Rap doing more or less well... there is always good and bad music. There are always people pushing boundaries, sometimes too far other times not enough. There is great commercial music, and boring underground music. And the other way around.
Ok. I think there are a lot of examples that are being addressed separately, and diminished through the logic of "it's nothing new." And I agree, that if you isolate any of the examples I'm talking about it's nothing new. But, I feel like the climate of hip hop music as a whole is healthier than it has been for a while because there are all of these isolated examples existing simultaneously. Maybe I'm just making the same point again. Regardless though, I offer up my opinion because I'm interested to know what everyone else's opinion is.
If Young Phonics was agreeing with me I don't know why he was saying I should write for the Voice or Pitchfork because I'm "that disconnected."
I would say to that: you're lumping together artists that are only tangentially similar in that they're part of "the new thing" (and some others, like Wayne, aren't even in the same lane).
You're trying to point towards a groundswell, a movement of interrelated music that you feel is "more healthy" but that's just totally overanalyzing it and drawing connections where there are none. Look - if Kanye does something, it'll ripple out. As trends change, rappers will latch onto them. Lupe Fiasco was writing murder raps before the skateboarding. I'm sure you could dig out similar material from some of the artists you mentioned.
As far as "hip hop music as a whole is healthier"... I just don't know what that even means. Are the artists themselves more empowered? Possibly. Is there more artistic freedom right now? I'd say yes, if only because the record industry is looking for ANYTHING that will catch on. Is there more money in the game? Certainly not. Does your definition of "healthy" have to do with any of the above trends? I have no clue.
This is like the kind of half-baked "Hip-Hop theory" that used to end up on college term papers at 3am after a night of smoking blunts, procrastinating, and listening to the Fugees. File next to "Examples Of Socially Aware Rap Music Post-2000 (except stuff that's like mean and gangster and stuff)".
Why is everything out of your mouth so consistently stupid and stuck up?
Because you want it it be. Seriously, instead of finding a way to make me into your whipping post it might be more interesting to find a way to be engaging. If you disagree, ask a question first instead of launching into some tirade that makes you feel like you're beating me at something.
I'm not talking about 'a critic' as in any music critic. The fact that I said "Some dudes on here," should have indicated that I was referring to critics who post on this forum, and not critics in general. I was thinking of Odub when I made that comment. And yes, some people on here have better opinions than others. Young Phonics' opinion is neither better nor good.
And, to further address my original point: things are different right now. If you think the state of rap is the same now as 30 years ago you're not seeing the bigger picture. Spoonie G's mixtape didn't have 25,000 downloads the first day it was put out. The four dudes that I listed originally are getting a lot of shine right now, and none of them even have an album that you can buy in stores (with the exception of Cudi's single).
Wayne and Kanye are doing the kind of stuff that they couldn't have done early on in their career. And they're doing stuff that doesn't have much of a precedent. How many songs was Wayne on last year? How many songs of his own did he record?
I think some music really does last longer, but it happens at a personal level, and less so at an institutional/historical level. I'm not hoping for the next illmatic, or the next classic album. But, I do want to hear rappers that are speaking on more than the status quo. That's why I'm excited about dudes making mixtapes and catching so much fame off of them. They arrive through different avenues, and thus share different experiences. That's why I started listening to Living Legends 10 years ago, I just wanted to hear people rapping about a broader range of subjects. And, that's why I started listening to Anticon, it's just a different voice. As far as I know rapping is about sharing your experiences with your audience. I enjoy a lot of the stuff that's out there, but it doesn't mean I want to hear the same thing all the time.
For Faux Rillz, I really don't think you should be talking, because you clearly haven't listened to the dudes I posted up if you think it's college rap. If you want to further your missions to insult me,then fine, but take that shit to a seperate thread. I know that your fear of life keeps you shut in most of the time, but you're more disconnected than I could have ever imagined if you think any of that stuff is 'college rap'. But hey, being bald, old, and sexless since you were born does things to people that I wouldn't understand.
Did anyone actually read this temper tantrum of hemold's?
"Look Freeway, I think you need to buck the Status Quo. Start rapping about something DIFFERENT.. Think outside the box. Get a little social awareness going. Do something totally oddball. Show up at a poetry open mic with a George Bush mask on and kick something totally fresh."
I don't know where else to post this, but I just moved into a new place and I have been receiving letters to somebody named Dudu. I can't remember the last name. Also, since I had to update my address for my Rue Morgue subscription I had them change my name to Balls Of Zeus.
Anyways, whats important is that somebody named Dudu lived in my house.
I didn't mean to de-rail this thread, which was going really well, but I had to get that out there somehow. Dudu, lol. ok i feel better.
HEY GARY THERE'S A FAMOUS AFRICAN MUSICIAN NAMED DUDU PUKWANA.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S REALLY FUNNY?
PIANIST SOUNDS LIKE PENIS.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
as far as rap music is concerned, where can i hear something truly new and innovative ?
808's and Heartbreak, and all of the stuff I listed in my first post.
Dude, 808s and Heartbreak is a hot mess of a record, and I speak as someone who likes Kanye. When he's making good records, that is.
Wale's pretty good, but I wouldn't say that he's "new and innovative" by a long stretch, unless rhyming over old Dilla beats and Justice tracks are what passes for new and innovative in the '09. His last couple of tapes have been entertaining listens all the same, though.
Drake and Chip the Ripper are unknown quantities to me, and Kid Cudi hasn't knocked me out thus far, but I'll give 'em a listen.
Beneath all the internet hype about Jay Electronica, at the very minimum he's a solid emcee who's quietly swimming against the tide without all the self-regarding bullshit and craven pursuit of hipster cachet that you'd get from a dilettante like Lupe Fiasco. In fact, I'll nail my colours to the mast right here and say that, imho, he's one of the most original voices to emerge in hip-hop over the last two or three years.
I have no idea what's hot in the world of rap nor do I really care, but I have to hand it to hemol for sticking to his guns and sparking a hillarious debate. That WC&OD record cover Photoshop job is going to give me nightmares.
Straight up: if it took more work to get a mixtape from Kid Cudi - you had to find a friend of a friend who had a copy and trying to get him to make you a dub vs. clicking a link - you think dude would be getting 25,000 looks?
Yeah, but we'll never know will we? It isn't about who is better, it's about distribution, and people hearing your music.
I'm not suggesting distribution isn't important but one shouldn't presume that greater ease of distribution = greater appreciation of music, let alone = greater quality of music.
And in any case, how many actual sales do free downloads actually translate into? Most artists would likely rather have 25,000 units sold over a year than 25,000 units downloaded freely in a day.
Let's face facts - rap of this age is just not innovative music.
the lines are much more blurred more now. r&b ( rap & bullshit ) POP
looking back, late 90s were so much better vs. todays new club crap.
t-pain, lil wayne, young this, lil that>>> if anything, its become sooo formulaic its just one big song. cadence. tone. beats. hooks> the chop n screw vocal hook ( marley marl based)
just saw that jim jones video... once again, money money money is the topic. come the F*ck on.
its crazy to me that after all rap has seen and done, cats on here really think terms such as "new" and "innovative" come to mind.
dude, lil wayne's verse on the "don't touch me" remix alone proves dudes an MC, lumping him in w/ "bullshit" is really unfair. he's killed q-tip, busta, big daddy kane, raekwon, game and nas on posse tracks.
the little dudes ill, him and T.I might be the best mc's doing it right now.
Comments
Ok. I think there are a lot of examples that are being addressed separately, and diminished through the logic of "it's nothing new." And I agree, that if you isolate any of the examples I'm talking about it's nothing new. But, I feel like the climate of hip hop music as a whole is healthier than it has been for a while because there are all of these isolated examples existing simultaneously. Maybe I'm just making the same point again. Regardless though, I offer up my opinion because I'm interested to know what everyone else's opinion is.
If Young Phonics was agreeing with me I don't know why he was saying I should write for the Voice or Pitchfork because I'm "that disconnected."
You're trying to point towards a groundswell, a movement of interrelated music that you feel is "more healthy" but that's just totally overanalyzing it and drawing connections where there are none. Look - if Kanye does something, it'll ripple out. As trends change, rappers will latch onto them. Lupe Fiasco was writing murder raps before the skateboarding. I'm sure you could dig out similar material from some of the artists you mentioned.
As far as "hip hop music as a whole is healthier"... I just don't know what that even means. Are the artists themselves more empowered? Possibly. Is there more artistic freedom right now? I'd say yes, if only because the record industry is looking for ANYTHING that will catch on. Is there more money in the game? Certainly not. Does your definition of "healthy" have to do with any of the above trends? I have no clue.
This is like the kind of half-baked "Hip-Hop theory" that used to end up on college term papers at 3am after a night of smoking blunts, procrastinating, and listening to the Fugees. File next to "Examples Of Socially Aware Rap Music Post-2000 (except stuff that's like mean and gangster and stuff)".
Did anyone actually read this temper tantrum of hemold's?
I read the part where he said he started listening to Anticon because they were white.
"Look Freeway, I think you need to buck the Status Quo. Start rapping about something DIFFERENT.. Think outside the box. Get a little social awareness going. Do something totally oddball. Show up at a poetry open mic with a George Bush mask on and kick something totally fresh."
Anyways, whats important is that somebody named Dudu lived in my house.
I didn't mean to de-rail this thread, which was going really well, but I had to get that out there somehow. Dudu, lol. ok i feel better.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT'S REALLY FUNNY?
PIANIST SOUNDS LIKE PENIS.
Dude, 808s and Heartbreak is a hot mess of a record, and I speak as someone who likes Kanye. When he's making good records, that is.
Wale's pretty good, but I wouldn't say that he's "new and innovative" by a long stretch, unless rhyming over old Dilla beats and Justice tracks are what passes for new and innovative in the '09. His last couple of tapes have been entertaining listens all the same, though.
Drake and Chip the Ripper are unknown quantities to me, and Kid Cudi hasn't knocked me out thus far, but I'll give 'em a listen.
Beneath all the internet hype about Jay Electronica, at the very minimum he's a solid emcee who's quietly swimming against the tide without all the self-regarding bullshit and craven pursuit of hipster cachet that you'd get from a dilettante like Lupe Fiasco. In fact, I'll nail my colours to the mast right here and say that, imho, he's one of the most original voices to emerge in hip-hop over the last two or three years.
If you are so bold then name your first child Dudu. You won't will you? No, because in English the name Dudu is hilarious.
I'm not suggesting distribution isn't important but one shouldn't presume that greater ease of distribution = greater appreciation of music, let alone = greater quality of music.
And in any case, how many actual sales do free downloads actually translate into? Most artists would likely rather have 25,000 units sold over a year than 25,000 units downloaded freely in a day.
There.
I said it.
Balding pattern and a banjo and it's a wrap.
the lines are much more blurred more now.
r&b ( rap & bullshit ) POP
looking back, late 90s were so much better vs. todays new club crap.
t-pain, lil wayne, young this, lil that>>> if anything, its become sooo formulaic its just one big song. cadence. tone. beats. hooks> the chop n screw vocal hook ( marley marl based)
just saw that jim jones video... once again, money money money is the topic. come the F*ck on.
its crazy to me that after all rap has seen and done, cats on here really think terms such as "new" and "innovative" come to mind.
the little dudes ill, him and T.I might be the best mc's doing it right now.
also, can't wait for the freeway/jake one album.
peace,xavier