just dont go to see a rael pimp like Fillmore Slim play a "show"...goddawful moder blues for hours...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. He played before Bobby Patterson, otherwise I wouldnt have stayed through a 9 minute version of "Kansas City"..............
I think you're all making a mountain out of a molehill.
I would agree with you completely if this was a discussion about the use of the word 'pimp', 'pimpin', 'pimped-out', etc, but this is about grown-up adults getting their jollies by the time-(dis)honored tradition of 'slumming'.
Just like rich folks who in the 50s and 60s would hold parties in the subways in NYC to get that gritty street vibe going ("oh, my, honey, isn't it exciting to see how our maid comes to work everyday!"), these parties are this generation's ugly tip of the hat to 'how the other half lives', and how they seem to have NO IDEA that their views of 'the other half', ie Black People, are immersed soley in stereotypes and innacurate social history that is OFFENSIVE to decent people of every race.
no offense to Birdman, but this argument doesn't seem to make sense when mentioned on a board in which a good vocal amount of the posters here have gushed over rappers discussing crack or "the streets"
I don't really see much of a difference between people on here enjoying the music of a Young Jeezy, or Rick Ross and people enjoying themselves at a pimp and ho party
I don't really see much of a difference between people on here enjoying the music of a Young Jeezy, or Rick Ross and people enjoying themselves at a pimp and ho party
I'd say the difference is that the people going to the party are white people dressing up as pimps and hoes. These dude are dressing up as parodies/caricatures of Black people. That being said, if you want to have a party like this, knock yourself out. Scantily clad women are cool by me.
I think you're all making a mountain out of a molehill.
of course you won't admit to it but... i'll bet money that you are one of those dudes on craigslist rants and raves posting racist shit about minorities while hiding behind your computer.
I think you're all making a mountain out of a molehill.
I would agree with you completely if this was a discussion about the use of the word 'pimp', 'pimpin', 'pimped-out', etc, but this is about grown-up adults getting their jollies by the time-(dis)honored tradition of 'slumming'.
Just like rich folks who in the 50s and 60s would hold parties in the subways in NYC to get that gritty street vibe going ("oh, my, honey, isn't it exciting to see how our maid comes to work everyday!"), these parties are this generation's ugly tip of the hat to 'how the other half lives', and how they seem to have NO IDEA that their views of 'the other half', ie Black People, are immersed soley in stereotypes and innacurate social history that is OFFENSIVE to decent people of every race.
no offense to Birdman, but this argument doesn't seem to make sense when mentioned on a board in which a good vocal amount of the posters here have ushed over rappers discussing crack or "the streets"
I don't really see much of a difference between people on here enjoying the music of a Young Jeezy, or Rick Ross and people enjoying themselves at a pimp and ho party
I guess I don't see the two acts as being the same, A*am, or as part of the same continuum even for the sake of argument.
To gush over Iceberg Slim's novels would not be in the slightest bit offensive, just as to gush over Jeezy's(or whomever's) portrayal of their stories, whatever it's based on, does not offend me. These things are in the context of artistic expression, and while not for everyone, they are not, IMO, taking on these topics from a context of mimicry or condesension.
I am not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to have Pimp Parties, I am simply saying that I find it offensive, just like I would find it offensive if people were to throw Rap Parties and everyone dressed as clownishly 'hip hop' as possible, throwing up 'signs' and speaking in language that they don't normally speak. You don't have to be ultra-sensitive or smarter than the average bear to see what is actually being mocked.
I think you're all making a mountain out of a molehill.
I would agree with you completely if this was a discussion about the use of the word 'pimp', 'pimpin', 'pimped-out', etc, but this is about grown-up adults getting their jollies by the time-(dis)honored tradition of 'slumming'.
Just like rich folks who in the 50s and 60s would hold parties in the subways in NYC to get that gritty street vibe going ("oh, my, honey, isn't it exciting to see how our maid comes to work everyday!"), these parties are this generation's ugly tip of the hat to 'how the other half lives', and how they seem to have NO IDEA that their views of 'the other half', ie Black People, are immersed soley in stereotypes and innacurate social history that is OFFENSIVE to decent people of every race.
no offense to Birdman, but this argument doesn't seem to make sense when mentioned on a board in which a good vocal amount of the posters here have ushed over rappers discussing crack or "the streets"
I don't really see much of a difference between people on here enjoying the music of a Young Jeezy, or Rick Ross and people enjoying themselves at a pimp and ho party
I guess I don't see the two acts as being the same, A*am, or as part of the same continuum even for the sake of argument.
To gush over Iceberg Slim's novels would not be in the slightest bit offensive, just as to gush over Jeezy's(or whomever's) portrayal of their stories, whatever it's based on, does not offend me. These things are in the context of artistic expression, and while not for everyone, they are not, IMO, taking on these topics from a context of mimicry or condesension.
we'll agree to disagree then. From what I see on most of these posts about "crack rap" people aren't gushing over the lyrical content but rather over the image of the rapper. IMO I feel that its just a bunch of (mostly) whiteboys reveling in dudes living up to negative black stereotypes.
I am not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to have Pimp Parties, I am simply saying that I find it offensive, just like I would find it offensive if people were to throw Rap Parties and everyone dressed as clownishly 'hip hop' as possible, throwing up 'signs' and speaking in language that they don't normally speak. You don't have to be ultra-sensitive or smarter than the average bear to see what is actually being mocked.
the hip-hop party you describe sounds like it can hit pretty close to home for a lot of people.
these are definitely LESS of a "nagl" when compared to so called "ghetto" themed parties that exist
My point is that they are all, really, the exact same thing.
Along the same lines, has anyone ever been to a "White Trash Party"? Where upper-middle-class white kids dress and act like thier social/economic lessers? "Haha, poor people have accents and dress bad." Talk about NAGL.
we'll agree to disagree then. From what I see on most of these posts about "crack rap" people aren't gushing over the lyrical content but rather over the image of the rapper. IMO I feel that its just a bunch of (mostly) whiteboys reveling in dudes living up to negative black stereotypes.
Apples and Oranges. I think you are trying to drag your idea of how a certain group of people on Soulstrut talks/writes about specific rappers and specific stereotypes to a thread about something different. Championing the freedom of musical artists to express themselves as they see fit(even if it may prop up incredibly negative images) is a far cry from those same people dressing up in costume as the same rappers and acting the way you think 'people like that' act in the context of a party. I don't think that there is a lot of that going on. I think in comparing the two you are reaching a bit.
I am not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to have Pimp Parties, I am simply saying that I find it offensive, just like I would find it offensive if people were to throw Rap Parties and everyone dressed as clownishly 'hip hop' as possible, throwing up 'signs' and speaking in language that they don't normally speak. You don't have to be ultra-sensitive or smarter than the average bear to see what is actually being mocked.
the hip-hop party you describe sounds like it can hit pretty close to home for a lot of people.
we'll agree to disagree then. From what I see on most of these posts about "crack rap" people aren't gushing over the lyrical content but rather over the image of the rapper. IMO I feel that its just a bunch of (mostly) whiteboys reveling in dudes living up to negative black stereotypes.
vs. holier-than-thou white boys listening to 'positive black stereotypes'
Not that I was a bit confused that fader put Rick Ross on the cover, something like if the Source had put Domino on the cover after ghetto jam, but you act like listening to rap that happens to involve crack sales = white boys revelling in negative black stereotypes as if white boys revelling in stereotypes only happens w/r/t a certain style of rap, rather than all white people listening to black music ever.
I think you're all making a mountain out of a molehill.
I would agree with you completely if this was a discussion about the use of the word 'pimp', 'pimpin', 'pimped-out', etc, but this is about grown-up adults getting their jollies by the time-(dis)honored tradition of 'slumming'.
Just like rich folks who in the 50s and 60s would hold parties in the subways in NYC to get that gritty street vibe going ("oh, my, honey, isn't it exciting to see how our maid comes to work everyday!"), these parties are this generation's ugly tip of the hat to 'how the other half lives', and how they seem to have NO IDEA that their views of 'the other half', ie Black People, are immersed soley in stereotypes and innacurate social history that is OFFENSIVE to decent people of every race.
no offense to Birdman, but this argument doesn't seem to make sense when mentioned on a board in which a good vocal amount of the posters here have ushed over rappers discussing crack or "the streets"
I don't really see much of a difference between people on here enjoying the music of a Young Jeezy, or Rick Ross and people enjoying themselves at a pimp and ho party
I guess I don't see the two acts as being the same, A*am, or as part of the same continuum even for the sake of argument.
To gush over Iceberg Slim's novels would not be in the slightest bit offensive, just as to gush over Jeezy's(or whomever's) portrayal of their stories, whatever it's based on, does not offend me. These things are in the context of artistic expression, and while not for everyone, they are not, IMO, taking on these topics from a context of mimicry or condesension.
we'll agree to disagree then. From what I see on most of these posts about "crack rap" people aren't gushing over the lyrical content but rather over the image of the rapper. IMO I feel that its just a bunch of (mostly) whiteboys reveling in dudes living up to negative black stereotypes.
I am not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to have Pimp Parties, I am simply saying that I find it offensive, just like I would find it offensive if people were to throw Rap Parties and everyone dressed as clownishly 'hip hop' as possible, throwing up 'signs' and speaking in language that they don't normally speak. You don't have to be ultra-sensitive or smarter than the average bear to see what is actually being mocked.
the hip-hop party you describe sounds like it can hit pretty close to home for a lot of people.
Adam are you saying you find these parties racist just as you find the celebration of the gangster rapper racist?
these are definitely LESS of a "nagl" when compared to so called "ghetto" themed parties that exist
My point is that they are all, really, the exact same thing.
but i feel like the "pimps n hoes" party is more about having a good time, with not as much 'looking down the nose' as a 'ghetto' party. what i mean is, in the current state of things, being a 'pimp' is cool, hell i guess my point is that a pimps n hoes party should offend women more than blacks. is that wrong?
Adam are you saying you find these parties racist just as you find the celebration of the gangster rapper racist?
well kind of...
Celebrating negative stereotypes of any race whether its in discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is or dressing up as a pimp are both pretty bad looks, but making one more acceptable than the other just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm totally fine with both, I'm just bringing up the point that complaining about it on soulstrut, where so many people revel in one negative (yet popular) expression of a stereotype, is a little odd
, hell i guess my point is that a pimps n hoes party should offend women more than blacks. True. More to the point is they should offend humans because of the sexual objectification of exploited and used women, coupled with the celebration of the abuser coupled with mockery of Black America.
Iron Monkey took me to a movie premiere a couple years back for a film about Fillmore Slim. All the major characters were there (Rosebud Bitterdose, Fillmore Slim, etc.) all of them dressed to the 9's and many of them accompanied by women who might of been hoes.
The move was a documentary made by pimps about pimps with a little part dedicated solely to Fillmore Slim. The movie defintly needed work and I offered to help edit, but after talking with several other people I know in film and tv I was told it may not be a smart move to get involved.
I agree that thee parties are dumb most of the time, but why are people making this into a race issue? being a pimp or ho is not bound by race but more bound by economic background... unless of course you get to the level of Heidi fleiss... you know a white WOMAN who became one of the most known "pimps" in recent history...
Adam are you saying you find these parties racist just as you find the celebration of the gangster rapper racist?
well kind of...
Celebrating negative stereotypes of any race whether its in discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is or dressing up as a pimp are both pretty bad looks, but making one more acceptable than the other just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm totally fine with both[/b], I'm just bringing up the point that complaining about it on soulstrut, where so many people revel in one negative (yet popular) expression of a stereotype, is a little odd
Emphisis is mine.
So you're fine with racism? What burns your butt is soulstrut hypocrisy?
It wounds like you are offened by soulstrutters liking gangster rap lyrics, but you don't really see what the big deal is with pimp&ho parties.
Adam are you saying you find these parties racist just as you find the celebration of the gangster rapper racist?
well kind of...
Celebrating negative stereotypes of any race whether its in discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is or dressing up as a pimp are both pretty bad looks, but making one more acceptable than the other just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm totally fine with both, I'm just bringing up the point that complaining about it on soulstrut, where so many people revel in one negative (yet popular) expression of a stereotype, is a little odd
I know I am going to regret asking, but how does "discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is" connotate "celebrating negative stereotypes"?
Discusssing something negative IS more acceptable than open mockery and hiding behind feigned ignorance, at least last I checked.
Racism occures on a continium. Someone who is raised in urban poor Black America is a victim of racism. If that person ends up as a pimp or whore they are a victim of racism. If that person raps about pimps and whores they are taking the racism they have been thrown in and making art (or entertainment) out of it (potentially). People who appreciate that art (or entertainment) may (or may not) be supporting negative stereotypes. They likely are promoting the negative effects of racism.
Contrast that to pimp&ho parties which mock the suffering of women and the men who oppress them while making fun of Blacks. Does not seem like the same thing to me.
Adam are you saying you find these parties racist just as you find the celebration of the gangster rapper racist?
well kind of...
Celebrating negative stereotypes of any race whether its in discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is or dressing up as a pimp are both pretty bad looks, but making one more acceptable than the other just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm totally fine with both, I'm just bringing up the point that complaining about it on soulstrut, where so many people revel in one negative (yet popular) expression of a stereotype, is a little odd
I know I am going to regret asking, but how does "discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is" connotate "celebrating negative stereotypes"?
I know that I'm going to regret asking this, but has any serious discussion of how "connected to the streets" any rapper is ever occurred on this site?
To the best of my recollection, the origin of that phrase was a jab that Archaic threw at Oliver, which then became a recurring joke.
I agree that thee parties are dumb most of the time, but why are people making this into a race issue? being a pimp or ho is not bound by race but more bound by economic background... unless of course you get to the level of Heidi fleiss... you know a white WOMAN who became one of the most known "pimps" in recent history...
Nobody goes to these parties dressed as Heidi Fleiss. Nor do they go dressed as Italian, Chinese or Jewish pimps. They go dressed as a stereotype of what they think an urban Black pimp would look like. I agree with you that pimping and hoing knows no race, these parties are about parodying one race. Get it now?
Adam are you saying you find these parties racist just as you find the celebration of the gangster rapper racist?
well kind of...
Celebrating negative stereotypes of any race whether its in discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is or dressing up as a pimp are both pretty bad looks, but making one more acceptable than the other just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm totally fine with both, I'm just bringing up the point that complaining about it on soulstrut, where so many people revel in one negative (yet popular) expression of a stereotype, is a little odd
I know I am going to regret asking, but how does "discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is" connotate "celebrating negative stereotypes"?
Discusssing something negative IS more acceptable than open mockery and hiding behind feigned ignorance, at least last I checked.
I've always took the soulstrut idea of being "connected to the streets" as meaning how close one is to the idea of drug dealers dealing, pimps pimping, hoes hoeing, etc. and I've always thought that it was open mockery to do so.
Maybe I'm wrong but I've never equated the soulstrut use of the term as helping ones community but rather knowing the darker side of it and revelling in that.
Laserwolf:[/b] of course I'm not okay with racism, but I just don't see how this is all that bad where folks come down on it with some moral superiority, especially when some of the folks here have championed other forms of negative black stereotypes.
I agree that thee parties are dumb most of the time, but why are people making this into a race issue? being a pimp or ho is not bound by race but more bound by economic background... unless of course you get to the level of Heidi fleiss... you know a white WOMAN who became one of the most known "pimps" in recent history...
The kind of pimpery that is being flogged here is CLEARLY based on the 70s emergence of Player culture that is documented effectively(and entertainingly) in films like The Mack and Willie Dynamite, and exposed in all it's ugliness and reality in books like Iceberg Slim's 'PIMP', and the socialogical study (written by a white couple who basically joined the Life to do their graduate work) 'Black Players'.
No one is having parties(not yet anyway) based on the 'exploits' of suburban chicks posting ads on Craigslist or small town white 'pimps' who charge their buddies $20 to take a run at their girlfriend. Nor am I hearing any news items about 'Madam' parties or 'Bawdy House' parties. These things are to race-neutral to stimulate what is being stimulated by these 'Pimp/Ho' parties. They are a perfect offensive trifecta: race, gender AND class.
Comments
no offense to Birdman, but this argument doesn't seem to make sense when mentioned on a board in which a good vocal amount of the posters here have gushed over rappers discussing crack or "the streets"
I don't really see much of a difference between people on here enjoying the music of a Young Jeezy, or Rick Ross and people enjoying themselves at a pimp and ho party
wait
for
it
wait
wait
YOU SOUND WHITE
I'd say the difference is that the people going to the party are white people dressing up as pimps and hoes. These dude are dressing up as parodies/caricatures of Black people. That being said, if you want to have a party like this, knock yourself out. Scantily clad women are cool by me.
of course you won't admit to it but... i'll bet money that you are one of those dudes on craigslist rants and raves posting racist shit about minorities while hiding behind your computer.
I guess I don't see the two acts as being the same, A*am, or as part of the same continuum even for the sake of argument.
To gush over Iceberg Slim's novels would not be in the slightest bit offensive, just as to gush over Jeezy's(or whomever's) portrayal of their stories, whatever it's based on, does not offend me. These things are in the context of artistic expression, and while not for everyone, they are not, IMO, taking on these topics from a context of mimicry or condesension.
I am not going to say people shouldn't be allowed to have Pimp Parties, I am simply saying that I find it offensive, just like I would find it offensive if people were to throw Rap Parties and everyone dressed as clownishly 'hip hop' as possible, throwing up 'signs' and speaking in language that they don't normally speak. You don't have to be ultra-sensitive or smarter than the average bear to see what is actually being mocked.
My point is that they are all, really, the exact same thing.
we'll agree to disagree then. From what I see on most of these posts about "crack rap" people aren't gushing over the lyrical content but rather over the image of the rapper. IMO I feel that its just a bunch of (mostly) whiteboys reveling in dudes living up to negative black stereotypes.
the hip-hop party you describe sounds like it can hit pretty close to home for a lot of people.
Along the same lines, has anyone ever been to a "White Trash Party"? Where upper-middle-class white kids dress and act like thier social/economic lessers? "Haha, poor people have accents and dress bad." Talk about NAGL.
Apples and Oranges. I think you are trying to drag your idea of how a certain group of people on Soulstrut talks/writes about specific rappers and specific stereotypes to a thread about something different. Championing the freedom of musical artists to express themselves as they see fit(even if it may prop up incredibly negative images) is a far cry from those same people dressing up in costume as the same rappers and acting the way you think 'people like that' act in the context of a party. I don't think that there is a lot of that going on. I think in comparing the two you are reaching a bit.
Hey, truth hurts.
Not that I was a bit confused that fader put Rick Ross on the cover, something like if the Source had put Domino on the cover after ghetto jam, but you act like listening to rap that happens to involve crack sales = white boys revelling in negative black stereotypes as if white boys revelling in stereotypes only happens w/r/t a certain style of rap, rather than all white people listening to black music ever.
Adam are you saying you find these parties racist just as you find the celebration of the gangster rapper racist?
but i feel like the "pimps n hoes" party is more about having a good time, with not as much 'looking down the nose' as a 'ghetto' party. what i mean is, in the current state of things, being a 'pimp' is cool, hell i guess my point is that a pimps n hoes party should offend women more than blacks. is that wrong?
well kind of...
Celebrating negative stereotypes of any race whether its in discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is or dressing up as a pimp are both pretty bad looks, but making one more acceptable than the other just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm totally fine with both, I'm just bringing up the point that complaining about it on soulstrut, where so many people revel in one negative (yet popular) expression of a stereotype, is a little odd
True. More to the point is they should offend humans because of the sexual objectification of exploited and used women, coupled with the celebration of the abuser coupled with mockery of Black America.
True pimp fashion?
I will come clean and say....I don't believe I have.
Iron Monkey took me to a movie premiere a couple years back for a film about Fillmore Slim. All the major characters were there (Rosebud Bitterdose, Fillmore Slim, etc.) all of them dressed to the 9's and many of them accompanied by women who might of been hoes.
The move was a documentary made by pimps about pimps with a little part dedicated solely to Fillmore Slim. The movie defintly needed work and I offered to help edit, but after talking with several other people I know in film and tv I was told it may not be a smart move to get involved.
Emphisis is mine.
So you're fine with racism? What burns your butt is soulstrut hypocrisy?
It wounds like you are offened by soulstrutters liking gangster rap lyrics, but you don't really see what the big deal is with pimp&ho parties.
I know I am going to regret asking, but how does "discussing how "connected to the streets" a rapper is" connotate "celebrating negative stereotypes"?
Discusssing something negative IS more acceptable than open mockery and hiding behind feigned ignorance, at least last I checked.
Contrast that to pimp&ho parties which mock the suffering of women and the men who oppress them while making fun of Blacks. Does not seem like the same thing to me.
Does that make sense?
I know that I'm going to regret asking this, but has any serious discussion of how "connected to the streets" any rapper is ever occurred on this site?
To the best of my recollection, the origin of that phrase was a jab that Archaic threw at Oliver, which then became a recurring joke.
Nobody goes to these parties dressed as Heidi Fleiss. Nor do they go dressed as Italian, Chinese or Jewish pimps. They go dressed as a stereotype of what they think an urban Black pimp would look like. I agree with you that pimping and hoing knows no race, these parties are about parodying one race. Get it now?
Please stop.
I've always took the soulstrut idea of being "connected to the streets" as meaning how close one is to the idea of drug dealers dealing, pimps pimping, hoes hoeing, etc. and I've always thought that it was open mockery to do so.
Maybe I'm wrong but I've never equated the soulstrut use of the term as helping ones community but rather knowing the darker side of it and revelling in that.
Laserwolf:[/b] of course I'm not okay with racism, but I just don't see how this is all that bad where folks come down on it with some moral superiority, especially when some of the folks here have championed other forms of negative black stereotypes.
The kind of pimpery that is being flogged here is CLEARLY based on the 70s emergence of Player culture that is documented effectively(and entertainingly) in films like The Mack and Willie Dynamite, and exposed in all it's ugliness and reality in books like Iceberg Slim's 'PIMP', and the socialogical study (written by a white couple who basically joined the Life to do their graduate work) 'Black Players'.
No one is having parties(not yet anyway) based on the 'exploits' of suburban chicks posting ads on Craigslist or small town white 'pimps' who charge their buddies $20 to take a run at their girlfriend. Nor am I hearing any news items about 'Madam' parties or 'Bawdy House' parties. These things are to race-neutral to stimulate what is being stimulated by these 'Pimp/Ho' parties. They are a perfect offensive trifecta: race, gender AND class.