I was simply reacting to Jonny's laughable defense of this Obama move. I just think it was rich how Jonny came with the Hillary comparison, talmbout this is no worse than a Hillary move. isn't the whole point that Obama is like the un-Hillary? pretty weak defense of his actions is all.
Hey I wasn't trying to defend Obama. Just scratching an itch.
"maybe a little poke."
He's got to give to Caesar what is Caesar's on this one though.
Nobody believes that he agrees with Wright on this stuff.
Wright obviously does. And, we must ask the question, if obama disagrees with wright so vehmently over so many many issues why was he in the pews listening to him for two decades?
@dj GAY: His own pastor called obamam a liar you real world circa 1994 type mufucka. He insisted that obama's repudiation of him was just 'politics' aka a show to passify the rubes shuch as you. PEEP GAME
Guilt by association, last I checked, was still a logical fallacy. I have yet to meet a credible GOPper who can actually ascribe to the belief that Obama shares any of his pastor's bullshit beliefs. Patriotism, last refuge, scoundel. You know the drill. Flag-pin on that bitch. Pfft.
And I like the thought methodology here: the same wingnut pastor that you can't trust (because he's, you know, an effing wingnut) is suddenly the most believable man in the room re: judgement when it comes to Obama. Boo.
Obama just threw his pastor and friend of 20 years under the bus. SHAMEFUL!
You mean the shameful, hateful pastor?
The trouble with poor newborn, flightless political birds like yourself is that you aren't in touch with your own beliefs. Why do you constantly play political games on this board? It's clear to msot of us that you don't even really believe the things you say. Is it better to get a rise out of lefties than to actually develop an opinion of your own? Now THAT is "shameful."
so like which comments is Obama supposedly outraged by?
from where I stand Wright's Press Club remarks are the least objectionable of any of the soundbites I've heard of his.
Which of these remarks "outraged" Obama?:
"I served six years in the military," Obama's longtime pastor said. "Does that make me patriotic? How many years did (Vice President Dick) Cheney serve?"
He said his Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago has a long history of liberating the oppressed by feeding the hungry, supporting recovery for the addicted and helping senior citizens in need. He said congregants have fought in the military, including in Afghanistan and Iraq.
"My goddaughter's unit just arrived in Iraq this week while those who call me unpatriotic have used their positions of privilege to avoid military service while sending over 4,000 American boys and girls to die over a lie," he said.
Wright said he hopes the controversy will have a positive outcome and spark an honest dialogue about race in America. Wright says black church traditions are still "invisible" to many Americans, as they have been throughout the country's history.
"Whether he gets elected or not, I'm still going to have to be answerable to God on November 5 and January 21," Wright said.
I don't see anything remotely objectionable about these remarks (with the possible exception of the 4,000-dead-for-a-lie remark, but hey the truth hurts and plus lots of Dems have alleged that the war was fought on a falsehood).
Total strawmannery here ^.
Dude - did you watch the speech? He outlined two or three of the points that he specifically disageed with.
As Wright would say, this is Obama doing what he has to do as "a politician".
This would mean lying just as Saba suggested he is guilty of.....I give Obama more credit than that.
no it's not lying. it's playing politics to save his ass. like I say when Wright really said some objectionable isht Obama just brushed it off. now he realizes he has to denounce Wright for real, so he picks this latest opportunity to express "outrage" when in reality Wright's previous remarks were far more "outrageous" than his Press Club remarks. Obama's saying what he now realizes he should have said all along for the sake of his campaign.
I don't blame Wright. he had a right to defend his words.
When your words include that the Goverment created AIDS to infect/wipe out the black population you shouldn't expect a chance to defend them, nor should people take you seriously.
maybe not, but he was nonetheless offered a chance to defend them (the Press Club and NAACP invited him to speak, and other venues clearly had an interest in hosting him). so you can't blame the man for accepting the invites and trying to explain himself.
to blame Wright for the damage this has done to Obama I just can't get with.
How can you see to type? Do you have one of those Braile keyboards?
Obama just threw his pastor and friend of 20 years under the bus. SHAMEFUL!
lets all imagine the alternate universe for a moment where ...
wow, obama jsut refused to denounce him!
Obama refuses to distance himself from his evil pastor. SHAMEFUL!
Well, of course. I think whichever line damages him most should be pushed but whatever way you spin these recent events Obama has been exposed as an opportunist and a liar.
is it a deal breaker for you, or should it be for the campaign?
no not at all.
but nor is it a "non-issue." it's totally fair to look at the kind of people ANY candidate has chosen to surround him/herself with over the years.
if we did this, most republicans would go down in flames. at least in the eyes of democrats
hey all I said was "look at."
The fact that Obama hasn't gone down this path re: Clinton's past speaks leagues to his character.
At the end of the day, this move by Obama was really the only logical chess play left. All he has to do in response to doubters now is to say "What? You mean the guy I just totally disavowed? Get current" and brush the dirt of his shoulders. I don't really see today's speech as being anything other than genuine - of course, Obama was pissed and outraged as he watched his former pastor act like a goddamn clown-assed buffoon to the world.
It's really sad that politics has devolved to this - worthless garbage taking over seriously important national and international matters.
I've been quite clear in this thread on this: I don't blame Obama for denouncing Wright this time, and nor do I blame Wright for doing Wright. Obama messed up by not getting out in front of this in the first place; Wright was an obvious liability from the jump of the campaign.
the fact of the matter is Wrights recent remarks are no more offensive than the earlier stuff; the only difference is that it's later in the campaign and comes on the heels of a Hillary vicotry in Penn (read: stakes are higher) and Wright does not look like he's gonna shut up anytime soon for the sake of the campaign. but for Obama to feign "outrage" is, well, sorta BS. Obama knew what Wright was about; nothing he said at the Press Club shocked him; but clearly Obama's handlers said "enough-is-enough-you-gotta-ditch-him-now-or-never" so he did.
I can get with most of this - although I'll agree to disagree with a few of the opinion issues here (not a big thing).
Really, though- No one knew that Wright would basically perform the egomaniacal cum-blackface act (Boo!, white folks!) he's been on for the last three days. I personally agree with the demonstrable stuff Wright says. But the timing is beyond suspect for his lunatic fringe beliefs to be aired so publically.
Dude - did you watch the speech? He outlined two or three of the points that he specifically disageed with.
The problem for all you Obamamaniacs is that there was nothing new from wright that handnt been heard before. It makes obama's claim to be 'outraged' by wright's remarks transparently false, and underscores that this denounciation is one of simple political expediency. Something which in itself is damaging to someone who throughout his candidacy has attempted to project himself as a practicioner of the 'new politics' - a politics free of cynicism and deceit.
The problem for all you Obamamaniacs is that there was nothing new from wright that handnt been heard before. It makes obama's claim to be 'outraged' by wright's remarks transparently false, and underscores that this denounciation is one of simple political expediency. Something which in itself is damaging to someone who throughout his candidacy has attempted to project himself as a practicioner of the 'new politics' - a politics free of cynicism and deceit.
As Wright would say, this is Obama doing what he has to do as "a politician".
This would mean lying just as Saba suggested he is guilty of.....I give Obama more credit than that.
no it's not lying. it's playing politics to save his ass. like I say when Wright really said some objectionable isht Obama just brushed it off. now he realizes he has to denounce Wright for real, so he picks this latest opportunity to express "outrage" when in reality Wright's previous remarks were far more "outrageous" than his Press Club remarks. Obama's saying what he now realizes he should have said all along for the sake of his campaign.
I don't blame Wright. he had a right to defend his words.
When your words include that the Goverment created AIDS to infect/wipe out the black population you shouldn't expect a chance to defend them, nor should people take you seriously.
maybe not, but he was nonetheless offered a chance to defend them (the Press Club and NAACP invited him to speak, and other venues clearly had an interest in hosting him). so you can't blame the man for accepting the invites and trying to explain himself.
to blame Wright for the damage this has done to Obama I just can't get with.
How can you see to type? Do you have one of those Braile keyboards?
Dude - did you watch the speech? He outlined two or three of the points that he specifically disageed with.
The problem for all you Obamamaniacs is that there was nothing new from wright that handnt been heard before. It makes obama's claim to be 'outraged' by wright's remarks transparently false, and underscores that this denounciation is one of simple political expediency. Something which in itself is damaging to someone who throughout his candidacy has attempted to project himself as a practicioner of the 'new politics' - a politics free of cynicism and deceit.
^^^^ this is pretty much what I have been saying, much as I am loathe to cosine a dolo poast. ^^^^
Has anyone thought that maybe he tried to appease the public and maintain his relationship with Wright the first time around but was forced to completely sever all ties with him after this "grab the spotlight" press tour? For being so intelligent and politically savvy, Wright chose an incredibly fucked up time to speak out (or get his 15 minutes of fame depending how you want to look at it). The irony is, for being so concerned with the plight of Black people, he just sabotaged the best chance we've ever had for a Black president.
I AM SAYING IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S GETTIN EM GASSED UP
that's a pretty awkward looking press conference spot though. I assume they took pains to make sure some Indiana redneck didn't run over him with a pickup truck on the way to the pump.
I think this was clearly an act of political necessity.
But to play devils advocate, and give Obama the benefit of the doubt, before, it was out of context clips edited for shock value. That doesnt negate all of his controversial statements, but it does negate "goddamn america", for me at least.
Now that dude is clearly not giving Obama the same consideration that Obama gave him in his speech, Obama has no reason left not to cut him off. Again, I think thats a highly political decision about a personal relationship/betrayal, and thats why it's being couched as being about these new statements. Dude torpedoed the whole rationale that the clips were out of context, and did the same to the underlying basis of Obama's campaign. He basically stood up and said "yes, thats what I believe, Obama's just saying what he has to to win."
I still think this is a largely personal non-issue, pushed by a media that is as sick of Hillary as the rest of us. The issue is sexy and scary, and tailor made for TV....
Dude - did you watch the speech? He outlined two or three of the points that he specifically disageed with.
The problem for all you Obamamaniacs is that there was nothing new from wright that handnt been heard before. It makes obama's claim to be 'outraged' by wright's remarks transparently false, and underscores that this denounciation is one of simple political expediency. Something which in itself is damaging to someone who throughout his candidacy has attempted to project himself as a practicioner of the 'new politics' - a politics free of cynicism and deceit.
As today's Journal - front page, not Op-Ed - noted, the man's hand was forced. He made the only decision he could make after being attacked by an man whose heights of ego had previously NOT been forseen. If Barack Obama had shown himself to agree with specific statements Wright made, and then changed his tune about those specific statements, then he could be accused of "deceit."
We've all been extremely close to folks whose opinions differ greatly from ours. I love my brother, and I'd ask him to be the Best Man at my wedding (and indeed, I am his Best Man in less than three months). He is the closest male figure present in my life. However, I cannot ascribe to his opions on cosmological and theological issues. Hell, most of our encounters end up in serious arguments whereupon, on occastion, he lets me know in no uncertain terms that I'm literally going to Hell if I don't ascribe to his acute Judeo-Christian viewpoint. This last happened only a few months ago. But our relationship is much more complex than mere hot-button issues. It's even bigger than our Ultimate tenets. We love each other, and that's that. I don't need to justify my feelings about my brother. I don't need to justify my feelings about anyone I do not do business with. Personal relationships are always more complex than the media can relay.
And to accurately define the term - YOU are the cynic in this matter. I don't even think that Michelle Malkin can do much more than insinuate that Obama and his pastor share the same views (and that, in turn, Barack Obama will turn around, once in the White House, and "destroy America" or some such malarkey). That a man has a friend whom he trusts but severely disagrees with is hardly news. The man even gave Wright an out. Had Wright stopped his show after the soft-ball but still informative Moyers piece, I'd have been fine with that.
I have stated before that this whole Wright thing has had ZERO effect on my views of Obama or what kind of President he'd make, BUT just in the interest of keeping everyone honest on here: you make the same flawed analogy Obama did 6 weeks ago with regards to his grandma: pastors you choose; family members you don't. big difference.
now back to the war, the economy, our education system, etc...
Comments
In the eyes of most Democrats, Republicans can't go down any lower than they already are.
What I'm afraid of is this turning into some pissing match of Wright vs. Hagee or somesuch.....
I think there are a lot of people who were energized by politics for the first time because of the promise of honesty and integrity.
I think they represent the people that could/would put Barack over the top in November.
If the race is reduced to negative campaigning and mudslinging those people might see it as "politics as usual" and lose their enthusiasm.
That would hurt Obama.
Hey I wasn't trying to defend Obama. Just scratching an itch.
"maybe a little poke."
He's got to give to Caesar what is Caesar's on this one though.
Why? Because I disagree with you? Meat to milk, my Anchower-ish friend.
Boo. Milk to meat. That's the lousiest "political" attack in the book. Are you 6 years old? You cannot be serious.
Guilt by association, last I checked, was still a logical fallacy. I have yet to meet a credible GOPper who can actually ascribe to the belief that Obama shares any of his pastor's bullshit beliefs. Patriotism, last refuge, scoundel. You know the drill. Flag-pin on that bitch. Pfft.
And I like the thought methodology here: the same wingnut pastor that you can't trust (because he's, you know, an effing wingnut) is suddenly the most believable man in the room re: judgement when it comes to Obama. Boo.
You mean the shameful, hateful pastor?
The trouble with poor newborn, flightless political birds like yourself is that you aren't in touch with your own beliefs. Why do you constantly play political games on this board? It's clear to msot of us that you don't even really believe the things you say. Is it better to get a rise out of lefties than to actually develop an opinion of your own? Now THAT is "shameful."
Total strawmannery here ^.
Dude - did you watch the speech? He outlined two or three of the points that he specifically disageed with.
How can you see to type? Do you have one of those Braile keyboards?
Dude - try again. Milk to meat.
The fact that Obama hasn't gone down this path re: Clinton's past speaks leagues to his character.
At the end of the day, this move by Obama was really the only logical chess play left. All he has to do in response to doubters now is to say "What? You mean the guy I just totally disavowed? Get current" and brush the dirt of his shoulders. I don't really see today's speech as being anything other than genuine - of course, Obama was pissed and outraged as he watched his former pastor act like a goddamn clown-assed buffoon to the world.
It's really sad that politics has devolved to this - worthless garbage taking over seriously important national and international matters.
I can get with most of this - although I'll agree to disagree with a few of the opinion issues here (not a big thing).
Really, though- No one knew that Wright would basically perform the egomaniacal cum-blackface act (Boo!, white folks!) he's been on for the last three days. I personally agree with the demonstrable stuff Wright says. But the timing is beyond suspect for his lunatic fringe beliefs to be aired so publically.
The problem for all you Obamamaniacs is that there was nothing new from wright that handnt been heard before. It makes obama's claim to be 'outraged' by wright's remarks transparently false, and underscores that this denounciation is one of simple political expediency. Something which in itself is damaging to someone who throughout his candidacy has attempted to project himself as a practicioner of the 'new politics' - a politics free of cynicism and deceit.
HUH?
You know....all the things Obama is now distancing himself from.
huh?
^^^^ this is pretty much what I have been saying, much as I am loathe to cosine a dolo poast. ^^^^
The irony is, for being so concerned with the plight of Black people, he just sabotaged the best chance we've ever had for a Black president.
What's the problem again?
Obama in Indianapolis this week:
BEFORE
AFTER
I AM SAYING IT LOOKS LIKE HE'S GETTIN EM GASSED UP
that's a pretty awkward looking press conference spot though. I assume they took pains to make sure some Indiana redneck didn't run over him with a pickup truck on the way to the pump.
But to play devils advocate, and give Obama the benefit of the doubt, before, it was out of context clips edited for shock value. That doesnt negate all of his controversial statements, but it does negate "goddamn america", for me at least.
Now that dude is clearly not giving Obama the same consideration that Obama gave him in his speech, Obama has no reason left not to cut him off. Again, I think thats a highly political decision about a personal relationship/betrayal, and thats why it's being couched as being about these new statements. Dude torpedoed the whole rationale that the clips were out of context, and did the same to the underlying basis of Obama's campaign. He basically stood up and said "yes, thats what I believe, Obama's just saying what he has to to win."
I still think this is a largely personal non-issue, pushed by a media that is as sick of Hillary as the rest of us. The issue is sexy and scary, and tailor made for TV....
As today's Journal - front page, not Op-Ed - noted, the man's hand was forced. He made the only decision he could make after being attacked by an man whose heights of ego had previously NOT been forseen. If Barack Obama had shown himself to agree with specific statements Wright made, and then changed his tune about those specific statements, then he could be accused of "deceit."
We've all been extremely close to folks whose opinions differ greatly from ours. I love my brother, and I'd ask him to be the Best Man at my wedding (and indeed, I am his Best Man in less than three months). He is the closest male figure present in my life. However, I cannot ascribe to his opions on cosmological and theological issues. Hell, most of our encounters end up in serious arguments whereupon, on occastion, he lets me know in no uncertain terms that I'm literally going to Hell if I don't ascribe to his acute Judeo-Christian viewpoint. This last happened only a few months ago. But our relationship is much more complex than mere hot-button issues. It's even bigger than our Ultimate tenets. We love each other, and that's that. I don't need to justify my feelings about my brother. I don't need to justify my feelings about anyone I do not do business with. Personal relationships are always more complex than the media can relay.
And to accurately define the term - YOU are the cynic in this matter. I don't even think that Michelle Malkin can do much more than insinuate that Obama and his pastor share the same views (and that, in turn, Barack Obama will turn around, once in the White House, and "destroy America" or some such malarkey). That a man has a friend whom he trusts but severely disagrees with is hardly news. The man even gave Wright an out. Had Wright stopped his show after the soft-ball but still informative Moyers piece, I'd have been fine with that.
now back to the war, the economy, our education system, etc...