If I was trying to introduce VH to someone I wouldn't go with stuff from Fair Warning, even though it's one of their best LP's it's pretty dark as VH goes. Try these:
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Life magazine did this and came out with Pearl Jam as GOAT. I cant stand them because i hate eddie vedders voice.
did anyone shout out the Beach Boys itb?
btw Van Halen are dutch. By way of cali.
skel said:
It's all good. We're 10 pages in and focusing on something that can unite the whole board.
A band led by a bassist; black, English born, with an Afro-Guyanese father. Raised Irish, with Scots and Irish band mates, even American in there, and drum breaks too!
An ultimate strut gestalt entity.
::group hug::
"It's got what it takes - so tell me whyyyy cant this be looove" /synth rock face/
Btw Jump is a fucking awesome song.
One of my spawn obsesses over that video and I'm proud to say that at 5 years old hes taking after DLR, with a vengeance, splits, and all.
Ive had a hard time convincing his mother how excellent a role model Lee Roth really is. Loving life, irrepressible, enterprising, etc etc
how excellent a role model Lee Roth really is. Loving life, irrepressible, enterprising, etc etc
]
And here in a nutshell is why the majority of britfudes here will not ride.
We generally recoil from this, it's all a bit sus and not borne out by life's disappointments.
Think I want my rockers a bit more weather beaten, done down by bad women and hard luck, brooding but defiant.
The whole "we can do this" stuff sucks big time in our psyche.
Generally, natch.
how excellent a role model Lee Roth really is. Loving life, irrepressible, enterprising, etc etc
]
And here in a nutshell is why the majority of britfudes here will not ride.
We generally recoil from this, it's all a bit sus and not borne out by life's disappointments.
Think I want my rockers a bit more weather beaten, done down by bad women and hard luck, brooding but defiant.
The whole "we can do this" stuff sucks big time in our psyche.
Generally, natch.
years active
massive mainstream appeal
critical praise
shit ton of hits
legendary touring history
I think all this is primary criteria for GOAT... more so than influence and what sounds best today.
Am I wrong?
Bad Brains.
Do u need everyone to like u to be important?
Yeah I totally hear ya, but I think popularity should be a huge factor.
Huge.
I mean as much as I dislike KISS (outside their first few records which are great) I think their popularity scores monster points for GOAT.
It doesn't seem fair but I think it's the way its gotta be.
Bad Brains. Damn. Any damn day over KISS... but unfortunately the masses haven't even heard of them.
I'm kind of thinking out loud here too, so... there's that. I just have always liked this topic.
Since there is no way to answer this question objectively, it should be answered subjectively. Using stats like years active and # of hits is just an attempt to make it objective.
I say screw all that. What about quality of songs (writing and performance)? Surely the greatest US rock song must have been released by the greatest US rock band, no?
Also, where does image come into play?
Yeah I totally hear ya, but I think popularity should be a huge factor.
Huge.
Popularity with the masses doesn't factor too high for me. If a band helped many many other bands be great, then they are (one of) the greatest.
(Bad Brains shaped my life, they are beyond the greatest, but they are a hardcore band)
You know when you are in sync with your friends on a lot of things, and the things you aren't, you can at least see/hear/understand it, even if it's not to your taste? I will never get the Van Halen appeal.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Three weeks before the premier screening, I received an email asking for approval to use two Big Boys songs in a documentary about the Bad Brains. In '82 and '83 the mainstream press and even the bigger "alternatives" (MTV, Rolling Stone) were not interested at all in the DIY culture, known as punk/hardcore, but all the DIY fanzines of the time were writing articles and editorials about the Bad Brains' visit to Austin Texas and their homophobic "freak out" when confronted with gay singers Randy Biscuit Turner (Big Boys) and Gary Floyd (Dicks).
I have had to tell the Bad Brains/Big Boys story at least once every 5 or 6 months for the last 30 years. So much information, misinformation, peoples' "truths," and hearsay have been written, that even when facts are given, is usually accompanied by some sort of disclaimer. As Chris Gates said recently, "It's their Altamont." The Bad Brains have tried to downplay this whole Austin incident and/or put the blame for it onto us or just Biscuit. It has always been looked at by them (and others) as a gay issue, when in fact for us, that was only a small part of a bigger picture. In a scene where everything was based on community, they took money from Biscuit and defaced property of the very people who had opened their home to them (Beth and I). In all the years that people have stayed here, we have NEVER had a problem except when the Bad Brains stayed.
The facts...
The Bad Brains came to Austin to play a show we had set up. They stayed at our house (Beth's and mine). Most of the door money that night had gone to the Bad Brains because as always, most of the door back then would go to help out the touring band. When the show was over, HR had complimented Biscuit on the show and he then asked Biscuit if he was gay. Biscuit said yes. The HR/Bad Brains freak out began and here is where the accounts of the story get skewed by others who were not even there. Biscuit DID NOT make a "pass" at HR -- period. Beth and I were both there and this did NOT happen.
In all the years we all knew Biscuit, even though he was certainly not a saint, the man never acted inappropriately. His sexuality was never at issue. Biscuit had acquired for them, in good faith and below cost, something they needed and he was told they would pay him the next day. Needless to say, after the big freakout at the show, when we all got back home, things were now uncomfortable and stressful for Beth and I. Even though we did not agree with their views we wanted to stay respectful to their beliefs for the rest of their stay with us. It most likely would have been left at that, but the next morning, while I was at work and Beth had stayed home from work, MDC came over and started it all back up again. Beth called me at work and was really upset. By the time I got home there was a yelling match going on in our little front yard. The subjects ranged from women needing to be at home, barefoot, cooking, and having babies to holy religious sermons. EVERYONE but Earl was involved not just HR . Beth was in the kitchen in tears and I had to go out and put my (shaky) foot down to stop the whole ordeal. MDC left but it still took the Bad Brains several hours to leave. We still were courteous to them, but Beth and I were both emotionally drained and the atmosphere was very uncomfortable by this point. We gave HR a foam pad for his bedroll and tried as best we could to help them speed up the process of going.
When they were headed out the door HR handed Beth a thick sealed envelope addressed to Biscuit, so we did not open it. I can believe the possibility that money was put into an envelope by one of the band members as the documentary states, but in the emotionally charged atmosphere of that afternoon, and after all we all had been through the night before, I have a very hard time believing that there was ever a friendly message on the envelope as depicted in the documentary's animation. We certainly did not receive anything saying "thank you, Bad Brains."
When they finally left, we discovered that they had defaced an historic poster in our bathroom that had actually gotten Raul's (an original Austin punk club) shut down. They could have easily told me it offended them and I would have covered or removed it. I also saw that the big 3d oversized post card of the pope that I was using in a painting I was working on was now gone. That escalated the whole affair for Beth and I as we had NEVER had any band take or deface something of ours. The next day when we gave Biscuit the sealed envelope that was supposed to contain the money he was owed, there was no money. There was a multi-paged letter/sermon/rant that ended with "???may you burn in hell, the Bad Brains." When word got out, sides were taken, as all the zines reported on the incidents and then printed letters from readers. They stressed the gay issue rather than the whole disrespectful way we all had been treated. The Big Boys started getting mail from all over, pro and con on the gay issue even though we had never made a band issue of Biscuit being gay because, IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE. A year or so later we were finally sent the money owed by one of their crew.
As hard as they try to downplay it, it really was a huge deal at that time in the DIY community. Other bands even wrote songs about it. Chris is right, it was their Altamont and became a big part of their history and some say downfall. Like Ken Burns documentaries, the Bad Brains one will become a truth and the Austin incident will become a small footnote.
Just goes to show you that history is indeed his story. I'm just adding a footnote of my own for the record.
Since there is no way to answer this question objectively, it should be answered subjectively. Using stats like years active and # of hits is just an attempt to make it objective.
I say screw all that. What about quality of songs (writing and performance)? Surely the greatest US rock song must have been released by the greatest US rock band, no?
Also, where does image come into play?
Isnt "Performance" and "Writing" the same STATS as "image" and "popularity".
Cant one like a SONG with out seeing the band on a record cover/magazine/TV or seeing them perform live?
I'm surprised there aren't more calls for CCR. Dudes voice was the ish and the songs were just soooo good.
cosign.
Back to "Jump", they played this song live this year for there 2012 tour, when I saw it played it was total weaksauce because they had the keyboard part recorded/sampled in. I was hoping they would atleast roll out a keyboard/synth for the part but they didn't. Everybody in the crowd was looking around for the keyboardist on stage to no avail.
Since there is no way to answer this question objectively, it should be answered subjectively. Using stats like years active and # of hits is just an attempt to make it objective.
I say screw all that. What about quality of songs (writing and performance)? Surely the greatest US rock song must have been released by the greatest US rock band, no?
Also, where does image come into play?
Isnt "Performance" and "Writing" the same STATS as "image" and "popularity".
Cant one like a SONG with out seeing the band on a record cover/magazine/TV or seeing them perform live?
I think you can like it, but I think that's about as far as you can go without some kind of image to attach to it, even if said image is just your own speculation based on something you read or heard somewhere or something you think you read or heard somewhere or some name on the back cover or some illegible thumbprint-sized band photo on the j-card or whatever. Who doesn't want their favorite artists to exist in three dimensions?
I think Otis is off-base, but at the same time, I don't think "image" and "popularity" are dirty words.
You don't think Bad Brains owe a great deal to image? Has there ever been an important band anywhere that was truly faceless?
You misunderstood me. I meant that image is one of the subjective categories that should be factored in because quality of image is totally based on opinion, just like quality of songwriting and performance.
Popularity is definitely more objective (but not completely) and should count less. Years active is completely objective and should count even less.
Arguing over opinions and favorites is stupid, but can be great fun.
Making something fresh and exciting using hackneyed three chord progressions with the occasional fourth for colour takes something special.
A lot to do with the vocal top line plus harmonics from overdriven amps, and sure there wasn't "art" involved, but the lucky happenstance of it all was magical.
Since there is no way to answer this question objectively, it should be answered subjectively. Using stats like years active and # of hits is just an attempt to make it objective.
I say screw all that. What about quality of songs (writing and performance)? Surely the greatest US rock song must have been released by the greatest US rock band, no?
Also, where does image come into play?
Isnt "Performance" and "Writing" the same STATS as "image" and "popularity".
Cant one like a SONG with out seeing the band on a record cover/magazine/TV or seeing them perform live?
I think you can like it, but I think that's about as far as you can go without some kind of image to attach to it, even if said image is just your own speculation based on something you read or heard somewhere or something you think you read or heard somewhere or some name on the back cover or some illegible thumbprint-sized band photo on the j-card or whatever. Who doesn't want their favorite artists to exist in three dimensions?
I think Otis is off-base, but at the same time, I don't think "image" and "popularity" are dirty words.
You don't think Bad Brains owe a great deal to image? Has there ever been an important band anywhere that was truly faceless?
I didnt get to see what Big Daddy Kane looked like for a while after I first heard Rhymin With Biz.
I knew dude could rap. And the song was fresh. All the other STATS came later.
Some joints just came on the radio and they didnt have a video, i didnt have their album or saw whomever on Soul Train, Solid Gold or Tiger Beat.
I didnt know Teena Marie was white, but the SONG was damn good.
Making something fresh and exciting using hackneyed three chord progressions with the occasional fourth for colour takes something special.
A lot to do with the vocal top line plus harmonics from overdriven amps, and sure there wasn't "art" involved, but the lucky happenstance of it all was magical.
But lets keep shit real. When some one says songwriting, dudes are talking about some other shit.
I understand the merit of Punk, but u know they arent the default artists when dudes say songwriting.
Comments
You have ears and you don't like this???
did anyone shout out the Beach Boys itb?
btw Van Halen are dutch. By way of cali.
"It's got what it takes - so tell me whyyyy cant this be looove" /synth rock face/
there, fixed
One of my spawn obsesses over that video and I'm proud to say that at 5 years old hes taking after DLR, with a vengeance, splits, and all.
Ive had a hard time convincing his mother how excellent a role model Lee Roth really is. Loving life, irrepressible, enterprising, etc etc
And here in a nutshell is why the majority of britfudes here will not ride.
We generally recoil from this, it's all a bit sus and not borne out by life's disappointments.
Think I want my rockers a bit more weather beaten, done down by bad women and hard luck, brooding but defiant.
The whole "we can do this" stuff sucks big time in our psyche.
Generally, natch.
Sayin
Those are the traits found in blues artists.
And most UK rock is blues based
BINGO
www.wevl.org
The weren't around long enough to be GOAT
massive mainstream appeal
critical praise
shit ton of hits
legendary touring history
I think all this is primary criteria for GOAT... more so than influence and what sounds best today.
Am I wrong?
Bad Brains.
Do u need everyone to like u to be important?
Yeah I totally hear ya, but I think popularity should be a huge factor.
Huge.
I mean as much as I dislike KISS (outside their first few records which are great) I think their popularity scores monster points for GOAT.
It doesn't seem fair but I think it's the way its gotta be.
Bad Brains. Damn. Any damn day over KISS... but unfortunately the masses haven't even heard of them.
I'm kind of thinking out loud here too, so... there's that. I just have always liked this topic.
I say screw all that. What about quality of songs (writing and performance)? Surely the greatest US rock song must have been released by the greatest US rock band, no?
Also, where does image come into play?
Popularity with the masses doesn't factor too high for me. If a band helped many many other bands be great, then they are (one of) the greatest.
(Bad Brains shaped my life, they are beyond the greatest, but they are a hardcore band)
You know when you are in sync with your friends on a lot of things, and the things you aren't, you can at least see/hear/understand it, even if it's not to your taste? I will never get the Van Halen appeal.
:weird:
Isnt "Performance" and "Writing" the same STATS as "image" and "popularity".
Cant one like a SONG with out seeing the band on a record cover/magazine/TV or seeing them perform live?
The Ramones songwriting???
cosign.
Back to "Jump", they played this song live this year for there 2012 tour, when I saw it played it was total weaksauce because they had the keyboard part recorded/sampled in. I was hoping they would atleast roll out a keyboard/synth for the part but they didn't. Everybody in the crowd was looking around for the keyboardist on stage to no avail.
I think Otis is off-base, but at the same time, I don't think "image" and "popularity" are dirty words.
You don't think Bad Brains owe a great deal to image? Has there ever been an important band anywhere that was truly faceless?
Popularity is definitely more objective (but not completely) and should count less. Years active is completely objective and should count even less.
Arguing over opinions and favorites is stupid, but can be great fun.
CCR!!
Absolutely, it's one of their main strengths. Very much in the Brill Building tradition with updated lyrical references.
A lot to do with the vocal top line plus harmonics from overdriven amps, and sure there wasn't "art" involved, but the lucky happenstance of it all was magical.
I didnt get to see what Big Daddy Kane looked like for a while after I first heard Rhymin With Biz.
I knew dude could rap. And the song was fresh. All the other STATS came later.
Some joints just came on the radio and they didnt have a video, i didnt have their album or saw whomever on Soul Train, Solid Gold or Tiger Beat.
I didnt know Teena Marie was white, but the SONG was damn good.
blah blah blah
But lets keep shit real. When some one says songwriting, dudes are talking about some other shit.
I understand the merit of Punk, but u know they arent the default artists when dudes say songwriting.