b-sides or some shit) or pay attention to rap beyond the pop charts/TVT's crunk hits on one hand and critbait/conscious/hipster shit on the other you'd see there really is a lot of depth and balance in the game, even if that isn't represented by the pop charts on one hand and pitchforkmedia on the other.
I don't think it's an either/or. I don't think hip-hop is dead. I do think the Mims song is dumb as fuck however.
The detractors might be bitching about the lyrics, but are they hearing these beats? I originally was drawn to this music because it was all about naked, raw rhythm and hard drum remainders. I'd so much rather hear some trap lyrics with progressive production than a dude rapping about the "old school" over doubles of "The Mexican." It is 2007, not 1977. Dudes constantly trying to relive 1989 is roughly equivalent to throwback rockabilly bands performing with pompadours and a stand-up bass. Style studies vs. actual progression.
I mean if we can agree that hip-hop's origins are in the party (girls, drugs, clubs), why wouldn't a young dude want to rap about how he is the cat that is supplying the drugs, making the money, laying the chicks and running the clubs? Sounds pretty hip-hop to me.
Yes but... Will hip hop always stay a youth oriented deal? Someone brought up Jazz. But maybe the reason there are 60 year old dudes talkin' that stuff, is because really, nobody else cares (Especially 99% of the youth crowd). If you can say to me that in 10, 20 or 30 years the youth will still be interested in Hip Hip, like they have been for the last 30 years, I'd believe you to be wrong. For the same reason the youth for almost any genre hasn't stuck to any other popular music form. Hip Hop can't remain a youngin's genre. it can only hope to keep pullin' in some of the youth from every era from now on. Now, if we're talkin about sub-genres from hip hop, thats a different deal...
It's just impossible for anything to remain popular. Especially with the youth.
Comments
I'm happy just to hear something that gets me excited these days, whether that's Ghost over "Know The Ledge" or something like "What Money Do". I tend to agree with Day's point that the general infantilisation of music is by no means exclusive to rap. Personally, I have one or two issues with the whole "rap is youth music" thing. It's certainly become youth music, but surely that has as much to do with the way it's marketed as anything else. I certainly get a little curmudgeonly over the way everything seems to be so relentlessly aimed at snagging the teen dollar nowadays, as if anyone too long over the age of 30 couldn't possibly still be interested in rap, and if they are, it's only throwback-type shit they're bothered about. Either way, bellyaching about nursery rhymes like "Chain Hang Low" is a waste of time. Like most rap, good or bad, it is what it is, so either love it or leave it alone. Nevertheless, there's a strong case, and maybe even a decent-sized potential audience for grown folks rap that isn't "Grown Folks Rap", if you know what I mean. The trouble with so much of the stuff that's trying to fill such a gap in the market is that it's, well, boring. Too much of it seems overly preoccupied with setting itself in opposition to what's currently popular, as if that alone is enough to make it worth listening to or spending money on. That, and sounding as though the people making it haven't listened to a new rap record since 1997.
I may have said this before on here, but when I get involved in conversations about rap with friends who don't really listen to it, or whose exposure to it is pretty limited, it's not long before some smartarse asks, "Aren't you a bit old to be listening to that stuff?" I seriously doubt that anyone who's listened to, say, Bob Dylan for over 25 years ever gets asked a question like that.
Look, I am not a huge fan of punk. There's some stuff I love, lots of stuff I respect, and a ton of stuff in between I will never listen to on my own accord, despite possibly having a great deal of respect for the records. I like other subgenres and eras of rock music more and tend to follow different sounds. Doesn't mean that punk is bad or that it signalled rock's ending.
Same thing with hip-hop. Some of the more clued in among us may find this funny, but I am not a huge fan of old school rap. I don't mean '88 I mean '80. I don't see how someone who loves "Woooo! Ha ha ha haaaa! Grand groove, grand groove" could possibly moan about the simplicity of today's rap lyrics. Violence, drugs, misogyny? That I can understand. But simplicity? Shit man this is party music. Despite its not being exactly a rap record how is some of today's shit any different from Trouble Funk chanting "Some a yall from Southwest (uh huh!), some a yall from Northwest (uh huh!), some a yall from Southeast (uh huh!)... some of yall from the avenue (uh huh!)... now fee, fi, fo, fum, tell me where do you come from?"
There was a time in rap music of great lyrical complexity and vocal dexterity. That time is now in the past, but it influenced the genre overall, the same way the party chants of the old school did. The same way that freestyle and early keyboard or drum machine production influenced early bounce music pioneers, who in turn influence today's Southern sounds, the same way that people chop samples still. It's all part of the overall genre.
I have grown up listening to rap music. It's the one kind of music I feel is really a part of me, it's something I identify with, something I (used to) do, the way I dress, talk, and act. Although I may prefer certain aspects of it over others, I'm never going to write it off as "over" or lame or whatever. I'll just keep doing what I do, appreciating that which I like and discarding that which I don't. I still don't like free jazz but I don't like early New Orleans shit either. It's all music baby.
and by the way, since when has the majority of rap (or any music for that matter) been so lyrically profound?? you can be an enormously skilled rapper or singer who doesnt know shit about the world. people need to stop assuming that songwriters and rappers are to be looked at like authors and poets. some should, but most should not.
that being said, i think that hip hop is having a negative impact, not really on the youth, but on the young parents. the ever-hated bill cosby is right when he said parents are doing their kids a disservice by riding around blasting young jeezy and mimicking the shit they see on rap videos. its understanble when kids are having kids....but take a look around, there are 40 year old men reciting the lyrics of 18 year old kids. its not a good look!! kids are soo impressionable. they are gonna listen to rap, but the parents shouldn't be promoting the stereotypes. that shit is pure fantasyland for a majority of white and black people (mainstream rap that is).
I haven't heard the remix but when my wife and I first caught the original song off the radio, we both had the same thought: "is this a rap parody song?"
Despite being completely insipid, it is pretty catchy. I imagine that if Ghost is going to get all mad at D4L, he's gonna be super pissy at dudes in his own backyard jacking the same formula.
Darker than urban America's 80s era during the crack era?
I think your impression that hip-hop is darker says more about your perception of the state of the world than it does about music.
Has anyone said that?
Acknowledging that rap is youth music is not at all the same as saying that nobody over 30 could or should enjoy it. It simply means appreciating it on its own terms and not getting mad that the lyrical content doesn't represent your current lifestyle or that the production differs from the stuff you grew up with... or whatever other vaguely articulated gripes people on this board can come up with.
I mean, please point to that period in time when rap wasn't youth music. Old School pioneers = youths. Native Tongues = youths. Rakim, when he was at his peak = a youth. Mobb Deep, when they mattered = youths. Nas, when he recorded possibly rap's greatest album = a youth. And if these artists seemed like something else back then, perhaps it was because you curmudgeons were also youths at the time.
and there's plenty of grown man rap if you want to find it
Bwahahaha
You're really directing that to the wrong person, deej--everybody on here knows I am a rap populist with an appreciation for club or dance records. That does not mean that I will pretend that all such records are good, though, and that record is absolutely insipid.
Do you party?
I don't think rap ever refelcted the lifestyle of many of us. I'm a manager at a Canadian University. Last thing I want to hear is an MC rapping about project managment & meeting budgetary constraints.
whatever dude...i'm not invested enough in the song to spend multiple posts defending it but this record is funny and catchy and the reggae version is crazy. I don't know why you would defend snap music and hate this. New York could use a whole lot more of this kind of shit to balance out all the po-faced serious BRINGING NEW YORK BACK bullshit legacy rap that has polluted their output of late.
They said the same thing about rock music. It just means that during that era, the birth of that genre was brought on by the youth. It doesn't continue to stay that way. Hasn't it been for the last 100 years, that most types of music started off as a youth movement? Sure, through it's birth and maturity stage over the last 20-30 years it's been pushed by the youth. But that doesn't mean it will be in the next 20-30 years.
I agree completely, and I think it's absurd for reflection of your own lifestyle to be a priority--or even a value--in what music you like.
But a lot of people on this site do have that bizarre expectation, or at least claim to when discussing rap.
This is the path that leads to prog-rap.
"I thought I could elevate the form by incorporating elements of classical music"
oh...i think the majority find it reasonable that you like rap that doesn't mirror your personal life story; so long as you openly admit that you don't really 'get it' and at best are a hipster-carpetbagger-poseur.
thankfully i only like rap about accounting, so i am in the clear.
On point.
I am 32 years old and I bought both Raising Hell and Thug Motivation the day they came out.
Hip-hop is fundamentally party music, the "conscious" stuff didn't happen until later when the form was relatively concretized.
The first people to make "political" rap were local preachers and aldermen using the rap "craze" to cash in on their "community values."
I'm so tired of dudes making these "Deceased!" claims only because the music made in a particular genre does not sound like the records that came out when they discovered the genre.
While I think that lyrically hip-hop is in a lull right now, it's countered with the fact that some of the hardest and most sophisticated beats I have ever heard have come out in the past five years.
Please allow the genre to grow without whining about some nostalgia bullshit.
20-something rap dudes are getting worse than 60-something jazz purists.
If you don't like it, don't listen to it.
thats all they are saying. rap became the mainstream and is now forced to cater to america's fascination with negative stereotypes and stupid lyrics. when rap was a niche market, 15 year old white girls weren't reciting hip hop lyrics because, generally, rappers could never appeal to them. its not a niche market anymore, so rap stars dont have the same freedoms.
if nas could have started his career by rapping about his chain hanging low and sold 3 times as many records, he might have. who knows. i don't think nas is wrong but he just sounds like some nba dude from the 70s telling kobe he should have gone to college. its easy to say that when you never had the opportunity to become a millionaire at age 18. again, you can't blame the artists or the labels, its the consumers who dictate what gets put out there.
but 15 year old white girls have been listening to rap for YEARS
don't just stand there bust a move
i also dont agree about 'lyrical hip-hop' being in any different of a position than it has been since at least the early 90s, that shit is always and has always been a niche - by definition. You dudes know that Illmatic wasn't exactly racing up the pop charts, right?
Albums like King are pretty damn lyrical period, southern rap has a number of really real lyricists going on right now.
I originally was drawn to this music because it was all about naked, raw rhythm and hard drum remainders.
I'd so much rather hear some trap lyrics with progressive production than a dude rapping about the "old school" over doubles of "The Mexican."
It is 2007, not 1977.
Dudes constantly trying to relive 1989 is roughly equivalent to throwback rockabilly bands performing with pompadours and a stand-up bass.
Style studies vs. actual progression.
I mean if we can agree that hip-hop's origins are in the party (girls, drugs, clubs), why wouldn't a young dude want to rap about how he is the cat that is supplying the drugs, making the money, laying the chicks and running the clubs?
Sounds pretty hip-hop to me.
This is exactly why I think I like rap so much right now. I am not a lyrical listener - I don't listen for insightful, thought-provoking lyricism, I just like bangin' beats, solid flow, some wit, some humor, a little absurdity every now and again.
People seem to get so uptight about this music right now. If you're listening to popular rap expecting to hear meaningful, heart-felt lyrics you can identify with, then you've missed the boat. I don't even notice the lyrics in a lot of this shit these days, and the lyrics I do notice are actually pretty damn witty and, in a simple way, pretty intelligent (no, I'm not talking about Mims). For me, it took a few listens and some time to absorb shit like Young Jeezy, Lil' Wayne and Jim Jones. I didn't like any of these 3 artists right off the bat, but I didn't just discard them either. Now they are 3 of my favorite rap artists of the past few years. They offer what I'm looking for and they suprise me from time to time with something I wasn't expecting. That's really what it's all about.
And it was mentioned before here, but there's so much hip hop out there right now, if you can't find something you enjoy, you either don't like rap or you're just being lazy. There's probably never been as much of a selection in rap music. Evar.
I wonder if maybe the reason there's so much hate for snap and chicken noodle soup and mims is just because a lot of people aren't aware that there are other options, that if you dig a little bit (and i mean that as a metaphor - i'm not even talking 'dig' like noz finding cassette only b-sides or some shit) or pay attention to rap beyond the pop charts/TVT's crunk hits on one hand and critbait/conscious/hipster shit on the other you'd see there really is a lot of depth and balance in the game, even if that isn't represented by the pop charts on one hand and pitchforkmedia on the other.
I don't think it's an either/or. I don't think hip-hop is dead. I do think the Mims song is dumb as fuck however.
Can't I have it both ways?
Yes but... Will hip hop always stay a youth oriented deal? Someone brought up Jazz. But maybe the reason there are 60 year old dudes talkin' that stuff, is because really, nobody else cares (Especially 99% of the youth crowd). If you can say to me that in 10, 20 or 30 years the youth will still be interested in Hip Hip, like they have been for the last 30 years, I'd believe you to be wrong. For the same reason the youth for almost any genre hasn't stuck to any other popular music form. Hip Hop can't remain a youngin's genre. it can only hope to keep pullin' in some of the youth from every era from now on. Now, if we're talkin about sub-genres from hip hop, thats a different deal...
It's just impossible for anything to remain popular. Especially with the youth.