IMO, yes. I don't know if it's as good pound for pound but that's like arguing which is better, Illmatic or Cuban Links. Different animals and shit. Leopards and Elephants.
I was just being sarcastic
Beyond those two, I can't really think of anything else that would be considered to reach "classic" status. I wanna say "Tha Carter" but I'm not too sure. I firmly believe "Street Novelist" has future classic status.
I would not say Tha Carter but I would definitely say Street Novelist.
There's gotta be something else though..
Purple Haze has gotten a lot of end-to-end burn for me.
Can't believe I forgot about that. If the album ended at Get Em Girls, it would be near-perfect in my mind. Of course, I always skip Do the Robot on "Street Novelist" so I guess it's not a big thing.
I'll say the Federation lp has future classic status written all over it. lots of lp cuts & some great singles to come from it. Street novelist, too.
IMO, yes. I don't know if it's as good pound for pound but that's like arguing which is better, Illmatic or Cuban Links. Different animals and shit. Leopards and Elephants.
I was just being sarcastic
Beyond those two, I can't really think of anything else that would be considered to reach "classic" status. I wanna say "Tha Carter" but I'm not too sure. I firmly believe "Street Novelist" has future classic status.
I would not say Tha Carter but I would definitely say Street Novelist.
There's gotta be something else though..
Purple Haze has gotten a lot of end-to-end burn for me.
Can't believe I forgot about that. If the album ended at Get Em Girls, it would be near-perfect in my mind. Of course, I always skip Do the Robot on "Street Novelist" so I guess it's not a big thing.
I'll say the Federation lp has future classic status written all over it. lots of lp cuts & some great singles to come from it. Street novelist, too.
anyone who says Daily Operation isn't Gangstarr's best album has zero credibility
I always prefered "Step In the Arena."
i'll pretend i didn't read this......
and for the record......"THE FIX" ISN'T A CLASSIC !!!! it was a very good album during an extremely dry period ...but classic ?
"The Fix" and "Nation of Millions" dont belong in the same discussion.....just like "Thug Motivation" and "Death Certificate" aren't on the same level...
Very good albums and classics are two different things people .....FOCUS!
Dude, choosing between Gang Starr's 2nd and 3rd albums is not like choosing between, say, Ice Cube's 2nd and 3rd albums. I personally never could get into "Daily Operation" in terms of the beats; I preferred the music on the previous and following albums much better but hey, that's all subjective. I don't diss people who like "Daily Operation" better; it just never moved me very much.
As for "classics" - you haven't been reading what I've been saying: the criteria/standard for what a "classic" is constantly changes, especially from generation to generation. Of course, you're welcome to list what you think are irrefutably classic albums (and I'd still like to see someone do this) but then again, so could an 18 year old and I wouldn't be so quick to validate yours and dismiss theirs just because I'd probably agree with more albums on your list.
It's not that "everything is relative" since that makes any kind of consensus-building value building impossible, but your quickness to dismiss "The Fix" as a non-classic simply because it doesn't stand up to "Nations" seems rather myopic.
Seriously: what's the last certified clsasic in your book? If it's 10 years or older, then it's not hip-hop with the problem my friend, it'd be you.
anyone who says Daily Operation isn't Gangstarr's best album has zero credibility
I always prefered "Step In the Arena."
i'll pretend i didn't read this......
but for the record......"THE FIX" ISN'T A CLASSIC !!!! it was a very good album during an extremely dry period ...but classic ?
"The Fix" and "Nation of Millions" dont belong in the same discussion.....just like "Thug Motivation" and "Death Certificate" aren't on the same level...
Very good albums and classics are two different things people .....FOCUS!
I was just clowning about the Step in the Arena thing....just tryna ruffle some feathers.....i prefer Daily..but i wouldn't argue much with anyone who chooses Arena
i think classics are timeless...'Strictly Business' is timeless...you could not tell me in 93' that '93' til infinity' wasn't a classic but i cant listen to that shit these days.....because we were fortunate enough to grow up in an era when the standards were much higher what we would have considered very good albums are now considered classics...
and because classics are timeless i feel it is absolutely fair to hold today's music to the same standard as 'nation of millions' etc.......
Normally, I'd agree with you here but the truth is: what's the last rap album to really break some new ground, either within the genre or hip-hop in general? I'd offer up the OutKast "Speakerboxxx/Love Below" CDs. What about "The Blueprint"? or "Supreme Clientele"? I don't know if either of those two albums really "broke new ground" but rather, were just very well-crafted albums that (arguably) demonstrated what the pinnacle of the genre could produce under the right circumstances.
Not every "classic" has to be a paradigm shift: think about classic rock or soul albums.
As for Jeezy being a follower vs. getting bit by others - the two are NOT mutually exclusive. One could argue that Jay-Z simply copped the same kind of topical ground Biggie, Mobb Deep and the Wu were fucking with.
Shit, for that matter, was NWA even that "original"? Weren't they just riffing on older OG gangsta rappers like Schooly D?
Better said:
raw hamburger, post your list of classic rap albums or you're a vanilla frostee cone.
Normally, I'd agree with you here but the truth is: what's the last rap album to really break some new ground, either within the genre or hip-hop in general? I'd offer up the OutKast "Speakerboxxx/Love Below"
- ALL THE MAKINGS OF A CLASSIC LP
As for Jeezy being a follower vs. getting bit by others - the two are NOT mutually exclusive. One could argue that Jay-Z simply copped the same kind of topical ground Biggie, Mobb Deep and the Wu were fucking with.
- Key word being topic, its not the topics that get bit ( although shit is zzzz...zzz) its style, flow, etc.. etc.. Cmon, dudes not that influential ( classics usually have such an impact)
lps like the blueprint, and supreme clientele are from artists who have already given us classic material in a time where most rappers aspired to be these mcs...do to the fact shit was so influential.
Shit, for that matter, was NWA even that "original"? Weren't they just riffing on older OG gangsta rappers like ICE T ?
NWA as far as image and style...were totally original compared to schooly d! they also sounded NOTHING like schooly d... schooly was looking at his watch, while nwa was talkin bout comptons in the house and screaming fuck the police..
look my original point was we have heard it all before, much better then this...so how many cats are gonna start quoting this dude...and using his style ? you know hes so damn original and influential... when you come with that classic shit...everybody emulates
if this is a classic...thats saying alot for what exists out there now
i do not care to own this lp on vinyl.
Better said:
raw hamburger, post your list of classic rap albums or you're a vanilla frostee cone.
bdk pe bdp kool g rap gangstarr atcq/ take your pick epmd/ take your pick de la soul/take your pick slick rick/adventures.. ice cube/death certificate wu beasties/1st, 2nd lots of others are just as obvious
If the above are to be considered classic...What new full lengths are really worthy of the label classic ?
bdk pe bdp kool g rap gangstarr atcq/ take your pick epmd/ take your pick de la soul/take your pick slick rick/adventures.. ice cube/death certificate wu beasties/1st, 2nd lots of others are just as obvious
Just to note, but almost everything you have listed here was recorded between 1987 to 1994 (maybe '95 or '96, but it depends on which De La and Wu albums you're including).
I'm sorry man but I just can't buy into such a limited world view where you think hip-hop has failed to produce anything worthy of classic status in the last TEN YEARS (if not more).
I don't think it's very fair to compare albums from the 80's and early 90's with shit being released today. Mainstream rap music was allowed a lot more creative control back then and then slowly became a single-driven market. As a whole, rap albums just aren't end to end burners anymore because of this.
"The Fix" to me is a classic because it is an all-around good album with no bad tracks on it, the subject matter is varied but uncompromising, the production slams, and lastly it's a sincere album. Scarface is one of the few rappers still doing it today that I could consider sincere and to me that is very important.
I strongly believe that in ten or twenty years, "The Fix" will be one of the few albums from this time period that will still be discussed and will more than likely be considered a classic. I do think that a certain amount of time needs to pass before an album can be considered a classic (Yes, I'm contradicting that in this thread) but I don't know. I haven't had an album hit me like "The Fix" has in a really long time.
I've refrained from calling it a classic, even though I feel it is. I'd like to wait a few years and see if stands the test of time. I felt it was a classic from the first listen. Kinda like when I heard It Takes A Nation, Illmatic, Operation Doomsday etc. I know to some people that shouldn't even be in the same sentence and I feel you too. If you don't like it you won't get what the hype's about. All I know is that Thug Motivation replaced Reggaeton in the Chicago streets. Every ride had it in rotation. From my standpoint and the people around me, the shit was undeniable.
Now in a previous post DJ Anna brought up a topic about kids wearing snowman shirts, and that was something that I thought about as I saw kids rocking them. Jeezy reached the kids too, and hopefully they get the right motivation. "If you can stack a grand, you can stack 10 dog...You still staying with your mama, are you kidding me?/ You a part of a billion dollar industry."
bdk pe bdp kool g rap gangstarr atcq/ take your pick epmd/ take your pick de la soul/take your pick slick rick/adventures.. ice cube/death certificate wu beasties/1st, 2nd lots of others are just as obvious
Just to note, but almost everything you have listed here was recorded between 1987 to 1994 (maybe '95 or '96, but it depends on which De La and Wu albums you're including).
I'm sorry man but I just can't buy into such a limited world view where you think hip-hop has failed to produce anything worthy of classic status in the last TEN YEARS (if not more).
96-2006 as i asked in my prior post, what new full lengths would you consider classics ? again not above average lps...CLASSICS.
sad to say...but look at how many classic lps were made then..opposed to now this is mos.def NOT a golden era, so why would you expect as many "classics" to be coming out now, a time where everybody wants to have the same redundant themes with 1/3 of the style/ originality of truly groundbreaking influential artists(mcs) ??? you said it your self "well crafted"lps im not just handing out the label classic to some mediocre 1/2 way decent shit. I cant buy into TODAYS world of rap music period...lets be real...its garbage for the most part am i really supposed to get amped over the new jermaine dupri lineup ? Or maybe the new mike jones hes dope, so dope infact he repeats the end of his verse over and over until the hook comes in or maybe the other group that wears the t-skirts and bandanas! or maybe 50... face it bro...shit done changed..not for the better i see alot of clones..never mind cats that have deals.
Comments
Soft things are not inherently bad things. They're just, you know, soft.
Nothing to argue there it's as plain as day to me,he just isn't as good at it as they're.
he's better.
I'm borrowin' your style for a minute Brian, if you dont mind
I'll say the Federation lp has future classic status written all over it. lots of lp cuts & some great singles to come from it. Street novelist, too.
the Who? Not Classic.
Thug Motivation = Classic.
Glad we had this little talk.
Thug Motivation - Weed =
In all fairness, wouldn't this equation apply to many things in life, musical or otherwise?
a "classic" is an album i can enjoy sober or loaded......for example....Daily Operation is classic shit w/o drugs and 10 x's better on drugs
Thug Motivation is good w/drugs......boring w/o drugs
your credibility in NYC just plummeted
I always prefered "Step In the Arena."
i'll pretend i didn't read this......
and for the record......"THE FIX" ISN'T A CLASSIC !!!! it was a very good album during an extremely dry period ...but classic ?
"The Fix" and "Nation of Millions" dont belong in the same discussion.....just like "Thug Motivation" and "Death Certificate" aren't on the same level...
Very good albums and classics are two different things people .....FOCUS!
Now if we were talking about Pretty Toney...
Dude, choosing between Gang Starr's 2nd and 3rd albums is not like choosing between, say, Ice Cube's 2nd and 3rd albums. I personally never could get into "Daily Operation" in terms of the beats; I preferred the music on the previous and following albums much better but hey, that's all subjective. I don't diss people who like "Daily Operation" better; it just never moved me very much.
As for "classics" - you haven't been reading what I've been saying: the criteria/standard for what a "classic" is constantly changes, especially from generation to generation. Of course, you're welcome to list what you think are irrefutably classic albums (and I'd still like to see someone do this) but then again, so could an 18 year old and I wouldn't be so quick to validate yours and dismiss theirs just because I'd probably agree with more albums on your list.
It's not that "everything is relative" since that makes any kind of consensus-building value building impossible, but your quickness to dismiss "The Fix" as a non-classic simply because it doesn't stand up to "Nations" seems rather myopic.
Seriously: what's the last certified clsasic in your book? If it's 10 years or older, then it's not hip-hop with the problem my friend, it'd be you.
BAN ME NOW !!!!!
i think classics are timeless...'Strictly Business' is timeless...you could not tell me in 93' that '93' til infinity' wasn't a classic but i cant listen to that shit these days.....because we were fortunate enough to grow up in an era when the standards were much higher what we would have considered very good albums are now considered classics...
and because classics are timeless i feel it is absolutely fair to hold today's music to the same standard as 'nation of millions' etc.......
Trap Musik= Classic
Thug Motivation = very good timing
Normally, I'd agree with you here but the truth is: what's the last rap album to really break some new ground, either within the genre or hip-hop in general? I'd offer up the OutKast "Speakerboxxx/Love Below" CDs. What about "The Blueprint"? or "Supreme Clientele"? I don't know if either of those two albums really "broke new ground" but rather, were just very well-crafted albums that (arguably) demonstrated what the pinnacle of the genre could produce under the right circumstances.
Not every "classic" has to be a paradigm shift: think about classic rock or soul albums.
As for Jeezy being a follower vs. getting bit by others - the two are NOT mutually exclusive. One could argue that Jay-Z simply copped the same kind of topical ground Biggie, Mobb Deep and the Wu were fucking with.
Shit, for that matter, was NWA even that "original"? Weren't they just riffing on older OG gangsta rappers like Schooly D?
Better said:
raw hamburger, post your list of classic rap albums or you're a vanilla frostee cone.
Normally, I'd agree with you here but the truth is: what's the last rap album to really break some new ground, either within the genre or hip-hop in general? I'd offer up the OutKast "Speakerboxxx/Love Below"
- ALL THE MAKINGS OF A CLASSIC LP
As for Jeezy being a follower vs. getting bit by others - the two are NOT mutually exclusive. One could argue that Jay-Z simply copped the same kind of topical ground Biggie, Mobb Deep and the Wu were fucking with.
- Key word being topic, its not the topics that get bit ( although shit is zzzz...zzz) its style, flow, etc.. etc.. Cmon, dudes not that influential ( classics usually have such an impact)
lps like the blueprint, and supreme clientele are from artists who have already given us classic material in a time where most rappers aspired to be these mcs...do to the fact shit was so influential.
Shit, for that matter, was NWA even that "original"? Weren't they just riffing on older OG gangsta rappers like ICE T ?
NWA as far as image and style...were totally original compared to schooly d! they also sounded NOTHING like schooly d... schooly was looking at his watch, while nwa was talkin bout comptons in the house and screaming fuck the police..
look my original point was we have heard it all before, much better then this...so how many cats are gonna start quoting this dude...and using his style ? you know hes so damn original and influential...
when you come with that classic shit...everybody emulates
if this is a classic...thats saying alot for what exists out there now
i do not care to own this lp on vinyl.
Better said:
raw hamburger, post your list of classic rap albums or you're a vanilla frostee cone.
bdk
pe
bdp
kool g rap
gangstarr
atcq/ take your pick
epmd/ take your pick
de la soul/take your pick
slick rick/adventures..
ice cube/death certificate
wu
beasties/1st, 2nd
lots of others are just as obvious
If the above are to be considered classic...What new full lengths are really worthy of the label classic ?
Just to note, but almost everything you have listed here was recorded between 1987 to 1994 (maybe '95 or '96, but it depends on which De La and Wu albums you're including).
I'm sorry man but I just can't buy into such a limited world view where you think hip-hop has failed to produce anything worthy of classic status in the last TEN YEARS (if not more).
"The Fix" to me is a classic because it is an all-around good album with no bad tracks on it, the subject matter is varied but uncompromising, the production slams, and lastly it's a sincere album. Scarface is one of the few rappers still doing it today that I could consider sincere and to me that is very important.
I strongly believe that in ten or twenty years, "The Fix" will be one of the few albums from this time period that will still be discussed and will more than likely be considered a classic. I do think that a certain amount of time needs to pass before an album can be considered a classic (Yes, I'm contradicting that in this thread) but I don't know. I haven't had an album hit me like "The Fix" has in a really long time.
Now in a previous post DJ Anna brought up a topic about kids wearing snowman shirts, and that was something that I thought about as I saw kids rocking them. Jeezy reached the kids too, and hopefully they get the right motivation. "If you can stack a grand, you can stack 10 dog...You still staying with your mama, are you kidding me?/ You a part of a billion dollar industry."
XXL
96-2006
as i asked in my prior post, what new full lengths would you consider classics ?
again not above average lps...CLASSICS.
sad to say...but look at how many classic lps were made then..opposed to now this is mos.def NOT a golden era, so why would you expect as many "classics" to be coming out now, a time where everybody wants to have the same redundant themes with 1/3 of the style/ originality of truly groundbreaking influential artists(mcs) ???
you said it your self "well crafted"lps im not just handing out the label classic to some mediocre 1/2 way decent shit.
I cant buy into TODAYS world of rap music period...lets be real...its garbage for the most part
am i really supposed to get amped over the new jermaine dupri lineup ? Or maybe the new mike jones hes dope, so dope infact he repeats the end of his verse over and over until the hook comes in
or maybe the other group that wears the t-skirts and bandanas! or maybe 50...
face it bro...shit done changed..not for the better
i see alot of clones..never mind cats that have deals.
"if you don't think a classic rap album
has been made in the last 10 years,
it's your limited vision and not rap eating itself."
people still make jazz records -
when was the last really classic jazz record?
ditto for country music.
shit, ditto for soul music.