just another reflection of classism, current and historical, that is largely ignored when the architects/stewards of capitalist systems make their assumptions.
It's not that the population is "mixed," its the failure to integrate people into the society they have chosen to live in, both culturally and economically.
Umm. Most of the are kids were born in the 90's. They never chose where they live. Just like they didn't choose to be poor.
Just because they are brown. Does not mean they are immigrants... I'm betting most of these kids families have been in the UK for 40+ years. Many probably over 100.
"product of all that multi-culti bullshit"
Your statement seems to imply that the UK would be way better off if they had just left all those brown people in the countries Britain tended to have their way with for hundreds of years.
Multiculturalism has more or less been a success in my country. The people who believe it's "bullshit" tend to be 9 out of 10 times racist IMO.
And I think maybe the point The_Hook_Up was trying to make. Is that for all your "multi-culti bullshit". The music you seem to idolize is from the direct result of many cultures coming together. Both "culturally and economically". You think the music was from cultures mixing with no riots or poor people getting taken advantage of and rising up?
exactly the point I was trying to make...granted, my only foray into Brazilian history was Caetano's "Tropical Truth"...but DOR articulated my sentimnent much better than I.
It's not that the population is "mixed," its the failure to integrate people into the society they have chosen to live in, both culturally and economically.
Umm. Most of the are kids were born in the 90's. They never chose where they live. Just like they didn't choose to be poor.
Just because they are brown. Does not mean they are immigrants... I'm betting most of these kids families have been in the UK for 40+ years. Many probably over 100.
"product of all that multi-culti bullshit"
Your statement seems to imply that the UK would be way better off if they had just left all those brown people in the countries Britain tended to have their way with for hundreds of years.
Multiculturalism has more or less been a success in my country. The people who believe it's "bullshit" tend to be 9 out of 10 times racist IMO.
And I think maybe the point The_Hook_Up was trying to make. Is that for all your "multi-culti bullshit". The music you seem to idolize is from the direct result of many cultures coming together. Both "culturally and economically". You think the music was from cultures mixing with no riots or poor people getting taken advantage of and rising up?
exactly the point I was trying to make...granted, my only foray into Brazilian history was Caetano's "Tropical Truth"...but DOR articulated my sentiment much better than I.
DOR is my dude.
Generally speaking, when a difference of opinions happens, I am not really interested in changing people's minds; it takes away from the quality of discourse when the main objective is about strong-arming the next person, no matter how factual, measured and eloquent.
Whether Saba sees it different or not, that's for him and his life to figure out. I am just happy he doesn't stoop to the level he used to - hurrah for fatherhood.
But the bigger deal and outcome for these threads on the Board is that there are really good moments of perspective and ideas that shine through.
To relate the American experience to England and Europe, most of the modern immigration to western Europe was the result of WWII. After the war millions were dead, displaced, and the place was destroyed. That led to a huge labor shortage, which was filled by Europe looking to its colonies to bring in foreign workers. That went from the mid-1940s to 1960s. Most countries didn't expect these people to stay after the work was done but they did. Not only that but it established traditions of immigration from specific regions and cities in the developing world to the developed. When Europe had recovered it had a growing number of immigrants that they didn't especially want so they were segregated with declining job prospects, similar to blacks being segregated in urban America while jobs were migrating to the suburbs after WWII.
To relate the American experience to England and Europe, most of the modern immigration to western Europe was the result of WWII. After the war millions were dead, displaced, and the place was destroyed. That led to a huge labor shortage, which was filled by Europe looking to its colonies to bring in foreign workers. That went from the mid-1940s to 1960s. Most countries didn't expect these people to stay after the work was done but they did. Not only that but it established traditions of immigration from specific regions and cities in the developing world to the developed. When Europe had recovered it had a growing number of immigrants that they didn't especially want so they were segregated with declining job prospects, similar to blacks being segregated in urban America while jobs were migrating to the suburbs after WWII.
I do agree here, but still think that London is one the most positively mixed cities in the world. Seriously, I've never experienced a city where it was so much irrelevant how you look, where you from etc. People mingle much better than let's say in Berlin. At least in my experience. And it wasn't only "Black" or "Brown" people that looted. I don't think you can really pull the race card when it comes to these riots. Maybe it all boils down to education. Then again, I am not an expert on the matter and can only speak from my experience. Btw, I did play this tonight to a crowd that mostly was just born when this did drop. And it went down really well:
Really though, all your immegration / race theories fall apart when you look at the riots in Manchester and other parts of the UK.
Exactly.
They way I see it is that the idea of theft with seemingly no repercussions is too big a carrot to dangle in front of these feral teenagers. Pls to note I am not tarring all of inner-city youth with the same brush, but the people you see looting are the ones who probably shoplift anyway, or already have some investment in crime.
Sadly, as it has always been, a career of crime pays better than working towards a raise and has no educational barriers to entry, which means they don't need to bother with all that reading and writing and all that other pussy non-gangsta stuff. Specially if you nick somefink for your mum too.
Seems to me the rest of the crowd are ghouls, bored, or have some axe to grind with the police. There is no goal to these riots. No agenda.
My position is that the welfare state [strike]prevents assimilation and[/strike] guarantees a permanent underclass that remains dependent on the government and thus ensures the continuation of the welfare state to the benefit of those that obtain profit or power from the operation of that system.
And I'll agree with you to a point, but I don't think it's that cut-and-dried.
This isn't about race. If you want evidence that multiculturalism is alive and well, look at the looters:
Racial harmony in action, mate.
The political and financial elite have no qualms about who they oppress, what colour they are, or how long they have lived in England.
I'm not making light of the situation, being a Hackney youth worker... Far to much to say, and sad to see the young people we've spent many years working with and ploughing resources into, running amock.
I want everything, I want it now and it should be given to me for free.....
Last nights events were nothing more than criminal opportunism, Manchester gang leaders directing youths round the city to loot and cause damage. This isn't a race riot and it's an insult to those who were in the race riots of 1981 and 1985 to suggest they are, but there is the background of discrimination and SUS as well as other social deprivation that leads us to this point. White vigilantes on the streets reportedly (REPORTEDLY - but not a lot, and not on the BBC that i've seen) shouting 'BNP!' and trying to turn this into a race war, very worrying - there are parties that will use this to their advantage for all the wrong reasons.
Also people on the ground reporting that the youths in Manchester were not local, and of taxi firms ferrying them in. It's hard to know what is truth and what is just bullshit in all this, but people with hope in their lives don't riot and the government need to rethink investment in the areas they have deprived for so many years so that young people have something to get out of bed for in the morning. This is the poorly educated indigenous underclass of England doing something for the thrill and kudos amongst their own peers, it's been going on for years but just not on this scale, and it's not about colour or race right now.
The children of the children of Thatcher. It was coming.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
White vigilantes on the streets of London reports are UNTRUE it seems, nothing more than racist shit from Nick Griffin and his moronic followers, if people want to hit on anything maybe they could pop round his place and sort him out vigilante style the C***.
The people in Enfield were defending their community, all races and creeds as in Southall.
The sale of baseball bats on Amazon has risen a whopping 5,000% amid the London riots.
One particular bat, the Rucanor aluminium design, has climbed from 6,500th in the best-selling items list to 125th overnight.
One customer review, by Harry Fish in Bristol, says: "This bat is perfectly weighted and will suit any UK shop-owner looking to protect their property.
"Thanks to the ergonomic handle, one easy swing should be enough to shatter patellas, skulls or any other bone on your targeted looter.
"Personally, I would recommend also investing in some fingerless gloves for extra grip."
All-metal police batons have also grown considerably in popularity, while the top seven items in the 'Movers and Shakers' in Amazon's 'Sports & Leisure' category can all be used as weapons.
It's hard to know what is truth and what is just bullshit in all this.
Truth = anything that supports your position that this is the fault of Thatcher and conservative government systematically neglecting and opressing the poor.
Truth rarely exists at the margins, but it is useful to go there and see for yourself. Some people don't get a round trip ticket though and then end up thinking that mind control crop dusters really are the biggest issue facing humanity's future. Or taxes.
Comments
Just protecting their turf...
Touche. When I next emigrate I am switching to non clearcut Mate.
Many of those swords appear to be ceremonial. My grandma has one.
Irony? And well, um, let's just say some of them do get put to use from time to time, in the UK at least.
http://livingdeadgirl84.tripod.com/jellobiafra/jello_int3.htm
exactly the point I was trying to make...granted, my only foray into Brazilian history was Caetano's "Tropical Truth"...but DOR articulated my sentimnent much better than I.
DOR is my dude.
Generally speaking, when a difference of opinions happens, I am not really interested in changing people's minds; it takes away from the quality of discourse when the main objective is about strong-arming the next person, no matter how factual, measured and eloquent.
Whether Saba sees it different or not, that's for him and his life to figure out. I am just happy he doesn't stoop to the level he used to - hurrah for fatherhood.
But the bigger deal and outcome for these threads on the Board is that there are really good moments of perspective and ideas that shine through.
I do agree here, but still think that London is one the most positively mixed cities in the world. Seriously, I've never experienced a city where it was so much irrelevant how you look, where you from etc. People mingle much better than let's say in Berlin. At least in my experience. And it wasn't only "Black" or "Brown" people that looted. I don't think you can really pull the race card when it comes to these riots. Maybe it all boils down to education. Then again, I am not an expert on the matter and can only speak from my experience. Btw, I did play this tonight to a crowd that mostly was just born when this did drop. And it went down really well:
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201189105816840954.html
Exactly.
They way I see it is that the idea of theft with seemingly no repercussions is too big a carrot to dangle in front of these feral teenagers. Pls to note I am not tarring all of inner-city youth with the same brush, but the people you see looting are the ones who probably shoplift anyway, or already have some investment in crime.
Sadly, as it has always been, a career of crime pays better than working towards a raise and has no educational barriers to entry, which means they don't need to bother with all that reading and writing and all that other pussy non-gangsta stuff. Specially if you nick somefink for your mum too.
Seems to me the rest of the crowd are ghouls, bored, or have some axe to grind with the police. There is no goal to these riots. No agenda.
Yes. Thank you.
And I'll agree with you to a point, but I don't think it's that cut-and-dried.
This isn't about race. If you want evidence that multiculturalism is alive and well, look at the looters:
Racial harmony in action, mate.
The political and financial elite have no qualms about who they oppress, what colour they are, or how long they have lived in England.
By the way, if no one else wants it I'm all over this new location.
Haha! It's too good to let Harv forget.
I want everything, I want it now and it should be given to me for free.....
One of the inevitable..
http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com/
Also people on the ground reporting that the youths in Manchester were not local, and of taxi firms ferrying them in. It's hard to know what is truth and what is just bullshit in all this, but people with hope in their lives don't riot and the government need to rethink investment in the areas they have deprived for so many years so that young people have something to get out of bed for in the morning. This is the poorly educated indigenous underclass of England doing something for the thrill and kudos amongst their own peers, it's been going on for years but just not on this scale, and it's not about colour or race right now.
The children of the children of Thatcher. It was coming.
The people in Enfield were defending their community, all races and creeds as in Southall.
I am NOT down with this.
ALthough, we will probably see some real EBAY bargains on yr fave brit electronic new realeases!!!!!!!!
Why would I forget something that is truth?
Truth = anything that supports your position that this is the fault of Thatcher and conservative government systematically neglecting and opressing the poor.
Bullshit = anything that may suggest otherwise.
And that the people wo are patrolling the streets trying to protect their families and property are "right wing".
So what are the folks on the "left wing" doing during this mess?