Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121Yay....you win.....you have the pro-death penalty, pro Missile Shield, pro border security, just left of center candidate that's getting my vote.b,121b,121Break out the champagne. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121point made. i ask you to come up with a single issue that makes obama appeal to republicans, and the best you can do, is offer up issues, that at best, are split among democrats. bill and hillary have identical views on all of the above. why didn't you vote for bill?b,121b,121i'm happy that obama gives the impression that he transcends party lines, but what is the change that you are so looking forward to? It seems like symbolism rather than policy. Btw, the issues that he is forced to talk about (taxes, defense) are not the issues that made him become a politician. This is a guy who got into politics because of his liberal social views, not because he favors the death penalty in limited circumstances or supports a well funded military.b,121b,121if you wanna come out of the closet and admit your a democrat, go ahead, but please stop trying to classify obama as some type of independent, which he certainly is not.
font class="post"1b,121b,121"And in a way, he was following the doctrine that bears his name. He didn't want to engage in open warfare with his enemies, until it was clear that he was positioned for a clear and decisive victory. And what could be more low risk than attaching yourself to a Democratic candidate cruising to victory?"b,121b,121Oh snap!
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 why didn't you vote for bill?b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Why is KVH holding onto the idea that voting is always a rational act? b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121i'm just pointing out that roc is full of shit...some might say irrational.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 why didn't you vote for bill?b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Why is KVH holding onto the idea that voting is always a rational act? b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121i'm just pointing out that roc is full of shit...some might say irrational. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121You have proven over and over again to be anything but rational....It's the consensus here in case you don't comprehend what you read.b,121b,121I stated my support for Obama long before you and now you question my logic and sincerity, going as far as saying "You(the narcissistic YOU) don't need my vote."b,121b,121Kucinich......Lieberman......Obama......Pelosi......Murtha.......Taylor....Kennedyb,121b,121All exactly the same because they are all Democrats.b,121b,121GTFOOHWTBSb,121b,121b,121As far as your "one issue" goes I've stated repeatedly I support Obama's tax plan 100%......while not the only reason I will cast my vote, certainly a big one. b,121b,121If my candidate loses in Nov. I'm going to blame assholes like you who project an attitude that anyone who doesn't call themselves a Democrat doesn't deserve to vote for a Democrat.b,121b,121You really have a lot of growing up to do.....in age and maturity.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121oh lord.b,121b,121With all due respect Rock; you're pretty much a republican.b,121b,121And Is stereotype one of the new politcal defenses righties are now using? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I can see where you're coming from and he does sometimes lean right (at least according to this site's standards img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" 21 ), but Rock is more of a centrist. He has both conservative and liberal views. I wouldn't call him a republican or democrat and neither would he. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I concur. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121He is not a centrist. At least he wasn't in the past. b,121b,121He has forcefully argued that torture is good. Even arguing that your local police should employee torture to catch criminals. b,121b,121He has argued forcefully that all Muslims want to kill Americans/Christians.b,121b,121And on and on.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121oh lord.b,121b,121With all due respect Rock; you're pretty much a republican.b,121b,121And Is stereotype one of the new politcal defenses righties are now using? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I can see where you're coming from and he does sometimes lean right (at least according to this site's standards img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" 21 ), but Rock is more of a centrist. He has both conservative and liberal views. I wouldn't call him a republican or democrat and neither would he. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I concur. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121He is not a centrist. At least he wasn't in the past. b,121b,121He has forcefully argued that torture is good. Even arguing that your local police should employee torture to catch criminals. b,121b,121He has argued forcefully that all Muslims want to kill Americans/Christians.b,121b,121And on and on. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have argued that torture can be a useful wartime tool......true.b,121b,121I have never suggested that police should torture citizens.b,121b,121I do support the death penalty.b,121b,121I have suggested that defined groups of Muslims do indeed want to kill people who do not agree with their belief systems, including ALL Americans and Christians and that I wish more mainstrem Muslim leaders would speak out about how it is wrong.b,121b,121I have opinions, they are MY opinions and if by sharing them you see fit to put a "label" on me so be it, I really don't care.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121oh lord.b,121b,121With all due respect Rock; you're pretty much a republican.b,121b,121And Is stereotype one of the new politcal defenses righties are now using? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I can see where you're coming from and he does sometimes lean right (at least according to this site's standards img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" 21 ), but Rock is more of a centrist. He has both conservative and liberal views. I wouldn't call him a republican or democrat and neither would he. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I concur. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121He is not a centrist. At least he wasn't in the past. b,121b,121He has forcefully argued that torture is good. Even arguing that your local police should employee torture to catch criminals. b,121b,121He has argued forcefully that all Muslims want to kill Americans/Christians.b,121b,121And on and on. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have argued that torture can be a useful wartime tool......true.b,121b,121I have never suggested that police should torture citizens.b,121b,121I do support the death penalty.b,121b,121I have suggested that defined groups of Muslims do indeed want to kill people who do not agree with their belief systems, including ALL Americans and Christians and that I wish more mainstrem Muslim leaders would speak out about how it is wrong.b,121b,121I have opinions, they are MY opinions and if by sharing them you see fit to put a "label" on me so be it, I really don't care. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121The people who put a label on you are the ones who say you were a centrist. b,121b,121I was taking that label off. b,121b,121You should thank me for taking labels off you.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121oh lord.b,121b,121With all due respect Rock; you're pretty much a republican.b,121b,121And Is stereotype one of the new politcal defenses righties are now using? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I can see where you're coming from and he does sometimes lean right (at least according to this site's standards img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" 21 ), but Rock is more of a centrist. He has both conservative and liberal views. I wouldn't call him a republican or democrat and neither would he. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I concur. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121He is not a centrist. At least he wasn't in the past. b,121b,121He has forcefully argued that torture is good. Even arguing that your local police should employee torture to catch criminals. b,121b,121He has argued forcefully that all Muslims want to kill Americans/Christians.b,121b,121And on and on. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have argued that torture can be a useful wartime tool......true.b,121b,121I have never suggested that police should torture citizens.b,121b,121I do support the death penalty.b,121b,121I have suggested that defined groups of Muslims do indeed want to kill people who do not agree with their belief systems, including ALL Americans and Christians and that I wish more mainstrem Muslim leaders would speak out about how it is wrong.b,121b,121I have opinions, they are MY opinions and if by sharing them you see fit to put a "label" on me so be it, I really don't care. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121The people who put a label on you are the ones who say you were a centrist. b,121b,121I was taking that label off. b,121b,121You should thank me for taking labels off you. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Like I said....I really don't care.b,121b,121If by Centrist they mean that I agree with some issues with the left and some issues with the right....it's probably a correct label.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121You have proven over and over again to be anything but rational....It's the consensus here in case you don't comprehend what you read.b,121b,121I stated my support for Obama long before you and now you question my logic and sincerity, going as far as saying "You(the narcissistic YOU) don't need my vote."b,121b,121Kucinich......Lieberman......Obama......Pelosi......Murtha.......Taylor....Kennedyb,121b,121All exactly the same because they are all Democrats.b,121b,121GTFOOHWTBSb,121b,121b,121As far as your "one issue" goes I've stated repeatedly I support Obama's tax plan 100%......while not the only reason I will cast my vote, certainly a big one. b,121b,121If my candidate loses in Nov. I'm going to blame assholes like you who project an attitude that anyone who doesn't call themselves a Democrat doesn't deserve to vote for a Democrat.b,121b,121You really have a lot of growing up to do.....in age and maturity. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121b,121okayy, what have you done to get obama elected besides pat yourself on the back for voting for a guy based on your gut? your so incredibly ignorant about what CHANGE means if your #1 issue is taxes...that effect you! that's not what this campaign is about and Obama was a presidential candidate long before he unveiled a tax cut for 95% of the country, which by the way, might not even be feasible come January.b,121b,121also, while all the democrats you mentioned are, in fact, different people, how about you take a look at their voting records! despite the fact that kucinech introduced legislation to impeach bush, and claims to have seen ufos, his voting record, as a whole is probably 90% + the same as Obama's. Even Joe Lieberman, who won as an independent, votes with democrats on pretty much every issue except for defense.b,121b,121Clearly, unless you want to acknowledge that you are now a democrat, your vote is more about the symbolic Obama, than the candidate Obama, who as president, will be implementing democratic policies, not giving stump speeches.b,121b,121b,121b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/walkawaysonfinal.gif" alt="" 21
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121The people who put a label on you are the ones who say you were a centrist. b,121b,121I was taking that label off. b,121b,121You should thank me for taking labels off you. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Like I said....I really don't care.b,121b,121If by Centrist they mean that I agree with some issues with the left and some issues with the right....it's probably a correct label. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrist" target="_blank"1http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrist
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I can't figure out what KVH's point is. Is he demanding that we all pick partisan labels? This some kind of two party tyranny? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121That's been his position for a good while now. He also views Independent status as a party affiliation, rather than the complete absence of party affiliation.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121oh lord.b,121b,121With all due respect Rock; you're pretty much a republican.b,121b,121And Is stereotype one of the new politcal defenses righties are now using? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I can see where you're coming from and he does sometimes lean right (at least according to this site's standards img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" 21 ), but Rock is more of a centrist. He has both conservative and liberal views. I wouldn't call him a republican or democrat and neither would he. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I concur. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121He is not a centrist. At least he wasn't in the past. b,121b,121He has forcefully argued that torture is good. Even arguing that your local police should employee torture to catch criminals. b,121b,121He has argued forcefully that all Muslims want to kill Americans/Christians.b,121b,121And on and on. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I have argued that torture can be a useful wartime tool......true.b,121b,121I have never suggested that police should torture citizens.b,121b,121I do support the death penalty.b,121b,121I have suggested that defined groups of Muslims do indeed want to kill people who do not agree with their belief systems, including ALL Americans and Christians and that I wish more mainstrem Muslim leaders would speak out about how it is wrong.b,121b,121I have opinions, they are MY opinions and if by sharing them you see fit to put a "label" on me so be it, I really don't care. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121The people who put a label on you are the ones who say you were a centrist. b,121b,121I was taking that label off. b,121b,121You should thank me for taking labels off you. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Like I said....I really don't care.b,121b,121If by Centrist they mean that I agree with some issues with the left and some issues with the right....it's probably a correct label. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121That could be what they mean. I wouldn't argue with that. b,121b,121I think of a centrist as someone who has moderate views that are in the middle of the left and right.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I can't figure out what KVH's point is. Is he demanding that we all pick partisan labels? This some kind of two party tyranny? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121That's been his position for a good while now. He also views Independent status as a party affiliation, rather than the complete absence of party affiliation. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121the only time I can think of a third party getting TV time and news coverage was in 1980 ( I was only 9, but I remember it vividly because our social studies teacher doing all sorts of election stuff in class) was Anderson, and wasnt his party called the "Independent Party"? I might be mistaken, I was only 9 after all...
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I can't figure out what KVH's point is. Is he demanding that we all pick partisan labels? This some kind of two party tyranny? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121That's been his position for a good while now. He also views Independent status as a party affiliation, rather than the complete absence of party affiliation. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121no, and you are confusing or conflating independent voters with independent candidates. if a politician runs as an independent, he/she would in fact, be running under a different party affiliation - even if the significance is just in title. b,121b,121lets see where partisan politics gets us once we have obama and 60 seats in the senate, i guarantee its a much brighter 4 years.b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happyday.gif" alt="" 21
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I can't figure out what KVH's point is. Is he demanding that we all pick partisan labels? This some kind of two party tyranny? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121That's been his position for a good while now. He also views Independent status as a party affiliation, rather than the complete absence of party affiliation. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121the only time I can think of a third party getting TV time and news coverage was in 1980 ( I was only 9, but I remember it vividly because our social studies teacher doing all sorts of election stuff in class) was Anderson, and wasnt his party called the "Independent Party"? I might be mistaken, I was only 9 after all... b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Ross Perot received 20% of the popular vote in '92. b,121b,121Of course, then they wouldn't even let him participate in the debates in '96.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I can't figure out what KVH's point is. Is he demanding that we all pick partisan labels? This some kind of two party tyranny? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121That's been his position for a good while now. He also views Independent status as a party affiliation, rather than the complete absence of party affiliation. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121the only time I can think of a third party getting TV time and news coverage was in 1980 ( I was only 9, but I remember it vividly because our social studies teacher doing all sorts of election stuff in class) was Anderson, and wasnt his party called the "Independent Party"? I might be mistaken, I was only 9 after all... b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Ross Perot received 20% of the popular vote in '92. b,121b,121Of course, then they wouldn't even let him participate in the debates in '96. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121oh yeah, how could I forget that crazy little fucker? Especially being in Texas in 92...
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I can't figure out what KVH's point is. Is he demanding that we all pick partisan labels? This some kind of two party tyranny? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121That's been his position for a good while now. He also views Independent status as a party affiliation, rather than the complete absence of party affiliation. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121the only time I can think of a third party getting TV time and news coverage was in 1980 ( I was only 9, but I remember it vividly because our social studies teacher doing all sorts of election stuff in class) was Anderson, and wasnt his party called the "Independent Party"? I might be mistaken, I was only 9 after all... b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Ross Perot was invited to the presidential debates in both '92+96. Nader got lots of press in 2000. '76 was something like Barry Commoner. I seem to remember Wallace running as a 3rd party candidate '68 or '72.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121Ross Perot was invited to the presidential debates in both '92+96. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Not in '96, he wasn't.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I can't figure out what KVH's point is. Is he demanding that we all pick partisan labels? This some kind of two party tyranny? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121That's been his position for a good while now. He also views Independent status as a party affiliation, rather than the complete absence of party affiliation. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121no, and you are confusing or conflating independent voters with independent candidates. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121No, I thought you were. I'm well aware of the distinction between the two, being a registered Independent and all.b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" 21
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Yes, Obama supporters should be beaming with pride that butchers such as Colin Powell are now endorsing his campaign. If only Pol Pot and Idi Amin were still around... b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121too subtle - see if you can work in a Hitler reference next timeb,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1074.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121But Hitler was white...not as impressive as a non-white butcher. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Wow, I missed a milestone earlier in this thread, we actually hit a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law" target="_blank"1Goodwin's Law... b,121b,121b,121b1Go Team Soul Strut!/b1 b,121b,121img src="http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/Saracenus/Team Venture/go_team_venture.jpg"1
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Yes, Obama supporters should be beaming with pride that butchers such as Colin Powell are now endorsing his campaign. If only Pol Pot and Idi Amin were still around... b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121too subtle - see if you can work in a Hitler reference next timeb,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1074.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121But Hitler was white...not as impressive as a non-white butcher. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Wow, I missed a milestone earlier in this thread, we actually hit a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law" target="_blank"1Goodwin's Law... b,121b,121b,121b1Go Team Soul Strut!/b1 b,121b,121img src="http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn252/Saracenus/Team Venture/go_team_venture.jpg"1 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Buy some records first, then talk about being on Team Soulstrut.
font class="post"1b,121b,121Interesting article, Vitamin. I think the issue with Bolton's endorsement for Powell is that he simply wasn't qualified, and Bolton's behavior seems to bear this out. What I also found interesting was that nearly all of your footnotes steer the reader back into the website, which doesn't scream factual to me.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
font class="post"1b,121b,121Buy some records first, then talk about being on Team Soulstrut.b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121But HC, I know I am not on Team Soul Strut and you missed the point of my pictorial sarcasm. But at least now I know that you are definitely a Hank. Which brings me to the next eponymous law, a href="http://www.murphywasanoptimist.com/murphysoptimist.murphysoptimist.4726092+callahans-principle.php" target="_blank"1Callahan's Principle.
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