That's the inherent problem with the Stand Your Ground law. It provides cover for the shooter, aka the last man standing, because the dead victim cannot tell his/her side of the story.
That's the inherent problem with the Stand Your Ground law. It provides cover for the shooter, aka the last man standing, because the dead victim cannot tell his/her side of the story.
Perhaps. What in this case it doesn't make any sense. The 911 operator told him not to follow and told him to wait for the police. You hear Zimmerman on the tape saying OK. In the end, he goes looking for confrontation which should knock down any idea of even the need to stand your ground. Who's really standing their ground is the kid who probably felt he was being stalked.
Does anyone know if there is any more info of the Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend story? Was this proved to be true?
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
HarveyCanal said:
The Austin Police Department has an ugly history of killing young black men and no matter the shady circumstances surrounding their deaths, letting their officers get off scot free (even in cases that clearly point to unprovoked murder) has become the norm. In each case, the media (and even the so-called alternative media here) in turn helps them demonize the victims in order to quell public opinion and then the chief of police and even grand juries allow them to suppress any offending evidence. There's been a clear, consistent pattern of this over the past 15 years...and the end result, depsite plenty of public proest thus far, has been absolutely nothing in favor of the victims.
Living through said history makes me kinda numb to the Trayvon Martin story. On one hand, I want to rage and do what I can to demand that justice be served. On the other hand, what's the point? I can't think of anything I can do to make some power-wielding racists in Florida change their ways. But what does distinguish the Trayvon case from the APD cases that I'm more familiar with is that this Zimmerman dude isn't even a real cop. That the same establishment that protects crooked cops is also standing behind this douche does indeed alarm me. But then again, what to do about it?
sorry to keep posting these vids, but this guy joe oliver bugs the shit out of me, guy is so damn disengenuous:
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Big_Stacks said:
HarveyCanal said:
The Austin Police Department has an ugly history of killing young black men and no matter the shady circumstances surrounding their deaths, letting their officers get off scot free (even in cases that clearly point to unprovoked murder) has become the norm. In each case, the media (and even the so-called alternative media here) in turn helps them demonize the victims in order to quell public opinion and then the chief of police and even grand juries allow them to suppress any offending evidence. There's been a clear, consistent pattern of this over the past 15 years...and the end result, depsite plenty of public proest thus far, has been absolutely nothing in favor of the victims.
Living through said history makes me kinda numb to the Trayvon Martin story. On one hand, I want to rage and do what I can to demand that justice be served. On the other hand, what's the point? I can't think of anything I can do to make some power-wielding racists in Florida change their ways. But what does distinguish the Trayvon case from the APD cases that I'm more familiar with is that this Zimmerman dude isn't even a real cop. That the same establishment that protects crooked cops is also standing behind this douche does indeed alarm me. But then again, what to do about it?
sorry to keep posting these vids, but this guy joe oliver bugs the shit out of me, guy is so damn disengenuous:
I wonder what his motivation is? Do you think he's being paid?
he says he is a friend and neighbour of zimmerman doing this out of concern that zimmerman is being unfairly framed as a racist and an agressor by an overzealous media elite that is out for sensationalism and his criminal convtcion...
i have seen some professional obfuscators at work and this guy joe oliver is up there with the best of them. he should be paid for first rate bullshit he is spinning.
I think they should arrest him and charge him with Manslaughter 2. Probably release him on bail on house arrest or something until his trial. And if any affirmative defenses like self defense or stand your ground apply, then let him prove that he's entitled to it. It was a mistake for the police to not arrest him in the first place, the fact that a young man was dad and the circumstances of the incident so unclear warranted that it be treated as a homicide. In this instance the burden should be on the shooter to prove self defense.
Maybe it was in self defense, maybe it wasn't. That might only be known after a full investigation, or a trial or never. But trying to pass judgment now only benefits the race hustlers stirring up the pot and the racist trying to portray the kid as a thug. Fact is all the people doing the most talking, don't know anything.
the Washington Post article today claims that the police on the scene wanted to arrest him
but were over ruled by the State Attorney ,
sounds like strange s.o.p. to call the s.a. before making an arrest
maybe more ass covering
What makes me the maddest is not even that he's still walking free (although there's that), but that when he is eventually brought to trial (and I trust he will), all sorts of evidence - the gun itself, the shell casings, Zimmerman's clothing, a toxicology report - are lost to or tainted by time at this point.
I can't wait to see the medical records. His story of the altercation is pretty unbelievable
and if it weren't for the "race hustlers" Trayvon would be just another black child killed under mysterious circumstances. People really think that race has nothing to do with this. That, to me, is incredible.
What makes me the maddest is not even that he's still walking free (although there's that), but that when he is eventually brought to trial (and I trust he will), all sorts of evidence - the gun itself, the shell casings, Zimmerman's clothing, a toxicology report - are lost to or tainted by time at this point.
I can't wait to see the medical records. His story of the altercation is pretty unbelievable
and if it weren't for the "race hustlers" Trayvon would be just another black child killed under mysterious circumstances. People really think that race has nothing to do with this. That, to me, is incredible.
What kills me is people claiming this is complicated. This shit is simple. If Trayvon were white he would be alive. If Zimmerman didn't think he was dirty fucking harry Trayvon would be alive. If the police had acted responsibly Zimmerman would have been charged and it would have been treated like a criminal investigation from the start.
the Washington Post article today claims that the police on the scene wanted to arrest him
but were over ruled by the State Attorney ,
sounds like strange s.o.p. to call the s.a. before making an arrest
maybe more ass covering
FWIW Zimmerman's father is a retired Supreme Court judge. This is all speculation (cough) why it was handed over to the State Attorney - who has since removed himself from the case - but yeah. There's a lot of unanswered as to why this was handled so carelessly. Why were no pictures taken of his injuries, no toxicology test given, where are Zimmerman's clothes from that night, where is the medical report from his injuries, why was Trayvon kept in the morgue as a John Doe for days when they had ID'd him less than 8 hours after his killing? Shit doesn't add up.
YNOTin a studio apt mixing tuna with the ramen 417 Posts
I usally stear clear of these threads but as a central Florida resident here's my 2 cents or whatever. Not sure if the motive for George was based on race or the fact that he was simply mentally ill. His track record shows he is a certified nut job and at this point it's clear he is a threat to society no? A case could be made that there was a struggle for the gun but what kind of pussy brings a gun to a fist fight? If you can't throw up your hands and defend yourself you proabably shouldn't be chasing down hooded teenagers. Although it may not be proven that race did play a part had the shooter been black and the kid white the shooter would be rotting in a holding cell, fact. Whatever the case may be a harmeless kid is dead for no apparant reason. This went down in my backyard and if it was up to me we would be burning downtown Orlando and really turn this into a news story.
sorry to keep posting these vids, but this guy joe oliver bugs the shit out of me, guy is so damn disengenuous:
I wonder what his motivation is? Do you think he's being paid?
Pretty epic ethering of Joe Oliver by Lawrence O'Donnell and Charles Blow. Oliver admits that he's not really a close friend of Zimmerman and
that he believes in Z's innocence is based on a "gut feeling."
This is a case where race shouldn't even matter. More of an issue that a neighborhood "watch" guy tries to become a vigilante with a GUN. Some people I know on facebook have posted this picture.
WTF?!
Does anybody know about this case? It doesn't even makes sense to me. A picture with no story. These stories always gets so polarizing and it's a shame.
That thing is from 2007 I believe. And there was quite a bit of media attention to it. I can't remember where it was. Knoxville I believe. Just a distraction from the real issue at hand.
That thing is from 2007 I believe. And there was quite a bit of media attention to it. I can't remember where it was. Knoxville I believe. Just a distraction from the real issue at hand.
did the people get arrested? If so it what the hell does it have to do with this case. So lame.
That thing is from 2007 I believe. And there was quite a bit of media attention to it. I can't remember where it was. Knoxville I believe. Just a distraction from the real issue at hand.
did the people get arrested? If so it what the hell does it have to do with this case. So lame.
I believe one of the dudes was put to death or is on death row. It has nothing to do with the case. Just people who want to distract from the issue at hand.
I don't understand how Zimmerman can claim self-defense...Trayvon was the one who was pursued, Trayvon was unarmed...can you claim self-defense if you start a fight and discover you are getting your ass kicked, so you use lethal force against an unarmed person? Doesn't make any sense. Regardless of what new facts/innuendo come to light a this point are irrelevant to the fact(s) that Trayvon was unarmed, Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, and Trayvon ended up being killed by a gunshot wound to the chest. How on earth do you calim self-defense even if Trayvon was beating him up? Zimmerman chased after him for, a point not being brought up enough, for just WALKING. Nothing else. He was doing nothing BUT WALKING. Basically Trayvon was killed for being more of a man than the sad little racist who shot him. Any "man" who feels they have to carry a gun on them whenever they leave the house in a fucking GATED COMMUNITY is a pathetic fucking coward.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
The_Hook_Up said:
I don't understand how Zimmerman can claim self-defense...Trayvon was the one who was pursued, Trayvon was unarmed...can you claim self-defense if you start a fight and discover you are getting your ass kicked, so you use lethal force against an unarmed person? Doesn't make any sense. Regardless of what new facts/innuendo come to light a this point are irrelevant to the fact(s) that Trayvon was unarmed, Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, and Trayvon ended up being killed by a gunshot wound to the chest. How on earth do you calim self-defense even if Trayvon was beating him up? Zimmerman chased after him for, a point not being brought up enough, for just WALKING. Nothing else. He was doing nothing BUT WALKING. Basically Trayvon was killed for being more of a man than the sad little racist who shot him. Any "man" who feels they have to carry a gun on them whenever they leave the house in a fucking GATED COMMUNITY is a pathetic fucking coward.
People continue to bring up the Christian/Newsom murders because at the time it was said that the media was ignoring the story because the victims were white.
It comes up every time there's a big story that involves race in any way.
I don't understand how Zimmerman can claim self-defense...Trayvon was the one who was pursued, Trayvon was unarmed...can you claim self-defense if you start a fight and discover you are getting your ass kicked, so you use lethal force against an unarmed person? Doesn't make any sense. Regardless of what new facts/innuendo come to light a this point are irrelevant to the fact(s) that Trayvon was unarmed, Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, and Trayvon ended up being killed by a gunshot wound to the chest. How on earth do you calim self-defense even if Trayvon was beating him up? Zimmerman chased after him for, a point not being brought up enough, for just WALKING. Nothing else. He was doing nothing BUT WALKING. Basically Trayvon was killed for being more of a man than the sad little racist who shot him. Any "man" who feels they have to carry a gun on them whenever they leave the house in a fucking GATED COMMUNITY is a pathetic fucking coward.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
The police surveillance cam footage that just surfaced appear to rebut Zimmerman's claim that he was punched and pounded to the ground. He doesn't appear to have any bruises, bleeding or scratches.
I don't understand how Zimmerman can claim self-defense...Trayvon was the one who was pursued, Trayvon was unarmed...can you claim self-defense if you start a fight and discover you are getting your ass kicked, so you use lethal force against an unarmed person? Doesn't make any sense. Regardless of what new facts/innuendo come to light a this point are irrelevant to the fact(s) that Trayvon was unarmed, Zimmerman pursued Trayvon, and Trayvon ended up being killed by a gunshot wound to the chest. How on earth do you calim self-defense even if Trayvon was beating him up? Zimmerman chased after him for, a point not being brought up enough, for just WALKING. Nothing else. He was doing nothing BUT WALKING. Basically Trayvon was killed for being more of a man than the sad little racist who shot him. Any "man" who feels they have to carry a gun on them whenever they leave the house in a fucking GATED COMMUNITY is a pathetic fucking coward.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
The police surveillance cam footage that just surfaced appear to rebut Zimmerman's claim that he was punched and pounded to the ground. He doesn't appear to have any bruises, bleeding or scratches.
Listening to this, I don't know what to think, but it made for an interesting watch.
The father talks about why Trayvon's girlfriend would wait three weeks to speak her side of the story, but then I'd ask why would the father wait more than a month to speak on behalf of his son? If I were the father and I believed my son, I would try to speak out as soon as possible so that those wishing ill will upon him could back off somewhat.
A source with knowledge of the investigation into the shooting of Trayvon Martin tells theGrio that it was then Sanford police chief Bill Lee, along with Capt. Robert O'Connor, the investigations supervisor, who made the decision to release George Zimmerman on the night of February 26th, after consulting with State Attorney Norman Wolfinger -- in person.
??? Footage released today shows zero blood on Zimmerman and no signs of a "life threatening" struggle.
??? Trayvon's girlfriend was never interviewed.
??? Zimmerman's SOLE spokesman gets roasted the fuck up and caught up in his own lies on national television, claiming Z's been crying non-stop and had multiple lacerations, yet dude hasn't seen him since a week prior to the shooting.
Comments
Perhaps. What in this case it doesn't make any sense. The 911 operator told him not to follow and told him to wait for the police. You hear Zimmerman on the tape saying OK. In the end, he goes looking for confrontation which should knock down any idea of even the need to stand your ground. Who's really standing their ground is the kid who probably felt he was being stalked.
Does anyone know if there is any more info of the Trayvon was on the phone with his girlfriend story? Was this proved to be true?
Hey Harvey,
The Milwaukee Police Department had a penchant for that kind of shit too, which is why I hated that racist place. Check this out regarding the Frank Jude beating back in 2004: http://www.timesunion.com/news/article/Wisconsin-beating-victim-I-don-t-trust-police-3419744.php
My wife feared for my safety on my way home from teaching class at night due to this image:
Fortunately, Frank Jude lived on despite his near brush with death.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
Ouch and unfortunately for all, this is apparently still a nation-wide problem.
I wonder what his motivation is? Do you think he's being paid?
he says he is a friend and neighbour of zimmerman doing this out of concern that zimmerman is being unfairly framed as a racist and an agressor by an overzealous media elite that is out for sensationalism and his criminal convtcion...
i have seen some professional obfuscators at work and this guy joe oliver is up there with the best of them. he should be paid for first rate bullshit he is spinning.
Maybe it was in self defense, maybe it wasn't. That might only be known after a full investigation, or a trial or never. But trying to pass judgment now only benefits the race hustlers stirring up the pot and the racist trying to portray the kid as a thug. Fact is all the people doing the most talking, don't know anything.
but were over ruled by the State Attorney ,
sounds like strange s.o.p. to call the s.a. before making an arrest
maybe more ass covering
I can't wait to see the medical records. His story of the altercation is pretty unbelievable
and if it weren't for the "race hustlers" Trayvon would be just another black child killed under mysterious circumstances. People really think that race has nothing to do with this. That, to me, is incredible.
What kills me is people claiming this is complicated. This shit is simple. If Trayvon were white he would be alive. If Zimmerman didn't think he was dirty fucking harry Trayvon would be alive. If the police had acted responsibly Zimmerman would have been charged and it would have been treated like a criminal investigation from the start.
FWIW Zimmerman's father is a retired Supreme Court judge. This is all speculation (cough) why it was handed over to the State Attorney - who has since removed himself from the case - but yeah. There's a lot of unanswered as to why this was handled so carelessly. Why were no pictures taken of his injuries, no toxicology test given, where are Zimmerman's clothes from that night, where is the medical report from his injuries, why was Trayvon kept in the morgue as a John Doe for days when they had ID'd him less than 8 hours after his killing? Shit doesn't add up.
That whole department is suspect. This is from January: http://cf13.tpa.bhn.net/article/news/2011/january/189699/
I can't wait until saba gets arrested for a crime he didn't commit...
Pretty epic ethering of Joe Oliver by Lawrence O'Donnell and Charles Blow. Oliver admits that he's not really a close friend of Zimmerman and
that he believes in Z's innocence is based on a "gut feeling."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/joe-oliver-the-last-word_n_1384419.html
WTF?!
Does anybody know about this case? It doesn't even makes sense to me. A picture with no story. These stories always gets so polarizing and it's a shame.
Fuck outta here.
did the people get arrested? If so it what the hell does it have to do with this case. So lame.
http://www.thegrio.com/news/woman-arrested-for-trespassing-in-hospital-dies-in-jail.php
If you can imagine, the story is WAY WORSE than the headline.
I believe one of the dudes was put to death or is on death row. It has nothing to do with the case. Just people who want to distract from the issue at hand.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
It comes up every time there's a big story that involves race in any way.
The police surveillance cam footage that just surfaced appear to rebut Zimmerman's claim that he was punched and pounded to the ground. He doesn't appear to have any bruises, bleeding or scratches.
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3OpuWEV1mw
I'm sure the conservative spin is that it's hard to see bruising/bleeding on "white-hispanics."
Yeah Fox will bring out that fucking quack Ablow who will give some "you can't see internal trauma" or some other feeble shit...
The father talks about why Trayvon's girlfriend would wait three weeks to speak her side of the story, but then I'd ask why would the father wait more than a month to speak on behalf of his son? If I were the father and I believed my son, I would try to speak out as soon as possible so that those wishing ill will upon him could back off somewhat.
Let me help you.
??? Judge's son made his fourth, life altering mistake that daddy tried to clear up with some phone calls to the chief of a well publicized corrupt police force and the State Attorney. Once the media got wind of this story everyone involved either quits or relinquishes their duty. http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/source-sanford-police-chief-state-attorney-made-zimmerman-no-charge-call-in-person.php#46882946
??? Footage released today shows zero blood on Zimmerman and no signs of a "life threatening" struggle.
??? Trayvon's girlfriend was never interviewed.
??? Zimmerman's SOLE spokesman gets roasted the fuck up and caught up in his own lies on national television, claiming Z's been crying non-stop and had multiple lacerations, yet dude hasn't seen him since a week prior to the shooting.
??? Trayvon's body showed no signs of a fight, cuts or bruises on his hands. http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/28/funeral-director-saw-no-signs-of-fight-on-trayvons-hands/?hpt=ng_mid
??? Also, racism.
Fuck everything about this.