I can tell you personally, as someone who has ALWAYS liked rap, I really feel burnt out on it and I've had people tell me the exact same thing (even your PM partner ). I really can't call it. I don't think it's a matter of getting older so much as rap seems more like fast food than music these days.
I don't accept that. There's a lot more rap now than at any previous point; technology has made recording and disseminating it that much more accessible and there are a lot more people interested in doing so. So there's that much more dross.
But if you can't find current rap recordings that make you feel like it remains a vital form, then you're just lazy. If you're dependant on Clear Channel and Viacom for your exposure to new rap, that's your problem. Or maybe you're too old for it--but again, that's your problem, not rap's problem.
If anyone wants to offer a nuanced argument for why contemporary rap no longer speaks to them, I'll respect it, although I'll still probably come back to the idea that the disconnect is in the fact that while rap remains youth music, the person doing the griping is approaching middle age.
As for the "pass the Chili Peppers, brah" cornballs, though? Fuck 'em--seriously.
If anyone wants to offer a nuanced argument for why contemporary rap no longer speaks to them, I'll respect it, although I'll still probably come back to the idea that the disconnect is in the fact that while rap remains youth music, the person doing the griping is approaching middle age.
do you really feel that approaching middle age makes rap that much less appealing? It doesn't make sense to me. If you like a type of music and actively listen and discuss it but you simply aren't finding the pleasure in it you once did it could very well be cause the tide has changed and the music is just not what it once was.
getting older doesn't automatically make hip-hop that less listenable
Getting older can push a person out of the target audience range. where as their age group was one that the music targeted earlier. While the music has not changed its target market, the market has shifted a generation. Those that enjoied a genre of music that really spoke to them feel that it no longer does.
I can tell you personally, as someone who has ALWAYS liked rap, I really feel burnt out on it and I've had people tell me the exact same thing (even your PM partner ). I really can't call it. I don't think it's a matter of getting older so much as rap seems more like fast food than music these days.
I don't accept that. There's a lot more rap now than at any previous point; technology has made recording and disseminating it that much more accessible and there are a lot more people interested in doing so. So there's that much more dross.
But if you can't find current rap recordings that make you feel like it remains a vital form, then you're just lazy. If you're dependant on Clear Channel and Viacom for your exposure to new rap, that's your problem. Or maybe you're too old for it--but again, that's your problem, not rap's problem.
If anyone wants to offer a nuanced argument for why contemporary rap no longer speaks to them, I'll respect it, although I'll still probably come back to the idea that the disconnect is in the fact that while rap remains youth music, the person doing the griping is approaching middle age.
As for the "pass the Chili Peppers, brah" cornballs, though? Fuck 'em--seriously.
Who is my PM partner?
This always comes back to the same argument of age vs. relevance. It's hard for me to say for sure what the case is with me. I definitley still like rap and I don't rely on the outlets you mentioned to find it, but the Mims lyrics I quoted are a perfect example of why I feel the way I do. Shit is straight up disposable music*. You want to honestly tell me anyone in this game who isn't doing it solely as a hustle? It shows in what they create. And therein lies the whole problem for me. Alot of songs I hear just feel soul-less.
And Faux, I can understand cats like Ayres having to stay up on what to play in the club (and of course, the dude likes rap), but like you said, "rap remains youth music" so tell me, what does a 30 year old man get from listening to music that's designed for 14 year olds?
I know Stacks can sum up all this shit much better than I can.
*I won't single out rap, I think music in general has become disposable, but that's a whole other topic.
getting older doesn't automatically make hip-hop that less listenable
do you listen to everything you listened to when you were 17 or have your tastes mellowed out a bit as you've gotten older?
honestly, I think that the majority of soulstrut posters are special cases and have some sick need to find more music to enjoy. When I was 17 I was so single-minded that buying something non-Rap was unthinkable. Do I still dig a lot of the stuff I was listening to back in '97? For the most part yes and in the time since I've grown to appreciate jazz, soul, rock, country and other things.
Possibly more telling would be asking myself if I would have like Young Jeezy or Mims had they come out back in '97 and truthfully my backpack was so surgically tight on my back that I would've probably had the same view. I'll put myself out on a limb here and say Day may have been in the same position.
I really do feel that the watered down rap of today is just so much worse (and prevalent) than the watered down rap of yesteryear.
day, MOST top 40 singles are going to be disposable songs because they cater to a certain audience. there is still a lot of good rap music being released for the top 40 audience and others. i find myself looking more into regional rap shit and finding more and more stuff i never heard of but find good. just in the next month, devin, ugk, and eightball and mjg are releasing albums. i don't even know what else is being released this year but shit, i would be happy with just those three for the entire year. i dont even know what this post is on anymore but work is done so im out
I can tell you personally, as someone who has ALWAYS liked rap, I really feel burnt out on it and I've had people tell me the exact same thing (even your PM partner ). I really can't call it. I don't think it's a matter of getting older so much as rap seems more like fast food than music these days.
I don't accept that. There's a lot more rap now than at any previous point; technology has made recording and disseminating it that much more accessible and there are a lot more people interested in doing so. So there's that much more dross.
But if you can't find current rap recordings that make you feel like it remains a vital form, then you're just lazy. If you're dependant on Clear Channel and Viacom for your exposure to new rap, that's your problem. Or maybe you're too old for it--but again, that's your problem, not rap's problem.
If anyone wants to offer a nuanced argument for why contemporary rap no longer speaks to them, I'll respect it, although I'll still probably come back to the idea that the disconnect is in the fact that while rap remains youth music, the person doing the griping is approaching middle age.
As for the "pass the Chili Peppers, brah" cornballs, though? Fuck 'em--seriously.
Who is my PM partner?
This always comes back to the same argument of age vs. relavance. It's hard for me to say for sure what the case is with me. I definitley still like rap and I don't rely on the outlets you mentioned to find it, but the Mims lyrics I quoted are a perfect example of why I feel the way I do. Shit is straight up disposable music*. You want to honestly tell me anyone in this game who isn't doing it solely as a hustle? It shows in what they create. And therein lies the whole problem for me. Alot of songs I hear just feel soul-less.
And Faux, I can understand cats like Ayres having to stay up on what to play in the club (and of course, the dude likes rap), but like you said, "rap remains youth music" so tell me, what does a 30 year old man get from listening to music that's designed for 14 year olds?
*I won't single out rap, I think music in general has become disposable, but that's a whole other topic.
I know Stacks can sum up all this shit much better than I can!
Dude, please stop talking about that Mims record--that is the worst schitt to come out in recent memory. Everybody except deej and Shied agrees that it's an abomination--it is not a representative work; it is, instead, the very bottom of the barrel.
And you're the first person to mention 14 year olds--I definitely didn't say anything about music for people that age. I said "youth music" and, when your in your thirties, "youth" can refer to a pretty broad swathe of people younger than yourself. What does a person in their thirties get out of listening to youth music? You tell me--what do you get out of listening to the youth music from previous eras of rap, that still resonates with you? Because it's certainly not more sophisticated subjectwise, in aggregate, than the rap that's popular today. Than what T.I. or Z-Ro or Nas are doing. Or what about all the other youth-oriented movements in Black and Latin music over the past half-century? Do you see value in boogaloo? Or girl groups? That's consummate youth music.
When I first heard "Hip-hop is Dead", i thought oh okay, it's a sped up version of Thief's theme. Whatever. On Saturday, I heard it at the bar, and I was feelin' it.
Most of the lyrics today are bogus. Rhyme styles take no talent. Music is...dumb.
Seriously, what do you folks FEEL in this music, I really would like to know.
getting older doesn't automatically make hip-hop that less listenable
do you listen to everything you listened to when you were 17 or have your tastes mellowed out a bit as you've gotten older?
honestly, I think that the majority of soulstrut posters are special cases and have some sick need to find more music to enjoy. When I was 17 I was so single-minded that buying something non-Rap was unthinkable. Do I still dig a lot of the stuff I was listening to back in '97? For the most part yes and in the time since I've grown to appreciate jazz, soul, rock, country and other things.
Possibly more telling would be asking myself if I would have like Young Jeezy or Mims had they come out back in '97 and truthfully my backpack was so surgically tight on my back that I would've probably had the same view. I'll put myself out on a limb here and say Day may have been in the same position.
I really do feel that the watered down rap of today is just so much worse (and prevalent) than the watered down rap of yesteryear.
Guzzo all I'm saying is in high school I was listening to a lot of rap and punk rock. The older I get the less I want to listen to that stuff and the more I want to listen to disco, r&b - more grown genres of music. Don't get me wrong I still love hip-hop and Fugazi and whatever else but folks' tastes mellow as they get older. There is a real tendency to go soft - clearly that's more about the listener than about the quality of the music. I won't let go though, in part because, as Day pointed out, it's my job to stay up on current music and try to sift some gems from all the shit. But I do really feel a lot of current rap music and honestly if you can't find anything to like then you've either gone soft or you're not trying hard enough.
Seriously, what do you folks FEEL in this music, I really would like to know.
As someone who buys (or downloads) maybe 2% of the hip hop I did 15-20 years ago, I'll just say that I turn the truck radio up to 3x volume everytime "We Fly High" comes on, which is every 40 minutes or so. And it's been going on for months.
So, it's still alive to me. Maybe you guys are too close to it.
I'm confused - how is it that we have this exact same conversation every week or so?
Regardless, I'm with the "if it sounds wack, maybe it's you" school for a few reasons:
1) I recognize that my tastes are always evolving. Things I used to be all up into now don't move me (fusion jazz, holla!). Things I didn't use to like are now the best things ever (sweet soul). If hip-hop doesn't hit me in the grill the same way as when I was 17, maybe it's because I'm 34. Context matters.
2) I don't doubt that hip-hop has changed but to argue for-the-better-or-for-the-worse requires some kind of formalist, "objective" criteria on which to base such a claim and though I'm not above using a formalist approach to criticism, I'm also wary of trying to slap down a set of standards on something as incredibly subjective as cultural tastes. The best you can hope for, sometimes, is to just make the best case for why something is good or why it's not and hope that it's true to yourself regardless if anyone else cosigns.
In other words, if hip-hop is dead to YOU, there's nothing wrong with saying that. But to insist that it must also be dead to others? That's just pretentious.
We fly high, No Lie ,You know this (BALLIN!) Hips and Thighs, Oh my, Stay focus
Slow Down, Tonight may be gone tommorow (One Chance!) So I speed thu life like theres no tommorow (Speedin!) 100 g's worth of ice on the Auto? (Flossy) And we in the street life until they call the law(BALLIN!) I made the whip get naked (What Happen !?) While I switch gears, Bitch lookin at the bracelet (Got Em) Step out, show me what your all about Flashbacks of last night of me ballin out (Harlem!) 1 a.m. we was at the club (What Happen !?) 2 a.m. Ten bottles of bub (Money ain't a thing) And about 3 somethin I was thinkin about grub
WACK times 1000!
I'm not down with DUMB music, period. Which means I probably won't like most of that South shit, Bay shit, Diplomats, whatever else. It's a preference for a type of sound, nothing more, nothing less. I'd rather much listen to some old man rap revivalist shit than this other stuff.
I don't feel like getting into all this. I'll just say there would be no debate if it had no merit.
That's an absurd copout.
Sorry, but it is. "A majority of the country wouldn't have voted for W if his positions had no merit!"
Happy to continue the discussion some other time, though.
I was just trying to slide out as easily as possible.
I feel your points all around ( ) and would be fine continuting another time. I just don't have the desire to get into this whole thing right now. I will say I'm looking forward to the new Devin, what I've heard from the Rich Boy record sounds good, Wale is about to blow up, yaddayaddayadda. I'm not playing shuffleboard listening to Mecca and the SoulBrother on repeat...yet.
We fly high, No Lie ,You know this (BALLIN!) Hips and Thighs, Oh my, Stay focus
Slow Down, Tonight may be gone tommorow (One Chance!) So I speed thu life like theres no tommorow (Speedin!) 100 g's worth of ice on the Auto? (Flossy) And we in the street life until they call the law(BALLIN!) I made the whip get naked (What Happen !?) While I switch gears, Bitch lookin at the bracelet (Got Em) Step out, show me what your all about Flashbacks of last night of me ballin out (Harlem!) 1 a.m. we was at the club (What Happen !?) 2 a.m. Ten bottles of bub (Money ain't a thing) And about 3 somethin I was thinkin about grub
WACK times 1000!
I'm not down with DUMB music, period. Which means I probably won't like most of that South shit, Bay shit, Diplomats, whatever else.
Well, that might also mean you don't like tons of "pop" hits from the past that didn't have the most intellectually stimulating lyrics ever written but were still good songs. There's more to making a song "good" than how much it tests one's IQ. The Ronettes' "Be My Baby" isn't mensa-level songwriting but it's "Be My Baby"! Shit is awesome!
I'm not down with DUMB music, period. Which means I probably won't like most of that South shit, Bay shit, Diplomats, whatever else. It's a preference for a type of sound, nothing more, nothing less. I'd rather much listen to some old man rap revivalist shit than this other stuff.
getting older doesn't automatically make hip-hop that less listenable
do you listen to everything you listened to when you were 17 or have your tastes mellowed out a bit as you've gotten older?
honestly, I think that the majority of soulstrut posters are special cases and have some sick need to find more music to enjoy. When I was 17 I was so single-minded that buying something non-Rap was unthinkable. Do I still dig a lot of the stuff I was listening to back in '97? For the most part yes and in the time since I've grown to appreciate jazz, soul, rock, country and other things.
Possibly more telling would be asking myself if I would have like Young Jeezy or Mims had they come out back in '97 and truthfully my backpack was so surgically tight on my back that I would've probably had the same view. I'll put myself out on a limb here and say Day may have been in the same position.
I really do feel that the watered down rap of today is just so much worse (and prevalent) than the watered down rap of yesteryear.
Guzzo all I'm saying is in high school I was listening to a lot of rap and punk rock. The older I get the less I want to listen to that stuff and the more I want to listen to disco, r&b - more grown genres of music. Don't get me wrong I still love hip-hop and Fugazi and whatever else but folks' tastes mellow as they get older. There is a real tendency to go soft - clearly that's more about the listener than about the quality of the music. I won't let go though, in part because, as Day pointed out, it's my job to stay up on current music and try to sift some gems from all the shit. But I do really feel a lot of current rap music and honestly if you can't find anything to like then you've either gone soft or you're not trying hard enough.
I understand what you're saying. I've also thought about hip-hop nowadays as almost a different genre from the hip-hop of 10 years ago. Sure they share the same name and they both have people rapping over its music but there are so many other major differences. sampling for the most part has been replaced by the keyboard and for those that argue that both have prevalent now and then they may have but not in the same manner. sounds have changed (not evolved, but changed) and although they share the same roots the music of the mid-to-late 90's is pretty much easy to aurally separate from today???s tracks.
On a somewhat separate note I listened to the Bishop Lamont mix tape today and that shit was heavily on point, lots of nods to the hip-hop of yesterday and opinions on the rap of today.
I'm not down with DUMB music, period. Which means I probably won't like most of that South shit, Bay shit, Diplomats, whatever else. It's a preference for a type of sound, nothing more, nothing less. I'd rather much listen to some old man rap revivalist shit than this other stuff.
We fly high, No Lie ,You know this (BALLIN!) Hips and Thighs, Oh my, Stay focus
Slow Down, Tonight may be gone tommorow (One Chance!) So I speed thu life like theres no tommorow (Speedin!) 100 g's worth of ice on the Auto? (Flossy) And we in the street life until they call the law(BALLIN!) I made the whip get naked (What Happen !?) While I switch gears, Bitch lookin at the bracelet (Got Em) Step out, show me what your all about Flashbacks of last night of me ballin out (Harlem!) 1 a.m. we was at the club (What Happen !?) 2 a.m. Ten bottles of bub (Money ain't a thing) And about 3 somethin I was thinkin about grub
WACK times 1000!
I'm not down with DUMB music, period. Which means I probably won't like most of that South shit, Bay shit, Diplomats, whatever else.
Well, that might also mean you don't like tons of "pop" hits from the past that didn't have the most intellectually stimulating lyrics ever written but were still good songs. There's more to making a song "good" than how much it tests one's IQ. The Ronettes' "Be My Baby" isn't mensa-level songwriting but it's "Be My Baby"! Shit is awesome!
Certainly. Song structure, melodies, all of that too. It's the total package for me.
Seriously, who cares what the lyrics to "We Fly High" are? If you are listening to hip hop for lyrical content ALL THE TIME then life can't be too fun. Shit has a sick intro, a bangin beat and a catchy chorus. There's always been room in hip hop for intelligent tracks and dumb ass party shit. It's jeep music - not politics.
Comments
I don't accept that. There's a lot more rap now than at any previous point; technology has made recording and disseminating it that much more accessible and there are a lot more people interested in doing so. So there's that much more dross.
But if you can't find current rap recordings that make you feel like it remains a vital form, then you're just lazy. If you're dependant on Clear Channel and Viacom for your exposure to new rap, that's your problem. Or maybe you're too old for it--but again, that's your problem, not rap's problem.
If anyone wants to offer a nuanced argument for why contemporary rap no longer speaks to them, I'll respect it, although I'll still probably come back to the idea that the disconnect is in the fact that while rap remains youth music, the person doing the griping is approaching middle age.
As for the "pass the Chili Peppers, brah" cornballs, though? Fuck 'em--seriously.
Who is my PM partner?
he wers a bunny suit and kufi
act like you know
hahaha! Nice Ayres
do you really feel that approaching middle age makes rap that much less appealing? It doesn't make sense to me. If you like a type of music and actively listen and discuss it but you simply aren't finding the pleasure in it you once did it could very well be cause the tide has changed and the music is just not what it once was.
getting older doesn't automatically make hip-hop that less listenable
do you listen to everything you listened to when you were 17 or have your tastes mellowed out a bit as you've gotten older?
This always comes back to the same argument of age vs. relevance.
It's hard for me to say for sure what the case is with me. I definitley still like rap and I don't rely on the outlets you mentioned to find it, but the Mims lyrics I quoted are a perfect example of why I feel the way I do. Shit is straight up disposable music*. You want to honestly tell me anyone in this game who isn't doing it solely as a hustle? It shows in what they create. And therein lies the whole problem for me. Alot of songs I hear just feel soul-less.
And Faux, I can understand cats like Ayres having to stay up on what to play in the club (and of course, the dude likes rap), but like you said, "rap remains youth music" so tell me, what does a 30 year old man get from listening to music that's designed for 14 year olds?
I know Stacks can sum up all this shit much better than I can.
*I won't single out rap, I think music in general has become disposable, but that's a whole other topic.
honestly, I think that the majority of soulstrut posters are special cases and have some sick need to find more music to enjoy. When I was 17 I was so single-minded that buying something non-Rap was unthinkable. Do I still dig a lot of the stuff I was listening to back in '97? For the most part yes and in the time since I've grown to appreciate jazz, soul, rock, country and other things.
Possibly more telling would be asking myself if I would have like Young Jeezy or Mims had they come out back in '97 and truthfully my backpack was so surgically tight on my back that I would've probably had the same view. I'll put myself out on a limb here and say Day may have been in the same position.
I really do feel that the watered down rap of today is just so much worse (and prevalent) than the watered down rap of yesteryear.
Dude, please stop talking about that Mims record--that is the worst schitt to come out in recent memory. Everybody except deej and Shied agrees that it's an abomination--it is not a representative work; it is, instead, the very bottom of the barrel.
And you're the first person to mention 14 year olds--I definitely didn't say anything about music for people that age. I said "youth music" and, when your in your thirties, "youth" can refer to a pretty broad swathe of people younger than yourself. What does a person in their thirties get out of listening to youth music? You tell me--what do you get out of listening to the youth music from previous eras of rap, that still resonates with you? Because it's certainly not more sophisticated subjectwise, in aggregate, than the rap that's popular today. Than what T.I. or Z-Ro or Nas are doing. Or what about all the other youth-oriented movements in Black and Latin music over the past half-century? Do you see value in boogaloo? Or girl groups? That's consummate youth music.
sayin.
All you dudes sound like wynton marsallis. NAGL.
Most of the lyrics today are bogus. Rhyme styles take no talent. Music is...dumb.
Seriously, what do you folks FEEL in this music, I really would like to know.
I'll just say there would be no debate if it had no merit.
Guzzo all I'm saying is in high school I was listening to a lot of rap and punk rock. The older I get the less I want to listen to that stuff and the more I want to listen to disco, r&b - more grown genres of music. Don't get me wrong I still love hip-hop and Fugazi and whatever else but folks' tastes mellow as they get older. There is a real tendency to go soft - clearly that's more about the listener than about the quality of the music. I won't let go though, in part because, as Day pointed out, it's my job to stay up on current music and try to sift some gems from all the shit. But I do really feel a lot of current rap music and honestly if you can't find anything to like then you've either gone soft or you're not trying hard enough.
That's an absurd copout.
Sorry, but it is. "A majority of the country wouldn't have voted for W if his positions had no merit!"
Happy to continue the discussion some other time, though.
As someone who buys (or downloads) maybe 2% of the hip hop I
did 15-20 years ago, I'll just say that I turn the truck radio
up to 3x volume everytime "We Fly High" comes on, which is every
40 minutes or so. And it's been going on for months.
So, it's still alive to me. Maybe you guys are too close to it.
Regardless, I'm with the "if it sounds wack, maybe it's you" school for a few reasons:
1) I recognize that my tastes are always evolving. Things I used to be all up into now don't move me (fusion jazz, holla!). Things I didn't use to like are now the best things ever (sweet soul). If hip-hop doesn't hit me in the grill the same way as when I was 17, maybe it's because I'm 34. Context matters.
2) I don't doubt that hip-hop has changed but to argue for-the-better-or-for-the-worse requires some kind of formalist, "objective" criteria on which to base such a claim and though I'm not above using a formalist approach to criticism, I'm also wary of trying to slap down a set of standards on something as incredibly subjective as cultural tastes. The best you can hope for, sometimes, is to just make the best case for why something is good or why it's not and hope that it's true to yourself regardless if anyone else cosigns.
In other words, if hip-hop is dead to YOU, there's nothing wrong with saying that. But to insist that it must also be dead to others? That's just pretentious.
We fly high, No Lie ,You know this (BALLIN!)
Hips and Thighs, Oh my, Stay focus
Slow Down, Tonight may be gone tommorow (One Chance!)
So I speed thu life like theres no tommorow (Speedin!)
100 g's worth of ice on the Auto? (Flossy)
And we in the street life until they call the law(BALLIN!)
I made the whip get naked (What Happen !?)
While I switch gears, Bitch lookin at the bracelet (Got Em)
Step out, show me what your all about
Flashbacks of last night of me ballin out (Harlem!)
1 a.m. we was at the club (What Happen !?)
2 a.m. Ten bottles of bub (Money ain't a thing)
And about 3 somethin I was thinkin about grub
WACK times 1000!
I'm not down with DUMB music, period. Which means I probably won't like most of that South shit, Bay shit, Diplomats, whatever else. It's a preference for a type of sound, nothing more, nothing less. I'd rather much listen to some old man rap revivalist shit than this other stuff.
I was just trying to slide out as easily as possible.
I feel your points all around (
I will say I'm looking forward to the new Devin, what I've heard from the Rich Boy record sounds good, Wale is about to blow up, yaddayaddayadda. I'm not playing shuffleboard listening to Mecca and the SoulBrother on repeat...yet.
Well, that might also mean you don't like tons of "pop" hits from the past that didn't have the most intellectually stimulating lyrics ever written but were still good songs. There's more to making a song "good" than how much it tests one's IQ. The Ronettes' "Be My Baby" isn't mensa-level songwriting but it's "Be My Baby"! Shit is awesome!
I understand what you're saying. I've also thought about hip-hop nowadays as almost a different genre from the hip-hop of 10 years ago. Sure they share the same name and they both have people rapping over its music but there are so many other major differences. sampling for the most part has been replaced by the keyboard and for those that argue that both have prevalent now and then they may have but not in the same manner. sounds have changed (not evolved, but changed) and although they share the same roots the music of the mid-to-late 90's is pretty much easy to aurally separate from today???s tracks.
On a somewhat separate note I listened to the Bishop Lamont mix tape today and that shit was heavily on point, lots of nods to the hip-hop of yesterday and opinions on the rap of today.
Faux:[/b] have you listened to it yet?
That's wack.
Certainly. Song structure, melodies, all of that too. It's the total package for me.
If you are listening to hip hop for lyrical content ALL THE TIME
then life can't be too fun. Shit has a sick intro, a bangin beat
and a catchy chorus. There's always been room in hip hop for intelligent
tracks and dumb ass party shit. It's jeep music - not politics.