Does anyone else find these troubling? My school is having one this Friday and like most pimp and ho themed parties I've seen, it will be a roomful of Caucasians wearing afros and posturing like they're in a lame hiphop video. Why is this acceptable? Not only is it exceptionally poor taste (almost as bad as James Bond "Dress To Kill" parties), but non-black people dressing up like blaxploitation extras smacks of blackface. I know for a fact that the Maritimers out here wouldn't take kindly to a Sailors and Bum Boys party.
If I ever went to aparty like that, I would have to dress in the car, because if I ever left the house like that I would fully expect to be beat-upo, and be dissapointed in my neigbors if I wasn't.
If you live in America and don???t think about race, two things are true: you???re white, and you???re a racist.
well, I'll chime in one last time since it was my edited quote that set off guzzo's:
I truly believe that America is a racist country, and that ANYONE born and raised here has racist tendencies. Even if it's on some "Asian women are terrible drivers" type shit. And don't give me any "well, stereotypes exist for a reason" logic: STEREOTYPES ARE RACIST.
(and why the hell is my shit all enclosed in quotes?!?! I can't figure it out)
Honestly trying to find logic in what Guzzo is saying and arguing against him is a total waste of time. You're better off hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. This shit is so tired. It was kind of an interesting discussion until Guzzo came in and derailed it talking about Young Jeezy. Nobody was talking about Young Jeezy! And who cares what Adam thinks about whether people on a message board like music for the right or wrong reasons or what that says about them? Certainly I don't and you shouldn't either.
you sound asshurt about being white
I really don't understand why my comments are being held as so out there. Bottom line white people who celebrate/ enjoy ignorance and negative stereotypes in music really have no moral ground to stand on when they talk about how offended they are that some other white people are dressing up like a pimp or ho, and to turn it into a race thing when its not expressly implied shows an oversensitivity to the issue at hand.
I'm sure many white folks feel they can justify their support of negative black images through "crack rap" and their disdain for white people emulating supposed black images but that idea is pure fantasy land in my opinion.
So there's nothing to be said for enjoying black music on its own terms. Good to know.
Guzz, please list some rap artists you actually listen to and enjoy. This is a serious request. From the way you pontificate and moralize, I'm guessing the list will be limited to Hammer's "Pray" and a few Kirk Franklin joints.
So there's nothing to be said for enjoying black music on its own terms. Good to know.
Guzz, please list some rap artists you actually listen to and enjoy. This is a serious request. From the way you pontificate and moralize, I'm guessing the list will be limited to Hammer's "Pray" and a few Kirk Franklin joints.
as much as I'd like to help your obsessive need to paint a picture of who I am I'm not going to sip the kool-aid.
I never said I was offended by pimp and ho parties, instead I said it was a big jump to assume that this was a minstrel show the way that many have. All I did was point out that some of the people who are so offended by the idea of a pimp and ho party on a racial level need to check their morals when it comes to condemning these parties while cheering on dudes talking about selling crack in their communities and degrading women.
I'm not the moralist in this, just the person questioning why those particular folks are selective in when they take that high ground.
You should be asking those who were outraged by the pimp and ho parties whats in their tapedecks instead.
Honestly trying to find logic in what Guzzo is saying and arguing against him is a total waste of time. You're better off hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. This shit is so tired. It was kind of an interesting discussion until Guzzo came in and derailed it talking about Young Jeezy. Nobody was talking about Young Jeezy! And who cares what Adam thinks about whether people on a message board like music for the right or wrong reasons or what that says about them? Certainly I don't and you shouldn't either.
you sound asshurt about being white
... says the white dude who's always at pains to convince this board that he isn't actually white.
Honestly trying to find logic in what Guzzo is saying and arguing against him is a total waste of time. You're better off hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. This shit is so tired. It was kind of an interesting discussion until Guzzo came in and derailed it talking about Young Jeezy. Nobody was talking about Young Jeezy! And who cares what Adam thinks about whether people on a message board like music for the right or wrong reasons or what that says about them? Certainly I don't and you shouldn't either.
you sound asshurt about being white
... says the white dude who's always at pains to convince this board that he isn't actually white.
can't help it if I was raised with a different mentality than others. for the sake of soulstruts need to peg each of its posters by a color I've gone ahead and accepted that, no matter what a persons individual life experience was, if their skin tone is light they are automatically a well off whiteboy with a tinge of racial guilt over things they never did.
Honestly trying to find logic in what Guzzo is saying and arguing against him is a total waste of time. You're better off hitting yourself in the head with a hammer. This shit is so tired. It was kind of an interesting discussion until Guzzo came in and derailed it talking about Young Jeezy. Nobody was talking about Young Jeezy! And who cares what Adam thinks about whether people on a message board like music for the right or wrong reasons or what that says about them? Certainly I don't and you shouldn't either.
you sound asshurt about being white
... says the white dude who's always at pains to convince this board that he isn't actually white.
can't help it if I was raised with a different mentality than others. for the sake of soulstruts need to peg each of its posters by a colors I've gone ahead and accepted that, no matter what a persons individual life experience was, if their skin tone is light they are automatically a well off whiteboy with a tinge of racial guilt over things I never did.
do you guys know that Cosmo Baker and the rest of the Remedy crew (rich medina) used to throw a pimps and hoes masquerade ball every halloween? they were really fun parties, had very racially mixed crowds, had high rates of participation, and no one was seemingly offended. the last one that i ever went had the pharcyde (sans fatlip) hanging out at it, pimpin hoes and enjoying the shit out of themselves.
do you guys know that Cosmo Baker and the rest of the Remedy crew (rich medina) used to throw a pimps and hoes masquerade ball every halloween? they were really fun parties, had very racially mixed crowds, had high rates of participation, and no one was seemingly offended. the last one that i ever went had the pharcyde (sans fatlip) hanging out at it, pimpin hoes and enjoying the shit out of themselves.
two progressive people of color being involved with it is completely different than a couple of white frat dudes.
guzzo, could you please list which black artists are 'ok' for white people who find pimp parties offensive, and which artists are not ok? Because apparently you're the one in charge of figuring that shit out.
i dont even give a shit about jeezy in '07 but you're silly
guzzo, could you please list which black artists are 'ok' for white people who find pimp parties offensive, and which artists are not ok? Because apparently you're the one in charge of figuring that shit out.
i dont even give a shit about jeezy in '07 but you're silly
it's amazing how much people read into (and past) what is typed.
I think a better question would be asking those who were in an uproar over the party what kind of music they are into and if the music they like does deal with negative stereotypical images how do they justify their selective condemning of (implied) racial images.
Choosing to listen to jeezy does not neccessarily = endorsement of stereotyping dude. You're making huge assumptions about what other people are thinking, or how they are responding. Unless you've got some specific 'jeezy's crack rap is so cool because he sells crack1!!' article to take down or something, you're just railing at strawmen.
whereas dressing as a pimp IS a flat out performance of a stereotype. If you can't see the huge difference I have no idea how to spell it out any clearer.
Even if you make the logical jump that white people who listen to Jeezy are inherently supporting the continuation of negative stereotypes of black people, your argument is still stupid. Guess what? People are a mess of contradictions. I disagree with a lot of the bullshit people post on this board but that doesn't mean their opinions are invalidated forever on all subjects by those contradictions. So stop playing holier-than-thou captain save-a-racist and just let people call pimp and ho parties the racist wack bullshit that they are. If you want to fight about Jeezy make your own thread instead of passive aggressive zzz.
I see Guzzo-man's point.. you will give Snoop Dogg a pass for saying bitches ain't shit and that his pimp hand is way strong but if people want to play dress up and role play a stereotype that isn't even real (it only exists in 70's blacksploitation movies movies and Snoop Dogg videos) then that is racist? Kids at a party emulating Superfly should be no more offensive than Antonio Fargas as "Flyguy" or the Snoop Dogg video with "Taadow!". Pimps with bell bottoms and wide brimmed hats are funny and cool. I don't see the racial implications. It's not people looking down at black culture, it's people emulating (or more so celebrating) mythological black characters that have been created and also celebrated by blacks. I don't see where emulation = racism. If that were true then it would follow that any white person on Soulstrut who had an avatar of a drug dealer from The Wire was racist.
So what do you think the "fundamentals" of "blackness" are?
I couldn't possibly say, because I have not been black a day in my life.
Why would one have to be black to know the stated beliefs of "black fundamentalists," especially when they have pamphlets, some titled "The Fundamentals of Blackness."
I see Guzzo-man's point.. you will give Snoop Dogg a pass for saying bitches ain't shit and that his pimp hand is way strong but if people want to play dress up and role play a stereotype that isn't even real (it only exists in 70's blacksploitation movies movies and Snoop Dogg videos) then that is racist? Kids at a party emulating Superfly should be no more offensive than Antonio Fargas as "Flyguy" or the Snoop Dogg video with "Taadow!". Pimps with bell bottoms and wide brimmed hats are funny and cool. I don't see the racial implications. It's not people looking down at black culture, it's people emulating (or more so celebrating) mythological black characters that have been created and also celebrated by blacks. I don't see where emulation = racism. If that were true then it would follow that any white person on Soulstrut who had an avatar of a drug dealer from The Wire was racist.
na??ive [/b] /nɑˈiv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nah-eev] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation ???adjective 1. having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous. 2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics. 3. having or marked by a simple, unaffectedly direct style reflecting little or no formal training or technique: valuable naive 19th-century American portrait paintings. 4. not having previously been the subject of a scientific experiment, as an animal. Also, na????ve.
[Origin: 1645???55; < F, fem. of na??f, OF naif natural, instinctive < L nātīvus native]
???Related forms na??ive??ly, adverb na??ive??ness, noun
???Synonyms 1. simple, unaffected, unsuspecting, artless, guileless, candid, open, plain. ???Antonyms 1. sophisticated, artful. Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, ?? Random House, Inc. 2006.
I don't see the racial implications. It's not people looking down at black culture, it's people emulating (or more so celebrating) mythological black characters that have been created and also celebrated by blacks. I don't see where emulation = racism.
I think you're all making a mountain out of a molehill.
of course you won't admit to it but... i'll bet money that you are one of those dudes on craigslist rants and raves posting racist shit about minorities while hiding behind your computer.
I see Guzzo-man's point.. you will give Snoop Dogg a pass for saying bitches ain't drug dealer from The Wire was racist.
na??ive [/b] /nɑˈiv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nah-eev] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation ???adjective
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, ?? Random House, Inc. 2006.
I have no idea why I even jump in on these. It's pointless. I show up like every 2 weeks to see what is going on here and always get involved with something like this and because yall don't know me you think I don't know anything. I don't even know who Guzzo is or what your past beefs with him are about.
I might not be right and I'm open to trying to understand what you are saying. But here is what I'm saying:
You say white people like to slum it and dress up like black people and that's racist. That's not true. There are people out there who are racist but you would have me believe that anyone who said 'fo-shizzle' was a racist. From your point of view is that mocking black people? Even moms like Snoop Dog, it's admiration, not being condescending.
Did you think "I'm gonna get you sucka" was funny or offensive? Does it mock black people? No it mocks blaxploitation movies. Was it racist when my friends and I liked NWA and went out and bought Raiders hats?? Was that racist? You said in an earlier post that you thought white people dressing 'clownishly hip-hop' was offensive. Have you looked around? People all over the world emulate hip-hop culture which is predominately black culture. Are you mad at Japanese breakers or graffiti writers?? Yes I've seen pictures of parties thrown by known DJs on this site where white people are dancing to dirty south rap and THROWING UP FAKE GANG SIGNS.
So I'm trying to see how you find people dressing up like Superfly racially offensive. Are avatars of the characters of the Wire offensive - since this is celebrating or glamorizing negative black stereotypes ie murderers / drug dealers? Or Scarface? or Tony Soprano? Maybe it's not. Maybe Italians are offended by the popularity of the Sopranos and Cubans are offended every time someone says "Say hello to my leeetle friend".
I see Guzzo-man's point.. you will give Snoop Dogg a pass for saying bitches ain't drug dealer from The Wire was racist.
na??ive [/b] /nɑˈiv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nah-eev] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation ???adjective
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, ?? Random House, Inc. 2006.
I have no idea why I even jump in on these. It's pointless. I show up like every 2 weeks to see what is going on here and always get involved with something like this and because yall don't know me you think I don't know anything. I don't even know who Guzzo is or what your past beefs with him are about.
I might not be right and I'm open to trying to understand what you are saying. But here is what I'm saying:
You say white people like to slum it and dress up like black people and that's racist. That's not true. There are people out there who are racist but you would have me believe that anyone who said 'fo-shizzle' was a racist. From your point of view is that mocking black people? Even moms like Snoop Dog, it's admiration, not being condescending.
Did you think "I'm gonna get you sucka" was funny or offensive? Does it mock black people? No it mocks blaxploitation movies. Was it racist when my friends and I liked NWA and went out and bought Raiders hats?? Was that racist? You said in an earlier post that you thought white people dressing 'clownishly hip-hop' was offensive. Have you looked around? People all over the world emulate hip-hop culture which is predominately black culture. Are you mad at Japanese breakers or graffiti writers?? Yes I've seen pictures of parties thrown by known DJs on this site where white people are dancing to dirty south rap and THROWING UP FAKE GANG SIGNS.
So I'm trying to see how you find people dressing up like Superfly racially offensive. Are avatars of the characters of the Wire offensive - since this is celebrating or glamorizing negative black stereotypes ie murderers / drug dealers? Or Scarface? or Tony Soprano? Maybe it's not. Maybe Italians are offended by the popularity of the Sopranos and Cubans are offended every time someone says "Say hello to my leeetle friend".
Ok where are we now
This is some simplistic, defensive stuff here my friend. I think you may need to look inward and find the answers to your questions.
Comments
thats not true. jerkface.
If I ever went to aparty like that, I would have to dress in the car, because if I ever left the house like that I would fully expect to be beat-upo, and be dissapointed in my neigbors if I wasn't.
you sound asshurt about being white
I really don't understand why my comments are being held as so out there.
Bottom line white people who celebrate/ enjoy ignorance and negative stereotypes in music really have no moral ground to stand on when they talk about how offended they are that some other white people are dressing up like a pimp or ho, and to turn it into a race thing when its not expressly implied shows an oversensitivity to the issue at hand.
I'm sure many white folks feel they can justify their support of negative black images through "crack rap" and their disdain for white people emulating supposed black images but that idea is pure fantasy land in my opinion.
Guzz, please list some rap artists you actually listen to and enjoy. This is a serious request. From the way you pontificate and moralize, I'm guessing the list will be limited to Hammer's "Pray" and a few Kirk Franklin joints.
as much as I'd like to help your obsessive need to paint a picture of who I am I'm not going to sip the kool-aid.
I never said I was offended by pimp and ho parties, instead I said it was a big jump to assume that this was a minstrel show the way that many have. All I did was point out that some of the people who are so offended by the idea of a pimp and ho party on a racial level need to check their morals when it comes to condemning these parties while cheering on dudes talking about selling crack in their communities and degrading women.
I'm not the moralist in this, just the person questioning why those particular folks are selective in when they take that high ground.
You should be asking those who were outraged by the pimp and ho parties whats in their tapedecks instead.
... says the white dude who's always at pains to convince this board that he isn't actually white.
can't help it if I was raised with a different mentality than others. for the sake of soulstruts need to peg each of its posters by a color I've gone ahead and accepted that, no matter what a persons individual life experience was, if their skin tone is light they are automatically a well off whiteboy with a tinge of racial guilt over things they never did.
can we get back to the issue now?
I have no guilt.
two progressive people of color being involved with it is completely different than a couple of white frat dudes.
nice try.
i dont even give a shit about jeezy in '07 but you're silly
it's amazing how much people read into (and past) what is typed.
I think a better question would be asking those who were in an uproar over the party what kind of music they are into and if the music they like does deal with negative stereotypical images how do they justify their selective condemning of (implied) racial images.
whereas dressing as a pimp IS a flat out performance of a stereotype. If you can't see the huge difference I have no idea how to spell it out any clearer.
I see Guzzo-man's point.. you will give Snoop Dogg a pass for saying bitches ain't shit and that his pimp hand is way strong but if people want to play dress up and role play a stereotype that isn't even real (it only exists in 70's blacksploitation movies movies and Snoop Dogg videos) then that is racist? Kids at a party emulating Superfly should be no more offensive than Antonio Fargas as "Flyguy" or the Snoop Dogg video with "Taadow!". Pimps with bell bottoms and wide brimmed hats are funny and cool. I don't see the racial implications. It's not people looking down at black culture, it's people emulating (or more so celebrating) mythological black characters that have been created and also celebrated by blacks. I don't see where emulation = racism. If that were true then it would follow that any white person on Soulstrut who had an avatar of a drug dealer from The Wire was racist.
na??ive [/b] /nɑˈiv/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nah-eev] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
???adjective
1. having or showing unaffected simplicity of nature or absence of artificiality; unsophisticated; ingenuous.
2. having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous: She's so naive she believes everything she reads. He has a very naive attitude toward politics.
3. having or marked by a simple, unaffectedly direct style reflecting little or no formal training or technique: valuable naive 19th-century American portrait paintings.
4. not having previously been the subject of a scientific experiment, as an animal.
Also, na????ve.
[Origin: 1645???55; < F, fem. of na??f, OF naif natural, instinctive < L nātīvus native]
???Related forms
na??ive??ly, adverb
na??ive??ness, noun
???Synonyms 1. simple, unaffected, unsuspecting, artless, guileless, candid, open, plain.
???Antonyms 1. sophisticated, artful.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, ?? Random House, Inc. 2006.
One can immediately discount the opinion of anybody that utters these four words in succession.
truth hurts.
I have no idea why I even jump in on these. It's pointless. I show up like every 2 weeks to see what is going on here and always get involved with something like this and because yall don't know me you think I don't know anything. I don't even know who Guzzo is or what your past beefs with him are about.
I might not be right and I'm open to trying to understand what you are saying. But here is what I'm saying:
You say white people like to slum it and dress up like black people and that's racist. That's not true. There are people out there who are racist but you would have me believe that anyone who said 'fo-shizzle' was a racist. From your point of view is that mocking black people? Even moms like Snoop Dog, it's admiration, not being condescending.
Did you think "I'm gonna get you sucka" was funny or offensive? Does it mock black people? No it mocks blaxploitation movies. Was it racist when my friends and I liked NWA and went out and bought Raiders hats?? Was that racist? You said in an earlier post that you thought white people dressing 'clownishly hip-hop' was offensive. Have you looked around? People all over the world emulate hip-hop culture which is predominately black culture. Are you mad at Japanese breakers or graffiti writers?? Yes I've seen pictures of parties thrown by known DJs on this site where white people are dancing to dirty south rap and THROWING UP FAKE GANG SIGNS.
So I'm trying to see how you find people dressing up like Superfly racially offensive. Are avatars of the characters of the Wire offensive - since this is celebrating or glamorizing negative black stereotypes ie murderers / drug dealers? Or Scarface? or Tony Soprano? Maybe it's not. Maybe Italians are offended by the popularity of the Sopranos and Cubans are offended every time someone says "Say hello to my leeetle friend".
Ok where are we now
Just to save you the effort...
This is some simplistic, defensive stuff here my friend. I think you may need to look inward and find the answers to your questions.