It's not so much about "top 20" - I'm not sure he'd make my top 20 anyway - but to me, he just hasn't held his TEAM above the rest with his considerable gifts. He's a very very good role player. Dirk rarely changes the dynamic of a game - he either shows up or he doesn't. He's a known quantity. He can go on a run, shoot the lights out, scrap and play hard... but at the end of the day he always needs - the Mavs always need - something substantial in addition to him to go places. He's not the franchise player that you guys elevate him to.
I think the comparison to McGrady up-page is fair. And look at the career of that dude, who is immensely talented. It's littered with "almost". And I think McGrady is better than Dirk in terms of raw potential. At least, thought he was years back.
You guys have a lot of love for the home team. That's all good. But to me, he's not on the level.
Nash is better, IMO. It's hard to compare two very different players like that, but Nash changes a game with his mere presence. You build a team around that guy. Not Dirk.
How is that ridiculous? when McGrady first came in the league, plenty of folks thought he had crazy potential. Of course Dirk has ended up being a better player overall. But I think both players are guilty of not quite fulfilling the hype around them.
The proof is in the pudding man. You don't have to convince me - year in and year out, the Mavs remain a slightly above-average team that won't see a championship until they either cash in the player you're touting for someone that can actually get them there or completely rebuild the team from scratch.
You don't have to convince me - year in and year out, the Mavs remain a slightly above-average team that won't see a championship until they either cash in the player you're touting for someone that can actually get them here or completely rebuild the team from scratch.
The best thing that could have happened to Dork would have been if Cubes had traded him to LA for Shaq in '04, so he could have become Kobe's second banana.
THAT is why it's like shooting fish in a barrel with dirk. there's this widely held belief that he's just gonna explode NEXT season. It's been going on since the dude came into the L. Within the last three seasons, he's slowed down. Sure, he's improved his jumpshot percentage, but that's what all slashing scorers do when they lose a step to stay relevant. The trouble with Dirk is he never established himself as an elite 7 foot slasher, 7 foot super quick post player, or crazy-hops 7 foot interior defender-- all things that analysts predicted he would develop.
^^^it's this bullshit.^^^ he's an easy target to make fun of, as JP stated, because of his unfulfilled potential.
Dirk isn't anywhere near done. He's got a good six years left. The only dudes that score more in the L this year are 'Bron, Kobe and Wade. That's impressive. He can get his shot off with ease against any 4. His game is beautiful.
He's not that dude that can carry a team. So far Kobe and Lebron aren't that either (one Finals loss each). Wade is seemingly. Garnett and Pierce and Jesus S needed each other. Duncan w/ D-Rob then TP and Manu. The axe-grinding by you all is fun. Don't act like this Pavlovian tepidity isn't a two-way street. Old modes were easily slipped-into all around.
Hey. I'm GP. Still here. Still rooting for Dirk and the Mavs. F*ck w/ me.
I think Kobe showed last year that he can pretty well carry a team. Wasn't anything going to deny those Celtics.
Garnett can't do it alone, but he's way above Dirk's level.
I think Nowitsky is a great player.... I just don't think his stats tell the whole tale. At the end what JimBeam said is pretty much exactly how I feel about big hommie.
I think Kobe showed last year that he can pretty well carry a team.
Garnett can't do it alone, but he's way above Dirk's level.
I think Nowitsky is a great player.... I just don't think his stats tell the whole tale. At the end what JimBeam said is pretty much exactly how I feel about big hommie.
This doesn't seem well-reasoned to me. 06 mavs and 08 Lakers. Dirk and Kobe, who had a better surrounding cast? Both teams lost. Garnett? One Twolves team made a WC Finals. Now all of a sudden he's really that much better than Dirk because of the great situation that came together in Boston last year? Dirk and the Mavs used to work the F*ck out of that dude...in the Playoffs. Dirk has been the driving force behind 9 years of 50 plus win seasons. YOu guys want to crucify him because seemingly it's some flaw of his that the Mavs couldn't overcome the Spurs dynasty PLUS shaq and KObe plus that one f*cking Finals series that just didn't go our way but was close in every aspect.
His career arc will go down real similar to a player like Karl Malone. No rings, shitloads of stats and no one cares and he ends up the butt of a joke. Shit, I'm from Louisiana and I don't really like Karl Malone. Legit Top 50 player though. Of All-Time. Dirk is a no-brainer HOFer already.
I think the comparison to McGrady up-page is fair.
Comparing anyone who helped take their team to the Finals with T-Mac is unfair. McGrady is going to play far less than 82 games any season, and that's not going to include the playoffs -- as he'll no doubt make the executive decision to shut himself down before that.
I'm actually trying to not talk out of my ass here, and WhiteTea's right - the comparison to McGrady isn't really fair to Dirk precisely because Dirk doesn't "shut down"... but McGrady is/was talented as F*ck.
That said, I feel your pain - here you have a good player who is not going to win you rings. I haven't seen too many Mavs games this season but the ones I have seen it was all about JET. That's who I'd keep. What do you do? Suffer the next 6 years and put Dirk peacefully out to pasture? Deal him while he's still got some juice? I say the latter. It hurts, but it must be done.
I'm actually trying to not talk out of my ass here, and WhiteTea's right - the comparison to McGrady isn't really fair to Dirk precisely because Dirk doesn't "shut down"... but McGrady is/was talented as F*ck.
That said, I feel your pain - here you have a good player who is not going to win you rings. I haven't seen too many Mavs games this season but the ones I have seen it was all about JET. That's who I'd keep. What do you do? Suffer the next 6 years and put Dirk peacefully out to pasture? Deal him while he's still got some juice? I say the latter. It hurts, but it must be done.
Huh? 4th scorer in the League b/w put out to pasture? JET is older than Dirk. JET is a role player.
You guys are comparing Dirk to mythical players that don't exist. No he's not Kobe or Lebron or a young physical freak like Dwight Howard. He compares favorably to every other player in the L. End of story.
Comments
THIS IS A LEAGUE OF STYLE
So you truly think there are 20 players in the NBA better than Dirk.
Is he in your top 30?? 40??
I guess he did only win one MVP...is Steve "2 MVP" Nash in your top 20??
I hear they may change their name to the GQBA
I think the comparison to McGrady up-page is fair. And look at the career of that dude, who is immensely talented. It's littered with "almost". And I think McGrady is better than Dirk in terms of raw potential. At least, thought he was years back.
You guys have a lot of love for the home team. That's all good. But to me, he's not on the level.
Nash is better, IMO. It's hard to compare two very different players like that, but Nash changes a game with his mere presence. You build a team around that guy. Not Dirk.
4th in the NBA in scoring
Higher FG% than Kobe
Higher 3 pt. FG% than Lebron/Wade/Kobe
Top 10 in the NBA in Defensive Rebounds.
Yet somehow not a Top 20 player.
Your hoop ignorance is showing.....badly.
Would you put him anywhere near any of the players you mentioned? No. He's not even close to on that level. If he is, then where are the results.
ridiculous......seriously......do you watch the NBA??
Intangibles
The proof is in the pudding man. You don't have to convince me - year in and year out, the Mavs remain a slightly above-average team that won't see a championship until they either cash in the player you're touting for someone that can actually get them there or completely rebuild the team from scratch.
Results??
He has as many championships as Lebron.
Teams win championships.....not individuals......even MJ will tell you that.
But I understand the "fun" in hating on the guy....he's the Vanilla Ice of the NBA.
The best thing that could have happened to Dork would have been if Cubes had traded him to LA for Shaq in '04, so he could have become Kobe's second banana.
Lebron will win championships before he's done.
Dirk IS almost done.
That comparison is silly, you know that.
Balding middle aged white men living life vicariously through Rap and Sweater Vests.
^^^it's this bullshit.^^^
he's an easy target to make fun of, as JP stated, because of his unfulfilled potential.
He's not that dude that can carry a team. So far Kobe and Lebron aren't that either (one Finals loss each). Wade is seemingly. Garnett and Pierce and Jesus S needed each other. Duncan w/ D-Rob then TP and Manu. The axe-grinding by you all is fun. Don't act like this Pavlovian tepidity isn't a two-way street. Old modes were easily slipped-into all around.
Hey. I'm GP. Still here. Still rooting for Dirk and the Mavs. F*ck w/ me.
Garnett can't do it alone, but he's way above Dirk's level.
I think Nowitsky is a great player.... I just don't think his stats tell the whole tale. At the end what JimBeam said is pretty much exactly how I feel about big hommie.
This doesn't seem well-reasoned to me. 06 mavs and 08 Lakers. Dirk and Kobe, who had a better surrounding cast? Both teams lost. Garnett? One Twolves team made a WC Finals. Now all of a sudden he's really that much better than Dirk because of the great situation that came together in Boston last year? Dirk and the Mavs used to work the F*ck out of that dude...in the Playoffs. Dirk has been the driving force behind 9 years of 50 plus win seasons. YOu guys want to crucify him because seemingly it's some flaw of his that the Mavs couldn't overcome the Spurs dynasty PLUS shaq and KObe plus that one f*cking Finals series that just didn't go our way but was close in every aspect.
His career arc will go down real similar to a player like Karl Malone. No rings, shitloads of stats and no one cares and he ends up the butt of a joke. Shit, I'm from Louisiana and I don't really like Karl Malone. Legit Top 50 player though. Of All-Time. Dirk is a no-brainer HOFer already.
The 08 Lakers had a bunch of humps.
Comparing anyone who helped take their team to the Finals with T-Mac is unfair. McGrady is going to play far less than 82 games any season, and that's not going to include the playoffs -- as he'll no doubt make the executive decision to shut himself down before that.
Dude...the '08 Lakers had Pau Gasol
And a noted expert above proclaimed the Mav's best player in '06 as "Pau Lite".
Sigh. You're giving me nothing. I thought my response was fairly on-point.
That guy hardly ever plays a full season.
Dirk has missed next-to-no-time in his career.
you are criminally redundant and without real knowledge of the game.
That said, I feel your pain - here you have a good player who is not going to win you rings. I haven't seen too many Mavs games this season but the ones I have seen it was all about JET. That's who I'd keep. What do you do? Suffer the next 6 years and put Dirk peacefully out to pasture? Deal him while he's still got some juice? I say the latter. It hurts, but it must be done.
No there isn't.
Huh? 4th scorer in the League b/w put out to pasture? JET is older than Dirk. JET is a role player.
You guys are comparing Dirk to mythical players that don't exist. No he's not Kobe or Lebron or a young physical freak like Dwight Howard. He compares favorably to every other player in the L. End of story.