Hmmm. Sad to see some of the opinions expressed in this thread. From the perspective of someone that has been living in the middle of this for a few days, some of what people have said on here is somewhat insensitive.
I'll try to keep my reply simple - this a horrific situation to witness, but in some ways one that is not totally unexpected. You can't generalise about the colour, creed or age of the people involved - it implicates lots of different types of people. First to be tried today was a 31 year old teacher from croyden who looted richer sounds. Times are tough and it's really hard to see people stoop this low, it's saddening and frightening because it makes you wonder what is next. What more can fail. Just hoping right now that it will end and some good will come of it.
All the people saying the police need to tool up and shoot these people - definitely not, the last thing this needs is to escalate, if you start shooting people they shoot back. there's enough sirens as it is - one every 30 seconds or so. We just need some peace right now and the ability to walk freely in our neighbourhoods.
While I'm here among--OK, amongst--the Brits, can anyone shed light on the Brixton riots in the early 80s? Timeline, causes, similarities to the current events? Thanks in advance.
Hopefully someone has explained that this isn't about party politics somewhere back there? No one is looting for or against something, they are just looting.
Hopefully someone has explained that this isn't about party politics somewhere back there? No one is looting for or against something, they are just looting.
Unfortunately the discussion has pretty much turned into racestrut.
Hopefully someone has explained that this isn't about party politics somewhere back there? No one is looting for or against something, they are just looting.
Yep.....This....
Rockadelic said:
What I've read here so far is that the rioters are not affiliated with any particular political stance or party and are just random criminals.
Hopefully someone has explained that this isn't about party politics somewhere back there? No one is looting for or against something, they are just looting.
Yep.....This....
Rockadelic said:
What I've read here so far is that the rioters are not affiliated with any particular political stance or party and are just random criminals.
No..not this..
No doubt there are riotters who are there just to riot, but there are also a lot of them who have enough reasons for them to riot. People aways wanna simplify shit, and put in one group altogether and then just blaim that shit ..
Some are fed up with how life is in the lesser parts of London, fucked up (financial) situations, cause fucked up households, cause fucked neighbourhoods , cause fucked up policing in their neighbourhood..and lots more where that came from..ots hard for people to understand who have lived a priviliged life and they look at this like what the fuck are these animals doing..
Like a dude said, you never hear from us, no matter how hard we cry..no we finally are heard..
for the stupids, wanting to jump on this.. im not saying i agree with lotting, just saying its noit that simple, and you cant just say, yeah they are all looting just for fun, just for the hell of it.. its rage built up.
"So much for the ???the poisonous fake idealism of ???human rights??? and ???sensitivity,?????? as John Derbyshire would have it ??? so much for the ???happy-clappy multicultural groveling and sick, weak, deracinated moral universalism??? ??? so much for the ???rotten fruit of a debased, sentimentalized Christianity???. The Muslims and Sikhs are standing against the rioters.
Multiculturalism is going to be hard mind you. Of course it is. But Derbyshire sees ghosts where none exist. He tells himself a comforting story about the riots, one that fits his worldview, and that???s enough. No evidence to the contrary matters.
These riots are not about the ???plague??? of multiculturalism. They???re not about brown-skinned people and immigrants sullying the greatness of the long-dead British empire. They???re about perceptions of unfair treatment at the hands of the police. Even if many of the rioters don???t realize it, these riots are about the violent and inherently chaotic War on Drugs.
When the state sows chaos, what can we expect in return? Law and order is not just about keeping things orderly any more than it is just about writing laws. It???s about justice. And when justice is absent from law and order, should it come as any surprise when all hell breaks loose?"
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
So you are saying they are ALL violent oppportunist thieves?
Also, cause you escaped the system doesnt mean everybody CAN or has what it takes to do so, also some have it much worse than others, and every person is different. What you do know is that there lots of people who have the need to escape from the shit..thats says more then you succeeding in the escape.
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
So you are saying they are ALL violent oppportunist thieves?
i find that very shortsighted..for the reasons i explained earlier..
Also, cause you escaped the system doesnt mean everybody CAN or has what it takes to do so, also some have it much worse than others, and every person is different. What you do know is that there lots of people who have the need to escape from the shit..thats says more then you succeeding in the escape.
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
spot on.
It seems purely criminal and voyeuristic in Manchester, The Telegraph has got video of Dominic Noonan one of this town's main gangsters walking through the riots directing kids where to go.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Those of you who were dying to see the police give these kids a good shoeing, get the lube and kleenex ready...
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
Bootstraps?
Hard Work?
Opportunity?
BAN!
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Speaking truth to power. The scheme this kid's talking about, Connexions, which helped him find a job, is one of the schemes the government closed down. If you reduce the legitimate opportunities that under-privileged youth have to better themselves, then you ought to at least be able to accept the possibility that the less-motivated amongst them are likely to resort to whatever opportunities present themselves.
The other guy is Boris Johnson, former Conservative MP and current Mayor Of London. Hizzoner is a former member of The Bullingdon Club, a notorious (and still active) dining and drinking club based at the University Of Oxford, whose trademark was to trash whichever restaurant they'd dined in at the end of each night. Also in the Bullingdon Club at the same time as Johnson was PM David Cameron and Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne (or Gideon Osborne, as he was known back then). These guys would always pay for the damage they caused, usually in cash - but then they could afford to. Moreover, a taste for unruly behaviour, criminal damage and a flagrant disregard for the property of others (small businesses in particular) hasn't proved much of an impediment to either Johnson, Cameron or Osborne (whose own father gave him his first job - there's your fucking bootstraps right there), so you have to wonder how anti-social "anti-social behaviour" actually is. What they never seemed to consider - and this is something they had in common with the rioters - was that someone still had to clear that shit up once they'd had their fun.
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
Bootstraps?
Hard Work?
Opportunity?
BAN!
Exactly. They should just get on their bikes and look for work, and keep looking until they find it.
So you are saying they are ALL violent oppportunist thieves?
i find that very shortsighted..for the reasons i explained earlier..
Ok, apart from the cunt in the beret with the rocking horse.
But amongst the rest?
There are a few fringe politcial groups in London with axes to grind (EDL and dem) who want a few facebook pics of them tooled up throwing a brick at the fuzz, or worse, exploiting the shade being thrown on the black youth.
Then there's the students like your man Charlie Gilmour and that twat in the brown Golas. "Fack, Tarquin, I tell you, I was facking there, maaaan."
But the hordes of soap-dodgers (I believe the collective noun is a "Scruff"), the rat-faced ones in full-on shoplifter uniform (black and white kids in shell suits w/ kecks tucked into socks)...? The ones filling their fucking boots and mugging the poor few honest souls unlucky enough to have to live near them? I know them too well.
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
Bootstraps?
Hard Work?
Opportunity?
BAN!
Exactly. They should just get on their bikes and look for work, and keep looking until they find it.
I did say I had put my Tebbit head on last week. But f*ck knows, they have actually got bikes.
There was fuck-all work going where I grew up other than dealing (not casino-R) or stacking shelves. I did try and stay local, but getting attacked by screwdriver-wielding scallies and my mum getting mugged the same week, round the back of the house, kind of took the shine off it. I mean, I did some things I am not proud of when I was a lot younger but not this shit. This shit is plainly not right.
"Consumerism relies upon people feeling disconnected from the world."
"Consumer society relies on your ability to participate in it."
Thanks
"The type of goods being looted seems peculiarly relevant: if they were going for bare necessities, I think one might incline towards sympathy. I could be wrong, but I don't get the impression that we're looking at people who are hungry. If they were going for more outlandish luxury, hitting Tiffany's and Gucci, they might seem more political, and thereby more respectable. Their achilles heel was in going for things they demonstrably want."
The sad thing is, when they get home with their new trainers and wide screen tv they are going to be just as miserable as they were before.
Comments
I'll try to keep my reply simple - this a horrific situation to witness, but in some ways one that is not totally unexpected. You can't generalise about the colour, creed or age of the people involved - it implicates lots of different types of people. First to be tried today was a 31 year old teacher from croyden who looted richer sounds. Times are tough and it's really hard to see people stoop this low, it's saddening and frightening because it makes you wonder what is next. What more can fail. Just hoping right now that it will end and some good will come of it.
Cleaning up afterwards: http://www.riotcleanup.com/
While I'm here among--OK, amongst--the Brits, can anyone shed light on the Brixton riots in the early 80s? Timeline, causes, similarities to the current events? Thanks in advance.
Hopefully someone has explained that this isn't about party politics somewhere back there? No one is looting for or against something, they are just looting.
Unfortunately the discussion has pretty much turned into racestrut.
Yep.....This....
No..not this..
No doubt there are riotters who are there just to riot, but there are also a lot of them who have enough reasons for them to riot. People aways wanna simplify shit, and put in one group altogether and then just blaim that shit ..
Some are fed up with how life is in the lesser parts of London, fucked up (financial) situations, cause fucked up households, cause fucked neighbourhoods , cause fucked up policing in their neighbourhood..and lots more where that came from..ots hard for people to understand who have lived a priviliged life and they look at this like what the fuck are these animals doing..
Like a dude said, you never hear from us, no matter how hard we cry..no we finally are heard..
for the stupids, wanting to jump on this.. im not saying i agree with lotting, just saying its noit that simple, and you cant just say, yeah they are all looting just for fun, just for the hell of it.. its rage built up.
Perfect!
I disagree. They are violent opportunist thieves. I am not saying it's impossible for these people to change, but the opportunity to do this humanely at this point has gone. They must therefore be mitigated by force.
The opportunity to escape this life is there. But it was too much like hard work for these people to take it. I speak as someone from this background who took it, not some middle-class urban pilgrim.
So you are saying they are ALL violent oppportunist thieves?
Also, cause you escaped the system doesnt mean everybody CAN or has what it takes to do so, also some have it much worse than others, and every person is different. What you do know is that there lots of people who have the need to escape from the shit..thats says more then you succeeding in the escape.
So you are saying they are ALL violent oppportunist thieves?
i find that very shortsighted..for the reasons i explained earlier..
Also, cause you escaped the system doesnt mean everybody CAN or has what it takes to do so, also some have it much worse than others, and every person is different. What you do know is that there lots of people who have the need to escape from the shit..thats says more then you succeeding in the escape.
spot on.
It seems purely criminal and voyeuristic in Manchester, The Telegraph has got video of Dominic Noonan one of this town's main gangsters walking through the riots directing kids where to go.
Bootstraps?
Hard Work?
Opportunity?
BAN!
The other guy is Boris Johnson, former Conservative MP and current Mayor Of London. Hizzoner is a former member of The Bullingdon Club, a notorious (and still active) dining and drinking club based at the University Of Oxford, whose trademark was to trash whichever restaurant they'd dined in at the end of each night. Also in the Bullingdon Club at the same time as Johnson was PM David Cameron and Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne (or Gideon Osborne, as he was known back then). These guys would always pay for the damage they caused, usually in cash - but then they could afford to. Moreover, a taste for unruly behaviour, criminal damage and a flagrant disregard for the property of others (small businesses in particular) hasn't proved much of an impediment to either Johnson, Cameron or Osborne (whose own father gave him his first job - there's your fucking bootstraps right there), so you have to wonder how anti-social "anti-social behaviour" actually is. What they never seemed to consider - and this is something they had in common with the rioters - was that someone still had to clear that shit up once they'd had their fun.
Exactly. They should just get on their bikes and look for work, and keep looking until they find it.
© Norman Tebbit (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsvideo/7858570/Norman-Tebbit-my-father-got-on-his-bike-to-look-for-a-job.html)
Ok, apart from the cunt in the beret with the rocking horse.
But amongst the rest?
There are a few fringe politcial groups in London with axes to grind (EDL and dem) who want a few facebook pics of them tooled up throwing a brick at the fuzz, or worse, exploiting the shade being thrown on the black youth.
Then there's the students like your man Charlie Gilmour and that twat in the brown Golas. "Fack, Tarquin, I tell you, I was facking there, maaaan."
But the hordes of soap-dodgers (I believe the collective noun is a "Scruff"), the rat-faced ones in full-on shoplifter uniform (black and white kids in shell suits w/ kecks tucked into socks)...? The ones filling their fucking boots and mugging the poor few honest souls unlucky enough to have to live near them? I know them too well.
"Consumerism relies upon people feeling disconnected from the world."
"Consumer society relies on your ability to participate in it."
I did say I had put my Tebbit head on last week. But f*ck knows, they have actually got bikes.
There was fuck-all work going where I grew up other than dealing (not casino-R) or stacking shelves. I did try and stay local, but getting attacked by screwdriver-wielding scallies and my mum getting mugged the same week, round the back of the house, kind of took the shine off it. I mean, I did some things I am not proud of when I was a lot younger but not this shit. This shit is plainly not right.
Exactly.
Add to that politicians defrauding taxpayers > kids nicking some trainers.
Absolutely.
Next in a long long line of not rights. The sum of a history of incorrect behaviour.
i like this cat. he knows people think he's a cunt. a lot of his buddies aren't as self aware. he just fumbles on and tries not to say stupid shit.
Thanks
"The type of goods being looted seems peculiarly relevant: if they were going for bare necessities, I think one might incline towards sympathy. I could be wrong, but I don't get the impression that we're looking at people who are hungry. If they were going for more outlandish luxury, hitting Tiffany's and Gucci, they might seem more political, and thereby more respectable. Their achilles heel was in going for things they demonstrably want."
The sad thing is, when they get home with their new trainers and wide screen tv they are going to be just as miserable as they were before.