In all honesty, Kobe's team was NOT all that bad. That's a lame excuse. If he's as great as everybody say, he could've made a TEAM out of his team. Wouldn't that be one of the most favorable traits of an MVP?
In my opinion, an argument could be made that a black player should be the MVP every year--some of those Larry Bird years excepted.
let's hear the argument then. save yourself from being called a racist for the next 4 hours.
I don't need to make an argument...Call me a reverse racist all day.
Everyone who is a memberOlder members[/b] of this community knows that I am TIMB (totally into my blackness).
1) I didn't call you a racist, I just assumed somebody would, as racially touchy as this board seems to get.
2) I'm newer, sorry I wasn't in tune with your blackness as much as you are, but hey it's good to know now.
I was gonna ask who you would've picked this year if not Nash and was gonna guess you'd pick Kobe or LeBron, and you picked LeBron. good choice. I don't buy peoples' Kobe argument although I don't disagree that Kobe is one of the most talented players to ever play in the NBA.
I would have picked Lebron. But here is a little bit about what Nash had done this season, from ESPN.
I didn't know it was like that.
This season, Nash had career-highs in points (18.8 points per game), rebounds (4.2 per game), field goal percentage (51.2 percent) and free throw percentage (92.1 percent -- best in the league). He was also the league-leader in assists (10.5) and shot nearly 50 percent from three-point range.
Great invidiual accomplishment, but I'm still sitting here like twice in a ROW? Cm'on...next...
I would have picked Lebron. But here is a little bit about what Nash had done this season, from ESPN.
I didn't know it was like that.
This season, Nash had career-highs in points (18.8 points per game), rebounds (4.2 per game), field goal percentage (51.2 percent) and free throw percentage (92.1 percent -- best in the league). He was also the league-leader in assists (10.5) and shot nearly 50 percent from three-point range.
Yeah, but--with the exception of assists and free throw percentage--those stats are more meaningful within the context of Nash's career than in a discussion of the entire league during this particular year, and free-throw percentage is only meaningful in the context of how often he gets to the line (which I don't know).
Just saying. Those stats have particular appeal to the mindset that reasons "Well, he was MVP last year and he was even better this year, so he should be MVP again," but ignores the fact that about five other guys had similarly big seasons this year.
so we're all in agreeance then (except yuichi) that LeBron is the NBA (SoulStrut) MVP for the 05-06 season? Can Billups get an honorable mention or am I giving him more credit than I should only because he's on the best team in the league?
so we're all in agreeance then (except yuichi) that LeBron is the NBA (SoulStrut) MVP for the 05-06 season? Can Billups get an honorable mention or am I giving him more credit than I should only because he's on the best team in the league?
I think he belongs in the discussion, but would have a hard time giving it to him because he's not obviously the best dude on his own team (I felt the same way about Nash last year).
In all honesty, Kobe's team was NOT all that bad. That's a lame excuse. If he's as great as everybody say, he could've made a TEAM out of his team. Wouldn't that be one of the most favorable traits of an MVP?
Lamar Odom- an established player, and one that will NEVER will a championship due to his style of play. Use of spacing on the court is HORRIFIC. 6'9" and tries to take the flop!
Kwame Brown- getting better, but can't keep intensity for 48 minutes.
Sasha- good, but a lightweight
Devean George- incosistent, and has a low basketball IQ
Smush Parker- lacks intensity, but is good on the break
Brian Cook- the occassional string of jumpers, useless for all other purposes
Luke Walton- good playmaker, but not great.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
I agree and would very much like to know what, if any, criteria is set for determining an MVP. As far as I know, it's put to a vote by coaches, analysts and others, not based on set qualifications. When I think of MVP, I work from which player is most valuable to any individual team. Basically, what team would have fallen apart this season without this player. That, for me, keeps Nash, Bryant and James at the top of the stack. And it looks like individual (all around) stats is where people go from there in solidifying their vote.
I would have picked Lebron. But here is a little bit about what Nash had done this season, from ESPN.
I didn't know it was like that.
This season, Nash had career-highs in points (18.8 points per game), rebounds (4.2 per game), field goal percentage (51.2 percent) and free throw percentage (92.1 percent -- best in the league). He was also the league-leader in assists (10.5) and shot nearly 50 percent from three-point range.
Yeah, but--with the exception of assists and free throw percentage--those stats are more meaningful within the context of Nash's career than in a discussion of the entire league during this particular year, and free-throw percentage is only meaningful in the context of how often he gets to the line (which I don't know).
Just saying. Those stats have particular appeal to the mindset that reasons "Well, he was MVP last year and he was even better this year, so he should be MVP again," but ignores the fact that about five other guys had similarly big seasons this year.
am I giving him more credit than I should only because he's on the best team in the league?
Yes, I'm not even convinced he's the most valuable player on the pistons
From what I've been hearing, the players themselves believe Rasheed is the most important piece. But, to me that is more to do with the energy and flare he brings than stats, because dude is HOT and cold like a motherfucker. Hard to say though, because while each of the starters plays a vital role, Billups is the ringermaster.
i would have preferred to see someone else win it for the sake of variety, but it's hard to deny what nash did this season and last. he has as much of an impact on his team as any player in the league. the suns are a damn good team even without stoudemire (who's now probably one of the top 5-10 players in the league, or at least was before the injury .. knock wood) - there hasn't been a player since jordan to maximize his teammates so well. and to use this as an example of how the nba allegedly doesn't care about black people ... it's a disgrace and a joke. besides, another white boy - dirk - was just as qualified to win it.
even still .. without lebron, the cavs are horrible; without kobe the lakers are a relatively clueless young team that wouldn't win anything; without nash (and w/ injured stoudemire) the suns are still a very well-coached team with another top-15 talent (marion) and plenty of other good pieces (bell, barbosa, k. thomas) and the MIP as well (diaw). so yeah, the nash effect is undeniable, but i'd like to see it go to a player who singlehandedly carried his team to the playoffs, if only because there were a few this year. if it were up to me i'd begrudgingly give the slight edge to kobe over lebron because he was without question the best player this season and he brought the lakers back to the playoffs. plus, i'd be willing to bet that, at some point in his career, lebron will win back-to-back-to-back mvp's, so he'll eventually get his.
In all honesty, Kobe's team was NOT all that bad. That's a lame excuse. If he's as great as everybody say, he could've made a TEAM out of his team. Wouldn't that be one of the most favorable traits of an MVP?
Lamar Odom- an established player, and one that will NEVER will a championship due to his style of play. Use of spacing on the court is HORRIFIC. 6'9" and tries to take the flop!
Kwame Brown- getting better, but can't keep intensity for 48 minutes.
Sasha- good, but a lightweight
Devean George- incosistent, and has a low basketball IQ
Smush Parker- lacks intensity, but is good on the break
Brian Cook- the occassional string of jumpers, useless for all other purposes
Luke Walton- good playmaker, but not great.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
ok and the Nuggets have equal if not more weaknesses yet they came into the playoffs this season with the same record as the Lakers. I'm just saying if you think dude deserves MVP, that's cool, I think he was a top candidate. But base it off of his actual accomplishments, not excuses that he had a shitty team.
even still .. without lebron, the cavs are horrible; without kobe the lakers are a relatively clueless young team that wouldn't win anything; without nash (and w/ injured stoudemire) the suns are still a very well-coached team with another top-15 talent (marion) and plenty of other good pieces (bell, barbosa, k. thomas) and the MIP as well (diaw). so yeah, the nash effect is undeniable, but i'd like to see it go to a player who singlehandedly carried his team to the playoffs, if only because there were a few this year. if it were up to me i'd begrudgingly give the slight edge to kobe over lebron because he was without question the best player this season and he brought the lakers back to the playoffs. plus, i'd be willing to bet that, at some point in his career, lebron will win back-to-back-to-back mvp's, so he'll eventually get his.
For those in favor of Nash, go back and read that part about his teammates. Something about "other good pieces".
i would have preferred to see someone else win it for the sake of variety, but it's hard to deny what nash did this season and last.
Well, not just for variety. To me, when there are two other candidates who are clearly just as deserving as the guy who got it last year (Kobe and Lebron; I'd give it to Nash over either Billups or Nowitski) it militates strongly against giving it to that guy a second time. And consecutive MVPs are a cumulative honor--does anyone really think that Nash is on that Bill Russell/Wilt/Magic level? The funny thing is, from what I've read of Nash, I bet he would agree with what I'm saying here.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
I can already hear Kobe in the post-game interview saying, "Yo, I can't get any love around the league? I just use this type of thing to motivate me to win another ring."
i would have preferred to see someone else win it for the sake of variety, but it's hard to deny what nash did this season and last.
Well, not just for variety. To me, when there are two other candidates who are clearly just as deserving as the guy who got it last year (Kobe and Lebron; I'd give it to Nash over either Billups or Nowitski) it militates strongly against giving it to that guy a second time. And consecutive MVPs are a cumulative honor--does anyone really think that Nash is on that Bill Russell/Wilt/Magic level? The funny thing is, from what I've read of Nash, I bet he would agree with what I'm saying here.
no doubt about it. too bad so many are swayed by his overall rep in the league, the exciting run-and-gun, and people's lack of recognition that he's playing with some SOLID athletes.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
I can already hear Kobe in the post-game interview saying, "Yo, I can't get any love around the league? I just use this type of thing to motivate me to win another ring."
The current Kobe doesn't talk that way much--watch him go out of his way to say that the MVP doesn't matter to him. That he doesn't know who got it because he doesn't pay attention to things like that.
in my view he's the best point guard since magic, so it's not all that shocking to me, but i do agree to a point. last year it was pretty obvious; this year it was much less so, and i thought the cases made for a few other guys were a bit more compelling. it's the same w/ billups - nothing against the way he played this year, because he was great, but he's 1/5 of the best starting 5 we've seen in decades ... without him would the team collapse? but yeah, nash is the engine behind our version of the showtime lakers, gotta respect that ... his career since he left the mavs has really been that impressive.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
I can already hear Kobe in the post-game interview saying, "Yo, I can't get any love around the league? I just use this type of thing to motivate me to win another ring."
it's all gravy. even with all the hate he gets nation-wide, he consistently gets smiles and looks of awe from the opposing crowd, when he launches one from 25 ft, defender in his face. Or heading into halftime, through-3-defenders, spin move. I love how the crowd is like "aww yea we hate you, but we know that you're the shit". puts a smile on a kid's face.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
I can already hear Kobe in the post-game interview saying, "Yo, I can't get any love around the league? I just use this type of thing to motivate me to win another ring."
it's all gravy. even with all the hate he gets nation-wide, he consistently gets smiles and looks of awe from the opposing crowd, when he launches one from 25 ft, defender in his face. Or heading into halftime, through-3-defenders, spin move. I love how the crowd is like "aww yea we hate you, but we know that you're the shit". puts a smile on a kid's face.
Actually, now that Kobe has become one of the most hatted on dudes in the League, I am kind of feeling him.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
I can already hear Kobe in the post-game interview saying, "Yo, I can't get any love around the league? I just use this type of thing to motivate me to win another ring."
it's all gravy. even with all the hate he gets nation-wide, he consistently gets smiles and looks of awe from the opposing crowd, when he launches one from 25 ft, defender in his face. Or heading into halftime, through-3-defenders, spin move. I love how the crowd is like "aww yea we hate you, but we know that you're the shit". puts a smile on a kid's face.
Actually, now that Kobe has become one of the most hatted on dudes in the League, I am kind of feeling him.
Comments
LeBron?
Also, it's ironic that Bob Cousy was mentioned--they didn't even pick the right white guy that year...
Lebron at 6'8" and pretty much unguardable woulda been a good pick. He doesn't play D though.
Not many people wanna admit it but this was Kobe's year. F all the prescedents of getting 50 wins in a season. Look at who he was playing with!!!
1) I didn't call you a racist, I just assumed somebody would, as racially touchy as this board seems to get.
2) I'm newer, sorry I wasn't in tune with your blackness as much as you are, but hey it's good to know now.
I was gonna ask who you would've picked this year if not Nash and was gonna guess you'd pick Kobe or LeBron, and you picked LeBron. good choice. I don't buy peoples' Kobe argument although I don't disagree that Kobe is one of the most talented players to ever play in the NBA.
I didn't know it was like that.
Great invidiual accomplishment, but I'm still sitting here like twice in a ROW? Cm'on...next...
Yeah, but--with the exception of assists and free throw percentage--those stats are more meaningful within the context of Nash's career than in a discussion of the entire league during this particular year, and free-throw percentage is only meaningful in the context of how often he gets to the line (which I don't know).
Just saying. Those stats have particular appeal to the mindset that reasons "Well, he was MVP last year and he was even better this year, so he should be MVP again," but ignores the fact that about five other guys had similarly big seasons this year.
so we're all in agreeance then (except yuichi) that LeBron is the NBA (SoulStrut) MVP for the 05-06 season? Can Billups get an honorable mention or am I giving him more credit than I should only because he's on the best team in the league?
Yes, I'm not even convinced he's the most valuable player on the pistons
I think he belongs in the discussion, but would have a hard time giving it to him because he's not obviously the best dude on his own team (I felt the same way about Nash last year).
Lamar Odom- an established player, and one that will NEVER will a championship due to his style of play. Use of spacing on the court is HORRIFIC. 6'9" and tries to take the flop!
Kwame Brown- getting better, but can't keep intensity for 48 minutes.
Sasha- good, but a lightweight
Devean George- incosistent, and has a low basketball IQ
Smush Parker- lacks intensity, but is good on the break
Brian Cook- the occassional string of jumpers, useless for all other purposes
Luke Walton- good playmaker, but not great.
and he got them into the playoffs. If KG and AI have won honors, then i don't see how this wasn't his year.
good points made.
From what I've been hearing, the players themselves believe Rasheed is the most important piece. But, to me that is more to do with the energy and flare he brings than stats, because dude is HOT and cold like a motherfucker. Hard to say though, because while each of the starters plays a vital role, Billups is the ringermaster.
even still .. without lebron, the cavs are horrible; without kobe the lakers are a relatively clueless young team that wouldn't win anything; without nash (and w/ injured stoudemire) the suns are still a very well-coached team with another top-15 talent (marion) and plenty of other good pieces (bell, barbosa, k. thomas) and the MIP as well (diaw). so yeah, the nash effect is undeniable, but i'd like to see it go to a player who singlehandedly carried his team to the playoffs, if only because there were a few this year. if it were up to me i'd begrudgingly give the slight edge to kobe over lebron because he was without question the best player this season and he brought the lakers back to the playoffs. plus, i'd be willing to bet that, at some point in his career, lebron will win back-to-back-to-back mvp's, so he'll eventually get his.
ok and the Nuggets have equal if not more weaknesses yet they came into the playoffs this season with the same record as the Lakers. I'm just saying if you think dude deserves MVP, that's cool, I think he was a top candidate. But base it off of his actual accomplishments, not excuses that he had a shitty team.
For those in favor of Nash, go back and read that part about his teammates. Something about "other good pieces".
Tell me how many of those 60 wins Dallas would have WITHOUT Dirk Nowitzki!!!
Well, not just for variety. To me, when there are two other candidates who are clearly just as deserving as the guy who got it last year (Kobe and Lebron; I'd give it to Nash over either Billups or Nowitski) it militates strongly against giving it to that guy a second time. And consecutive MVPs are a cumulative honor--does anyone really think that Nash is on that Bill Russell/Wilt/Magic level? The funny thing is, from what I've read of Nash, I bet he would agree with what I'm saying here.
I can already hear Kobe in the post-game interview saying, "Yo, I can't get any love around the league? I just use this type of thing to motivate me to win another ring."
no doubt about it. too bad so many are swayed by his overall rep in the league, the exciting run-and-gun, and people's lack of recognition that he's playing with some SOLID athletes.
The current Kobe doesn't talk that way much--watch him go out of his way to say that the MVP doesn't matter to him. That he doesn't know who got it because he doesn't pay attention to things like that.
Actually, now that Kobe has become one of the most hatted on dudes in the League, I am kind of feeling him.
Eight the Great: "Not yet son"
HaHahahahahaha!
Clippers need to get knocked out the first round or we will be attacked by nukes
Yeah, imagine racism coming up while discussing the NBA. Crazy!