A friend of mine's family member is in the Secret Service. I would tell y'all some of the specific incidents involving race that she has told me, but I wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble.
Let's just say, it's true: George Bush doesn't care about Black people.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
by the way, i definitely had some professors at a couple different colleges who did not speak well and did have a hard time putting a coherent sentence together.
Me too. Some professors are downright unintelligible - usually those that are ESL. But still, Big Stacks isn't an Indian guy fresh off the boat where english is his second language - dude is a native American (as opposed to being Native American) with no speech impediments (that I know of). That's just some fucked up shit to say because I can't think of any other frame of reference people could be coming from.
stacks, sorry you're not here to discuss, but...
what about this as another frame of reference - holy shit this may blow your mind - that stacks is actually well-spoken. (does that offend you? ) i don't know him but from reading his posts, he comes off as intelligient, confident, and well-written. for example, his breakdown of the cognitive psych/sociological phenomenon above is clear and to the point. i wouldn't be surprised if he has similar traits in his speech. bottom line, as he describes the situation... someone said to stack's friend "you're well-spoken." someone asked him "where are you from?" i could imagine a situation where these comments could possibly be perceived as demeaning, but in this case, i think it's a far stretch. also, in my opinion (and please let's not get into a "what's more offensive" debate) the phrase "fresh off the boat" carries with it much worse connotations.
i wouldn't get into such detail about a brief moment in someone else's life if i didn't think this situation is representative of a bigger picture. i think it's wrong to overreact and potentially misinterpret someone's words or behavior and paint a negative picture about them. there's a lot of real racism in the world that we should be trying to put an end to:
Hey Mandrew,
I think Grafwritah is hitting the nail on the head. It's about context. The articulation skill of a Ph.D. delivering an opening address at the annual conference of a national professional organization should be a given. Apparently, it wasn't considered as such for my Black colleague (by his White peers). Feel me? Just like, why should one wonder where I'm from if I'm articulate when delivering a presentation. Should it matter? Probably not, but I'm willing to bet that they were surprised by my verbal skills (it's a MilwauKKKee thang, unfortunately). The major racial disparities in class and education here probably fueled the parents' preconceptions about me (but then again, I'm not from MilwauKKKee, either). I hope I cleared up my point some.
i got a question for you stacks. fuck what white folks think, what do black folks think about this? and i ask with this in mind. im here in LA. almost 15 years after the rodney king trial. and honestly, not much has changed. i remember feeling a sense that things were gonna change. that the african american community in southern california was unifying and galvanizing their goals and were in a place to get something, anything out of the government.
fast forward to today, and im asking what the fuck happened? sure, its tough to butt up against the US government. a largely white establishment. but public opinion was leaning more towards reform. towards the fair treatment of african-americans in southern california and all over the country. and they were thrown a few bones, but when you look around now, we might as well still be in 1992.
now, what im saying is, it is very easy to point the finger at the establishment. hell, im pointing my finger at them too. i am not defending the decisions of this bush admin., but i also think it is the responsibility of the community that this effects most, to come together, really come together and make change. where are the leaders? kanye? i mean, its a start, but im just afraid that things will fall back into the normal patterns of american socio-economic slavery and in five years we're all right back where we started. no? thoughts?
by the way, i definitely had some professors at a couple different colleges who did not speak well and did have a hard time putting a coherent sentence together.
Me too. Some professors are downright unintelligible - usually those that are ESL. But still, Big Stacks isn't an Indian guy fresh off the boat where english is his second language - dude is a native American (as opposed to being Native American) with no speech impediments (that I know of). That's just some fucked up shit to say because I can't think of any other frame of reference people could be coming from.
stacks, sorry you're not here to discuss, but...
what about this as another frame of reference - holy shit this may blow your mind - that stacks is actually well-spoken. (does that offend you? ) i don't know him but from reading his posts, he comes off as intelligient, confident, and well-written. for example, his breakdown of the cognitive psych/sociological phenomenon above is clear and to the point. i wouldn't be surprised if he has similar traits in his speech. bottom line, as he describes the situation... someone said to stack's friend "you're well-spoken." someone asked him "where are you from?" i could imagine a situation where these comments could possibly be perceived as demeaning, but in this case, i think it's a far stretch. also, in my opinion (and please let's not get into a "what's more offensive" debate) the phrase "fresh off the boat" carries with it much worse connotations.
i wouldn't get into such detail about a brief moment in someone else's life if i didn't think this situation is representative of a bigger picture. i think it's wrong to overreact and potentially misinterpret someone's words or behavior and paint a negative picture about them. there's a lot of real racism in the world that we should be trying to put an end to:
Hey Mandrew,
I think Grafwritah is hitting the nail on the head. It's about context. The articulation skill of a Ph.D. delivering an opening address at the annual conference of a national professional organization should be a given. Apparently, it wasn't considered as such for my Black colleague (by his White peers). Feel me? Just like, why should one wonder where I'm from if I'm articulate when delivering a presentation. Should it matter? Probably not, but I'm willing to bet that they were surprised by my verbal skills (it's a MilwauKKKee thang, unfortunately). The major racial disparities in class and education here probably fueled the parents' preconceptions about me (but then again, I'm not from MilwauKKKee, either). I hope I cleared up my point some.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
stacks, i'm mostly concerned that you have preconceptions about the same people who you think have preconceptions about you (!). i was thinking about this last night a little bit and our last two presidents came to mind. if you think that a college professor is expected to have a good speaking skills, then the president's voice should produce orgasms in all whose ears behold it. but that's not the case with our current bastard at the helm. on the other hand, clinton was famous for his great oral skills ( ). i don't think there's much of a difference when someone you address from a position of authority compliments you and when someone compliments clinton.
i'm at work, so this was lazily written, but you get the point.
Leaders are vastly overrated. In school we are teach things happen because of leaders. In reality it is individuals, working together who make change.
Martin Luther King was a great leader. Rosa Parks was not a leader, Thurgood Marshall was not a leader, Emmitt Till was not a leader, Elizabeth Eckford was not a leader. These were a tiny number of famous people who helped end segregation. But not leaders. Many more did just as much, but we don't know their names.
In school we teach that it was Martin Luther King who did it all, but that's not the way it happened. I am sure the same is true for every other historic event. If Churchill was such a great leader and defeated Hitler, why did millions of soldiers have to die?
My point is; it was great that Kanye spoke out, but now you and I need to speak out. If we wait for someone to lead us we will all die.
i see your point but id have to disagree. leaders are nothing more than figureheads that regular folks like you and me can gather around and point to and say "not in _____'s name" or whatever political slogan you want. rodney king was most definately not a leader but, like my point, he was definately a figure that people could rally around and point to and say "this shit has got to stop".
and vice versa, it is obvious that bush is not a leader. but he is definately someone we can all point to and say "this fucken monkey is ruining our country!" i think you and i and a bunch of other folks know that it is not all his fault. but he is that frontman that will carry the weight of all this shit upon his shoulders when in reality it is the individuals that are to blame. if anyone, bush will probably agree with your ideas that leaders are highly overrated because it will take the burden off of him. no?
i have done my part in the past, will do my part now, and will continue to do it in the future. but i still think someone needs to step up and be that figurehead.
i have done my part in the past, will do my part now, and will continue to do it in the future. but i still think someone needs to step up and be that figurehead.
The leader has to lead, but he can't do shit on his own. The Rodney King thing didn't change anything. People have to want to support that leader. They have to want to rally around an event. What will be the most significant social change to come out of the N.O tragedy? Some rapper will go triple platinum? Big fucking deal. He'll be on the cover of some rag. Tens of thousands will be dead & George Bush will still be president. When the power comes back on, folks will turn on their televisions & zone out. Maybe some dude in FEMA will lose his job. He'll get another cushy post somewhere else & melt into obscurity. No prison terms (at least for the people responsible. Watch some poor dude get jailed for "looting" food). No reforms. Just a few rousing soundbites from celebrities to keep the cattle happy.
i have done my part in the past, will do my part now, and will continue to do it in the future. but i still think someone needs to step up and be that figurehead.
The leader has to lead, but he can't do shit on his own. The Rodney King thing didn't change anything. People have to want to support that leader. They have to want to rally around an event. What will be the most significant social change to come out of the N.O tragedy? Some rapper will go triple platinum? Big fucking deal. He'll be on the cover of some rag. Tens of thousands will be dead & George Bush will still be president. When the power comes back on, folks will turn on their televisions & zone out. Maybe some dude in FEMA will lose his job. He'll get another cushy post somewhere else & melt into obscurity. No prison terms (at least for the people responsible. Watch some poor dude get jailed for "looting" food). No reforms. Just a few rousing soundbites from celebrities to keep the cattle happy.
I think it???s two different things. Figureheads are more symbols, puppets, they represent ______ for the masses and their power is in name only. Leaders call the shots, set the path and folks follow.
What LWolf is saying is so on point. NO is a perfect example of bullshit ???leadership?????? everyone waited for someone to take charge and nobody did and look at it now. If we get too used to following and something like this happens, will we know how the fuck to react? Heatrock is a great example of people working together to make things happen. Bam came up with the idea and we all took charge and did good.
I guess the best leaders are not really leaders - they just inspire folks to act on their own as opposed to follow.
ok. wait a minute there HAZ. im trying to understand what youre saying here. are you saying that folks didnt want to rally behind the whole rodney king incident? cuz if so, let me tell you. im a blue blooded west coast rider til i die type of dude. if it aint cali it aint shit. sorry if that offends, but its true. i will probably never leave this state. but i can tell you that when that shit went down, i know i was ready to do some shit. i know that LA proper was burning and it wasnt just so that folks could get free gameboys and vcrs. motherfuckers were PISSED and there was indeed something bubbling in the air. like shit was gonna get done. shit needed to get done. i was a symptom of that incident as i got into social work cuz i wanted to do something. of course, i was living in the bubble known as the bay area where relations are much better and i guess i projected that on socal. but there are still issues with the police down here. corruption, ties with gangs, racial profiling. killing babies. hell, i got pulled over twice just cuz i drove a late model chrysler with a shaved head. so i agree that nothing has changed, but from the inside, it most definately felt like folks were gonna do some shit out here. and then it was satiated with a small stack of cash and some empty promises. and now things are back to normal. i cant talk about 1962 cuz i wasnt there, but 1992 california was ready to explode.
I think it???s two different things. Figureheads are more symbols, puppets, they represent ______ for the masses and their power is in name only. Leaders call the shots, set the path and folks follow.
What LWolf is saying is so on point. NO is a perfect example of bullshit ???leadership?????? everyone waited for someone to take charge and nobody did and look at it now. If we get too used to following and something like this happens, will we know how the fuck to react? Heatrock is a great example of people working together to make things happen. Bam came up with the idea and we all took charge and did good.
I guess the best leaders are not really leaders - they just inspire folks to act on their own as opposed to follow.
ok. so let me rephrase my initial question. where is that inspirational character? i was once inspired by such an event and now im jaded cuz everyone forgot to care.
I think it???s two different things. Figureheads are more symbols, puppets, they represent ______ for the masses and their power is in name only. Leaders call the shots, set the path and folks follow.
What LWolf is saying is so on point. NO is a perfect example of bullshit ???leadership?????? everyone waited for someone to take charge and nobody did and look at it now. If we get too used to following and something like this happens, will we know how the fuck to react? Heatrock is a great example of people working together to make things happen. Bam came up with the idea and we all took charge and did good.
I guess the best leaders are not really leaders - they just inspire folks to act on their own as opposed to follow.
ok. so let me rephrase my initial question. where is that inspirational character? i was once inspired by such an event and now im jaded cuz everyone forgot to care.
shiggy - i don't know you other than what i read here. you seem like you're a good person to me. no matter how many weird things you say (not too many in my opinion), that you basically care about things being good for everyone. you also seem to be, i'm sorry for the corny i'm about to serve, an independant thinker. maybe if there's nothing/no one inspiring you, you gotta say fuck it - im going to find my own way to get pumped and go out and get shit done.
ok. wait a minute there HAZ. im trying to understand what youre saying here. are you saying that folks didnt want to rally behind the whole rodney king incident? cuz if so, let me tell you. im a blue blooded west coast rider til i die type of dude. if it aint cali it aint shit. sorry if that offends, but its true. i will probably never leave this state. but i can tell you that when that shit went down, i know i was ready to do some shit. i know that LA proper was burning and it wasnt just so that folks could get free gameboys and vcrs. motherfuckers were PISSED and there was indeed something bubbling in the air. like shit was gonna get done. shit needed to get done. i was a symptom of that incident as i got into social work cuz i wanted to do something. of course, i was living in the bubble known as the bay area where relations are much better and i guess i projected that on socal. but there are still issues with the police down here. corruption, ties with gangs, racial profiling. killing babies. hell, i got pulled over twice just cuz i drove a late model chrysler with a shaved head. so i agree that nothing has changed, but from the inside, it most definately felt like folks were gonna do some shit out here. and then it was satiated with a small stack of cash and some empty promises. and now things are back to normal. i cant talk about 1962 cuz i wasnt there, but 1992 california was ready to explode.
I saw the Rodney King incident as something that got people up in arms - it looked like a breakthrough was on the horizon & something was going to change - People were outraged & they were in the streets. My impression was that they had their fill & weren't going to put up with anymore bullshit. Then, the ingination somehow petered out, like a balloon that lost its air. Not long later, the status quo was a strong as it ever was. Nothing changed. California might have been ready to explode in '92, but the biggest social change that came out of the tragedy of the Rodney King affair was that it probably inspired the television series "Cops".
A friend of mine's family member is in the Secret Service. I would tell y'all some of the specific incidents involving race that she has told me, but I wouldn't want to get anyone in trouble.
Let's just say, it's true: George Bush doesn't care about Black people.
I think it???s two different things. Figureheads are more symbols, puppets, they represent ______ for the masses and their power is in name only. Leaders call the shots, set the path and folks follow.
What LWolf is saying is so on point. NO is a perfect example of bullshit ???leadership?????? everyone waited for someone to take charge and nobody did and look at it now. If we get too used to following and something like this happens, will we know how the fuck to react? Heatrock is a great example of people working together to make things happen. Bam came up with the idea and we all took charge and did good.
I guess the best leaders are not really leaders - they just inspire folks to act on their own as opposed to follow.
ok. so let me rephrase my initial question. where is that inspirational character? i was once inspired by such an event and now im jaded cuz everyone forgot to care.
shiggy - i don't know you other than what i read here. you seem like you're a good person to me. no matter how many weird things you say (not too many in my opinion), that you basically care about things being good for everyone. you also seem to be, i'm sorry for the corny i'm about to serve, an independant thinker. maybe if there's nothing/no one inspiring you, you gotta say fuck it - im going to find my own way to get pumped and go out and get shit done.
why thank you missbassie. but i think we crossed wires once again. my question was not concerning myself. it was concerning the black community at large in regards to the apparent racism and classism in the relief efforts to NO. i am an outsider to that population. i was asking stacks how he, as an american of african descent, feels the black community will respond to these injustices. does he think they will they move forward and make gains, or will they fall back in the same way that the rodney king injustice played out.
now i realize there are various factors to both of these events that did and will contribute to the outcome. media being one of them. political angling being another. and im sure there are more. i am asking, who in that community can/will take initiative, like a b*mbouche? who is savvy enough to navigate the community through the language and codes of media and politics? is there such a person? and will the community stand up and back that person? sure, it is helpful that other ethnicities support this endeavor, but let's be honest. aint no chinaman gonna be speaking to the african-american population and inspiring them to do something about their situation.
I think it???s two different things. Figureheads are more symbols, puppets, they represent ______ for the masses and their power is in name only. Leaders call the shots, set the path and folks follow.
What LWolf is saying is so on point. NO is a perfect example of bullshit ???leadership?????? everyone waited for someone to take charge and nobody did and look at it now. If we get too used to following and something like this happens, will we know how the fuck to react? Heatrock is a great example of people working together to make things happen. Bam came up with the idea and we all took charge and did good.
I guess the best leaders are not really leaders - they just inspire folks to act on their own as opposed to follow.
ok. so let me rephrase my initial question. where is that inspirational character? i was once inspired by such an event and now im jaded cuz everyone forgot to care.
shiggy - i don't know you other than what i read here. you seem like you're a good person to me. no matter how many weird things you say (not too many in my opinion), that you basically care about things being good for everyone. you also seem to be, i'm sorry for the corny i'm about to serve, an independant thinker. maybe if there's nothing/no one inspiring you, you gotta say fuck it - im going to find my own way to get pumped and go out and get shit done.
why thank you missbassie. but i think we crossed wires once again. my question was not concerning myself. it was concerning the black community at large in regards to the apparent racism and classism in the relief efforts to NO. i am an outsider to that population. i was asking stacks how he, as an american of african descent, feels the black community will respond to these injustices. does he think they will they move forward and make gains, or will they fall back in the same way that the rodney king injustice played out.
now i realize there are various factors to both of these events that did and will contribute to the outcome. media being one of them. political angling being another. and im sure there are more. i am asking, who in that community can/will take initiative, like a b*mbouche? who is savvy enough to navigate the community through the language and codes of media and politics? is there such a person?[/b] and will the community stand up and back that person? sure, it is helpful that other ethnicities support this endeavor, but let's be honest. aint no chinaman gonna be speaking to the african-american population and inspiring them to do something about their situation.
my answer is that that person is everyone and themselves. waiting around for someone to come around and show them how and tell them how is not that empowering. i think this can apply to a lot of groups, not just the african-american population.
I think it???s two different things. Figureheads are more symbols, puppets, they represent ______ for the masses and their power is in name only. Leaders call the shots, set the path and folks follow.
What LWolf is saying is so on point. NO is a perfect example of bullshit ???leadership?????? everyone waited for someone to take charge and nobody did and look at it now. If we get too used to following and something like this happens, will we know how the fuck to react? Heatrock is a great example of people working together to make things happen. Bam came up with the idea and we all took charge and did good.
I guess the best leaders are not really leaders - they just inspire folks to act on their own as opposed to follow.
ok. so let me rephrase my initial question. where is that inspirational character? i was once inspired by such an event and now im jaded cuz everyone forgot to care.
shiggy - i don't know you other than what i read here. you seem like you're a good person to me. no matter how many weird things you say (not too many in my opinion), that you basically care about things being good for everyone. you also seem to be, i'm sorry for the corny i'm about to serve, an independant thinker. maybe if there's nothing/no one inspiring you, you gotta say fuck it - im going to find my own way to get pumped and go out and get shit done.
why thank you missbassie. but i think we crossed wires once again. my question was not concerning myself. it was concerning the black community at large in regards to the apparent racism and classism in the relief efforts to NO. i am an outsider to that population. i was asking stacks how he, as an american of african descent, feels the black community will respond to these injustices. does he think they will they move forward and make gains, or will they fall back in the same way that the rodney king injustice played out.
now i realize there are various factors to both of these events that did and will contribute to the outcome. media being one of them. political angling being another. and im sure there are more. i am asking, who in that community can/will take initiative, like a b*mbouche? who is savvy enough to navigate the community through the language and codes of media and politics? is there such a person?[/b] and will the community stand up and back that person? sure, it is helpful that other ethnicities support this endeavor, but let's be honest. aint no chinaman gonna be speaking to the african-american population and inspiring them to do something about their situation.
my answer is that that person is everyone and themselves. waiting around for someone to come around and show them how and tell them how is not that empowering. i think this can apply to a lot of groups, not just the african-american population.
i agree. but what is the likelihood of that happening? i cannt speak on that because i am not a part of that community. and i know this is applicable in all communities, but this event, after all, is a black/white issue. latinos and asians are pretty much outside of that equation. and even if we were in the mix, i believe we would side with the "have nots" aka blacks. this is why i am curious. it does not directly concern me, but in the larger scope of things, it most definately does.
why thank you missbassie. but i think we crossed wires once again. my question was not concerning myself. it was concerning the black community at large in regards to the apparent racism and classism in the relief efforts to NO. i am an outsider to that population. i was asking stacks how he, as an american of african descent, feels the black community will respond to these injustices. does he think they will they move forward and make gains, or will they fall back in the same way that the rodney king injustice played out.
now i realize there are various factors to both of these events that did and will contribute to the outcome. media being one of them. political angling being another. and im sure there are more. i am asking, who in that community can/will take initiative, like a b*mbouche? who is savvy enough to navigate the community through the language and codes of media and politics? is there such a person?[/b] and will the community stand up and back that person? sure, it is helpful that other ethnicities support this endeavor, but let's be honest. aint no chinaman gonna be speaking to the african-american population and inspiring them to do something about their situation.
my answer is that that person is everyone and themselves. waiting around for someone to come around and show them how and tell them how is not that empowering. i think this can apply to a lot of groups, not just the african-american population.
i agree. but what is the likelihood of that happening? i cannt speak on that because i am not a part of that community. and i know this is applicable in all communities, but this event, after all, is a black/white issue. latinos and asians are pretty much outside of that equation. and even if we were in the mix, i believe we would side with the "have nots" aka blacks. this is why i am curious. it does not directly concern me, but in the larger scope of things, it most definately does.
well, you're right. looking around, the likelihood doesn't seem that great. but it's not like leaders haven't been or aren't in the mix, either. all kinds of people are busting their ass everyday, trying to get things right and teach people to set things right in their own lives...and that's not really changing things enough for us to feel hopeful or to prevent the fuckery of last week.
i don't know the answer.
in this specific case, the best thing would be for all the refugees to get back on their feet and then say, "this country is not going to get away with treating me like i don't mean shit" I don't know, the possibilites are endless: lobbying, voting and/or running for office and/or getting schooled and suing every level of government for what they did and didn't do and/or people starting their own schools...on and on. i know all this is waaaay easier said than done. but i just don't see any easy way to get things to even remotely close to where they should be.
like telling minority children they wont amount to shit while your in a teacher/ counselor position?
GOD THIS THREAD IS PISSING ME OFF. Fuckers want to posture themselves and throw out the truth.
Fuck it I got more to say but I'll just get more and more heated
ARRRRRGH!
oh brother. my boyfriends back.
well first off they werent minority children, they were minority ex-offender emancipated youth and teenage adults.
second, youre goddamn right and i'll do it again. what? should i have told them that if they put their minds to it they can accomplish anything in this country? fill em up with even more lies? i was truthful to my students, and as a "teacher/counselor" or what my card said "case manager", that is about as good as you can be. but you seem to know better what with your worldly experiences and all, you tell me how to run it.
like telling minority children they wont amount to shit while your in a teacher/ counselor position?
GOD THIS THREAD IS PISSING ME OFF. Fuckers want to posture themselves and throw out the truth.
Fuck it I got more to say but I'll just get more and more heated
ARRRRRGH!
well first off they werent minority children, they were minority ex-offender emancipated youth and teenage adults.
second, youre goddamn right and i'll do it again. what? should i have told them that if they put their minds to it they can accomplish anything in this country? fill em up with even more lies? i was truthful[/b] to my students, and as a "teacher/counselor" or what my card said "case manager", that is about as good as you can be. but you seem to know better what with your worldly experiences and all, you tell me how to run it.
I'll tell you one thing I won't preach about how we need change and how its possible and at the same time tell the youth how hopeless their lives are. Good job putting these young people in their place. If only more people in a position of power and respect would tell young america how pointless it is to do anything and how they should be complacent and bitchy instead.
No need in giving people the power of hope and acheivement. Theres comfort in keeping everything status quo.
And a major point your '92 riots thing glanced over is that while you were "identifying" with the black people out there looting your Asian herritage would of made you more of a target than just about anyone. The black vs. Asian thing was a major major issue in LA. Latasha Harlens shooting at the hands of Korean shop owner over a carton of orange juice was just months prior to the riot. Korean shop owners were getting their shit torched down because they were running liquor stores in the black community.
But seeing as you were 500 miles away and I was living in Los Angeles I'll take your thoughts on the riots over the truth I saw with my eyes
asians are pretty much outside of that equation. and even if we were in the mix, i believe we would side with the "have nots" aka blacks.
history has proven this to be very false (asians siding with blacks).....and to be quite honest the divide between latinos and blacks is becoming more apparent these days....
asians are pretty much outside of that equation. and even if we were in the mix, i believe we would side with the "have nots" aka blacks.
history has proven this to be very false (asians siding with blacks).....and to be quite honest the divide between latinos and blacks is becoming more apparent these days....
thank you... i'm outta this thread
excellent point, and this is exactly what I was going to say. and before this talk gets too bitter I'm following J*rmel away from this thread
Y'all go back to pretending that the black better identified with the asians and that the whiteman is the source of all racial tension
Comments
Hey Mandrew,
I think Grafwritah is hitting the nail on the head. It's about context. The articulation skill of a Ph.D. delivering an opening address at the annual conference of a national professional organization should be a given. Apparently, it wasn't considered as such for my Black colleague (by his White peers). Feel me? Just like, why should one wonder where I'm from if I'm articulate when delivering a presentation. Should it matter? Probably not, but I'm willing to bet that they were surprised by my verbal skills (it's a MilwauKKKee thang, unfortunately). The major racial disparities in class and education here probably fueled the parents' preconceptions about me (but then again, I'm not from MilwauKKKee, either). I hope I cleared up my point some.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
fast forward to today, and im asking what the fuck happened? sure, its tough to butt up against the US government. a largely white establishment. but public opinion was leaning more towards reform. towards the fair treatment of african-americans in southern california and all over the country. and they were thrown a few bones, but when you look around now, we might as well still be in 1992.
now, what im saying is, it is very easy to point the finger at the establishment. hell, im pointing my finger at them too. i am not defending the decisions of this bush admin., but i also think it is the responsibility of the community that this effects most, to come together, really come together and make change. where are the leaders? kanye? i mean, its a start, but im just afraid that things will fall back into the normal patterns of american socio-economic slavery and in five years we're all right back where we started. no? thoughts?
stacks,
i'm mostly concerned that you have preconceptions about the same people who you think have preconceptions about you (!).
i was thinking about this last night a little bit and our last two presidents came to mind. if you think that a college professor is expected to have a good speaking skills, then the president's voice should produce orgasms in all whose ears behold it. but that's not the case with our current bastard at the helm. on the other hand, clinton was famous for his great oral skills (
i don't think there's much of a difference when someone you address from a position of authority compliments you and when someone compliments clinton.
i'm at work, so this was lazily written, but you get the point.
oh wait, thats really where I am.
Leaders are vastly overrated. In school we are teach things happen because of leaders. In reality it is individuals, working together who make change.
Martin Luther King was a great leader. Rosa Parks was not a leader, Thurgood Marshall was not a leader, Emmitt Till was not a leader, Elizabeth Eckford was not a leader. These were a tiny number of famous people who helped end segregation. But not leaders. Many more did just as much, but we don't know their names.
In school we teach that it was Martin Luther King who did it all, but that's not the way it happened. I am sure the same is true for every other historic event. If Churchill was such a great leader and defeated Hitler, why did millions of soldiers have to die?
My point is; it was great that Kanye spoke out, but now you and I need to speak out. If we wait for someone to lead us we will all die.
Dan
best thing i've read in a while.
and vice versa, it is obvious that bush is not a leader. but he is definately someone we can all point to and say "this fucken monkey is ruining our country!" i think you and i and a bunch of other folks know that it is not all his fault. but he is that frontman that will carry the weight of all this shit upon his shoulders when in reality it is the individuals that are to blame. if anyone, bush will probably agree with your ideas that leaders are highly overrated because it will take the burden off of him. no?
i have done my part in the past, will do my part now, and will continue to do it in the future. but i still think someone needs to step up and be that figurehead.
The leader has to lead, but he can't do shit on his own. The Rodney King thing didn't change anything. People have to want to support that leader. They have to want to rally around an event. What will be the most significant social change to come out of the N.O tragedy? Some rapper will go triple platinum? Big fucking deal. He'll be on the cover of some rag. Tens of thousands will be dead & George Bush will still be president. When the power comes back on, folks will turn on their televisions & zone out. Maybe some dude in FEMA will lose his job. He'll get another cushy post somewhere else & melt into obscurity. No prison terms (at least for the people responsible. Watch some poor dude get jailed for "looting" food). No reforms. Just a few rousing soundbites from celebrities to keep the cattle happy.
this is what i think will happen
What LWolf is saying is so on point. NO is a perfect example of bullshit ???leadership?????? everyone waited for someone to take charge and nobody did and look at it now. If we get too used to following and something like this happens, will we know how the fuck to react? Heatrock is a great example of people working together to make things happen. Bam came up with the idea and we all took charge and did good.
I guess the best leaders are not really leaders - they just inspire folks to act on their own as opposed to follow.
ok. so let me rephrase my initial question. where is that inspirational character? i was once inspired by such an event and now im jaded cuz everyone forgot to care.
shiggy - i don't know you other than what i read here. you seem like you're a good person to me. no matter how many weird things you say (not too many in my opinion), that you basically care about things being good for everyone. you also seem to be, i'm sorry for the corny i'm about to serve, an independant thinker. maybe if there's nothing/no one inspiring you, you gotta say fuck it - im going to find my own way to get pumped and go out and get shit done.
I saw the Rodney King incident as something that got people up in arms - it looked like a breakthrough was on the horizon & something was going to change - People were outraged & they were in the streets. My impression was that they had their fill & weren't going to put up with anymore bullshit. Then, the ingination somehow petered out, like a balloon that lost its air. Not long later, the status quo was a strong as it ever was. Nothing changed. California might have been ready to explode in '92, but the biggest social change that came out of the tragedy of the Rodney King affair was that it probably inspired the television series "Cops".
Peace
h
do tell.
why thank you missbassie. but i think we crossed wires once again. my question was not concerning myself. it was concerning the black community at large in regards to the apparent racism and classism in the relief efforts to NO. i am an outsider to that population. i was asking stacks how he, as an american of african descent, feels the black community will respond to these injustices. does he think they will they move forward and make gains, or will they fall back in the same way that the rodney king injustice played out.
now i realize there are various factors to both of these events that did and will contribute to the outcome. media being one of them. political angling being another. and im sure there are more. i am asking, who in that community can/will take initiative, like a b*mbouche? who is savvy enough to navigate the community through the language and codes of media and politics? is there such a person? and will the community stand up and back that person? sure, it is helpful that other ethnicities support this endeavor, but let's be honest. aint no chinaman gonna be speaking to the african-american population and inspiring them to do something about their situation.
my answer is that that person is everyone and themselves. waiting around for someone to come around and show them how and tell them how is not that empowering. i think this can apply to a lot of groups, not just the african-american population.
i agree. but what is the likelihood of that happening? i cannt speak on that because i am not a part of that community. and i know this is applicable in all communities, but this event, after all, is a black/white issue. latinos and asians are pretty much outside of that equation. and even if we were in the mix, i believe we would side with the "have nots" aka blacks. this is why i am curious. it does not directly concern me, but in the larger scope of things, it most definately does.
well, you're right. looking around, the likelihood doesn't seem that great. but it's not like leaders haven't been or aren't in the mix, either. all kinds of people are busting their ass everyday, trying to get things right and teach people to set things right in their own lives...and that's not really changing things enough for us to feel hopeful or to prevent the fuckery of last week.
i don't know the answer.
in this specific case, the best thing would be for all the refugees to get back on their feet and then say, "this country is not going to get away with treating me like i don't mean shit" I don't know, the possibilites are endless: lobbying, voting and/or running for office and/or getting schooled and suing every level of government for what they did and didn't do and/or people starting their own schools...on and on. i know all this is waaaay easier said than done. but i just don't see any easy way to get things to even remotely close to where they should be.
GOD THIS THREAD IS PISSING ME OFF. Fuckers want to posture themselves and throw out the truth.
Fuck it I got more to say but I'll just get more and more heated
ARRRRRGH!
oh brother. my boyfriends back.
well first off they werent minority children, they were minority ex-offender emancipated youth and teenage adults.
second, youre goddamn right and i'll do it again. what? should i have told them that if they put their minds to it they can accomplish anything in this country? fill em up with even more lies? i was truthful to my students, and as a "teacher/counselor" or what my card said "case manager", that is about as good as you can be. but you seem to know better what with your worldly experiences and all, you tell me how to run it.
I'll tell you one thing I won't preach about how we need change and how its possible and at the same time tell the youth how hopeless their lives are. Good job putting these young people in their place. If only more people in a position of power and respect would tell young america how pointless it is to do anything and how they should be complacent and bitchy instead.
No need in giving people the power of hope and acheivement. Theres comfort in keeping everything status quo.
And a major point your '92 riots thing glanced over is that while you were "identifying" with the black people out there looting your Asian herritage would of made you more of a target than just about anyone. The black vs. Asian thing was a major major issue in LA. Latasha Harlens shooting at the hands of Korean shop owner over a carton of orange juice was just months prior to the riot. Korean shop owners were getting their shit torched down because they were running liquor stores in the black community.
But seeing as you were 500 miles away and I was living in Los Angeles I'll take your thoughts on the riots over the truth I saw with my eyes
history has proven this to be very false (asians siding with blacks).....and to be quite honest the divide between latinos and blacks is becoming more apparent these days....
thank you... i'm outta this thread
excellent point, and this is exactly what I was going to say. and before this talk gets too bitter I'm following J*rmel away from this thread
Y'all go back to pretending that the black better identified with the asians and that the whiteman is the source of all racial tension
too late!