There's so many side threads in here, it's hard to figure out what the fuck anyone is talking about.
I will say this much: I was highly entertained by the debate over whether or not soccer moms listen to Common or not. Just to point out though: the song came out in 2000 and even if a bunch of collegiate white women (w/ or w/o dreads) were listening to it then, I find it somewhat unlikely that, generationally, they've all become moms in the last 5/6 years considering that the average child bearing age of college educated women has been steadily moving back from the mid-20s to late-20s. How many women in their mid-20s even have kids old enough to be playing soccer? Advantage: Noz.
Re: Jeezy - I find all this hate around recent rap to be so typical of a generation of hip-hop listeners who are either in their late 20s or over 30 at this point. I've made this point many times: do you think there's a smaller % of 17 year olds who think today's hip-hop is incredible then there was 15 years ago when we were 17 or so?
Of course not.
If you can't find anything that you like, that's on YOU to a large extent. Yeah, sure, hip-hop has changed. And I'd even concur that it's not as innovative as it once was simply b/c the music has gotten older; it's already pushed into whatever new areas it's going to push into. And hell, I'll even agree that someone like Jeezy isn't doing anything "new" that hasn't already been done before.
But the mark of a classic - and this coming from someone who put out a book about classic albums, so it's a criteria I've thought about - is the convergence of many factors - not solely based on popularity or innovation (as if the two were some how diametrically opposed). To me, the simpler question to ask is: will this album stand the test of time? Will people give a fuck about in 5 years?
Personally, I'm not a good prognosticator (but my hindsight is 20/20!) but I'll say this much: Jeezy's album struck a chord with a large, diverse cross section of music fans this year. Maybe everybody's caught up in crack rap fad that will fade this year and Jeezy will seem anachronistic down the line but personally, some things don't go out of style and an MC who seems mega "real" to people - regardless of how true that may or may not be - and who puts out an album with a few hit singles that people will remember (like "Go Crazy") is as good a contender for "new classic" as you could hope for.
Can we agree that "The Fix" by Scarface is a new classic? Came out in 2002 and seriously, he wasn't rapping about anything we hadn't heard before but I think most people would give 'Face the nod even if they're skeptical about Jeezy. What about the Clipse's debut fromm the same year? I think that's seen as a new classic in hindsight too even though, at the time, I thought the album was more of a gimmick but with enough time, it's aged into something more, for whatever reason.
I mean, a lot of cats on this site listen to some fucking thugged out shit- I don't know how much of that really jibes with the personal lifestyle, yao?
It doesn't jibe at all, but quess what: it doesn't have to. THIS IS ENTERTAINMENT PEOPLE!!! nothing more, nothing less...Like maybe I'm not a cook or chef but I love Food Network...
and as for the rest of your post Johnny P, This country is NOT NYC and its NOT Oakland for beter or worse it's everything inbetween...[/b]
I don't really know what that's supposed to mean.
I think the subject of suburban whites being entertained by Black supermen with a bent for crime and violence definitely is worthy of examination beyond "THIS IS ENTERTAINMENT"
Gary, girls laughing at me doesn't "burn" like you fantasize it does, nor does the misinformed schitt you seem to have me on. I honestly don't know why you have some negative energy/beef towards me (considering I've always been down with the Dizzy Bull and hooked you up with many records), but hey that's your perogative. No problem. I'll be honest, I like to act a fool and have fun on this board and sometimes in the real world. Acting hard on the STMB? Yeah, my bad. LOL. Whatevrs. It is what it is.
It's RADD that you went out of your way to read it and laugh heartily to yourself though. Guess I know who has the hardon now.
Anyhow, this is totally boring to me but for those who actually care (all two of you), I think this schitt stems from quashed real world "beef" I had for half a day (!!!) with someone else who will remained nameless. Actually I went out of my way and apologized for what might, (MIGHT!) have been perceived as a jack move (a whole 'nother story). That schitt was and is very over. It was MY BAD, and never went any further than a misunderstanding for 1/2 a day and I am very cool with said person who I quashed the "beef" with. He and I both know this. I am not into having beef with anyone, ever.
From what I understand your animosity for me seems to stem from this incident that was relayed to you that same evening it had happened, along with your perceptions/judgements of me as being soft, or whatever else you dislike/want to laugh at me about. No problem if that's what you like to do to people who once considered you a friend. You never cared to explain it and I honestly could care less. If you forgot, I actually have had a lot of respect for you in the past. Hosting the Strut get-togethers was really big of you, and not everyone can jam/play mean blues piano...but me having a hardon for you? Nah man, I haven't been calling you or your friends. You know this.
So yeah, I'm ready. Go ahead and "bring it," do whatever you want. I have to go run some errands, so go ahead and run your mouth about me. No worries dude, you be you and I'll be me.
I think the subject of suburban whites being entertained by Black supermen with a bent for crime and violence definitely is worthy of examination beyond "THIS IS ENTERTAINMENT"
REally, I'm not supposed to be entertained. This in't "showbusiness"? The "entertainment industry"? Come on now... I'm sure 80% of what Jeezy says is bullshit. It's for entertainment value. Rap is wrestling I guess I gave everyone too much credit think ya'll all knew this. BTW I am white but I'm not suburban. My the US isn't NYC or Oakland statement was based on the fact that your post seemed to say that those two areas were the only ones worthy of basing a crowds reaction to a song or that those were the only "real" places connected to the "streets"...
Hmmm. I have to admit I didn't see that one coming....
Like I said before, I'm all for letting sleeping dogs lie, and I am in no rush to get into any online beef. I've left you alone but you've been throwing sideways comments at me for a while now. It wasn't until now that I decided to call you on it, and I'm glad you've decided to avoid a pissing contest. And since you don't want to take this any further (I don't either) then we are back to square one. Like you said, you do your thing and I'll do mine.
Anyone else think that Jeezy would have got a Grammy if he had some shit like Jadakiss - Why or something like that?
No offense but all this "Jeezy was snubbed" shit is ridiciulous.
1) Why the FUCK would any care if a rap act was nominated for a Grammy? As if the Grammys have ever had a shread of legitimacy in any genre, especially hip-hop. That's why I think it's so laughable that Kanye gets all ass hurt over nominations and what not: so long as you're selling in the streets (and Wal-Marts), why do you need a silly little statue for validation?
Do you know how many albums of the year the Beatles won? One. (Sgt. Pepper's) How many songs of the year? One. ("Michelle") How many records of the year? None.
'nuff said.
2) Look at who got nominated this year in both Rap Song and Rap Album:
Song:
Candy Shop Diamond From Sierra Leone (winner) Don't Phunk With My Heart (this inclusion automatically invalidates the entire category) Hate It Or Love It Lose Control
Album: Be The Cookbook Encore The Massacre Late Registration
Jeezy was NOWHERE near having the kind of pop crossover appeal that would have gotten him a nomination compared to these other albums. And I think Jeezy's probably sitting fine with that reality.
I think the subject of suburban whites being entertained by Black supermen with a bent for crime and violence definitely is worthy of examination beyond "THIS IS ENTERTAINMENT"
REally, I'm not supposed to be entertained. This in't "showbusiness"? The "entertainment industry"? Come on now... I'm sure 80% of what Jeezy says is bullshit. It's for entertainment value. Rap is wrestling I guess I gave everyone too much credit think ya'll all knew this. BTW I am white but I'm not suburban. My the US isn't NYC or Oakland statement was based on the fact that your post seemed to say that those two areas were the only ones worthy of basing a crowds reaction to a song or that those were the only "real" places connected to the "streets"...
Nah I just mentioned those places because it's the two places I've lived. I'm not going to speak on what it's like in houston or boston or atlanta or miami because I've never spent any significant time in those places.
As for Jeezy's shit being 80% made up, it isn't (from reliable sources) and for it being show business, or wrestling, I would say that different people take different things away from it and it's not all as you say. I think that's more your individual perspective on it.
As for Jeezy's shit being 80% made up, it isn't (from reliable sources)
Gucci Mane said Jeezy's a studio gangsta i read it in murder dog magazine,i'm sorry if this kills it for you.
I also read that Gucci Mane got his teeth knocked out when he was inside. I don't believe everything I read though, just what I'm told by industry insiders...
I also read that Gucci Mane got his teeth knocked out when he was inside. I don't believe everything I read though, just what I'm told by industry insiders...
I tend to believe this is the reason he really "sucks" also(pun intended)
You guys always wanna twist this shit around into some kind of race/"you're not hood" argument.
Thats fine and everything, but I dont have anything to add to that. I am comfortable talking about how i am not from the hood, how I am pasty white, and im a internet rap nerd. Whatever...
I simply think its a very good record. I made an honest attempt to tell you why I like it. It doesnt mean i only wanna hear gangster rap. Far from it, most of that shit is totally played out and im sick of it. I do think jeezy brings an original style to the game, and I really enjoy his music. I like his energy, and I think he sounds as if he writes from his heart.
It really doesnt have a whole lot to do with how gangster he is in real life or anything. He could be exposed tomorrow and i would still say this is a great record.
You probably have a point though. High Rolling coke dealers are not people i hang around with on a daily basis. There is probably a healthy vouyeristic appeal to alot of dudes music (no homo?). But then, mabye if you were in the mob or something, you wouldnt like mob movies either. I dont know, im not very street.
However, I would like to submit that most of the people in here hating on this record have probably not given it a full listen. They are also largely the same people talking about how rap is terrible now and it was better in the 1940's, or whenever most of you old fucks were teenagers (just playing!).
I know there is ALOT of bullshit out there that on the surface seems to be the same thing as Jeezy's music, but in spite of this, I think young jeezy does it better and that he produced a classic record.
If nothing else, look how it gets people talking! You're gonna have some reaction to it whether you love it or hate it.
Anyways, i was just saying i think its really good and people that havent should check it out. Now please tell me what was interesting or original about that common record?
to follow up on the insignificance of the grammy sentiment:
Nearly twice as many people watched ???American Idol??? than the Grammy Awards Wednesday when the two music programs went head-to-head in prime time, according to preliminary estimates by Nielsen Media Research.
They are also largely the same people talking about how rap is terrible now and it was better in the 1940's, or whenever most of you old fucks were teenagers (just playing!).
Can we agree that "The Fix" by Scarface is a new classic? Came out in 2002 and seriously, he wasn't rapping about anything we hadn't heard before but I think most people would give 'Face the nod even if they're skeptical about Jeezy. What about the Clipse's debut fromm the same year? I think that's seen as a new classic in hindsight too even though, at the time, I thought the album was more of a gimmick but with enough time, it's aged into something more, for whatever reason.
Yup to "the fix". Personally anyways. I dont think it had as much of an impact as the jeezy record per say, but who's gonna argue that its not a classic record? Nobody.
As for the clipse, I would say Grindin is a classic single. I might leave it at that though.
Did i hear Odub agree that Jeezy dropped a classic record?
And anyway, the Kanye record will be considered a classic as well. And thats pretty much a different world completely than jeezy. I think rap is in a real healthy place right now.
IMO, yes. I don't know if it's as good pound for pound but that's like arguing which is better, Illmatic or Cuban Links. Different animals and shit. Leopards and Elephants.
tell me what is so unique/ different about young jeezy ? last time i checked ive heard all this shit before but done much better.
CHARISMA, ATTITUDE & HOT BEATS...if you don't agree, who then is abetter thug rapper WITH as much personality AND hard (no ayo) beats?
You have got to be kidding right ? Thats what sets him apart from all the other cats in the game right now? CHARISMA =GHOSTFACE! ATTITUDE ? how about CLONE !! im soooo tired of drug dealers that rap. HOT BEATS ? WOW !
its the same ol same ol...dudes yapping about macs and straps and $$ and bitches and cars....yawn.
same shit that's been rapped about on countless "classic" records unless all you listen too is college, emo and nerd rap...
You have got to be kidding right ? Thats what sets him apart from all the other cats in the game right now? CHARISMA =GHOSTFACE!
ATTITUDE ? how about CLONE !! im soooo tired of drug dealers that rap.
HOT BEATS ? WOW !
like i said "last time i checked ive heard all this shit before but done much better"
nothing jeezy does is all that...seriously. Yall given this shit labels like classic ? Look at what else exists in this game right now....its alllllllll the same. Classic means groundbreaking,original, standing the test of time, new and different, forefront, maybe even thought provoking..( i know that is alot to handle) again...ive heard this shit before, i live around it...show me something i dont know.
ive got a good idea....let me rap about what everybody else is rapping about
shit is dead...rap needs to completely eat itself. Gone are the days of originality and artistry... as far as college emo nerd rap...no.
rap is the worst it has ever been right now
TRAP OR DIE KON!!
Seriously though, rap is in the process of eating itself right now. Its a pretty interesting show if you stop and check it our for a minute. Shit like snap music reminds me of when punk rock first came out. No one could play their instruments, and the songs were dead simple and often pretty crass. But it was still good, and it was a reaction to all the super slick disco and overblown 70's orchestra album rock that preceeded it.
Now please tell me what was interesting or original about that common record?
I like it. plain and simple. i think the beats are dope, the flow is there,it got me in a good mood, it is not too long, so every song could grow on me (no ayo). And it's a totally different ballpark than YJ. Now, i agree with your statement about mafia people probably not liking mafia movies. As far as i know, all heavy dudes in my area rather listen to some smooth R'n'B than listening to some 5thward ish... and i agree that the times cannot be better for Rap! Hell, last weekend in the club we played everything from money boss to kanye to some swedish ish to some dutch ish to some westcoast to some 'intimate' and all the way back. people loved it. Actually I prefer djing rapmusic now to what it was back in 99/2000 when you were more formated and had to please certain crowds (e.g. Rawkus or Death Row) I mean, you probably still can do that today, but i don't give a shit. Maybe an asset of gettin older. If I play, I play what I like, simple as that. which brings me back to the start of this post. nuff said.
Comments
I will say this much: I was highly entertained by the debate over whether or not soccer moms listen to Common or not. Just to point out though: the song came out in 2000 and even if a bunch of collegiate white women (w/ or w/o dreads) were listening to it then, I find it somewhat unlikely that, generationally, they've all become moms in the last 5/6 years considering that the average child bearing age of college educated women has been steadily moving back from the mid-20s to late-20s. How many women in their mid-20s even have kids old enough to be playing soccer? Advantage: Noz.
Re: Jeezy - I find all this hate around recent rap to be so typical of a generation of hip-hop listeners who are either in their late 20s or over 30 at this point. I've made this point many times: do you think there's a smaller % of 17 year olds who think today's hip-hop is incredible then there was 15 years ago when we were 17 or so?
Of course not.
If you can't find anything that you like, that's on YOU to a large extent. Yeah, sure, hip-hop has changed. And I'd even concur that it's not as innovative as it once was simply b/c the music has gotten older; it's already pushed into whatever new areas it's going to push into. And hell, I'll even agree that someone like Jeezy isn't doing anything "new" that hasn't already been done before.
But the mark of a classic - and this coming from someone who put out a book about classic albums, so it's a criteria I've thought about - is the convergence of many factors - not solely based on popularity or innovation (as if the two were some how diametrically opposed). To me, the simpler question to ask is: will this album stand the test of time? Will people give a fuck about in 5 years?
Personally, I'm not a good prognosticator (but my hindsight is 20/20!) but I'll say this much: Jeezy's album struck a chord with a large, diverse cross section of music fans this year. Maybe everybody's caught up in crack rap fad that will fade this year and Jeezy will seem anachronistic down the line but personally, some things don't go out of style and an MC who seems mega "real" to people - regardless of how true that may or may not be - and who puts out an album with a few hit singles that people will remember (like "Go Crazy") is as good a contender for "new classic" as you could hope for.
Can we agree that "The Fix" by Scarface is a new classic? Came out in 2002 and seriously, he wasn't rapping about anything we hadn't heard before but I think most people would give 'Face the nod even if they're skeptical about Jeezy. What about the Clipse's debut fromm the same year? I think that's seen as a new classic in hindsight too even though, at the time, I thought the album was more of a gimmick but with enough time, it's aged into something more, for whatever reason.
I don't really know what that's supposed to mean.
I think the subject of suburban whites being entertained by Black supermen with a bent for crime and violence definitely is worthy of examination beyond "THIS IS ENTERTAINMENT"
Mark, you made the right choice. I'm proud of you!
It's RADD that you went out of your way to read it and laugh heartily to yourself though. Guess I know who has the hardon now.
Anyhow, this is totally boring to me but for those who actually care (all two of you), I think this schitt stems from quashed real world "beef" I had for half a day (!!!) with someone else who will remained nameless. Actually I went out of my way and apologized for what might, (MIGHT!) have been perceived as a jack move (a whole 'nother story). That schitt was and is very over. It was MY BAD, and never went any further than a misunderstanding for 1/2 a day and I am very cool with said person who I quashed the "beef" with. He and I both know this. I am not into having beef with anyone, ever.
From what I understand your animosity for me seems to stem from this incident that was relayed to you that same evening it had happened, along with your perceptions/judgements of me as being soft, or whatever else you dislike/want to laugh at me about. No problem if that's what you like to do to people who once considered you a friend. You never cared to explain it and I honestly could care less. If you forgot, I actually have had a lot of respect for you in the past. Hosting the Strut get-togethers was really big of you, and not everyone can jam/play mean blues piano...but me having a hardon for you? Nah man, I haven't been calling you or your friends. You know this.
So yeah, I'm ready. Go ahead and "bring it," do whatever you want. I have to go run some errands, so go ahead and run your mouth about me. No worries dude, you be you and I'll be me.
To quote Scarface:
"...it ain't shit..."
Nah man, take a good hard look at yourself first, and don't bother calling me out with your weakass schitt.
Yup, my sentiments exactly. I wouldn't even call this beef.
Like I said before, I'm all for letting sleeping dogs lie, and I am in no rush to get into any online beef. I've left you alone but you've been throwing sideways comments at me for a while now. It wasn't until now that I decided to call you on it, and I'm glad you've decided to avoid a pissing contest. And since you don't want to take this any further (I don't either) then we are back to square one. Like you said, you do your thing and I'll do mine.
No offense but all this "Jeezy was snubbed" shit is ridiciulous.
1) Why the FUCK would any care if a rap act was nominated for a Grammy? As if the Grammys have ever had a shread of legitimacy in any genre, especially hip-hop. That's why I think it's so laughable that Kanye gets all ass hurt over nominations and what not: so long as you're selling in the streets (and Wal-Marts), why do you need a silly little statue for validation?
Do you know how many albums of the year the Beatles won? One. (Sgt. Pepper's)
How many songs of the year? One. ("Michelle")
How many records of the year? None.
'nuff said.
2) Look at who got nominated this year in both Rap Song and Rap Album:
Song:
Candy Shop
Diamond From Sierra Leone (winner)
Don't Phunk With My Heart (this inclusion automatically invalidates the entire category)
Hate It Or Love It
Lose Control
Album:
Be
The Cookbook
Encore
The Massacre
Late Registration
Jeezy was NOWHERE near having the kind of pop crossover appeal that would have gotten him a nomination compared to these other albums. And I think Jeezy's probably sitting fine with that reality.
Thug Motivation =
Fucking
Nah I just mentioned those places because it's the two places I've lived. I'm not going to speak on what it's like in houston or boston or atlanta or miami because I've never spent any significant time in those places.
As for Jeezy's shit being 80% made up, it isn't (from reliable sources) and for it being show business, or wrestling, I would say that different people take different things away from it and it's not all as you say. I think that's more your individual perspective on it.
That's probably the single most awesome thing I've ever seen on this website
Gucci Mane said Jeezy's a studio gangsta i read it in murder dog magazine,i'm sorry if this kills it for you.
I also read that Gucci Mane got his teeth knocked out when he was inside. I don't believe everything I read though, just what I'm told by industry insiders...
I tend to believe this is the reason he really "sucks" also(pun intended)
Thats fine and everything, but I dont have anything to add to that. I am comfortable talking about how i am not from the hood, how I am pasty white, and im a internet rap nerd. Whatever...
I simply think its a very good record. I made an honest attempt to tell you why I like it. It doesnt mean i only wanna hear gangster rap. Far from it, most of that shit is totally played out and im sick of it. I do think jeezy brings an original style to the game, and I really enjoy his music. I like his energy, and I think he sounds as if he writes from his heart.
It really doesnt have a whole lot to do with how gangster he is in real life or anything. He could be exposed tomorrow and i would still say this is a great record.
You probably have a point though. High Rolling coke dealers are not people i hang around with on a daily basis. There is probably a healthy vouyeristic appeal to alot of dudes music (no homo?). But then, mabye if you were in the mob or something, you wouldnt like mob movies either. I dont know, im not very street.
However, I would like to submit that most of the people in here hating on this record have probably not given it a full listen. They are also largely the same people talking about how rap is terrible now and it was better in the 1940's, or whenever most of you old fucks were teenagers (just playing!).
I know there is ALOT of bullshit out there that on the surface seems to be the same thing as Jeezy's music, but in spite of this, I think young jeezy does it better and that he produced a classic record.
If nothing else, look how it gets people talking! You're gonna have some reaction to it whether you love it or hate it.
Anyways, i was just saying i think its really good and people that havent should check it out. Now please tell me what was interesting or original about that common record?
-- abc news
hahahahahaaaa
Yup to "the fix". Personally anyways. I dont think it had as much of an impact as the jeezy record per say, but who's gonna argue that its not a classic record? Nobody.
As for the clipse, I would say Grindin is a classic single. I might leave it at that though.
Did i hear Odub agree that Jeezy dropped a classic record?
And anyway, the Kanye record will be considered a classic as well. And thats pretty much a different world completely than jeezy. I think rap is in a real healthy place right now.
IMO, yes. I don't know if it's as good pound for pound but that's like arguing which is better, Illmatic or Cuban Links. Different animals and shit. Leopards and Elephants.
TRAP OR DIE KON!!
Seriously though, rap is in the process of eating itself right now. Its a pretty interesting show if you stop and check it our for a minute. Shit like snap music reminds me of when punk rock first came out. No one could play their instruments, and the songs were dead simple and often pretty crass. But it was still good, and it was a reaction to all the super slick disco and overblown 70's orchestra album rock that preceeded it.
I like it. plain and simple. i think the beats are dope, the flow is there,it got me in a good mood, it is not too long, so every song could grow on me (no ayo). And it's a totally different ballpark than YJ. Now, i agree with your statement about mafia people probably not liking mafia movies. As far as i know, all heavy dudes in my area rather listen to some smooth R'n'B than listening to some 5thward ish...
and i agree that the times cannot be better for Rap! Hell, last weekend in the club we played everything from money boss to kanye to some swedish ish to some dutch ish to some westcoast to some 'intimate' and all the way back. people loved it. Actually I prefer djing rapmusic now to what it was back in 99/2000 when you were more formated and had to please certain crowds (e.g. Rawkus or Death Row) I mean, you probably still can do that today, but i don't give a shit. Maybe an asset of gettin older. If I play, I play what I like, simple as that. which brings me back to the start of this post. nuff said.