How many years do dudes have to go through realizing that they only like about .0002% of all rap that comes out before they stop considering themselves as "rap fans"?
Give me a break. Most legitimate rock fans don't like .0002% of all rock that comes out either.
I see this more as if someone ONLY listened to like 80s new wave or new emo goth mall punk (or anything specific and easily categorized) and claimed they were a 'rock fan' first and foremost, decrying any other sound or style of rock music as bullshit and unworthy of merit.
it's shitty ass made for tv and radio pop-tastic rap and rock that I could care less about
Save your breath noz, the origins behind this music are ALWAYS willfully ignored here...
What does that even mean?
R.I.F.
Your assumptions are false. I am sure this has been explained to the Dizzys and Chads of Soulstrut on many occassions, but I'll run it down again. Every single one of the records you guys are hating on were local, independent records that mtv, major labels and white people had to play catch up with. There are hundreds of records like these that do not cross over every year. Now maybe this doesn't validate their existance, but it sort of throws the "manufactured pop music" thesis out the window. They are distinct reflections of and for their community. And in a lot of ways, these are the last records of that nature being produced in this country. In any genre.
Who do you expect to tell you when you are being racially insensitive?
Sigh... I guess you, Shied. I'm sure my non-white peers thank you in advance for taking that burden off their back.
That's another for expecting non-white people to pay you the honor of informing you when you're acting out of line.
It's not so much that I expect non-white people to keep me posted as to how racially sensitive I am. It's more about how comical it is to see so many white people on this board accusing other white people of being racist no matter how slight - or in this case, completely baseless - the provocation.
In any case HarveyC - I'd love it if you would report to the "post a pic of you happy as fuck" thread with a nice photo of yourself having fun. Despite our differences of opinion, I'm sure you're a nice guy and I'd hate to think you're this salty off the internets.
Marco - I'll tell you what someone should have told me earlier in the Dylan-hate thread: It's just not worth it, man.
So when are you coming to Chicago next?
Some folks here need to read this in full detail and apply it to their real-life conversations before trying Rational Thought online.
Marco - I'll tell you what someone should have told me earlier in the Dylan-hate thread: It's just not worth it, man.
No kidding. I don't even really care about this topic to tell the truth, yet I've posted more on this thread than on any other in at least a year. Maybe I should see that analyst after all.
So when are you coming to Chicago next?
Next year for ModChicago most likely - always good to see you man!
it's shitty ass made for tv and radio pop-tastic rap and rock that I could care less about
Save your breath noz, the origins behind this music are ALWAYS willfully ignored here...
What does that even mean?
R.I.F.
Your assumptions are false. I am sure this has been explained to the Dizzys and Chads of Soulstrut on many occassions, but I'll run it down again. Every single one of the records you guys are hating on were local, independent records that mtv, major labels and white people had to play catch up with. There are hundreds of records like these that do not cross over every year. Now maybe this doesn't validate their existance, but it sort of throws the "manufactured pop music" thesis out the window. They are distinct reflections of and for their community. And in a lot of ways, these are the last records of that nature being produced in this country. In any genre.
Contrived and romantic.
What community is that? The community of people who actually appreciate that music, which certainly does not include all black people? Honestly, is the audience for that music every person living in the larger community you're saying it's reflecting?
it's shitty ass made for tv and radio pop-tastic rap and rock that I could care less about
Save your breath noz, the origins behind this music are ALWAYS willfully ignored here...
What does that even mean?
R.I.F.
Your assumptions are false. I am sure this has been explained to the Dizzys and Chads of Soulstrut on many occassions, but I'll run it down again. Every single one of the records you guys are hating on were local, independent records that mtv, major labels and white people had to play catch up with. There are hundreds of records like these that do not cross over every year. Now maybe this doesn't validate their existance, but it sort of throws the "manufactured pop music" thesis out the window. They are distinct reflections of and for their community. And in a lot of ways, these are the last records of that nature being produced in this country. In any genre.
Contrived and romantic.
What community is that? The community of people who actually appreciate that music, which certainly does not include all black people? Honestly, is the audience for that music every person living in the larger community you're saying it's reflecting?
You're still missing the point that the origins of the music are in opposition to the claim in the initial quote.
This part: "it's shitty ass made for tv and radio pop-tastic rap"
The quote from noz was put forth to reiterate that the songs in question were not manufactured pop music. There was no claim made that the community they were created for includes all black people.
Austin is brown, then white, then black, then others.
Next time ask a person...not a US government agency.
you said NOWHERE in Texas is predominately white and then flashed the dumb ass "disconnected" graemlin...and Austin is predominately white...I would be willing to bet the only places in Texas that arent predominately white are in the valley...but I have only been there a few dozen times, I suppose I havent experienced the "real, hard as fuck" brown experience, like you..you probably went to a jaimaca or some shit once. Yes ,I am making stupid brash judgemnets about what I think you have experienced, just like you do to everyone on this board. Get a grip and stop playing the "real, hard as fuck" Barney Fife in our record nerd Mayberry...
It's funny - I'm teaching Adorno's "On Popular Music" in class tomorrow and this is an essay, written in 1941, that basically accuses all pop music of dumbing down "the masses" through distraction and inattention, resulting in standardized songs that are basically all the same (in affect, if not form) and are so bereft of any actual "art" that they "listen for the audience" so that listeners don't need to be troubled by having to exert any actual effort.
Some 65+ years later and it's the same rhetoric, same attitudes.
That's not to say that there isn't a grain of truth or wisdom in the argument - the recording industry does bend towards standardization, it's not altruistic and maybe the larger goal is the taming of the working class through circus and bread...but...
...much of this attitude still discounts the role that music plays in the everyday lives of the people who enjoy it. And just because they enjoy music that you don't doesn't make the music retarded or the listeners either.
I mean, is "Ay Bay Bay" the fucking pinnacle of musical production? Fuck no. But this idea that it's stupifying listeners or only appreciated by the mentally deficient is some patronizing bullshit. Just accept that "you're not into it" and leave it that. None of what I'm saying doesn't mean one can't make a very well reasoned and rational argument for why "Ay Bay Bay" might be the end of Western civilization but accept that other people might find it, I dunno, an enjoyable pop song that will have its moment then pass quickly so that, a year from now, "Ay Bay Bay" will seem as relevant to our lives as "Safety Dance" was 20+ years ago.
It's funny - I'm teaching Adorno's "On Popular Music" in class tomorrow and this is an essay, written in 1941, that basically accuses all pop music of dumbing down "the masses" through distraction and inattention, resulting in standardized songs that are basically all the same (in affect, if not form) and are so bereft of any actual "art" that they "listen for the audience" so that listeners don't need to be troubled by having to exert any actual effort.
Some 65+ years later and it's the same rhetoric, same attitudes.
That's not to say that there isn't a grain of truth or wisdom in the argument - the recording industry does bend towards standardization, it's not altruistic and maybe the larger goal is the taming of the working class through circus and bread...but...
...much of this attitude still discounts the role that music plays in the everyday lives of the people who enjoy it. And just because they enjoy music that you don't doesn't make the music retarded or the listeners either.
I mean, is "Ay Bay Bay" the fucking pinnacle of musical production? Fuck no. But this idea that it's stupifying listeners or only appreciated by the mentally deficient is some patronizing bullshit. Just accept that "you're not into it" and leave it that. None of what I'm saying doesn't mean one can't make a very well reasoned and rational argument for why "Ay Bay Bay" might be the end of Western civilization but accept that other people might find it, I dunno, an enjoyable pop song that will have its moment then pass quickly so that, a year from now, "Ay Bay Bay" will seem as relevant to our lives as "Safety Dance" was 20+ years ago.
Ivory tower intellectual posing as peoples' populist. Next.
It's funny - I'm teaching Adorno's "On Popular Music" in class tomorrow and this is an essay, written in 1941, that basically accuses all pop music of dumbing down "the masses" through distraction and inattention, resulting in standardized songs that are basically all the same (in affect, if not form) and are so bereft of any actual "art" that they "listen for the audience" so that listeners don't need to be troubled by having to exert any actual effort.
Some 65+ years later and it's the same rhetoric, same attitudes.
That's not to say that there isn't a grain of truth or wisdom in the argument - the recording industry does bend towards standardization, it's not altruistic and maybe the larger goal is the taming of the working class through circus and bread...but...
...much of this attitude still discounts the role that music plays in the everyday lives of the people who enjoy it. And just because they enjoy music that you don't doesn't make the music retarded or the listeners either.
I mean, is "Ay Bay Bay" the fucking pinnacle of musical production? Fuck no. But this idea that it's stupifying listeners or only appreciated by the mentally deficient is some patronizing bullshit. Just accept that "you're not into it" and leave it that. None of what I'm saying doesn't mean one can't make a very well reasoned and rational argument for why "Ay Bay Bay" might be the end of Western civilization but accept that other people might find it, I dunno, an enjoyable pop song that will have its moment then pass quickly so that, a year from now, "Ay Bay Bay" will seem as relevant to our lives as "Safety Dance" was 20+ years ago.
Ivory tower intellectual posing as peoples' populist. Next.
Ironically, I was probably LESS a populist before I became an ivory tower intellectual (not that where I teach actually has any ivory towers. No one's ever accused the CSU system of being very high-faluten).
My point is simply that people have been recycling this tired chestnut since the birth of popular music. Seriously, if the pop music industry was as skillful in getting people to sign off on "manufactured" dreck as folks assume, why would there ever be any form of change in pop music at all? We should still be buying sheet music and dancing to Paul Whiteman.
Noz's point is dead on: most "hits" didn't begin life with the assumption that they'd actually blow up (the sincere hope maybe). Look at how many once-huge stars flame the fuck out (helllloooo Britney). If the pop machine can just manufacture a hit with the snap of Clive Davis' skeletal fingers, why would there ever be such a thing as a "flop"?
Let "Ay Bay Bay" live! (I can't cosign on Will.I.Am's nonsense though. Even my populism has its limis).
it's shitty ass made for tv and radio pop-tastic rap and rock that I could care less about
Save your breath noz, the origins behind this music are ALWAYS willfully ignored here...
What does that even mean?
R.I.F.
Your assumptions are false. I am sure this has been explained to the Dizzys and Chads of Soulstrut on many occassions, but I'll run it down again. Every single one of the records you guys are hating on were local, independent records that mtv, major labels and white people had to play catch up with. There are hundreds of records like these that do not cross over every year. Now maybe this doesn't validate their existance, but it sort of throws the "manufactured pop music" thesis out the window. They are distinct reflections of and for their community. And in a lot of ways, these are the last records of that nature being produced in this country. In any genre.
Contrived and romantic.
What community is that? The community of people who actually appreciate that music, which certainly does not include all black people? Honestly, is the audience for that music every person living in the larger community you're saying it's reflecting?
You're still missing the point that the origins of the music are in opposition to the claim in the initial quote.
This part: "it's shitty ass made for tv and radio pop-tastic rap"
The quote from noz was put forth to reiterate that the songs in question were not manufactured pop music. There was no claim made that the community they were created for includes all black people.
I know what you're saying. Perhaps I should have asked why the origins even matter...
I am probably the only person here who is interested in checking out the Hurricane Chris album. He has a surprisingly hot verse on the remix of Ay Bay Bay.
Also, I heard a lot of these songs y'all are talking about on mixtapes before I even knew people had heard them (probably before they were on mtv/bet, I don't watch much), so I think a lot of you are wrong in assuming these songs were created especially for music video television. Make your own opinion on the songs, that's fine, it's not gonna ruin my day or anything, but just realize how ridiculous some of you seem making these crazy judgments on people who like (or don't like) Ay Bay Bay or whatever. It's just a song, nothing to get so bent out of shape over. It will be gone from the airwaves soon enough and you will have some new shit to complain about.
I am probably the only person here who is interested in checking out the Hurricane Chris album. He has a surprisingly hot verse on the remix of Ay Bay Bay.
Also, I heard a lot of these songs y'all are talking about on mixtapes before I even knew people had heard them (probably before they were on mtv/bet, I don't watch much), so I think a lot of you are wrong in assuming these songs were created especially for music video television. Make your own opinion on the songs, that's fine, it's not gonna ruin my day or anything, but just realize how ridiculous some of you seem making these crazy judgments on people who like (or don't like) Ay Bay Bay or whatever. It's just a song, nothing to get so bent out of shape over. It will be gone from the airwaves soon enough and you will have some new shit to complain about.
You know something - I agree with you to a certain point about not getting bent out of shape about a song....but when a song like this does well - music industry types look for the next piece of trash just like it. this does not help in music progression....that's why shit's been so stagnant and we've been hearing awful shit like this for the past few years. I so don't want to make a comment about your being amped to check out the Hurricane Chris album....but seriously....you're amped to check out the Hurricane Chris album? At least say you're not going to buy it...........
I know what you're saying. Perhaps I should have asked why the origins even matter...
I don't know Bobo, your side brought up that point.
I think both sides are playing that card, though. Some are trying to play stuff off because it's throwaway trash; some are trying to legitimize it because it comes from a particular time and place. I guess I don't usually factor those in when making a determination.
I am probably the only person here who is interested in checking out the Hurricane Chris album. He has a surprisingly hot verse on the remix of Ay Bay Bay.
Also, I heard a lot of these songs y'all are talking about on mixtapes before I even knew people had heard them (probably before they were on mtv/bet, I don't watch much), so I think a lot of you are wrong in assuming these songs were created especially for music video television. Make your own opinion on the songs, that's fine, it's not gonna ruin my day or anything, but just realize how ridiculous some of you seem making these crazy judgments on people who like (or don't like) Ay Bay Bay or whatever. It's just a song, nothing to get so bent out of shape over. It will be gone from the airwaves soon enough and you will have some new shit to complain about.
You know something - I agree with you to a certain point about not getting bent out of shape about a song....but when a song like this does well - music industry types look for the next piece of trash just like it. this does not help in music progression.[/b]...that's why shit's been so stagnant and we've been hearing awful shit like this for the past few years. I so don't want to make a comment about your being amped to check out the Hurricane Chris album....but seriously....you're amped to check out the Hurricane Chris album? At least say you're not going to buy it...........
oh, come on. there is more music available to you now than there has ever been in the past and its easier for you to get. surely one as iconoclastic and cutting edge as the one Woimsah is not relying on radio or MTV to provide him with music. i mean, from a guy who was championing mono and esthero as examples of the best female recording artists of the last 20 years, your disdain for "awful shit like this" is truly mind-boggling. Music will progress (whatever that means) regardless of what does or does not get played in any given media outlet.
Now I'll just have to rethink what the worst song of the year is. Are people still making the country musics? Luckily I'm not exposed to it at all where I live.
Comments
I see this more as if someone ONLY listened to like 80s new wave or new emo goth mall punk (or anything specific and easily categorized) and claimed they were a 'rock fan' first and foremost, decrying any other sound or style of rock music as bullshit and unworthy of merit.
That Soulja Boy song isn't even worth the time discussing.
Racist and disconnected. Next.
Save your breath noz, the origins behind this music are ALWAYS willfully ignored here...
I'd just like to note that not all of us ignore the origins of the regional stuff that blows up nationwide.
What some of us question is the quality of that which blows uppeth.
What does that even mean?
R.I.F.
Marco - I'll tell you what someone should have told me earlier in the Dylan-hate thread: It's just not worth it, man.
So when are you coming to Chicago next?
Some folks here need to read this in full detail and apply it to their real-life conversations before trying Rational Thought online.
Seriously.
(the first time I've ever used that graem)
No kidding. I don't even really care about this topic to tell the truth, yet I've posted more on this thread than on any other in at least a year. Maybe I should see that analyst after all.
Next year for ModChicago most likely - always good to see you man!
Contrived and romantic.
What community is that? The community of people who actually appreciate that music, which certainly does not include all black people? Honestly, is the audience for that music every person living in the larger community you're saying it's reflecting?
You're still missing the point that the origins of the music are in opposition to the claim in the initial quote.
This part: "it's shitty ass made for tv and radio pop-tastic rap"
The quote from noz was put forth to reiterate that the songs in question were not manufactured pop music. There was no claim made that the community they were created for includes all black people.
you said NOWHERE in Texas is predominately white and then flashed the dumb ass "disconnected" graemlin...and Austin is predominately white...I would be willing to bet the only places in Texas that arent predominately white are in the valley...but I have only been there a few dozen times, I suppose I havent experienced the "real, hard as fuck" brown experience, like you..you probably went to a jaimaca or some shit once. Yes ,I am making stupid brash judgemnets about what I think you have experienced, just like you do to everyone on this board. Get a grip and stop playing the "real, hard as fuck" Barney Fife in our record nerd Mayberry...
Some 65+ years later and it's the same rhetoric, same attitudes.
That's not to say that there isn't a grain of truth or wisdom in the argument - the recording industry does bend towards standardization, it's not altruistic and maybe the larger goal is the taming of the working class through circus and bread...but...
...much of this attitude still discounts the role that music plays in the everyday lives of the people who enjoy it. And just because they enjoy music that you don't doesn't make the music retarded or the listeners either.
I mean, is "Ay Bay Bay" the fucking pinnacle of musical production? Fuck no. But this idea that it's stupifying listeners or only appreciated by the mentally deficient is some patronizing bullshit. Just accept that "you're not into it" and leave it that. None of what I'm saying doesn't mean one can't make a very well reasoned and rational argument for why "Ay Bay Bay" might be the end of Western civilization but accept that other people might find it, I dunno, an enjoyable pop song that will have its moment then pass quickly so that, a year from now, "Ay Bay Bay" will seem as relevant to our lives as "Safety Dance" was 20+ years ago.
Ivory tower intellectual posing as peoples' populist. Next.
Ironically, I was probably LESS a populist before I became an ivory tower intellectual (not that where I teach actually has any ivory towers. No one's ever accused the CSU system of being very high-faluten).
My point is simply that people have been recycling this tired chestnut since the birth of popular music. Seriously, if the pop music industry was as skillful in getting people to sign off on "manufactured" dreck as folks assume, why would there ever be any form of change in pop music at all? We should still be buying sheet music and dancing to Paul Whiteman.
Noz's point is dead on: most "hits" didn't begin life with the assumption that they'd actually blow up (the sincere hope maybe). Look at how many once-huge stars flame the fuck out (helllloooo Britney). If the pop machine can just manufacture a hit with the snap of Clive Davis' skeletal fingers, why would there ever be such a thing as a "flop"?
Let "Ay Bay Bay" live! (I can't cosign on Will.I.Am's nonsense though. Even my populism has its limis).
I know what you're saying. Perhaps I should have asked why the origins even matter...
It is evidently of supreme importance to those who despise these songs (based on this thread).
I am probably the only person here who is interested in checking out the Hurricane Chris album. He has a surprisingly hot verse on the remix of Ay Bay Bay.
Also, I heard a lot of these songs y'all are talking about on mixtapes before I even knew people had heard them (probably before they were on mtv/bet, I don't watch much), so I think a lot of you are wrong in assuming these songs were created especially for music video television. Make your own opinion on the songs, that's fine, it's not gonna ruin my day or anything, but just realize how ridiculous some of you seem making these crazy judgments on people who like (or don't like) Ay Bay Bay or whatever. It's just a song, nothing to get so bent out of shape over. It will be gone from the airwaves soon enough and you will have some new shit to complain about.
I don't know Bobo, your side brought up that point.
You know something - I agree with you to a certain point about not getting bent out of shape about a song....but when a song like this does well - music industry types look for the next piece of trash just like it. this does not help in music progression....that's why shit's been so stagnant and we've been hearing awful shit like this for the past few years. I so don't want to make a comment about your being amped to check out the Hurricane Chris album....but seriously....you're amped to check out the Hurricane Chris album? At least say you're not going to buy it...........
"I hate what the kids listen to! I prefer what the kids used to listen to."
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
i fucking love this song and i am dead serious.
"a bay bay" is my ringtone, but only because that song is so retarded that its awesome.
whats this umbrella song?
I think both sides are playing that card, though. Some are trying to play stuff off because it's throwaway trash; some are trying to legitimize it because it comes from a particular time and place. I guess I don't usually factor those in when making a determination.
oh, come on. there is more music available to you now than there has ever been in the past and its easier for you to get. surely one as iconoclastic and cutting edge as the one Woimsah is not relying on radio or MTV to provide him with music. i mean, from a guy who was championing mono and esthero as examples of the best female recording artists of the last 20 years, your disdain for "awful shit like this" is truly mind-boggling. Music will progress (whatever that means) regardless of what does or does not get played in any given media outlet.
Now I'll just have to rethink what the worst song of the year is. Are people still making the country musics? Luckily I'm not exposed to it at all where I live.