Hamas can never be destroyed as long as the completely illegal and utterly brutal occupation continues. If I were a hopeless young Palestinian I'd probably join Hamas and try to destroy Israel. And you would, too.
This isn't collective punishment of an entire population...
hyperbole
But...but....but....why can't they just go up and down the streets asking who is with Hamas and just punish them.....you know, after they get a top notch lawyer and a fair trial??
So instead we should shove all the Palestinians we can into a section of the country, till it becomes the most densely populated area on planet earth. Then we can build a giant wall around it topped with barbed wire and rifle towers. We'll stop medical supplies from entering this area and periodically bomb the shit out of the civilians there.
"But let me say that what Israel is doing in Gaza is not an act of self-defense, as it is claiming. It???s not an attack on Hamas. It is an attack on the whole Palestinian population. What we see is a war crime, a bloodbath, unprecedented since 1967. What we have had so far is 318 people killed, including thirty children, and at least 1,400 people injured, including 150 children and forty women. I was shocked deeply today over the fact that yesterday the Israeli planes destroyed a house in Jabaliya camp and killed five girls, five sisters from one family, and injured their mother seriously and critically. This is a bloodbath that should stop immediately."
"But let me say that what Israel is doing in Gaza is not an act of self-defense, as it is claiming. It???s not an attack on Hamas. It is an attack on the whole Palestinian population. What we see is a war crime, a bloodbath, unprecedented since 1967. What we have had so far is 318 people killed, including thirty children, and at least 1,400 people injured, including 150 children and forty women. I was shocked deeply today over the fact that yesterday the Israeli planes destroyed a house in Jabaliya camp and killed five girls, five sisters from one family, and injured their mother seriously and critically. This is a bloodbath that should stop immediately."
"But let me say that what Israel is doing in Gaza is not an act of self-defense, as it is claiming. It???s not an attack on Hamas. It is an attack on the whole Palestinian population. What we see is a war crime, a bloodbath, unprecedented since 1967. What we have had so far is 318 people killed, including thirty children, and at least 1,400 people injured, including 150 children and forty women. I was shocked deeply today over the fact that yesterday the Israeli planes destroyed a house in Jabaliya camp and killed five girls, five sisters from one family, and injured their mother seriously and critically. This is a bloodbath that should stop immediately."
The three-day death toll rose to 364 on Monday, with some 1,400 reported wounded, according to Palestinian medical officials. The U.N. said at least 62 of the dead were civilians, and medics said eight children under the age of 17 were killed in two separate strikes overnight.
In Israel, 17 people have been killed in attacks from Gaza since the beginning of the year, including nine civilians ??? six of them killed by rockets ??? and eight soldiers, according to Israel's Foreign Ministry
This isn't collective punishment of an entire population...
hyperbole
But...but....but....why can't they just go up and down the streets asking who is with Hamas and just punish them.....you know, after they get a top notch lawyer and a fair trial??
So instead we should shove all the Palestinians we can into a section of the country, till it becomes the most densely populated area on planet earth. Then we can build a giant wall around it topped with barbed wire and rifle towers. We'll stop medical supplies from entering this area and periodically bomb the shit out of the civilians there.
This is insane.
You have to marvel at the astonishing technology that permits the IDF to bomb the shit out of Gaza, kill a tonne of soldiers, militants, Hamas muckymucks, and what have you, while only killing several dozen or so civilians (depending on what source you choose to believe). They're blowing up entire buildings in what you claim is the world's most densely populated area and only killing handfuls of the folks people generally feel shouldn't be killed during war. That's nuts.
i think israel is coming down WAY too harsh. too much collateral damage to be had this time round.
It seems to me like the concept of proportionality is basically academic.
You assess a military action by what it accomplished relative to what it was intended to accomplish. If Israel's intention is to flex some muscle to remind the Syrians and Iranians not to mess with it, then systematically destroying the Hamas infrastructure may well be the thing to do.
I don't know how you argue that proportionality has a place in realpolitik. One of you proportionalists should give it a go.
i think israel is coming down WAY too harsh. too much collateral damage to be had this time round.
It seems to me like the concept of proportionality is basically academic.
You assess a military action by what it accomplished relative to what it was intended to accomplish. If Israel's intention is to flex some muscle to remind the Syrians and Iranians not to mess with it, then systematically destroying the Hamas infrastructure may well be the thing to do.
I don't know how you argue that proportionality has a place in realpolitik. One of you proportionalists should give it a go.
check my prior post:
The three-day death toll rose to 364 on Monday, with some 1,400 reported wounded, according to Palestinian medical officials. The U.N. said at least 62 of the dead were civilians, and medics said eight children under the age of 17 were killed in two separate strikes overnight.
In Israel, 17 people have been killed in attacks from Gaza since the beginning of the year, including nine civilians ??? six of them killed by rockets ??? and eight soldiers, according to Israel's Foreign Ministry
seeing as the usa funds the idf and is one of israels biggest allies i must be coming across as unpatriotic but i cannot support the wanton use of firepower against civilians ever...period... in any circumstance. call me ignorant i guess.
with a botched and brutal invasion of the Gaza Strip?
Pretty much - through their raid are they not guaranteeing the indoctrination of the next generation of Hamas recruits? I'm going to guess that they aren't swaying Palestinians to the other side with this display.
Pretty much - through their raid are they not guaranteeing the indoctrination of the next generation of Hamas recruits? I'm going to guess that they aren't swaying Palestinians to the other side with this display.
I'm starting to wonder if the Israeli state really wants to destroy Hamas. Without Hamas they wouldn't have any justification for their giant war machine. Or the constant brutal oppression of Palestinians.
seeing as the usa funds the idf and is one of israels biggest allies i must be coming across as unpatriotic but i cannot support the wanton use of firepower against civilians ever...period... in any circumstance. call me ignorant i guess.
I'd hardly call the bombing wanton. Wanton is firebombing a city specifically to kill civilians. Targeting military/government installations and killing civilians collaterally is not. That's what happens in war. Ergo, war's the pits.
From my perspective, the significant question is whether those civilian deaths are justified. Or, more generally, what justifies civilian deaths. Sure, the the knee-jerk response it to yell that nothing justifies a civilian death, but that's not really a practical position to adopt. Tough questions.
Pretty much - through their raid are they not guaranteeing the indoctrination of the next generation of Hamas recruits? I'm going to guess that they aren't swaying Palestinians to the other side with this display.
I'm starting to wonder if the Israeli state really wants to destroy Hamas. Without Hamas they wouldn't have any justification for their giant war machine. Or the constant brutal oppression of Palestinians.
Pretty much - through their raid are they not guaranteeing the indoctrination of the next generation of Hamas recruits? I'm going to guess that they aren't swaying Palestinians to the other side with this display.
I'm starting to wonder if the Israeli state really wants to destroy Hamas. Without Hamas they wouldn't have any justification for their giant war machine. Or the constant brutal oppression of Palestinians.
Dude, Hamas = Iran. Hamas and its ilk are proxies. A narrow view of the conflict that sees only a sort of perversely symbiotic relationship between Hamas and Israel misses the point entirely. There's a reason Egypt et al are tacitly supporting Israel; it's all about regional power dynamics. People on the ground are just cannon fodder.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Plaese tell me someone isn't on here trying to rationalize the murder of innocent children.
Isn't that the line of business Hamas is in - murdering innocents and rationalizing it?
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Pretty much - through their raid are they not guaranteeing the indoctrination of the next generation of Hamas recruits? I'm going to guess that they aren't swaying Palestinians to the other side with this display.
I'm starting to wonder if the Israeli state really wants to destroy Hamas. Without Hamas they wouldn't have any justification for their giant war machine. Or the constant brutal oppression of Palestinians.
Utterly bizarro logic.
Not really...and closer to the truth that many of y'all in here will ever allow yourselves to get.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Isn't that the line of business Hamas is in - murdering innocents and rationalizing it?
Pretty much - through their raid are they not guaranteeing the indoctrination of the next generation of Hamas recruits? I'm going to guess that they aren't swaying Palestinians to the other side with this display.
I'm starting to wonder if the Israeli state really wants to destroy Hamas. Without Hamas they wouldn't have any justification for their giant war machine. Or the constant brutal oppression of Palestinians.
Utterly bizarro logic.
Not really...and closer to the truth that many of y'all in here will ever allow yourselves to get.
It's true. I neglected to put on my tin foil cap long ago. Now I'm a lost cause. My brain has been fried by chemtrails and I definitely can't grasp that special knowledge that you and the other select hold dear. Please don't pitty me; it's my own fault.
Comments
huh??
So instead we should shove all the Palestinians we can into a section of the country, till it becomes the most densely populated area on planet earth. Then we can build a giant wall around it topped with barbed wire and rifle towers. We'll stop medical supplies from entering this area and periodically bomb the shit out of the civilians there.
This is insane.
30 Palestinian children were killed this weekend.
source please
DR. MUSTAFA BARGHOUTI:
"But let me say that what Israel is doing in Gaza is not an act of self-defense, as it is claiming. It???s not an attack on Hamas. It is an attack on the whole Palestinian population. What we see is a war crime, a bloodbath, unprecedented since 1967. What we have had so far is 318 people killed, including thirty children, and at least 1,400 people injured, including 150 children and forty women. I was shocked deeply today over the fact that yesterday the Israeli planes destroyed a house in Jabaliya camp and killed five girls, five sisters from one family, and injured their mother seriously and critically. This is a bloodbath that should stop immediately."
Israeli Attacks Kill Over 310 in Gaza in One of Israel???s Bloodiest Attacks on Palestinians Since 1948
Are your sources on this reliable?
Then when that doesn't work, claim that Hamas "soldiers" use live children as body armour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Barghouti
You have to marvel at the astonishing technology that permits the IDF to bomb the shit out of Gaza, kill a tonne of soldiers, militants, Hamas muckymucks, and what have you, while only killing several dozen or so civilians (depending on what source you choose to believe). They're blowing up entire buildings in what you claim is the world's most densely populated area and only killing handfuls of the folks people generally feel shouldn't be killed during war. That's nuts.
It seems to me like the concept of proportionality is basically academic.
You assess a military action by what it accomplished relative to what it was intended to accomplish. If Israel's intention is to flex some muscle to remind the Syrians and Iranians not to mess with it, then systematically destroying the Hamas infrastructure may well be the thing to do.
I don't know how you argue that proportionality has a place in realpolitik. One of you proportionalists should give it a go.
This ain???t no party, this ain???t no disco,
This ain???t no fooling around
check my prior post:
seeing as the usa funds the idf and is one of israels biggest allies i must be coming across as unpatriotic but i cannot support the wanton use of firepower against civilians ever...period... in any circumstance.
call me ignorant i guess.
Pretty much - through their raid are they not guaranteeing the indoctrination of the next generation of Hamas recruits? I'm going to guess that they aren't swaying Palestinians to the other side with this display.
I'm starting to wonder if the Israeli state really wants to destroy Hamas. Without Hamas they wouldn't have any justification for their giant war machine. Or the constant brutal oppression of Palestinians.
I'd hardly call the bombing wanton. Wanton is firebombing a city specifically to kill civilians. Targeting military/government installations and killing civilians collaterally is not. That's what happens in war. Ergo, war's the pits.
From my perspective, the significant question is whether those civilian deaths are justified. Or, more generally, what justifies civilian deaths. Sure, the the knee-jerk response it to yell that nothing justifies a civilian death, but that's not really a practical position to adopt. Tough questions.
Utterly bizarro logic.
Dude, Hamas = Iran. Hamas and its ilk are proxies. A narrow view of the conflict that sees only a sort of perversely symbiotic relationship between Hamas and Israel misses the point entirely. There's a reason Egypt et al are tacitly supporting Israel; it's all about regional power dynamics. People on the ground are just cannon fodder.
Not really...and closer to the truth that many of y'all in here will ever allow yourselves to get.
And?
2 wrongs make a right?
It's true. I neglected to put on my tin foil cap long ago. Now I'm a lost cause. My brain has been fried by chemtrails and I definitely can't grasp that special knowledge that you and the other select hold dear. Please don't pitty me; it's my own fault.