Quote:/font1h,121b,121"But it is not Birth of a Nation, it is not Amos and Andy, it is not Jesse Helms and it is not George Wallace. "b,121 b,121b,121h,121
day, that article only proves vitamin's point about how many have that 6th sense 'i see racist people' thing going on. McWhorter basically concedes her analysis is visceral rather than rational with this passage:b,121b,121"So other than hitting the "community organizer" thing a bit too hard, Palin's demagoguery has no rationally decipherable racial code. ("Drill, baby, drill" has the testosterone of retributive aggression, but the implied scapegoat is the planet rather than a race.) Absent any obvious color semaphores, can rhetoric be racial? Or is the old Wallace code now so automatic that the racial pitch is audible to anyone with the ears to hear it?"b,121b,121Usually I would declare such an article a cynical attempt to delegitimise criticism of Obama and smear McCain and Palin, but McWhorter strikes me as just the type of post-modernist turd to sincerely think like this. b,121b,121btw, vit, what poster at firedoglake were you talkin bout?
Quote:/font1h,121b,121day, that article only proves vitamin's point about how many have that 6th sense 'i see racist people' thing going on. McWhorter basically concedes her analysis is visceral rather than rational with this passage:b,121b,121"So other than hitting the "community organizer" thing a bit too hard, Palin's demagoguery has no rationally decipherable racial code. ("Drill, baby, drill" has the testosterone of retributive aggression, but the implied scapegoat is the planet rather than a race.) Absent any obvious color semaphores, can rhetoric be racial? Or is the old Wallace code now so automatic that the racial pitch is audible to anyone with the ears to hear it?"b,121b,121Usually I would declare such an article a cynical attempt to delegitimise criticism of Obama and smear McCain and Palin, but McWhorter strikes me as just the type of post-modernist turd to sincerely think like this. b,121b,121btw, vit, what poster at firedoglake were you talkin bout? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121I can't believe I'm f*cking typing this, but I kind of agree with Dolo img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wtf.gif" alt="" 21b,121b,121The article was reaching, but it covered the general point Oliver made re. the implied racial tone of the campaign. Whether it's there or not can be argued ad infinitum.
Ultimately, I don't know what the real worth - politically speaking - there is to making I>too big a deal[/i] of implied racist rhetoric or not; I think lefties enjoy the sense of moral outrage (I'm speaking from experience) but I think it's also a potential distraction and more to the point: so the F*ck what? b,121b,121Racism isn't hard to find; you barely have to go looking for it. But to me, the kind of racism that concerns me isn't rhetorical; it's structural, it's institutional. And frankly, I'm not encouraged that either candidate will do much to address this. b,121b,121I'm not saying I don't care if racial politics are being played - I do - but I don't know if debating "is there or isn't there?" is fruitful in the big scheme of things. It's an intellectual argument; there's no material gains to be made in "winning" that argument. The only exception would be if McCain or Palin badly misstepped and crossed the line from subtle to explicit racism and that ends up either being something exploitable in terms of gaining (or losing) voters.
I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121So figuring out intent may not be possible but result is, at least, open to debate and that brings into play a whole different set of evaluations and criteria. Challenging a Black candidate on the grounds of "is he American enough?" is different from doing the same to a White candidate because throughout American history, since before America was "America," Black people have been, in some form or other, perpetual outsiders and foreigners, right? We are talking about a people who once weren't counted as 100% people, remember? People for whom our nation's laws didn't protect from Jim Crow until less than 50 years ago, yes? b,121b,121So no Black candidate - in 2008 - faces the same realities as a White candidate. Accusing the latter of being un-American simply doesn't carry the same historical associations of "other"-ness. It doesn't play on a well-established set of social biases around whether "they" will ever be one of "us". b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Now on this, I think you have a point that I had not considered. Ayers in particular, because he did violence against the state (which would be a basic definition of un-Americanness) is a way of calling into doubt at the very least Obama's love of country. That is also why, I think, so many Republicans seized on Michelle Obama's comments about being proud of her country for the first time in her lifetime. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I would classify Ayers' actions as more anti-Nixon and anti-war than anti-American, per se, with more than a healthy dollop of idealistic nihilism on top. Dissent, even it its worst forms, is not neccessarily anti-state. These are people that believed in a necessity of violent revolution in order to cleanse America of its sins. Additionally: Ayers was a smart-dumb collegian at the time that - and don't forget this - turned himself over in 10 years' time and threw himself upon the mercy of the same government he meant to disrupt. He was wiser then, and had the full intent of facing the music for his destructive actions. The country that he still has not left - and more to the point, has been softened by - has forgiven him and allowed him a second chance.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121But at this point, are we really talking about race or are we talking about politics? I don't doubt Obama's love of country. And please people don't twist what I am saying here. I am not questioning the man's patriotism. I read the entire investigation into Ayers as the process of political vetting. I am center-right, particularly on national security. So when I learn about Ayers, I am hearing Obama is a leftist, which is troubling because he is campaigning as a centrist. For me Ayers is a sign post indicating a dangerous neutralism in foreign affairs, but also a hard left conception of America itself, which relegates our country to the same moral standing as our enemies. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121A man cannot be reduced to his sum of his past acquaintances. Either way, I am fully convinced that Bill Ayers is not the same anarchist that he used to be (as his non-violent record since 1980 would attest), and I'm even more unconvinced that the totality of the Annenberg and Woods boards were comprised of entirely like-minded Leftist stereotypes; it's just not feasible on a rational level. Look: we've all I've been friends of people with whom we do not concur. It's especially easy to work and "pal around with" people on a business level that we have a distaste for in principle. For god's sake: Barack Obama is a member of the same U.S. Senate that houses a former Klan member (an Exalted Cyclops, no less!). By the same logic that has been offered, shouldn't he resign the Senate on the grounds that Robert Byrd currently resides there? Bollocks.b,121b,121A President is elected, realistically, on the promise of his future plans. Obama's vote on FISA, though I disagree with it, is certainly not the vote of anything but a present pragmatist.b,121b,121One of the reasons that I have confidence in Barack Obama is that he's markedly outfitted himself with meaty content atop the bones of his ephemeral but question-begged "change" and "hope" platitudes. Just as the man started looking like an empty suit to neutral-minded people, he purposefully fleshed out his policies. It's nearly impossible for the man's detractors to now argue that the man just isn't ready to assume the Office. His debate outings were probably seen as successful because the same folks that heard the GOP tropes of "not ready to lead" and "inexperienced" watched the same debates as we did and couldn't buy those barbs after their TV experience. So now, the Republican attacks are all policy-based: Obama's a Socialist; the man's a pinko; the man's a Liberal; the man's a big spender. Shortly, the same attacks they had againt FDR and LBJ. Funny how that works.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I am not saying Obama or Democrats think there is no moral distinction between the U.S. military and al Qaeda, though that was explicitly said by Reverend Wright in a sermon right after 9-11. I am saying that before Obama became a national figure, he seemed to have views and associations that indicate a progressive left agenda that I would like to see fully vetted and examined before we pick him to be our president. Can't McCain just be making that point and not one that implies that Obama is some Manchurian candidate? I actually have to say that you have persuaded me that the Ayers attack could be both. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Secretly, I believe Obama to be a secularist. He couldn't exactly come out and speak the truth after the Wright thing blew up and say, "look: I really don't go to church all that often, anyway." That would have killed him immediately. I just don't think that the prospect of a Specific God In Heaven affects Obama's policies, and I don't buy him as a very Religious man, despite his necessary-to-this-country church-pandering. I believe that Obama will rule with a clear mind on the divide between Church and State, even if he won't be as much of a man of Atat??rk's cloth as I'd prefer him to be.b,121b,121Additionally - and this is important - a black, city-based community is inexorably tied to the Church in ways than white folks cannot fully understand. For one thing, there's less church-hopping due to pastor-flock squabbles (as seen frequently in WASP-world). Barack Obama employed Trinity as a necessary cultural experience in order to move into a better understanding of his future constituents. Both of his books ascribe and attest to this fact.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121As it stands, I think Obama is Clintonian. I think he is something of an ideological chameleon. I think he made the connections and contacts he did in Hyde Park in order to get elected to the Illinois State Senate. I think when he got to the U.S. Senate he found some new principals and new associations to help him become president. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121I think that you're mostly right about the Obama-as-Clinton pairing, but mostly as it applies to how Obama rose to power. How he will actually govern is still a bit of a cypher (although it's a measured risk I've been willing to take since his election to the Illinois State Senate).b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 As for the idea that McCain is getting reversed smeared...I believe the more historically applicable term would be "chickens coming home to roost" or perhaps, in McCain's parlance, "blowback." Maybe the Ayers thing really doesn't have a thing to do with race but it's such a line of utter bullshit - especially to st
ake a campaign on - that McCain deserves to reap the repercussions, whatever twisted form they may take (and right now, it's hard to say if Ayers is helping him OR hurting him in any substantial way). b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121You are correct that no one is wanting to hear about 1968 in 2008 when the world financial markets are imploding by the day. I disagree that the attack is bullshit, but we've been round and round on that point. I will say this however about the semiotic critique. We have to be careful here. I grant that makers of modern ad campaigns, the spin doctors, the speech writers, the technical political class spend lots of time and research on manipulating images and words and emotions to connote something beneath the literal text. But when we judge and conduct campaigns through their symbolic meanings, we ultimately degrade the national debate. Campaigns ought to be fought out as text. Politicians should attack the positions and policies and votes and yes, past associations, or each other. If it becomes common place to attack an adversary's implied meaning and not his actual positions, then debate itself is in peril. We lose the plain meaning of language. It's like everyone is in on some joke that is really on us.b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I'm not sure that "debate itself is in peril" more that it gets conflated with supra-debate issues that muddy the waters and provide for potential question dodges. Debates, in the classic sense of a clinical points-based excercise, do not exist in politics, and I'm not sure that they ever did. The Lincoln-Douglas offerings were not strictly scholarly in their tenor, for instance. Nowadays, a tough moderator is the only thing that stands between talking-point train tracks and logic-bending fallacies. And pertinent hosts are in short supply.b,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121One addendum. A friend who is supporting Obama over dinner tonight brought to my attention that McCain refers to Obama's tax plan as a form of welfare. That does sound like a fairly ugly little dog whistle. Though I have to see the text. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121He did describe it as akin to welfare, and today he indirectly (yet clearly) described Obama's economic plan as Socialistic (capital "s"). The former is as close as McCain's gotten to racism yet, although I'm not fully convinced that he has directly crossed that bridge, even if he's allowed sideshow acts like his Veep choice to raise the same associations. One could argue, and I wouldn't oppose the effort, that some of McCain's more shadowy ads certainly mine the "exoticism=danger" turf. John McCain will probably open his mouth to this fact in the run-ups to the elections and invalidate my good faith in the man.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121day, that article only proves vitamin's point about how many have that 6th sense 'i see racist people' thing going on. McWhorter basically concedes her analysis is visceral rather than rational with this passage:b,121b,121"So other than hitting the "community organizer" thing a bit too hard, Palin's demagoguery has no rationally decipherable racial code. ("Drill, baby, drill" has the testosterone of retributive aggression, but the implied scapegoat is the planet rather than a race.) Absent any obvious color semaphores, can rhetoric be racial? Or is the old Wallace code now so automatic that the racial pitch is audible to anyone with the ears to hear it?"b,121b,121Usually I would declare such an article a cynical attempt to delegitimise criticism of Obama and smear McCain and Palin, but McWhorter strikes me as just the type of post-modernist turd to sincerely think like this. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Now that's a Dolo that I can talk to. ??Hey! Reason makes a comeback.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121The Palin jabs have been pretty bad. And frankly, some of the worst mysogyny comes from her own proponents. You know: the ones buying the Nailin' Paylin porno. If people on either side of the aisle took her seriously as a political candidate, you wouldn't see as much as much obvious sexism. On character issues alone, I don't think that the other, more viable female GOP candidates would have faced the same criticism.
anyfuckking wayb,121excuse me for a new fuckking york minute batches.....b,121let me ask this......why are people on colin powell's jock and swinging so hard on this devil's nutsack?b,121b,121dude murdered people in vietnam- a war that was declared a "mistake" by it's chief planner-the devil macnamarab,121a war which incenerated 2 million people and spread cancer thruout the whole region with agent orange-not to mention 50,000 us troops dead and half a million woundedb,121b,121this devil murdered people in the first gulf war,by the tens of thousandsb,121b,121this devil helped murder 5000 innocent civillians in the heinous panama deceptionb,121b,121he is a fuckkking pawn in a rigged game b,121a pentagon lackey ,part of the death machineb,121b,121fuckk this bitch and his elder statesman personab,121b,121is it because he is african american and sucked his way up the military chain of command?b,121b,121if he was some white hawk would you even know his name?b,121b,121call me a bleeding heart hippy idealist but really ,who gives a flying fuckkk what he thinksb,121b,121his only redeeming value is that hwe was the only one to cry foul against the present illegal human catastrophe in iraq?b,121b,121that's something i suppose but not very muchb,121b,121this is a sign of the fact that obama will be co-opted and be made to do fuckkked up shit as the POTUSb,121b,121i remember clinton playing sax on arsenio hall one minute and bombing labs in the sudan,passing tougher drug laws and making all kinds of erroneous hawk like foreign policy military decisionsb,121b,121vry little will change so don't get too excited folls
Quote:/font1h,121b,121i remember clinton playing sax on arsenio hall one minute and bombing labs in the sudan,passing tougher drug laws,FREEZIN' OUT HAITIAN REFUGEES, and making all kinds of erroneous hawk like foreign policy military decisionsb,121b,121vry little will change so don't get too excited folls b,121b,121h,121
Quote:/font1h,121b,121call me a bleeding heart hippy idealist but... b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121yeah, that's the first thing that comes to mind when I think 'kala'b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/841.gif" alt="" 21
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121anyfuckking wayb,121excuse me for a new fuckking york minute batches.....b,121let me ask this......why are people on colin powell's jock and swinging so hard on this devil's nutsack?b,121b,121dude murdered people in vietnam- a war that was declared a "mistake" by it's chief planner-the devil macnamarab,121a war which incenerated 2 million people and spread cancer thruout the whole region with agent orange-not to mention 50,000 us troops dead and half a million woundedb,121b,121this devil murdered people in the first gulf war,by the tens of thousandsb,121b,121this devil helped murder 5000 innocent civillians in the heinous panama deceptionb,121b,121he is a fuckkking pawn in a rigged game b,121a pentagon lackey ,part of the death machineb,121b,121fuckk this bitch and his elder statesman personab,121b,121is it because he is african american and sucked his way up the military chain of command?b,121b,121if he was some white hawk would you even know his name?b,121b,121call me a bleeding heart hippy idealist but really ,who gives a flying fuckkk what he thinksb,121b,121his only redeeming value is that hwe was the only one to cry foul against the present illegal human catastrophe in iraq?b,121b,121that's something i suppose but not very muchb,121b,121this is a sign of the fact that obama will be co-opted and be made to do fuckkked up shit as the POTUSb,121b,121i remember clinton playing sax on arsenio hall one minute and bombing labs in the sudan,passing tougher drug laws and making all kinds of erroneous hawk like foreign policy military decisionsb,121b,121vry little will change so don't get too excited folls b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Yes, Obama supporters should be beaming with pride that butchers such as Colin Powell are now endorsing his campaign. If only Pol Pot and Idi Amin were still around...
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Yes, Obama supporters should be beaming with pride that butchers such as Colin Powell are now endorsing his campaign. If only Pol Pot and Idi Amin were still around... b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121too subtle - see if you can work in a Hitler reference next timeb,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1074.gif" alt="" 21
Quote:/font1h,121b,121oh and by the way... this so called "Elite" slur is so ridiculous.... its like saying going to college and getting smart makes you dangerous to america. it almost sounds like they want to keep us all dumb and uneducated....b,121b,121oh wait..... b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Palin quote:b,121b,121Those "universities" that want to teach only the bad side of americab,121b,121those universities!b,121b,121that teach history
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121Yes, Obama supporters should be beaming with pride that butchers such as Colin Powell are now endorsing his campaign. If only Pol Pot and Idi Amin were still around... b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121too subtle - see if you can work in a Hitler reference next timeb,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/1074.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121But Hitler was white...not as impressive as a non-white butcher.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121The Palin jabs have been pretty bad. And frankly, some of the worst mysogyny comes from her own proponents. You know: the ones buying the Nailin' Paylin porno. If people on either side of the aisle took her seriously as a political candidate, you wouldn't see as much as much obvious sexism. On character issues alone, I don't think that the other, more viable female GOP candidates would have faced the same criticism. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cos3ve.gif" alt="" 21b,121b,121It's pretty sad.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121vry little will change so don't get too excited folls b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121If you think the U.S. government will someday extoll the values and ideals of the one Kala you are mistaken. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121new national holiday - "I LIKE TO FUCKKK ETHNIC WOMEN DAY"b,121b,121b,121---
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121The Palin jabs have been pretty bad. And frankly, some of the worst mysogyny comes from her own proponents. You know: the ones buying the Nailin' Paylin porno. If people on either side of the aisle took her seriously as a political candidate, you wouldn't see as much as much obvious sexism. On character issues alone, I don't think that the other, more viable female GOP candidates would have faced the same criticism. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cos3ve.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I can assure you that my copy of Nailin' Paylin was purchased soley to find out what I'm up against in this war on sexism. So that when some radical tries the "oh yeah, I bet you haven't even SEEN nailin pailin!!" I can come back with "Oh yes, I have! Many Many times!" Boom. Suckers will learn.b,121b,121b,121And Vitamin, a rant against you and a rant against the republican party is the same thing. you've come in here spouting the "talking points" so often that I don't see any difference. Or you and the McCain campaign. You've become a machine of campaign talking points and actually expected people to take you seriously.b,121b,121b,121The republican party has made it preetty clear... If you aren't a christian then they don't want you. If you are gay they don't want you. If you are black, they'll take you as long as you disavow any sort of "blackness". They have made that ABUNDANTLY clear. They attempt over and over and over again to inject their christian propoganda into our schools and local governments. Their anti-homosexuality is so out in the open I'm suprised more people aren't outrages by their blatant attempts at descrimination. And they call it "Protecting the family" or some ridiculous nonsense like that. b,121b,121And all this talk about "Family Values". I garuantee you that my family does not share any of those values of hate. My son will be raised with such non-republican values as "Education is good, the more the better" and "People should be treated fairly regardless of race, color, sexual orientation, number of toes, etc." and "Schools are for education, churches are for religion. If you want religion taught in your school, go to a religious school" and "Dinosaurs are real. Evolution is real. Science is good." Beleifs like these that are considered "radical" and "leftist" by the people that YOU choose to associate yourself with. An attack on them and an attack on you is one and the same.b,121b,121Take it personal. I don't like you.
It's somewhat amusing to listen to right wing talk radio this morning calling Powell a "traitor". These Rush following Religious Right idjits are watching themselves and their views slip away into insignificance although I'm certain their very vocal minority status will get louder during the next 4 years.b,121b,121But what's even more amusing is watching the Far Left loons who have yet to figure out that their views are also becoming insignificant. Somehow they seem to think Obama represents them, yet it couldn't be further from the truth.b,121b,121I stood up and supported Obama for President almost a year ago because I saw him as someone who would bridge the gap between left and right, not increase it.b,121b,121I saw Obama as someone who recognized that personal ideals aside, the only way to get things done in this country was to meet in the middle.b,121b,121Anyone who thinks the answers to our country's problems lie in the far right or far left ideals is a blind fool.b,121b,121And when people like Colin Powell put party affiliation aside and support a centrist platform I know I was right.b,121b,121It's time for the Rush Limbaugh's, Al Franken's, Ralph Nader's, Dennis Kucinich's, Karl Rove's and Ann Coulter's and all their minions to fade away into obscurity.b,121b,121The 60%-80% of hard working, taxpaying, logical thinking Americans want our country back.b,121b,121And it's about to happen.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121The Palin jabs have been pretty bad. And frankly, some of the worst mysogyny comes from her own proponents. You know: the ones buying the Nailin' Paylin porno. If people on either side of the aisle took her seriously as a political candidate, you wouldn't see as much as much obvious sexism. On character issues alone, I don't think that the other, more viable female GOP candidates would have faced the same criticism. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cos3ve.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I can assure you that my copy of Nailin' Paylin was purchased soley to find out what I'm up against in this war on sexism. So that when some radical tries the "oh yeah, I bet you haven't even SEEN nailin pailin!!" I can come back with "Oh yes, I have! Many Many times!" Boom. Suckers will learn.b,121b,121b,121And Vitamin, a rant against you and a rant against the republican party is the same thing. you've come in here spouting the "talking points" so often that I don't see any difference. Or you and the McCain campaign. You've become a machine of campaign talking points and actually expected people to take you seriously.b,121b,121b,121The republican party has made it preetty clear... If you aren't a christian then they don't want you. If you are gay they don't want you. If you are black, they'll take you as long as you disavow any sort of "blackness". They have made that ABUNDANTLY clear. They attempt over and over and over again to inject their christian propoganda into our schools and local governments. Their anti-homosexuality is so out in the open I'm suprised more people aren't outrages by their blatant attempts at descrimination. And they call it "Protecting the family" or some ridiculous nonsense like that. b,121b,121And all this talk about "Family Values". I garuantee you that my family does not share any of those values of hate. My son will be raised with such non-republican values as "Education is good, the more the better" and "People should be treated fairly regardless of race, color, sexual orientation, number of toes, etc." and "Schools are for education, churches are for religion. If you want religion taught in your school, go to a religious school" and "Dinosaurs are real. Evolution is real. Science is good." Beleifs like these that are considered "radical" and "leftist" by the people that YOU choose to associate yourself with. An attack on them and an attack on you is one and the same.b,121b,121Take it personal. I don't like you. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121This polarization is so last century.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121b,121But what's even more amusing is watching the Far Left loons who have yet to figure out that their views are also becoming insignificant. Somehow they seem to think Obama represents them, yet it couldn't be further from the truth.b,121b,121 b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121I've always thought this was hilarious. The far right brands someone like Clinton or Obama as a lefty, and a bunch of folks on the far left beleive it, and get all asshurt when the candidates turn out to be middle-leaning-right. They seem to be paying attention to everything but the facts.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121 For me Ayers is a sign post indicating a dangerous neutralism in foreign affairsb,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Obama will never be 'neutral', but would a move towards that and away from 'superior' be such a bad thing? Oh, sorry, what am I thinking.b,121b,121/font1
Quote:/font1h,121b,121 but also a hard left conception of America itself, which relegates our country to the same moral standing as our enemies. b,121b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121Gasp!b,121b,121b,121b,121I want to go back to my old loc: The Bush supporter's resistance to information.b,121America's not that bad, but at the same time, there's no point deluding yourself that a country with so many 'interests' abroad is whiter than white. Unless of course, you're a Republican.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121The Palin jabs have been pretty bad. And frankly, some of the worst mysogyny comes from her own proponents. You know: the ones buying the Nailin' Paylin porno. If people on either side of the aisle took her seriously as a political candidate, you wouldn't see as much as much obvious sexism. On character issues alone, I don't think that the other, more viable female GOP candidates would have faced the same criticism. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cos3ve.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I can assure you that my copy of Nailin' Paylin was purchased soley to find out what I'm up against in this war on sexism. So that when some radical tries the "oh yeah, I bet you haven't even SEEN nailin pailin!!" I can come back with "Oh yes, I have! Many Many times!" Boom. Suckers will learn.b,121b,121b,121And Vitamin, a rant against you and a rant against the republican party is the same thing. you've come in here spouting the "talking points" so often that I don't see any difference. Or you and the McCain campaign. You've become a machine of campaign talking points and actually expected people to take you seriously.b,121b,121b,121The republican party has made it preetty clear... If you aren't a christian then they don't want you. If you are gay they don't want you. If you are black, they'll take you as long as you disavow any sort of "blackness". They have made that ABUNDANTLY clear. They attempt over and over and over again to inject their christian propoganda into our schools and local governments. Their anti-homosexuality is so out in the open I'm suprised more people aren't outrages by their blatant attempts at descrimination. And they call it "Protecting the family" or some ridiculous nonsense like that. b,121b,121And all this talk about "Family Values". I garuantee you that my family does not share any of those values of hate. My son will be raised with such non-republican values as "Education is good, the more the better" and "People should be treated fairly regardless of race, color, sexual orientation, number of toes, etc." and "Schools are for education, churches are for religion. If you want religion taught in your school, go to a religious school" and "Dinosaurs are real. Evolution is real. Science is good." Beleifs like these that are considered "radical" and "leftist" by the people that YOU choose to associate yourself with. An attack on them and an attack on you is one and the same.b,121b,121Take it personal. I don't like you. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121This polarization is so last century. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121I hope you are kidding.... I'm assuming you are but I just wanted to make sure....
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121The Palin jabs have been pretty bad. And frankly, some of the worst mysogyny comes from her own proponents. You know: the ones buying the Nailin' Paylin porno. If people on either side of the aisle took her seriously as a political candidate, you wouldn't see as much as much obvious sexism. On character issues alone, I don't think that the other, more viable female GOP candidates would have faced the same criticism. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cos3ve.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I can assure you that my copy of Nailin' Paylin was purchased soley to find out what I'm up against in this war on sexism. So that when some radical tries the "oh yeah, I bet you haven't even SEEN nailin pailin!!" I can come back with "Oh yes, I have! Many Many times!" Boom. Suckers will learn.b,121b,121b,121And Vitamin, a rant against you and a rant against the republican party is the same thing. you've come in here spouting the "talking points" so often that I don't see any difference. Or you and the McCain campaign. You've become a machine of campaign talking points and actually expected people to take you seriously.b,121b,121b,121The republican party has made it preetty clear... If you aren't a christian then they don't want you. If you are gay they don't want you. If you are black, they'll take you as long as you disavow any sort of "blackness". They have made that ABUNDANTLY clear. They attempt over and over and over again to inject their christian propoganda into our schools and local governments. Their anti-homosexuality is so out in the open I'm suprised more people aren't outrages by their blatant attempts at descrimination. And they call it "Protecting the family" or some ridiculous nonsense like that. b,121b,121And all this talk about "Family Values". I garuantee you that my family does not share any of those values of hate. My son will be raised with such non-republican values as "Education is good, the more the better" and "People should be treated fairly regardless of race, color, sexual orientation, number of toes, etc." and "Schools are for education, churches are for religion. If you want religion taught in your school, go to a religious school" and "Dinosaurs are real. Evolution is real. Science is good." Beleifs like these that are considered "radical" and "leftist" by the people that YOU choose to associate yourself with. An attack on them and an attack on you is one and the same.b,121b,121Take it personal. I don't like you. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Is this really the best you can do? I am a Republican, so fill in the blank. Nothing I write must be original, so it's all talking points. Yeah yeah yeah. And your ad hominum non sequitors about science and Christians is exactly what? Anyway, you bore me. I will stick to debating the strutters who are not semi-literate slogan shouters.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121I'd also like to add: the subtlety of racism against Obama has nothing on the far more explicit misogyny directed at Palin. So much so that I find it troubling that people are so defensive about perceived slights against Obama while practically urging on far worse sentiments against Palin.b,121b,121I find her to be an insult to the feminist movement and one of the worst candidates ever put up for a presidential ticket and her rhetoric has been reprehensible. But none of that justifies the blatant misogyny directed at her; I've seen stuff that makes the "Obama Bucks" look like a Malcolm X poster. b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121The Palin jabs have been pretty bad. And frankly, some of the worst mysogyny comes from her own proponents. You know: the ones buying the Nailin' Paylin porno. If people on either side of the aisle took her seriously as a political candidate, you wouldn't see as much as much obvious sexism. On character issues alone, I don't think that the other, more viable female GOP candidates would have faced the same criticism. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121 img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cos3ve.gif" alt="" 21 b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121I can assure you that my copy of Nailin' Paylin was purchased soley to find out what I'm up against in this war on sexism. So that when some radical tries the "oh yeah, I bet you haven't even SEEN nailin pailin!!" I can come back with "Oh yes, I have! Many Many times!" Boom. Suckers will learn.b,121b,121b,121And Vitamin, a rant against you and a rant against the republican party is the same thing. you've come in here spouting the "talking points" so often that I don't see any difference. Or you and the McCain campaign. You've become a machine of campaign talking points and actually expected people to take you seriously.b,121b,121b,121The republican party has made it preetty clear... If you aren't a christian then they don't want you. If you are gay they don't want you. If you are black, they'll take you as long as you disavow any sort of "blackness". They have made that ABUNDANTLY clear. They attempt over and over and over again to inject their christian propoganda into our schools and local governments. Their anti-homosexuality is so out in the open I'm suprised more people aren't outrages by their blatant attempts at descrimination. And they call it "Protecting the family" or some ridiculous nonsense like that. b,121b,121And all this talk about "Family Values". I garuantee you that my family does not share any of those values of hate. My son will be raised with such non-republican values as "Education is good, the more the better" and "People should be treated fairly regardless of race, color, sexual orientation, number of toes, etc." and "Schools are for education, churches are for religion. If you want religion taught in your school, go to a religious school" and "Dinosaurs are real. Evolution is real. Science is good." Beleifs like these that are considered "radical" and "leftist" by the people that YOU choose to associate yourself with. An attack on them and an attack on you is one and the same.b,121b,121Take it personal. I don't like you. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121This polarization is so last century. b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121b,121I hope you are kidding.... I'm assuming you are but I just wanted to make sure.... b,121b,121h,121font class="post"1b,121b,121Feel free to attack Vitamin I can care less. b,121b,121But there are Black Republicans who don't have to disavow their "Blackness". b,121The generalizations coming from both sides is just so tired and last century.b,121b,121Carry on.
You have to admit though, if you are an athiest, buddhist, hindi, and especially a muslim you would pretty much have to be insane to support the republican party.b,121b,121You can at least admit that, right?
Quote:/font1h,121b,121You have to admit though, if you are an athiest, buddhist, hindi, and especially a muslim you would pretty much have to be insane to support the republican party.b,121b,121You can at least admit that, right? b,121b,121h,121
font class="post"1b,121b,121Waaaay off base.....all of the above can be fiscal conservatives and vote Republican based on that view if it's their priority.b,121b,121Keeping religion and politics separate is quite a concept.
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