HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I still don't get these dudes trying to act like it was some regional obscurity and tend to think it's an attempt to make excuses for the fact that they were hating at the time.
No hating or overrating on anybody's part can change the fact that at the time of its release RD didn't really reach the Texas rap audience in any sort of meaningful way.
Enter the Wu did. Ready to Die did. Reasonable Doubt didn't.
how, at 13 years of age, would you be considered a remotely reliable source for what was banging out of cars?
How would I not be?
I suppose it is entirely possible that you were running the streets, showing out at the hot spots, and clocking the scene after curfew.
But I am going to assume that you were at home with your folks or at school most of the time. How wrong am I?
Walked home from school, lived in an urban area, never mind that uh you know teenagers tend to be rap's biggest fanbase. In public high school you get a good idea of 'whats hot whats not.'
How did Reasonable Doubt do on sales compared to Bone Thugs? Barely compared. Do or Die? Not even close. All Eyez On Me? Life After Death? Forget about it.
I don't think people are hatting on it so to speak I think its more of a regional perspective. Some albums hit across the board and some don't. Reasonable Doubt just didn't have the same impact as the classics mentioned. I would agree that Bone was killing it in the midwest at that time too, and that is definately because of regional support/fanboys. At the same time I can definately see Bone Thugs not being as big of a deal in NYC as in the midwest or westcoast.
While we're on the subject, Jay-z is apparently performing a show with only tracks from "Reasonable Doubt". I heard this on LA radio yesterday. What's the reasoning behind this one? Does he just wanna give the fans what they want? Does he wanna cement this as a rap classic much like the more widely-known Illmatic? Does he want more royalty checks coming through when he really retires? what's your perspective?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I don't think people are hatting on it so to speak I think its more of a regional perspective. Some albums hit across the board and some don't. Reasonable Doubt just didn't have the same impact as the classics mentioned. I would agree that Bone was killing it in the midwest at that time too, and that is definately because of regional support/fanboys. At the same time I can definately see Bone Thugs not being as big of a deal in NYC as in the midwest or westcoast.
San Antonio loves Bone like no other place on Earth.
RDoubt was just a local record but was crazy influential on the NYC game. It slid by alot of cats who were reliant on radio and MTV for their hiphop. Ralph Mcdaniel VMB repped Jay hard at the time. This album wasnt a national hit at all, but that doesnt diminish its place in history. Shit is no different from the UGK album which didnt bump hard in NYC.
Jay-Z wouldnt be doing this lp song for song @ Radio city Music Hall if it wasnt a classic. Iowa can sleep all it wants.
RDoubt was just a local record but was crazy influential on the NYC game. It slid by alot of cats who were reliant on radio and MTV for their hiphop. Ralph Mcdaniel VMB repped Jay hard at the time. This album wasnt a national hit at all, but that doesnt diminish its place in history. Shit is no different from the UGK album which didnt bump hard in NYC.
Ain't No... and Feelin It were huge on MTV/BET at the time, and the former was played on pop radio here I think... it was kinda underground for a minute but seemed to cross over pretty quickly from what I remember (and I'm not in NYC either)
I notice no one else mentions what their first tape was.
They wouldnt want to admit they got off to a bad start. Or they missed the bus in terms of taste.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
it was kinda underground for a minute
Like I said further up the thread, "Reasonable Doubt" was an indie when it first dropped. People seem to have forgotten this, or didn't know in the first place. Things only really went nuts with it when they did the joint venture with Def Jam, and Russell Simmons has said that was because it was the biggest record to hit New York for years. In the UK, the first three albums actually came out on an indie as well, Northwestside, which in turn did a deal with Arista.
Like I said further up the thread, "Reasonable Doubt" was an indie when it first dropped. People seem to have forgotten this, or didn't know in the first place. Things only really went nuts with it when they did the joint venture with Def Jam, and Russell Simmons has said that was because it was the biggest record to hit New York for years. In the UK, the first three albums actually came out on an indie as well, Northwestside, which in turn did a deal with Arista.
I wouldn't overestimate the indieness of it, either... when it was about to come out the Clue tape I heard some of the album tracks on initially was strictly major label rap/R&B otherwise
Like I said further up the thread, "Reasonable Doubt" was an indie when it first dropped. People seem to have forgotten this, or didn't know in the first place. Things only really went nuts with it when they did the joint venture with Def Jam, and Russell Simmons has said that was because it was the biggest record to hit New York for years. In the UK, the first three albums actually came out on an indie as well, Northwestside, which in turn did a deal with Arista.
I wouldn't overestimate the indieness of it, either... when it was about to come out the Clue tape I heard some of the album tracks on initially was strictly major label rap/R&B otherwise
Yeah, it was on Priority which, while technically an indie, isn't that distinguishable from a major in the rap landscape of that time. It was big enough that I didn't have any sense of it being an indepenendent release at the time and, in fact, never considered it in that light until I read Doc McCoy's post today.
I think it was the two dots over the 'y' in his name on the sleeve of the OG RD and accompanying singles that kept Jay underground
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
it was kinda underground for a minute
Like I said further up the thread, "Reasonable Doubt" was an indie when it first dropped. People seem to have forgotten this, or didn't know in the first place. Things only really went nuts with it when they did the joint venture with Def Jam, and Russell Simmons has said that was because it was the biggest record to hit New York for years. In the UK, the first three albums actually came out on an indie as well, Northwestside, which in turn did a deal with Arista.
I wouldn't overestimate the indieness of it, either... when it was about to come out the Clue tape I heard some of the album tracks on initially was strictly major label rap/R&B otherwise
Yeah, but wasn't that because of how Dame was marketing it? He was going round acting like it was a major label joint, and trying to generate a major label-type buzz on it.
Comments
No hating or overrating on anybody's part can change the fact that at the time of its release RD didn't really reach the Texas rap audience in any sort of meaningful way.
Enter the Wu did. Ready to Die did. Reasonable Doubt didn't.
Walked home from school, lived in an urban area, never mind that uh you know teenagers tend to be rap's biggest fanbase. In public high school you get a good idea of 'whats hot whats not.'
How did Reasonable Doubt do on sales compared to Bone Thugs? Barely compared. Do or Die? Not even close. All Eyez On Me? Life After Death? Forget about it.
San Antonio loves Bone like no other place on Earth.
Jay-Z wouldnt be doing this lp song for song @ Radio city Music Hall if it wasnt a classic.
Iowa can sleep all it wants.
Jay-Z Heads might put RD > Illmatic.
Ain't No... and Feelin It were huge on MTV/BET at the time, and the former was played on pop radio here I think... it was kinda underground for a minute but seemed to cross over pretty quickly from what I remember (and I'm not in NYC either)
You mean if he didn't want it to be a classic
That was actually what I was thinking when I heard it on radio.
He's truly changed the game.
Then he started making great music, so people bothered with it.
Temporary Hip Hop Fan.
Niche hip-hop fan.
No doubt,son.
Rick James - Street Songs
That is, unless you want to talk about 8-track tapes.
They wouldnt want to admit they got off to a bad start. Or they missed the bus in terms of taste.
Like I said further up the thread, "Reasonable Doubt" was an indie when it first dropped. People seem to have forgotten this, or didn't know in the first place. Things only really went nuts with it when they did the joint venture with Def Jam, and Russell Simmons has said that was because it was the biggest record to hit New York for years. In the UK, the first three albums actually came out on an indie as well, Northwestside, which in turn did a deal with Arista.
Yes lord knows y'all were so cool when you were 8 yrs old listening to roy orbison.
I wouldn't overestimate the indieness of it, either... when it was about to come out the Clue tape I heard some of the album tracks on initially was strictly major label rap/R&B otherwise
Yeah, it was on Priority which, while technically an indie, isn't that distinguishable from a major in the rap landscape of that time. It was big enough that I didn't have any sense of it being an indepenendent release at the time and, in fact, never considered it in that light until I read Doc McCoy's post today.
Yeah, but wasn't that because of how Dame was marketing it? He was going round acting like it was a major label joint, and trying to generate a major label-type buzz on it.
This:
I have no recollection of actually listening to it, though--I just thought the cover was indescribably cool.
it had a similar theme to your bed sheets?