I can no longer follow the convo and yallz are making me feel dumb.
Ha!
Dwyhajlo, you know you're stuff, holmes! You in the industry?
I'm realizing now how much of a casual appreciater / "I like what I like and have no idea who designed it unless I see a logo" kinda guy I am.
I know it's all about the name in this industry, but do you honestly feel this stuff is put-together well enough to justify at least part of the ridiculous price?
I can no longer follow the convo and yallz are making me feel dumb.
Ha!
Dwyhajlo, you know you're stuff, holmes! You in the industry?
I'm realizing now how much of a casual appreciater / "I like what I like and have no idea who designed it unless I see a logo" kinda guy I am.
I know it's all about the name in this industry, but do you honestly feel this stuff is put-together well enough to justify at least part of the ridiculous price?
I can no longer follow the convo and yallz are making me feel dumb.
Ha!
Dwyhajlo, you know you're stuff, holmes! You in the industry?
I'm realizing now how much of a casual appreciater / "I like what I like and have no idea who designed it unless I see a logo" kinda guy I am.
I know it's all about the name in this industry, but do you honestly feel this stuff is put-together well enough to justify at least part of the ridiculous price?
Heh, thanks. I'm only sorta-kinda in the industry - I've designed a few things for myself and some friends, but other than that I'm just a hobbyist. I've thought of doing some of my own stuff, but that's more than a full-time job, and being in school/working as a pharmacist doesn't leave as much time as I'd want or need. Maybe sometime in the future I'll do something with it.
It really depends on a lot of things. For the most part, you aren't really paying for "quality" per se*, rather you're paying for a specific style, an aesthetic, materials that are exotic/technical/rare, etc. If you take a look at the cost per unit for some of the materials used by the high fashion industry, and then compare it to what you'd see at a fast-fashion place like Zara or H&M, you can start to see why the costs are so much greater. In addition, being in the vanguard often means that your customer base is limited, so you don't really have the advantage of the economies of scale or the access to high volume production that say H&M has.
For example, during the 80's everyone was putting out cheap stuff with their brand on it and selling it at larger national chains, and YSL put out a line of towels with like Target or someone similar. Someone from YSL remarked that if they had put out the towels on their own, it would have cost a ridiculous amount of money (like quadruple the price or something).
That being said, yeah, a lot of the time the prices can get quite ridiculous. My philosophy's always been one of quality (in an abstract sense) over quantity. I would rather have a closet with 20 things that I'd want to wear every day, than a closet with 100 things that I hate or that don't fit properly, etc. etc. I find that if you bide your time, watch sales, and only buy stuff that you absolutely LOVE, then you really can negate a lot of the excess cost.
*I also want to say that there are a few "artisanal" brands lately that make very expensive stuff with extremely esoteric production details, exotic materials, and very good construction (and prices to match). It's the sort of thing where you have to see it in person and touch it to really "get it", and I like that personal approach to fashion.
Well, I think you have to consider it within the broader context of men's fashion. There's never been that much of a variety to choose from. Even through the 90's, was there a whole lot to choose from aside from Prada (and maybe a couple other Italian brands), Helmut Lang, and maybe Jil Sander and other assorted brands? The whole Slimane/Dior Homme thing was such a break from the torpid status quo and it came to dominate so rapidly and so extensively, and swung to almost the exact opposite end of the spectrum, where getting something that wasn't from the Dior Homme tight-and-ready-for-lovin' mold became hard for guys who were into ''fashion''. Men's fashion is still playing catch-up even after all of this, so hopefully people who design for people with varying body types (a la Rick Owens) is just the beginning.
So, yeah, even though Owens designs with a very specific type of person in mind, that he designs for someone who doesn't look like a Slimane model is refreshing.
I appreciate this and don't necessarily disagree - I think the whole skinny jeans and cardigan thing goes back to him and that's not going anywhere soon.
What I did like about Slimane for Dior though, despite the limitations of the silhouette is the out of the boardroom and off the yacht, messy approach to dress clothes. It restricted in one sense, but it also opened things up in another.
I find that if you bide your time, watch sales, and only buy stuff that you absolutely LOVE, then you really can negate a lot of the excess cost.
This is absolute truth - last winter, I got a Marc Jacobs skirt and sweater for less than $150 just by waiting for end-of-season sales. They are both classic timeless cuts and styles. I watched a pair of $350+ BCBG sandals all summer three years ago and finally got them for less than $200. I still wear them.
If you are into this season's looks, it might be harder, but if you lean toward simpler, well-made classics, end of season sales are your very good friend.
Well, I think you have to consider it within the broader context of men's fashion. There's never been that much of a variety to choose from. Even through the 90's, was there a whole lot to choose from aside from Prada (and maybe a couple other Italian brands), Helmut Lang, and maybe Jil Sander and other assorted brands? The whole Slimane/Dior Homme thing was such a break from the torpid status quo and it came to dominate so rapidly and so extensively, and swung to almost the exact opposite end of the spectrum, where getting something that wasn't from the Dior Homme tight-and-ready-for-lovin' mold became hard for guys who were into ''fashion''. Men's fashion is still playing catch-up even after all of this, so hopefully people who design for people with varying body types (a la Rick Owens) is just the beginning.
So, yeah, even though Owens designs with a very specific type of person in mind, that he designs for someone who doesn't look like a Slimane model is refreshing.
I appreciate this and don't necessarily disagree - I think the whole skinny jeans and cardigan thing goes back to him and that's not going anywhere soon.
What I did like about Slimane for Dior though, despite the limitations of the silhouette is the out of the boardroom and off the yacht, messy approach to dress clothes. It restricted in one sense, but it also opened things up in another.
What do you think of Ozwald Boateng?
Oddly enough, the thing I like the most is his suiting (I think that the Saville Row connection really shines through). It's mostly nice and classic, but with enough "fashiony" elements to make it interesting. Not too familiar with his casual stuff, but what I've seen is alright, but not anything too thrilling for me (though I haven't seen them up close, which is usually absolutely crucial). His trousers kind of remind me of Comme des Gar??ons Homme Plus stuff, for what it's worth, and that's never a bad thing.
I have the utmost respect for good tailoring like Boateng's. His bespoke pieces are great.
Well-constructed menswear is a thing of beauty and does not get enough attention in fashion.
My mom and grandma sew on occasion, so maybe that's where I get my perspective.
I think clothing 'rules' are stupid, so I hate to fall in line. But I really can't get past high heels on men - for the purpose of being taller - which I assume is part of the case here. Nothing wrong with just being short.
Then again, I'm not crazy about his leggings, purse, or drapey dress either. So maybe I'm just uptight about gender roles. lol.
You know the thing is, it's not that I even like suits very much. To agree with the "rules" point, I bristle at it as a uniform. But I do think designing clothes is an art, so even if it's not for me, I can't deny a beautifully drawn and immaculately cut suit.
I don't want to diminish the point about Owens providing more choice, but I think that Kravitz outfit is more about people who just buy/wear something because it's what's happening. Which is weird for him. No matter what I think of Mr.Denise Huxtable in other regards, dude is usually well turned-out and dresses to what suits him. This is simply some terrible styling.
It's a good point about gender roles. I can't imagine I'd like the exact same outfit on a woman either.
You guys normally see people wearing stuff like that (Kravitz) in public or in magazines? It looks strictly runway style to me. Is this really what's happening in the big cities?
i definitely see bad clothing choices like kravitz's here in san francisco and la all the time
There was that shot of Kravitz in LA where he was posing like a shemale Hendrix with feather boas and the like. I remember the interviewer who was with him at the time had to really struggle not to laugh. Srs, it was a grave look for anyone, anywhere.
Interesting points. Of course, I want to argue with them!
1) Yes, fashion sales WAY outstrip books and music sales. And books and music have more IP protections than fashion. But I'm not sure there's a cause and effect relationship - in that I don't think the IP issue is the cause of the lower sales for books, music, art. Etc.
The real cause? Shopping at Forever 21 is FUN! Reading books is booooring....
2) Yes, the loose IP protection on fashion designs has allowed the proliferation of knock-off 'fast fashion'. And the sales figures for Forever 21, H&M, etc. are immense. But, is that a good thing? The garment industry is notoriously destructive to the environment and labor. All this consumption and closets bursting with clothes we don't even wear is ridiculous. Not necessarily something others should want to emulate??
3) And, somewhat contrary to her point, iron clad IP protection, enforced with an iron fist can also be VERY beneficial to some industries. Monsanto and it's insane ownership of seeds comes to mind. Which, is obviously not a good thing. But, what was my point?? I dunno. Well, it's that Monsanto makes buckets of money.
I just don't know how much the level of IP protection fashion gets is that related to the innovation of the people in the industry, and its financial successes.
But then again, I have no idea what I'm talking about! lol.
Need to stick to talking about shoes. I got some cute house slippers recently.
I love this outfit. The colours are amazing and I love that elegant forests-of-Italy look.
Then the shoes. Just awful. Way to ruin an amazing look.
Black pumps? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Ah well.
Ha ha. That's totally a scroll-down fug, as they say. I could think of a million other shoe styles / colors that I would wear before those big, black pumps. I think even pink moon boots would look better.
That being said, I'm loving all the sweaters recently. AND, I, just yesterday, figured out how to knit a cable (yeah, I know, it's really easy - lol).
Any other knitters here? I also tried to teach myself European style, but was having a lot of trouble. My Gramma used to knit Euro style, and she was lightening fast.
Too OTT, or cool? I think shoes is one area where you can go all out. Also, I often think the light-up gimmick is just silly, but for the booties, I think it actually adds to the aesthetic. These shoes and boots are totally rad to me:
Damn those are awesome!
Stolen from Luxirare's blog. The shoes are Anestasia Radevitch(?sp).
LOL - I can definitely see how you'd think that! They're kind of cyber-ice-skate-doilies.
I LOVE the stockings best too. Although, just looking at them makes anal-retentive side cringe. I'd probably spend 2 hours putting them on to make sure all the squares were lined up properly, and were arranged symmetrically. I have seamed stockings I never wear, since putting them on involves too much twisting around, staring at myself backwards in the mirror to make sure the seams are even.
I love the left outfit, love it. The colours, the shape, her hair.
But AHG! the purse is all wrong, all wrong. She and her friend need to swap.
i agree. it's a very simple & striking ensemble and it works perfectly (those blocky heels are amazing), and then there is that damn purse that looks like it's one of those hanging rope plant holders that you'd see in the three's company apartment.
Comments
Ha!
Dwyhajlo, you know you're stuff, holmes! You in the industry?
I'm realizing now how much of a casual appreciater / "I like what I like and have no idea who designed it unless I see a logo" kinda guy I am.
I know it's all about the name in this industry, but do you honestly feel this stuff is put-together well enough to justify at least part of the ridiculous price?
*logo/tag
Heh, thanks. I'm only sorta-kinda in the industry - I've designed a few things for myself and some friends, but other than that I'm just a hobbyist. I've thought of doing some of my own stuff, but that's more than a full-time job, and being in school/working as a pharmacist doesn't leave as much time as I'd want or need. Maybe sometime in the future I'll do something with it.
It really depends on a lot of things. For the most part, you aren't really paying for "quality" per se*, rather you're paying for a specific style, an aesthetic, materials that are exotic/technical/rare, etc. If you take a look at the cost per unit for some of the materials used by the high fashion industry, and then compare it to what you'd see at a fast-fashion place like Zara or H&M, you can start to see why the costs are so much greater. In addition, being in the vanguard often means that your customer base is limited, so you don't really have the advantage of the economies of scale or the access to high volume production that say H&M has.
For example, during the 80's everyone was putting out cheap stuff with their brand on it and selling it at larger national chains, and YSL put out a line of towels with like Target or someone similar. Someone from YSL remarked that if they had put out the towels on their own, it would have cost a ridiculous amount of money (like quadruple the price or something).
That being said, yeah, a lot of the time the prices can get quite ridiculous. My philosophy's always been one of quality (in an abstract sense) over quantity. I would rather have a closet with 20 things that I'd want to wear every day, than a closet with 100 things that I hate or that don't fit properly, etc. etc. I find that if you bide your time, watch sales, and only buy stuff that you absolutely LOVE, then you really can negate a lot of the excess cost.
*I also want to say that there are a few "artisanal" brands lately that make very expensive stuff with extremely esoteric production details, exotic materials, and very good construction (and prices to match). It's the sort of thing where you have to see it in person and touch it to really "get it", and I like that personal approach to fashion.
EDIT: Holy smokes, sorry for the tl;dr post.
I appreciate this and don't necessarily disagree - I think the whole skinny jeans and cardigan thing goes back to him and that's not going anywhere soon.
What I did like about Slimane for Dior though, despite the limitations of the silhouette is the out of the boardroom and off the yacht, messy approach to dress clothes. It restricted in one sense, but it also opened things up in another.
What do you think of Ozwald Boateng?
This is absolute truth - last winter, I got a Marc Jacobs skirt and sweater for less than $150 just by waiting for end-of-season sales. They are both classic timeless cuts and styles. I watched a pair of $350+ BCBG sandals all summer three years ago and finally got them for less than $200. I still wear them.
If you are into this season's looks, it might be harder, but if you lean toward simpler, well-made classics, end of season sales are your very good friend.
"Sensible heels." I like the button detail.
I need to wear this skirt more often. Apologies for the poor photo quality.
ahahahaha, so gross.
Oddly enough, the thing I like the most is his suiting (I think that the Saville Row connection really shines through). It's mostly nice and classic, but with enough "fashiony" elements to make it interesting. Not too familiar with his casual stuff, but what I've seen is alright, but not anything too thrilling for me (though I haven't seen them up close, which is usually absolutely crucial). His trousers kind of remind me of Comme des Gar??ons Homme Plus stuff, for what it's worth, and that's never a bad thing.
Well-constructed menswear is a thing of beauty and does not get enough attention in fashion.
My mom and grandma sew on occasion, so maybe that's where I get my perspective.
Ignore the goofy model - this kit is superb.
Can this be considered casual?
I'm a fan.
I think clothing 'rules' are stupid, so I hate to fall in line. But I really can't get past high heels on men - for the purpose of being taller - which I assume is part of the case here. Nothing wrong with just being short.
Then again, I'm not crazy about his leggings, purse, or drapey dress either. So maybe I'm just uptight about gender roles. lol.
I don't want to diminish the point about Owens providing more choice, but I think that Kravitz outfit is more about people who just buy/wear something because it's what's happening. Which is weird for him. No matter what I think of Mr.Denise Huxtable in other regards, dude is usually well turned-out and dresses to what suits him. This is simply some terrible styling.
It's a good point about gender roles. I can't imagine I'd like the exact same outfit on a woman either.
There was that shot of Kravitz in LA where he was posing like a shemale Hendrix with feather boas and the like. I remember the interviewer who was with him at the time had to really struggle not to laugh. Srs, it was a grave look for anyone, anywhere.
Interesting points. Of course, I want to argue with them!
1) Yes, fashion sales WAY outstrip books and music sales. And books and music have more IP protections than fashion. But I'm not sure there's a cause and effect relationship - in that I don't think the IP issue is the cause of the lower sales for books, music, art. Etc.
The real cause? Shopping at Forever 21 is FUN! Reading books is booooring....
2) Yes, the loose IP protection on fashion designs has allowed the proliferation of knock-off 'fast fashion'. And the sales figures for Forever 21, H&M, etc. are immense. But, is that a good thing? The garment industry is notoriously destructive to the environment and labor. All this consumption and closets bursting with clothes we don't even wear is ridiculous. Not necessarily something others should want to emulate??
3) And, somewhat contrary to her point, iron clad IP protection, enforced with an iron fist can also be VERY beneficial to some industries. Monsanto and it's insane ownership of seeds comes to mind. Which, is obviously not a good thing. But, what was my point?? I dunno. Well, it's that Monsanto makes buckets of money.
I just don't know how much the level of IP protection fashion gets is that related to the innovation of the people in the industry, and its financial successes.
But then again, I have no idea what I'm talking about! lol.
Need to stick to talking about shoes. I got some cute house slippers recently.
The Settlement
Then the shoes. Just awful. Way to ruin an amazing look.
Black pumps? NOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Ah well.
That being said, I'm loving all the sweaters recently. AND, I, just yesterday, figured out how to knit a cable (yeah, I know, it's really easy - lol).
Any other knitters here? I also tried to teach myself European style, but was having a lot of trouble. My Gramma used to knit Euro style, and she was lightening fast.
Damn those are awesome!
Stolen from Luxirare's blog. The shoes are Anestasia Radevitch(?sp).
I actually like the shoes, but the heels and front fenders are too wild for me.
I LOVE the stockings best too. Although, just looking at them makes anal-retentive side cringe. I'd probably spend 2 hours putting them on to make sure all the squares were lined up properly, and were arranged symmetrically. I have seamed stockings I never wear, since putting them on involves too much twisting around, staring at myself backwards in the mirror to make sure the seams are even.
But AHG! the purse is all wrong, all wrong. She and her friend need to swap.
Agreed, everything else is pretty much perfect though. The shape, the volume...awesome.
i agree. it's a very simple & striking ensemble and it works perfectly (those blocky heels are amazing), and then there is that damn purse that looks like it's one of those hanging rope plant holders that you'd see in the three's company apartment.