What happened to Primo? Or us?

mannybolone

So I'm listening to the new Big Shug CD (downloaded off the internet in case you're vaguely interested) and Premier does about 2/3rds of the production on here. Now, keep in mind...up until a few years ago, Primo was basically god-like in my book. Dude could not do wrong and I've felt like that since the early '90s, ok? But most of what I've heard from Preem these last few years, since the last Gang Starr album (where I liked a good # of the tracks) sounds really flat, uninspired and boring to me.To put it in other terms: Primo now sounds like a parody of himself, like he studied some DVD on "How to Make Beats Like Primo" and basically has worn a once fruitful sound into a barren shell of its former self. Now, let's keep in mind: Big Shug rhyming over the hottest track could probably dead that shit but hell, I've heard some weak MCs over fuggin' hot Just Blaze and Neptunes songs and the beats still knock so I don't know if I can blame Shug on this one.Is it Primo? Is it me? Seriously, I get so much more pleasure out of something like, "Heard 'Em Say" than I do on anything here but I can't figure out what's happened. I know Primo's style plateued years ago and he hasn't really done anything new but I was down with that sound for such a long time, it's weird to me that I just can't hang with it now.

Grafwritah

To put it in other terms: Primo now sounds like a parody of himself, like he studied some DVD on "How to Make Beats Like Primo" and basically has worn a once fruitful sound into a barren shell of its former self.

I know Primo's style plateued years ago and he hasn't really done anything new but I was down with that sound for such a long time, it's weird to me that I just can't hang with it now.

He probably knows this, too.

He's probably depressed.

He's a Christian soldier in an unholy war called MIKE JONES, UHHHH MIKE JONESSSSS!!!!

Delay

dude is having trouble changing w/ the times. if you heard another beat that sounded like "i'm the man" you'd be disapointed too.

Grafwritah

dude is having trouble changing w/ the times. if you heard another beat that sounded like "i'm the man" you'd be disapointed too.

I agree.

sometimes it's just time to hang it up. If he could carry on I think that would be great, but it seems like most can't do that. Instead of ending on a low note, just hang the shit up early like Seinfeld on go out riding high.

Of course, I think Primo already fucked that up.

PEK

dude is having trouble changing w/ the times. if you heard another beat that sounded like "i'm the man" you'd be disapointed too.

I agree.

sometimes it's just time to hang it up. If he could carry on I think that would be great, but it seems like most can't do that. Instead of ending on a low note, just hang the shit up early like Seinfeld on go out riding high.

Of course, I think Primo already fucked that up.

Pete Rock's confronted w/ the same dilemma as well to a certain extent - it's as if both are seemingly lost in the current state of hip-hop... This doesn't discount either's (vast) contribution, especially in the early '90s, but their current bag of tricks resembles that of an aged boxer, whose talents are clearly on the wane, trying to hold on for one last meager shot of glory; better to burnish the legacy by retiring @ this juncture as opposed to releasing material that's subpar and doing a disservice to said legacy... This creative arc pretty much holds true in a lot of the arts - look @ Kurosawa in his prime versus his output from the mid-'80s until his death... Or Fellini...

mannybolone

Or Showbiz. I also listened to his new CD tonight. It's hard to reconcile how Freestyle Professors goes for hundreds just b/c Show's name's on it and then listen to what he's doing now.

PEK

Or Showbiz. I also listened to his new CD tonight. It's hard to reconcile how Freestyle Professors goes for hundreds just b/c Show's name's on it and then listen to what he's doing now.

This was a topic I wanted to broach w/ Jeff (Chang) a few weeks back; the accelerated pace of hip-hop really makes a postdated expiration date far more of an issue than previous/other genres (from what I can gather/see) - the continual and pivotal focus on the new/novel is what grabs the public 's imagination... And it's not a recent phenomenon either - I remember everyone checking for the next[/b] back in the '80s...

Premier's had a great run - no disputing that, but sometimes it's the most difficult/hardest for the person in question to acknowledge the writing on the wall...

Kinetic

Pete Rock's confronted w/ the same dilemma as well to a certain extent

Soooo co-sign.

I find the same thing with pete Rock's new shit that you're saying about Preem now.

Mongo_Slade

That's a good-ass question, but I think it boils down to: hip hop has progressed a lot in the last few years, Premier hasn't.

Grafwritah

That's a good-ass question, but I think it boils down to: hip hop has regressed[/b] a lot in the last few years, Premier hasn't.

youngEINSTEIN

the only songs he's ever sounded different on to me were the first album and half the arena album everything since then has been pretty blueprint primo with the exeption of come clean. but i still think hes the most consistent producer in the history of hip hop and i really wish he produced the new guru album. peace, stein. . .

Olski

but i still think dre is the most consistent producer in the history of hip hop but even he would not have able to make the guru album any better. peace, olski. . .

kenny

nah nah nah!!

you guys should wait for the new Blaq Poet album...

i think thats gonna be the next big Primo project.

Bsides

You guys arent being fair. What do you want primo to sound like? Just blaze? I think just blaze has that covered.


Primo beats are tied to an era where the mc was expected to be the one dropping science. They're not complicated. Its just some boom bap shit for an mc to explode on.

I feel like these days the beat is basicly expected to carry most, if not all of the song. It makes for some great production, and its true that few people really care about lyricism anymore, but you cant listen to primo shit with that same standard.

Now I will certainly agree that he is probably past his prime. But c'mon! He had a good run. Id bet hes more focussed now on his family and shit. The big shug album was probably just a very old promise that he had to finally deliver on.

And by the way, Big Shug? Possibly the worst rapper Ive heard all year. Hearing his old ass trying to flip some pimp shit over some gutter primo beat is about the most inapropriate thing you could think of.


Old primo shit is still amazing to me. Even on moment of truth. Tracks like "better luck next time" and the shit with scarface? So hard.

Primo is legendary. And judging him on the basis of the big shug album is like Judging the rolling stones on the basis of that mick jagger and lenny krapitz tragedy.

Anyway, im tired of people talking about legendary producers like they are scrubs trying to get a placement on the new jim jones record or something. Just because you dont hear pete rock on the radio every day on some new ciara track doesnt mean hes wack now.

Nothing these dudes do now is ever going to take away from the fact that they are some of the best that ever did it.

kenny

yea I think he's just trying to bring back many of his old promises with the Foundation.

well, AZ's "The Come Up" is surprisingly good imo. I actually thought it might probably be one of his older beats that he want to give to AZ, cuz he hasn't made that type of beats in a long time.

Phill_Most

This is a good question to ponder, Oliver. Primo really hasn't changed much at all. If he dropped what in 1994 would have been considered a classic Primo beat today, do you really think the rap fans of today would make that "oh shit!" face like they did back then? They wouldn't. Times have changed, that's all. The majority of rap fans of today get excited over a whole different kind of sound that DEFINITELY would not have flown with the "real hip hop" afficianados of 1994.
This is not to say that Primo is exactly the same dude as he was in 1994... I do think he's dropping more beats now than he did back then (I was as disappointed with that last Gangstarr album as most people were). But over the past five or so years I've heard some stuff by Premier that I thought was hot to death too, and most people were still like . Ultimately I think the listeners have changed a lot more than Primo has- whether it's for the better or for the worse is debatable, but clearly people are on some other schitt these days.
And for those who think that Primo should switch up his sound, do you have any suggestions on how he should change? Should he try to make beats more like (insert the name of your favorite producer of the moment)? Should he just reinvent himself with a brand new unheard-of hip hop style that's totally different from that classic Primo choppy sample style? More handclaps? More live instrumentation? Bring in Jon Brion as his sidekick, maybe?

Kinetic

Pete Rock's confronted w/ the same dilemma as well to a certain extent

Soooo co-sign.

I find the same thing with pete Rock's new shit that you're saying about Preem now.

I dont really get how people hate on Pete Rock.

I don't do hate.

I just don't 'like.'

Socrates

Preem will always be my fav. I think every LP should have at least 1 preem track.



I definetly don't think he should hang his hat up tho like some other cats are posting. He just needs to dig deep down inside.



It's funny, i feel about Primo how some kid in the 50's-60's probably felt about Mickey Mantle. Mickey Mantle "God Like"..... Mickey goes thru hitting slump. It's like the end of the world for the kid.



Maybe he should smoke a blunt, drink a 40, and get laid, then open a restaurant?????





~Crates

Grope

Preem will always be my fav. I think every LP should have at least 1 preem track.

mcdee

With a topic like this I thought it would be a whole different Premo subject. Maybe you guys havent heard yet - but Premo is gonna produce a few tracks (yes a few, not just one) for Christina Aguleras Album!





But anyways, I really think this topic applies more to Pete Rock than Premo. Premo actually dropped a few really dope beats the last few years. And Pete Rock is the one that really turned into a comedy of himself IMO. And with Pete Rock I think it happend allready in the late 90s as opposed to Premo who lasted atleast a little bit longer... Almost a decade more?

The last thing I want is Premo switching styles...

Have you guys heard the beat he did for Tony Touch? I LOVE that beat, cant wait for the 12" to drop to get the instrumental.

DocBeezy

Im still feelin Preem beats.

But BSides is right. It is some dope boom bap to set up the rapper. Big Shug FAILS TERRIBLEY with the lyrics. If that would have been a different rapper it may have been much doper.

DocBeezy

That "Do Ya" Track would be real dope......

el_sparko

Yeah, Premo stills drops some HARD beats, definitely some "ehh" ones recently but enough good ones to keep me checking for him. High hopes for the Blaq Poet album, "Message From Poet" was DOPE. And even though it's not my favourite by a long way, people really seemed to be feeling ODB - Pop Shots, it actually gets quite a lot of love in clubs round here...

As for Pete Rock, i have less an issue with him, i think he's still making really nice beats, some of the richest basslines around, to me he's still great at that... His beat for CL on the recent(ish) "Appreciate"?
He's not gonna make another "Creator", but i'm happy to hear stuff closer to the beats on Main Ingredient...

Swayze

preem needs new drums

he's needed em for like 10 years now

get that dude some hand claps

mordecai

Pete Rock's beat for CL on the recent(ish) "Appreciate"?

emynd

I actually agree with noixe. Primo might be able to vastly update his sound by dropping--dare I say it--more synthetic sounding drums on his shit. I mean, maybe not, but it's worth a shot.

-e

edpowers

All great hip hop producers begin their success by having a distinct sound...a sound that distinguishes their beats from others... Timbaland is the best example.When Timbaland gained notoriety he probably had the most original style i had ever heard...yet,biters will bite...dude got ripped off by everyone from R&B producers to bubblegum pop producers...but eventhough Timbaland mastered that sound better than the biters he flipped his style and left that shit behind ...and he is still an elite producer..because of talent and trusting his talent....



Primo's sound has been bitten since Daily Operation (which was what 11/12 years ago?) but he never had to ditch the style because he's the master of that shit and could get away with being stuck...honestly he should have changed his style after 'Moment of Truth'...'The Ownerz was five years later and at that point the sound had been dragged through the mud (by others) and became boring ....that 'Pitch Black' beat was sick as fuck but he still should have trusted his talent,changed his style and not been afraid to let the biters have his old sound ...Hell even Kanye had to do it

Bambouche

Primo now sounds like a parody of himself.

Y'ALL STRAIGHT UP VIOLATORS!!![/b]

faux_rillz

nah nah nah!!

you guys should wait for the new Blaq Poet album...

i think thats gonna be the next big Primo project.

Primo doesn't have any more "big projects" in him.

Sun_Fortune

I see Primo as ever-tightening his formula so that now it is just forms. Its like the loop got so tight that all the music was squeezed out of it.

Mike_Bell

I see Primo as ever-tightening his formula so that now it is just forms. Its like the loop got so tight that all the music was squeezed out of it.

Damn, that statement is