And not for nothing, but bossa nova would probably be considered more closely identified with the European opressors than with the indigenous browns of Brazil anyway.
Absolute cosign. I was going to point this out, but you did it yourself. Some of you dudes who collect Brazilian should spend a few minutes acquainting yourself with Brazilian political history, either on wiki or read Shock Doctrine or something. Then Saba's website and collectro tendencies make total sense. Breezy like Ed Lincoln, not visceral like Georgy Ben. 64-68 is his Golden Era
Sabadababa's reaction that these are 'leftist' rioters is obviously wrong in that I don't think anyone invloved in this is chanting Marxist slogans about Property being Theft. But they are the end-product of capitalism writ large.
My two cents: this is more like an end-product of a blind faith in capitalism that fails to take account of the kind of classism that Marxism describes.
Of course, we don't actually have "blind faith" in capitalism - we do have imperfect "social safety nets" and other markers of a welfare state...and this is where right vs left comes in for me: how blind should our faith be in the invsbl hand?
But Okem, as one of Soulstrut's foremost purveyors of ghetto reality porn (on either side of the Atlantic) it surprises me that you have such a reaction.
But Okem, as one of Soulstrut's foremost purveyors of ghetto reality porn (on either side of the Atlantic) it surprises me that you have such a reaction.
i don't think he was saying anything too far out... it was the more the reporter being a cunt:
DH: i'm not suprised by this, when you think about the conditions in the innercity
reporter: OH, SO YOU CONDONE IT?!?!?!?
the wildest thing he says is call it an insurrection as opposed to a riot, which is more marxist dialectics than anything else...
oh, and i just got an email from the London 2012 Olympic Commitee about tickets:
9 August 2011
Dear Peter, here is your round-up of all this month's London 2012 ticketing news
A capitalist economy can't support a socialist welfare state indefinitely.
A state has to be seen as more than just its economy and has needs beyond financial management. Even Cameron decided to embrace the notion of a society (however superficially he does so).
Plus, there's more than one way to run a capitalist economy. Think of all the creative ways that regulations and taxes are used in different countries.
Finally, just becasue the U.S. is the bastion of individual freedom, that doesn't mean that every state aspires to embody that ideal. It's one of the few key reasons that I'm happier in Toronto than I was in LA.
It's not that the population is "mixed," its the failure to integrate people into the society they have chosen to live in, both culturally and economically.
Umm. Most of the are kids were born in the 90's. They never chose where they live. Just like they didn't choose to be poor.
Just because they are brown. Does not mean they are immigrants... I'm betting most of these kids families have been in the UK for 40+ years. Many probably over 100.
"product of all that multi-culti bullshit"
Your statement seems to imply that the UK would be way better off if they had just left all those brown people in the countries Britain tended to have their way with for hundreds of years.
Multiculturalism has more or less been a success in my country. The people who believe it's "bullshit" tend to be 9 out of 10 times racist IMO.
And I think maybe the point The_Hook_Up was trying to make. Is that for all your "multi-culti bullshit". The music you seem to idolize is from the direct result of many cultures coming together. Both "culturally and economically". You think the music was from cultures mixing with no riots or poor people getting taken advantage of and rising up?
He's saying that multiculturalism can have concequences when integration is not taken under consideration. If there are no job opportunities for groups of immigrants or because of cutural differences they lack the skills necessary to gain employment and no real way to gain them, that's a failure of integration. This problem is not solved when the cradle to the grave welfare state removes all incentive for people to improve their situation on their own.
A capitalist economy can't support a socialist welfare state indefinitely.
A state has to be seen as more than just its economy and has needs beyond financial management. Even Cameron decided to embrace the notion of a society (however superficially he does so).
Plus, there's more than one way to run a capitalist economy. Think of all the creative ways that regulations and taxes are used in different countries.
Finally, just becasue the U.S. is the bastion of individual freedom, that doesn't mean that every state aspires to embody that ideal. It's one of the few key reasons that I'm happier in Toronto than I was in LA.
Not sure if you meant Louisiana or Los Angeles but can you give a speciific example of how your individual freedom(s) were compromised in the U.S. but not in Canada?
It's not that the population is "mixed," its the failure to integrate people into the society they have chosen to live in, both culturally and economically.
Umm. Most of the are kids were born in the 90's. They never chose where they live. Just like they didn't choose to be poor.
Just because they are brown. Does not mean they are immigrants... I'm betting most of these kids families have been in the UK for 40+ years. Many probably over 100.
"product of all that multi-culti bullshit"
Your statement seems to imply that the UK would be way better off if they had just left all those brown people in the countries Britain tended to have their way with for hundreds of years.
Multiculturalism has more or less been a success in my country. The people who believe it's "bullshit" tend to be 9 out of 10 times racist IMO.
And for about forty+ years they've failed to integrate them.
And were getting closer to just out-and-out calling me a racist. Now there is a 90% certainty that I am one.
He's saying that multiculturalism can have concequences when integration is not taken under consideration.
But that doesn't make any sense. Of course integration was taken under consideration at the time. It's how the government has abandoned people and left them to rot.
He's not talking talking about the Irish or Russians with multicultural statements...
???When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead while refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the voice of the unheard.??? Martin Luther King
It's interesting that you quoted MLKJ, since the first thing I think of when I hear of rioting is the race riots tha occured in multiple cities after his assassination (some of the most symbolic riots in modern American history IMO). The main diff is that the reaction was in response to something concrete and tangible, rather than a general, nebulous disenfranchisement with the economy.
After the 1968 race riots in DC, looted areas remained depressed for years. Heck, Colombia Heights was all rubble until the Establishment build a subway on it decades later. Someone mentioned that these areas have been written off and these kids feel thay have little to lose. Well, now that they basically sh** where they have to eat, their neighbours' businesses will have higher insurance rates, and their own families will have to lie in the rubble they created.
This is just an excuse for the Authority to continue not to do something. What better and cheaper way to maintain the status quo than to let the proles riot and loot and then not do anything since "they made their bed and should lie in it."
Good job kids. You burnt down Uncle Tony's corner shop, which will remain a pile of charred wood until They build a subway or a Starbucks on it.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
...just not acknowledged as such.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Brian said:
There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
Brian, as a first gen American, I understand what you mean in that my parents have always been reluctant to accept the social mores of the culture their own cildren were born into. Creates a lot of friction for us at times.
However, just because I am a person of color and seldom represented in politics and media does not give me license to blatantly disregard my community and general public safety. Allowing poverty and disenfranchisement to justify burning down working-class businesses perpetuates the notion that the lower rungs of society are primitive and incapable of effective discourse. Being poor is not an excuse for behaving badly.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Brian said:
DocMcCoy said:
Brian said:
There's quite a distinction between being born British and having your entire family and previous generations born and raised in public housing.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...
I read on teh webz that that the firms are now getting in on the act - The youf's started it, the firms are organising and raising the stakes- is this the case or just Sky-news type scare mongering?
Comments
Absolute cosign. I was going to point this out, but you did it yourself. Some of you dudes who collect Brazilian should spend a few minutes acquainting yourself with Brazilian political history, either on wiki or read Shock Doctrine or something. Then Saba's website and collectro tendencies make total sense. Breezy like Ed Lincoln, not visceral like Georgy Ben. 64-68 is his Golden Era
My two cents: this is more like an end-product of a blind faith in capitalism that fails to take account of the kind of classism that Marxism describes.
Of course, we don't actually have "blind faith" in capitalism - we do have imperfect "social safety nets" and other markers of a welfare state...and this is where right vs left comes in for me: how blind should our faith be in the invsbl hand?
LOL, he's just playing Devil's Advocate.
But Okem, as one of Soulstrut's foremost purveyors of ghetto reality porn (on either side of the Atlantic) it surprises me that you have such a reaction.
Now if you'll excuse me, there are a couple of trolls I need to put on 'ignore'.
So effed up. Dark times. What will Andy Votel do?
i don't think he was saying anything too far out... it was the more the reporter being a cunt:
DH: i'm not suprised by this, when you think about the conditions in the innercity
reporter: OH, SO YOU CONDONE IT?!?!?!?
the wildest thing he says is call it an insurrection as opposed to a riot, which is more marxist dialectics than anything else...
oh, and i just got an email from the London 2012 Olympic Commitee about tickets:
9 August 2011
Dear Peter, here is your round-up of all this month's London 2012 ticketing news
their timing is impeccable!!!!
A state has to be seen as more than just its economy and has needs beyond financial management. Even Cameron decided to embrace the notion of a society (however superficially he does so).
Plus, there's more than one way to run a capitalist economy. Think of all the creative ways that regulations and taxes are used in different countries.
Finally, just becasue the U.S. is the bastion of individual freedom, that doesn't mean that every state aspires to embody that ideal. It's one of the few key reasons that I'm happier in Toronto than I was in LA.
The other main reason being that the other option was LA.
Umm. Most of the are kids were born in the 90's. They never chose where they live. Just like they didn't choose to be poor.
Just because they are brown. Does not mean they are immigrants... I'm betting most of these kids families have been in the UK for 40+ years. Many probably over 100.
"product of all that multi-culti bullshit"
Your statement seems to imply that the UK would be way better off if they had just left all those brown people in the countries Britain tended to have their way with for hundreds of years.
Multiculturalism has more or less been a success in my country. The people who believe it's "bullshit" tend to be 9 out of 10 times racist IMO.
And I think maybe the point The_Hook_Up was trying to make. Is that for all your "multi-culti bullshit". The music you seem to idolize is from the direct result of many cultures coming together. Both "culturally and economically". You think the music was from cultures mixing with no riots or poor people getting taken advantage of and rising up?
Not sure if you meant Louisiana or Los Angeles but can you give a speciific example of how your individual freedom(s) were compromised in the U.S. but not in Canada?
And for about forty+ years they've failed to integrate them.
And were getting closer to just out-and-out calling me a racist. Now there is a 90% certainty that I am one.
But that doesn't make any sense. Of course integration was taken under consideration at the time. It's how the government has abandoned people and left them to rot.
He's not talking talking about the Irish or Russians with multicultural statements...
I'm not saying you're racist. But the statements you make are for the most part dumb. With very little thought about history.
IMO
It's interesting that you quoted MLKJ, since the first thing I think of when I hear of rioting is the race riots tha occured in multiple cities after his assassination (some of the most symbolic riots in modern American history IMO). The main diff is that the reaction was in response to something concrete and tangible, rather than a general, nebulous disenfranchisement with the economy.
After the 1968 race riots in DC, looted areas remained depressed for years. Heck, Colombia Heights was all rubble until the Establishment build a subway on it decades later. Someone mentioned that these areas have been written off and these kids feel thay have little to lose. Well, now that they basically sh** where they have to eat, their neighbours' businesses will have higher insurance rates, and their own families will have to lie in the rubble they created.
This is just an excuse for the Authority to continue not to do something. What better and cheaper way to maintain the status quo than to let the proles riot and loot and then not do anything since "they made their bed and should lie in it."
Good job kids. You burnt down Uncle Tony's corner shop, which will remain a pile of charred wood until They build a subway or a Starbucks on it.
Plus, these kids are not just black and are born and bred British, so fuck off with that racist "multi-culti" bollocks.
When people talk of the "failure" of multiculturalism, they never talk about the Irish, the Russians, the Poles, the Italians...
But many of these kids rioting aren't immigrants. They were born there. They are British. For many, the only ties they have are their parents and where they came from. It's not because they don't know how to integrate into British culture. They are British culture...
Saba wouldn't being saying this is due to multiculture bullshit if he saw a bunch of white youths from different white background countries. He'd probably just call them poor and they should get a job.
...just not acknowledged as such.
I'm both, so if you'd care to explain that distinction to me...
But few of them are assimilated and few of them make an attempt to assimilate, because the country accomodates them. For the most part the Russians and Poles know that to get ahead you have to assimilate. And there are likley fewer services directed at Russian and Polish immigrants as opposed to the "brown" ones (your term). They do nothing to prepare new citizens for succeeding in a western culture - where they now live, and just put them on the dole and educate them enough to fill the lowest jobs. Its bigotryall the same.
Even the BNP can see this is a false distinction.
Brian, as a first gen American, I understand what you mean in that my parents have always been reluctant to accept the social mores of the culture their own cildren were born into. Creates a lot of friction for us at times.
However, just because I am a person of color and seldom represented in politics and media does not give me license to blatantly disregard my community and general public safety. Allowing poverty and disenfranchisement to justify burning down working-class businesses perpetuates the notion that the lower rungs of society are primitive and incapable of effective discourse. Being poor is not an excuse for behaving badly.
In which case, I agree with you.
All the cops down in London...
I read on teh webz that that the firms are now getting in on the act - The youf's started it, the firms are organising and raising the stakes- is this the case or just Sky-news type scare mongering?