I used to be one of those dudes that thought Phil has always been privileged to play w/ GREAT players and never really had to "prove" himself w/ "rebuilding".
Like I said earlier POP joined the Twin Towers Era and has done an excellent job in keeping the franchise at a high level.
But the 'More With Less' Critique doesnt hold up when comparing these two coaches....IMO.
The Spurs ring-teams have not been bereft of talent, I agree. They just seem to have been perfectly calibrated and had to run at peak performance to win and they did it four times (three, whatever). Phil had the larger than life cats who are singular and special, faces-of-the-league types with the rarest of killer instincts in Jordan and Kobe/Shaq. It's the rebuilding thing you mention above ultimately for me, and perhaps that isn't valid.
Robinson and Duncan are larger than life NBA players IMO.
Definitely. But Robinson was on some last-year shit. The two teams that won in 05 and 07 were Duncan and a super collection of roleplayers, mostly...Manu excepted.
Are there any coaches of the 90s and 00s that are on or close to the Pop/PJ level?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Are there any coaches of the 90s and 00s that are on or close to the Pop/PJ level?
Jerry Sloan keeps leading teams with average talent to the playoffs...if not for Phil Jerry would probably have 3 rings
Phil-next to John Wooden probably the best game prepared coach in basketball history....Phil is the best at having a strict and detailed game plan and executing it to perfection...this is why he doesn't have to walk up and down the bench
Pop-The best in-game coach I've ever seen....he adjusts to game situations better than anyone....his time-outs,substitution patterns and half-time adjustments and feel for the game are always on point
I Love watching Pop vs Phil...its a helluva chess match when they meet
Jerry Sloan keeps leading teams with average talent to the playoffs...if not for Phil Jerry would probably have 3 rings
as much as i despise sloan for killing teams i liked, it's incredible how his simple, hard-nosed approach to the game on both ends of the floor (incredible man to man and weakside schemes, plus a series of pics and cutters in an effort to find the easiest, most logical shot) has served his often mediocre-talent teams well so consistently over the last 400 years.
I'm not talking about their game that much, except for KMart.
I'm talking more personal character/personality.
Don't underestimate the value of a well-placed knucklehead.
With dudes like K-Mart, Melo, Birdman, JR Smith....they mostly seem like a collection of thugs and ne'er-do-wells to me. Not even saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but it makes for a volatile mix. Billups and Karl help.
A player can be a knucklehead on the court, in the locker room or just IRL.
A knucklehead IRL doesn't mean much to me other than the fact that many times it carries over to the other two. Kobe appears to be a knucklehead IRL but not in the locker room or on the court. You can certainly win with this brand of knucklehead.
A knucklehead on the court is a guy who doesn't play team ball, is easily distracted, is hard to coach, can't focus at the task at hand for a solid 60 minutes. You can get into these guys heads and their game will go south as they drag the entire team down with them. These dudes can kill a team. Josh Howard was this brand of knucklehead. KMart too. Ron Artest. The one common thread is these guys never play up to the potential of their true talent.
A knucklehead in the locker room is a guy who is self centered, complains a lot, doesn't get along with his team mates and can drag the team down with a simple attitude. Whiners...dudes that mope if they don't get the playing time or number of shots they think they deserve. This kind of knucklehead can drag a team down. Josh Howard was this brand of knucklehead.
plus a series of pics and cutters in an effort to find the easiest, most logical shot
Been saying this ever since they've become relevant again with D. Williams (less sensationalist bullshit that is clogging the minds of the youth and not so young, and more of this). They play beautiful team basketball.
Jerry Sloan keeps leading teams with average talent to the playoffs...if not for Phil Jerry would probably have 3 rings
Phil-next to John Wooden probably the best game prepared coach in basketball history....Phil is the best at having a strict and detailed game plan and executing it to perfection...this is why he doesn't have to walk up and down the bench
Pop-The best in-game coach I've ever seen....he adjusts to game situations better than anyone....his time-outs,substitution patterns and half-time adjustments and feel for the game are always on point
I Love watching Pop vs Phil...its a helluva chess match when they meet
I'd like to give the Most Improved Poster award to Edpowers. I also remember him calling Russell Westbrook a potential star sometime last year. Excellent call! Thought he'd be another Cory Maggette type of player. Hyper athletic but never really able to fine tune his game to become a true star.
Yeah Westbrook and KD were doing it. Bigs were doing it too. I have been excited about Westbrook for as long as I've been excited about Durant. I hope those two stay together on that team for a long time. I would love to see another win in OKC, even it up. OKC is everybody new favorite up and coming team. It's funny too, because there was a LOT of dissent when they moved from Seattle...
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Definitely. But Robinson was on some last-year shit. The two teams that won in 05 and 07 were Duncan and a super collection of roleplayers, mostly...Manu excepted.
Are there any coaches of the 90s and 00s that are on or close to the Pop/PJ level?
No, but I like George Karl.
Rings - Nope.
Skills -
I have
Jerry Sloan
Larry Brown
Pat Riley
Rudy Tomjonavich and Chuck Daly of the late 80's into the 90's.
On the come-up if he can get a good run......Rick Carlyle is my dude. And Im happy he's got Dork to work with.
I'd throw some love Nellie's way on some "mad scientist" shit.
Nice on Carlisle. My Mavs-title-run-fever-dreams have coalesced around a Carlisle-led-Pistons-esque scenario of a perfect storm of hungry vets.
I forgot about Nellie. I will always rep Nellie after witnessing his "wizardry" while in New York.
He had Brad Lohaus at the 2 Guard w/ Anthony Mason Playing Point Forward. Amazing shit.
His "steez" totally changed my NBA Showdown/LIVE possibilities.
Jerry Sloan keeps leading teams with average talent to the playoffs...if not for Phil Jerry would probably have 3 rings
Phil-next to John Wooden probably the best game prepared coach in basketball history....Phil is the best at having a strict and detailed game plan and executing it to perfection...this is why he doesn't have to walk up and down the bench
Pop-The best in-game coach I've ever seen....he adjusts to game situations better than anyone....his time-outs,substitution patterns and half-time adjustments and feel for the game are always on point
I Love watching Pop vs Phil...its a helluva chess match when they meet
Plus, they're the two coaches who are the most openly antagonistic about those stupid end-of-quarter interviews, which is funny stuff.
as much as i despise sloan for killing teams i liked, it's incredible how his simple, hard-nosed approach to the game on both ends of the floor (incredible man to man and weakside schemes, plus a series of pics and cutters in an effort to find the easiest, most logical shot) has served his often mediocre-talent teams well so consistently over the last 400 years.
Some coaches (Pop & Sloan) need a specific type of player in order for their style to be successful. They don't tolerate knuckleheads.
Others (Jackson) can take what he is given and coach accordingly and be successful. Can work with a knucklehead or two.
I challenge you to:
Break down the meaning of a "knucklehead" in the NBA
and
Prove to me how anybody on the Nuggets other than JR might be considered one.
OK go.
When did this thread turn into the "NBA Coaches" thread?
Dallas got their shit handed to them last night. I wasn't expecting that.
I'm talking more personal character/personality.
Don't underestimate the value of a well-placed knucklehead.
With dudes like K-Mart, Melo, Birdman, JR Smith....they mostly seem like a collection of thugs and ne'er-do-wells to me. Not even saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but it makes for a volatile mix. Billups and Karl help.
I like the way you talk too.
A player can be a knucklehead on the court, in the locker room or just IRL.
A knucklehead IRL doesn't mean much to me other than the fact that many times it carries over to the other two. Kobe appears to be a knucklehead IRL but not in the locker room or on the court. You can certainly win with this brand of knucklehead.
A knucklehead on the court is a guy who doesn't play team ball, is easily distracted, is hard to coach, can't focus at the task at hand for a solid 60 minutes. You can get into these guys heads and their game will go south as they drag the entire team down with them. These dudes can kill a team. Josh Howard was this brand of knucklehead. KMart too. Ron Artest. The one common thread is these guys never play up to the potential of their true talent.
A knucklehead in the locker room is a guy who is self centered, complains a lot, doesn't get along with his team mates and can drag the team down with a simple attitude. Whiners...dudes that mope if they don't get the playing time or number of shots they think they deserve. This kind of knucklehead can drag a team down. Josh Howard was this brand of knucklehead.
Hell yea.
Been saying this ever since they've become relevant again with D. Williams (less sensationalist bullshit that is clogging the minds of the youth and not so young, and more of this). They play beautiful team basketball.
I'd like to give the Most Improved Poster award to Edpowers. I also remember him calling Russell Westbrook a potential star sometime last year. Excellent call! Thought he'd be another Cory Maggette type of player. Hyper athletic but never really able to fine tune his game to become a true star.
As long as Nash is running the point, they're running and gunning themselves into the ground EVERY post season.
I wouldnt blame Nash on the Suns flameouts. He can play in a haffcourt Playoff system if the franchise chose to.
As much as I dont back them overall, I think they could actually suprise cats.
OH NO NOT THAT!
They've never done shit. They ain't never doing shit.
haha.....AMARE JUST DUNKED THE BALL!!!!!!
That's worth at least 3 rings, right?
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