Trayvon Martin

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  • dayday 9,611 Posts
    Dubs

  • Big_StacksBig_Stacks "I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
    Hey All,

    Cases like the Trayvon Martin case is why I used to carry identification on me when I walked my dog through my neighborhood in Milwaukee. Now, it's sad that at 6:30AM, in the quiet of the morning, I had to be vigilant about protecting myself against insinuations of wrongdoing. Because, as we see, merely walking around as a Black man (and a quite big Black man in my case) can be grounds for suspicion, and potentially, a source of my personal danger. These are the sentiments I express when people try to tell me that racism is a thing of the past.

    Peace,

    Big Stacks from Kakalak

  • day said:

    wow, this investigation has been so epically corrupted by the state attorney, no wonder this has gotten as big as it has...

    let me get this straight.....he makes the key decsion not to charge, overuling the investigator on the scene, and then recuses himself from the case for fear that there will be an appearance of conflict of interest (btw what is that conflcit, is he friendly w zimmerman's dad the judge perhaps?) if there was a conflcit or appearance of conflict, why wouldn't he recuse himself immediately rather going out on a limb and undermining the investigators, setting zimmerman free and then bolting?

    apparently the investigator swore an affidavit that night to the effect he did not believe zimmerman's story and was releasing him on the basis of the state's attorney's instructions.

    here's my feeble prediction: there will be grand jury and it will reccomend indictment of zimmerman for manslaughter and the state attorney's head somehow rolls (either he is investigated or resigns).

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    PrimeCutsLtd said:
    This is a case where race shouldn't even matter. More of an issue that a neighborhood "watch" guy tries to become a vigilante with a GUN. Some people I know on facebook have posted this picture.

    WTF?!
    Does anybody know about this case? It doesn't even makes sense to me. A picture with no story. These stories always gets so polarizing and it's a shame.

    Yeah, you wonder if the folks 'sharing' this were also aware of this. It's just disgusting the narrow-mindedness of some of these people.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    So the Shaima Alawadi murder is getting almost no airtime - is the American psyche not prepared for two racist/hate murders in a month in 2012 and/or are Muslim women lower than young black men on the food chain in 2012 and/or are folks waiting/hoping the notes were fake?

  • HarveyCanalHarveyCanal "a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
    No, America is unfortunately not ready to stand up for a Muslim woman. Sad but true.

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    bassie said:
    So the Shaima Alawadi murder is getting almost no airtime - is the American psyche not prepared for two racist/hate murders in a month in 2012 and/or are Muslim women lower than young black men on the food chain in 2012 and/or are folks waiting/hoping the notes were fake?

    Comparing the airtime that that or any story gets with the "American pysche" is unfair. TV news is an entertainment business, full stop. People do not, or should not, watch it to get informed. There are hundreds of stories about Shaima Alawadi.

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    I was not refering to airtime only in terms of news reports.

    No protests, no Presidential quotes and no flooding of social media with photos, etc.

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    bassie said:
    I was not refering to airtime only in terms of news reports.

    No protests, no Presidential quotes and no flooding of social media with photos, etc.

    Fair point. I don't pretend to understand what sparks outrage among people. I can't really remember this large of a reaction over the murder of one single, relatively unknown, citizen in this country.

  • batmonbatmon 27,574 Posts
    white_tea said:
    bassie said:
    I was not refering to airtime only in terms of news reports.

    No protests, no Presidential quotes and no flooding of social media with photos, etc.

    Fair point. I don't pretend to understand what sparks outrage among people. I can't really remember this large of a reaction over the murder of one single, relatively unknown, citizen in this country.

    There have been unjustified killings of Black Folk over the decades that got media attention.

    In 2012 the technology accentuates the drama.

    Emmett Till's murder in 1955 was HUGE.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    batmon said:
    white_tea said:
    bassie said:
    I was not refering to airtime only in terms of news reports.

    No protests, no Presidential quotes and no flooding of social media with photos, etc.

    Fair point. I don't pretend to understand what sparks outrage among people. I can't really remember this large of a reaction over the murder of one single, relatively unknown, citizen in this country.

    There have been unjustified killings of Black Folk over the decades that got media attention.


    Martin's family has pushed this. They were not about to just deal w/ it... that's killing a lot of these "post-racial" folks.

    Also, the incompetence of the police and prosecutor have made it bigger... if they were better are doing the cover up, there wouldn't be nearly as much evidence mounting to contradict Zimmerman's story, or the various people trying to slime the victim or change the subject outright... it just keeps coming back to the naked, racist truth of the events. And a lot of white people who would prefer to believe this shit doesn't happen ALL THE TIME are being forced to confront the reality that it does. Which creates "outrage", which drives a story like this.

    As far as other tragedies, an unarmed kid was just killed by LAPD in an eerily similar situation. If there was national outcry for every time this shit happened we'd never talk about anything else. That's the reality people want to pretend doesn't exist.

    I agree w/ Rob upthread, America is not ready to get amped up over a Muslim woman being killed in a potential hate crime. But I think, minus the Trayvon Martin killing, it might be a bigger story. The fact is the Martin case taps into a lot of deep, dark corners of the American psyche. Shit goes back centuries.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    truth. well put, jp

  • dayday 9,611 Posts
    So that's it? If anyone's been following this, there's a grip to discuss. The taking sides/racist shit going on is depressing to say the least.

  • Jonny_PaycheckJonny_Paycheck 17,825 Posts
    I feel you

    I've been talking about this in a few places (with slightly more vigorous results than here, fwr) but honestly between the trolls, the ignorance, and a lack of any concrete developments, I have to save my strength. I'm listening, and watching. I'm all e-yelled out for the moment though.

    Kenneth Chamberlain
    Remarley Graham
    Kendrec McDade

    Shit is like open season.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,391 Posts
    It's incredible that no arrest has been made. I'm guessing that by delaying the arrest for as long as possible Zimmerman's camp will play the media coverage and then try to claim that he wouldn't get a fair trial when the inevitable arraignment is made. But what's the legal argument for not having arrested him already? Is there one or is this just as ****ed up as it looks?

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    Flomotion said:
    It's incredible that no arrest has been made. But what's the legal argument for not having arrested him already? Is there one or is this just as ****ed up as it looks?

    yup boggles the mind.
    im with johnny...keeping watch on things.

    this is being discussed in many schools, from what i can gather. my neighbors 2nd grader came home with a Trayvon related poster that she made in class about not being a criminal. its a good thing these discussions are going on, but its a sad commentary on our country that 8 year olds need to be fully aware of this prejudiced bullshit.

  • FlomotionFlomotion 2,391 Posts
    Truly mind boggling. I'm watching and waiting.

  • JRootJRoot 861 Posts
    I am incredulous that Zimmerman has not been arrested or charged. He is known to have committed a homicide. The victim is known to have been unarmed.

    The job of police is to arrest this man. The job of prosecutors is to arraign the man on a charge. The job of a judge is to determine the conditions of his confinement or conditional release. Then the job of police and prosecutors together is to investigate this crime. Speak to witnesses. Seize evidence and protect it from spoliation. Understand what occurred. If necessary, amend the charge to conform to the facts as dteermined in the investigation. And then put the defendant on trial (if he does not cop a plea) before an impartial jury of 12. Both sides are entitled to present evidence and it is that jury who decides whether he is guilty or innocent, and whether the Florida "stand your ground" law entitles him to a defense. None of these jobs have been done. None of these jobs have even been started.

    This could easily be charged as a first degree murder case. "These assholes always get away..." possibly mumbling a racial epithet to the 9-1-1 operator, the sound of Zimmerman emerging from his car on the 9-1-1 tape after Martin begins to run away from Zimmerman, who is stalking him. George Zimmerman, tired of seeing "these assholes get away," decided that this particular asshole was not going to get away. He chased him down, armed with a loaded weapon, with every intention of killing him. And that's exactly what he did. Martin may have tried to fight him off, but he was just a kid. Zimmerman knew he had the upper hand at all times and the minute he provoked Martin, he did what he wanted to do from the get go -- killed him. The evidence that I've seen permits these inferences to be drawn and argued. All that said, it could also be charged and argued as a second degree murder or even a manslaughter depending on how much credence is given to Zimmerman's "he was beating the shit out of me" story. But it's still a winnable homicide case. Can't win it until the man is charged.

    Ordinarily, in a high profile homicide in a small community, the police and prosecutors are aggressive in their pursuit of convictions of the highest available level of culpability. (If the racial identities of the victim and the perpetrator were flipped, Florida prosecutors likely would have already arrested the suspect and announced their intention to seek the death penalty.) But ordinarily, high profile homicides are not committed by sons of local judges against heretofore faceless black teenagers. All the factors contribute to the outcome here -- race, social class, and social capital of the killer's family; race, social class and (lack of ) social capital of the victim's family; racism and corruption in the police force; corruption and abuse of power in the State's Attorney's office.

    It's a sickening and pointless tragedy, and it is being compounded every minute that the wheels of justice are not moved against the killer. The sad thing is, this type of tragedy happens on the streets of this country every single day. Rarely do the circumstances come together in just this way, though, and when they do, it captures the attention of the broader public. We remember Emmett Till. We remember Amadou Diallo. We remember Oscar Brown. We remember Sean Bell. We remember Frank Jude. This wrong is too reminiscent of those wrongs to be ignored as an isolated tragedy. And I'm relieved to see that the broader public up to and including the President wants to bring this killer to justice.

    I don't know where the case is going to end up. I don't know what exactly happened out there that day. But for now, I want the police and prosecutors to do their jobs. A boy has been killed. His killer is known. His killer should be arrested. This is not rural Mississippi in 1963. Get the correct process on track and go forward from there.

    No justice. No peace.
    JRoot

  • white_teawhite_tea 3,262 Posts
    Thank you, JRoot!

    There was an interview yesterday with the new prosecutor. It did not include any hint of the outcome we are all hoping for.

    Prosecutor in Florida shooting case has tough reputation
    * Trayvon Martin case prosecutor: won't flinch from consequences
    * Angela Corey has reputation for being tough on crime

    (Adds details in Cristian Fernandez case)

    By Amy Wimmer Schwarb
    JACKSONVILLE, Fla., April 4 (Reuters) - Angela Corey, the prosecutor investigating the shooting death of an unarmed black teenager in Florida, has been known to wear a victims advocate pin to trials, shed tears with victims' families and make faces at defense witnesses.
    The decision about whether to charge the white Hispanic man who shot and killed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, will ultimately rest with Corey. Those watching the case, which has inflamed racial tensions, are looking closely at her background for clues to how she might handle it.
    Corey heads a state attorney's office in north Florida where she has earned a reputation for toughness in handling crimes involving gun violence.
    "Generally, it's arrest the guy with the gun and sort it out later. That's always been the way it works in Angela Corey's circuit," said Teresa Sopp, a veteran criminal defense lawyer who has battled Corey in court on numerous occasions.
    Sometimes Corey's quest for justice can go too far, said Bill White, a former public defender who recalls judges instructing her to refrain from showing her frustration with defense witnesses or from wearing a large cross around her neck that might influence a jury.
    "It's part of her zealousness," said White, who tried cases against Corey for more than 20 years. "Sometimes, you have to question that zealousness. And you have to keep an eye on her because you know you're up against a tough prosecutor. She's very, very smart."
    The Trayvon Martin case - which has attracted attention across the United States and abroad - is putting Corey under close scrutiny.
    Martin's family and supporters have attended rallies around the country to push for the arrest of the shooter, George Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood watch captain who said he acted in self-defense when he shot the teenager in the central Florida town of Sanford on Feb. 26.
    Police have so far not arrested Zimmerman, citing Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law, which allows the use of lethal force outside the home when a reasonable threat is perceived.
    In an interview on Tuesday, Corey would not discuss the specifics of the Trayvon Martin case, but said she does not shy away from making tough decisions.
    "You can't worry about consequence if you're doing the right thing," Corey told Reuters. "If you're going to commit to doing the right thing for the right reasons, consequences have to fall where they may."
    Florida Governor Rick Scott appointed Corey as the special prosecutor in the Martin case on March 22 after State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, whose district includes Sanford, recused himself.

    The relationship between Corey and Scott dates to his campaign days, when Corey became one of the first state attorneys to support his election for governor. She later worked on Scott's transition team.
    Corey, a native of Jacksonville, is the grandchild of Syrian immigrants who ran a grocery store downtown. She attended public schools in Jacksonville and still attends her childhood church, St. John's Episcopal. She studied law at the University of Florida.
    In 1981 she joined the state attorney's office that oversees three north Florida counties, but was fired in 2006 after a falling out with her boss, then-State Attorney Harry Shorstein. Two years later, she ran against Shorstein's handpicked successor to lead the office and won.
    Corey's tough stance has had an impact in her three years in office.
    Despite a decrease in crime and arrests in Jacksonville, and in the overall jail populations around the state, the number of inmates in Jacksonville's Duval County jail is up dramatically due to tougher sentences, said one criminal justice expert who studied the statistics.
    "The single most important factor as to why the jail is so full in Duval County is ... Angela Corey's aggressive style as prosecutor," said Michael Hallett, chairman of criminology and criminal justice at the University of North Florida in Jacksonville.

    BOY FACES TRIAL FOR MURDER
    Until she was picked to investigate the Trayvon Martin shooting, the case that attracted most attention to Corey involved another teenager.
    Cristian Fernandez, now 13, was charged on Corey's watch with first-degree murder last June at age 12 for the death of his 2-year-old brother. H e will be tried as an adult and faces a possible life sentence if convicted. Children's advocates have protested the decision.
    "Compared to her predecessor, she is much more aggressive in terms of filing criminal charges, much less likely to dismiss charges, and more likely to multiple file... She prosecutes every potential charge to the hilt," Hallett said.
    But even her critics insist that no one should misinterpret her position on cases as being racially motivated.
    "She's been a strong advocate for African-American victims throughout her career," said former public defender White. "There's no hint of racism there. The real question with Angela, to me, is: Is her judgment good?"
    Corey said for every case in which she has been criticized for being too tough, she can point to others that show a different side. In a recent case, two black teens were arrested as robbery suspects, Corey said, but she and another prosecutor quickly decided they would not file charges against the young men.
    It was late on a Friday afternoon, and Corey did not want to see the suspects languish in jail all weekend. She tracked down a judge who was still at the courthouse and arranged the paperwork for them to be released to their grandmother, she said.
    "She has a lot of compassion for the victims of crime, but she knows when a case is not going to be able to be prosecuted," said Mitchell Stone, a Jacksonville criminal defense lawyer who has known Corey for 23 years.

  • JRootJRoot 861 Posts
    Trying a 12-year-old as an adult for first degree murder is an aggressive prosecution strategy (which is about all I can say on the subject without running into grandma's proscription about saying something nice...). We'll see how she handles the Martin case.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    JRoot, with you entirely. thanks for spelling that out. i think a large part of the country is pretty frustrated with the lack of action and obvious travesty of due process. race, social class and social capital is the key. makes my blood boil to imagine what the same people would be saying if the roles were reversed.

    this morning i kept thinking about the asshole on the jon stewart video Herm posted on Mexican American history in Arizona. i kept picturing his face arguing in defense of Martinez the murderer and conversely arguing for the death penalty if Trayvon had been the gun toting neighborhood watch guy.

  • George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says

    By Sari Horwitz, Updated: Wednesday, April 11, 1:46 PM

    Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

    It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face.

    Martin, 17 and unarmed, was shot and killed Feb. 26 by Zimmerman, who said he was acting in self-defense. Police in Sanford, Fla., where the shooting took place, did not charge Zimmerman, citing the state???s ???stand your ground??? law.

    Corey told reporters Tuesday night that she would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours. A news release from her office said the event will be held in Sanford or Jacksonville, Fla.

    Benjamin Crump, who is representing the Martin family, said this week that Corey???s office had asked where Trayvon???s parents would be each day this week. They arrived Wednesday in Washington for a civil rights conference organized by the Rev. Al Sharpton, where they spoke to reporters.

    Sabryna Fulton and Tracy Martin, Trayvon???s parents, said they would not comment on the charges because they had not been personally notified. They scheduled a press conference for 5 :15 p.m.

    Earlier reports that Zimmerman???s lawyers said they did not know where he was did not bother Trayvon???s parents, they said.

    ???We do have faith in the justice system. When it is time to arrest him, they will find him,??? Fulton said.

    The announcement of a charge against Zimmerman would come a day after Zimmerman???s attorneys withdrew from the case, citing their inability to contact Zimmerman.

    Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig on Tuesday expressed concern about Zimmerman???s emotional and physical well-being, saying he has taken actions without consulting them. They also said they do not know where Zimmerman is.

    ???You can stop looking in Florida,??? Uhrig told reporters. ???Look much further away than that.???

    Corey said Monday that she would not bring the case before a grand jury, which was expected to convene this week. She said her decision to forgo the grand jury should not be viewed as an indication of whether charges will be filed.

    Corey has indicated in recent weeks that she might not need a grand jury to bring charges against Zimmerman.

    The lawyers said they stand by their assertions that Zimmerman acted in self-defense when he killed the 17-year-old, who was unarmed, but they acknowledged that they formed their impressions without meeting Zimmerman.


    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    wait so a day after it is revealed that no one knows where he is they go public that they are going to press charges? seems to me like Zimmerman may have been informed of goings on and told to get out of town before he was taken into custody.

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    tripledouble said:
    wait so a day after it is revealed that no one knows where he is they go public that they are going to press charges? seems to me like Zimmerman may have been informed of goings on and told to get out of town before he was taken into custody.

    From AP:

    "However, the person with knowledge of the case said law enforcement knows where Zimmerman is. His former attorneys have said he is in hiding and suffering from high levels of stress from the intense public scrutiny he is under."

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    ok. thank heavens the law enforcement officials are keeping track of him. so far in this case they have inspired me with booming confidence. wouldnt be surprised if they smuggled him into cuba or some shit

  • HollafameHollafame 844 Posts
    Horseleech said:
    suffering from high levels of stress from the intense public scrutiny he is under."

    poor guy

  • HorseleechHorseleech 3,830 Posts
    tripledouble said:
    ok. thank heavens the law enforcement officials are keeping track of him. so far in this case they have inspired me with booming confidence. wouldnt be surprised if they smuggled him into cuba or some shit

    Well, if you followed the story, law enforcement wanted to arrest him and charge him with murder on the spot.

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    but instead didnt even test him for being under the influence of anything

  • bassiebassie 11,710 Posts
    Is it safe to say Zimmerman would be safer in custody at this point?

  • tripledoubletripledouble 7,636 Posts
    seems he just turned himself in as being charged with second degree murder
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