i knew him in DU, then slept on '2pacalypse now'. first album i bought was 'strictly...'
i mean, how can you hate on this? this is the definition of an anthem.
(not to mention: "I'm Shock G: the one who put the satin on your panties")
badder_than_evil said:
How many different spellings do you have for Tupac in your itunes?
NONE. CUZ I HATE TUPAC.
Can't stand this overrated idiot's music. In the GOAT category, he's completely outclassed, outshined and overshadowed by Biggie. Surely, the west coast has produced more talented mc's than this clown.
tupac is close to, if not, the best mc that the west coast has ever produced. and he had a lot of incredible production underneath him.
i mean, have you ever even *LISTENED* to the Thug Life Volume 1 demo tape?
people who mention tupac and biggie in rap convo ruin rap convo FOH with your banal obviousness. prolly not even alive when those records dropped. REMOVE YAH
yeah but some of pacs big songs were created during the rivalry. When there is more then one song dedicated to another artist i.e. "hit em up" or "god bless the dead"
A while back, a lot of us believed that "God Bless the Dead" was dedicated to Biggie Smalls (aka The Notorious BIG), and some fools even used it to support their conspiracy theories and claims that 2pac is still alive, but that misconception has been cleared up now. Before it was finally cleared up who the track was really dedicated to, another misconception spread when some people believed that it was dedicated to some white rapper from the west coast who also used the name Biggy Smallz (spelled differently):
The person it was actually dedicated to was a guy from Stretch's (from Live Squad) crew who also used the name Biggie Smalls:
yeah but some of pacs big songs were created during the rivalry. When there is more then one song dedicated to another artist i.e. "hit em up" or "god bless the dead"
A while back, a lot of us believed that "God Bless the Dead" was dedicated to Biggie Smalls (aka The Notorious BIG), and some fools even used it to support their conspiracy theories and claims that 2pac is still alive, but that misconception has been cleared up now. Before it was finally cleared up who the track was really dedicated to, another misconception spread when some people believed that it was dedicated to some white rapper from the west coast who also used the name Biggy Smallz (spelled differently):
The person it was actually dedicated to was a guy from Stretch's (from Live Squad) crew who also used the name Biggie Smalls:
Interestingly there seems to be absolutely no consensus as to which Biggie 2pac talking about.
yeah but some of pacs big songs were created during the rivalry. When there is more then one song dedicated to another artist i.e. "hit em up" or "god bless the dead"
A while back, a lot of us believed that "God Bless the Dead" was dedicated to Biggie Smalls (aka The Notorious BIG), and some fools even used it to support their conspiracy theories and claims that 2pac is still alive, but that misconception has been cleared up now. Before it was finally cleared up who the track was really dedicated to, another misconception spread when some people believed that it was dedicated to some white rapper from the west coast who also used the name Biggy Smallz (spelled differently):
The person it was actually dedicated to was a guy from Stretch's (from Live Squad) crew who also used the name Biggie Smalls:
Interestingly there seems to be absolutely no consensus as to which Biggie 2pac talking about.
If you read the end of the article, it seems to conclude that “God Bless the Dead” was dedicated to Big Dric (the guy from Queensbridge who grew up with Stretch) and not Biggy Smallz (the white rapper who was associated with 2pac’s producer Johnny J):
Shock G of Digital Underground, who was a close friend of Tupac’s, and the two surviving members of Live Squad have all stated that this was not some sort of prediction of B.I.G.’s murder, but rather a shoutout to Drik.
The reason why so many people were using the name Biggie Smalls is obviously because they were inspired by the character from the movie “Let’s Do It Again”
The article does illustrate why there has been so much confusion about this, and anyone who hasn’t investigated the matter is likely to assume that the song was dedicated to Biggie aka the Notorious BIG. I also understand why some people started to assume that the song was dedicated to the white rapper since he was associated with Johnny J and seemed to have died in 94. But the song was dedicated to Big Dric from Queensbridge. This is what everyone who was around 2pac when he recorded the song has stated. And when you take into account that the song was by 2pac AND Stretch, then it seems even more reasonable to believe that it was dedicated to Dric since he was a friend of Stretch. Another strong indication is also found in the beginning of Stretch's verse where he says, "Yo Big, this is to you my nigga/Springfield Hollis Crew, Thug Life, YG'z/Sendin they respect". When he says that Springfield/Hollis are sending their respect, it basically settles it because that's where Stretch and Big Dric were from.
Check out this interview which clears up the confusion:
pac was a decent rapper and has a mess of tracks that are dope as hell, however if he didn't have a dope beat he suffered and really couldn't stand on his own as a rapper. Besides Dre and Snoop he definately benefitted the most from Dre's production which really solidified him as one of the GOATs to the masses.
Since Dre only produced two tracks for 2pac, or three if you include the remix of California Love, I'm not sure 2pac benefited too much from Dre. Around the time when 2pac signed to Death Row, that's when the gang stuff got more serious and played a bigger role at the label, and Dre would stay at home because he didn't like it. So that's the reason why Dre didn't have more than two beats on All Eyez On Me. 2pac, on the other hand, seemed to start embracing the gang stuff pretty hard when he arrived at Death Row so that may also have created a gap betweem them. At least there was tension between them in the end when 2pac was dissing dre (probably on behalf of Suge).
He's another one I just never seemed to get, in all honesty it could have been the kids that liked him down here that put me off him before I even got to really know his music.
we should dig up the pac/big thread from last year and just quote that thread.
We should take all of the people who can't stand to have a conversation about Pac without bringing up BIG, or for that matter can't stand to have a conversation about BIG without bringing up Pac, and drag them in the river.
please. you cant have a real convo about pac or big without bringing them both up. They defined each over and in turn made them these heros that you worship. Do you think Pac would still be so revered if lived and turned out like an LL Cool J or Ice Cube? His death and Bigs deaths were linked in death and in turn linked in music. just no way to take this out of the equation, and by doing so your disrespecting the magnitude of there influence on each over and hip hop as a whole.
Couldn't disagree more, but I'll leave my response as both Pac and Biggie were "worshipped" well before they each died...and focusing on each of their music catalogs without getting bogged down with media-contrived parameters of West Coast vs. East Coast or whatever is definitely the most responsible way to analyze their true and lasting impacts.
Well... yes and no, really. In my opinion, these things I hold to be true:
- The legacy of both rappers, as ARTISTS, are important enough and stand independently on their own.
- The conflict between them, real OR media-contrived, is an important part of their independent stories.
The beef was real and basically what got them both killed. The reason why some still doubt this is because we have been misinformed and misled by people who were incompetent on this matter.
The better question is if 2pac (and Biggie) was still around, what would have happened since we last saw him? Hell, what about Eazy E?
1.) Fallen off like .. a lot of people
2.) Flipping from gangsta to corny movies like Ice Cube and Are We There Yet
3.) Going from Gangsta to mogul like Dr. Dre and... Beats by Dre?
4.) Floating around on some tier of reality television - Dancing with the Stars, American Idol, the Two Coreys?
5.) Staying gangsta and living the Suge Knight lifestyle?
The one thing about his/their death is they are frozen in time at their peak. Biggie's career was what, 3 or 4 years long? Tupacs was maybe 6? They would be in their 40s now. They wouldn't still be Ready to Die, 2Pacalypse Now-ing it. They never had an opportunity to fall off or go cheesy mainstream or cling on to reality tv for dear life. What do you think they would be doing now?
Think about all of the greats from that that kind of did the slow slide out - ATCQ, De La... look at Rakim - one of the greatest MCs of the era more or less relegated to has been status. Or they could have gone out like Guru or Heavy D on some medical issues, I could really see that with Biggie. Could be bankrupt like Hammer or in prison like Shyne. Who knows?
Shit i wrote a long ass reply and it deleted by accident. Basically most of them would of had no career (eazy) Get stuck in the jiggy era or force to split with babdboy (biggie) or ride it out for a few years and become "old school" rappers (2pac and everybody else from the 90's). Timbaland and Neptune sound took over and im sure most of us cringe thinking about most of these cats spitting on tracks with B2K and Fabulous. Leave the dead be and support living cats actually making music you want to listen to.
BTW probably the most sincere and non bullshit, propoganda interview ive ever seen about Pac.
I think a lot of people make the mistake of accepting Mopreme as one of the best sources of information on 2pac because he was 2pac’s stepbrother and was part of Thug Life. Mopreme has probably also contributed with a lot of valuable, accurate information on 2pac, but it’s important to be aware that he is very biased. He is obviously bitter and feels that he was not treated well when 2pac signed to Death Row. When 2pac signed to Death Row, he placed his loyalty with Suge and all the bloods at Death Row, and he gave less priority to his old people, (like Mopreme, who still expected 2pac to be there for him). There are certain things that Mopreme tones down and won’t speak about when it comes to 2pac and Death Row.
Let me give you an example. 2pac’s mother, his family and close friends all know who killed him. Mopreme also knows who killed 2pac, but he still lets out a bunch of shit like this, trying to insinuate that it was a conspiracy and that Suge had him killed. To me, this seems like Mopreme is trying to vent his bitterness towards Suge.
Before you listen to Mopreme, you need to know about this bias. But he probablt can't be blamed for not having positive feelings about Suge because he doesn’t seem to have been treated well when 2pac was on Death Row – not even by 2pac, who supposedly helped beat up Mopreme. Check out this interview with Joe Cool, who was a guy from the street that Death Row hired to draw album covers, for instance Doggy Style. If you want to know how 2pac was being loyal with Suge’s bloods, you have to check out interviews with people like Joe Cool, who doesn’t have a need to hide the fact that 2pac was getting involved with blood gang members from Compton. But 2pac's affiliation with Mob Piru (Suge's Gang) and the bloods is also very obvious if you notice all the usually subtle gang references that he included in his music.
Shit i wrote a long ass reply and it deleted by accident. Basically most of them would of had no career (eazy) Get stuck in the jiggy era or force to split with babdboy (biggie) or ride it out for a few years and become "old school" rappers (2pac and everybody else from the 90's). Timbaland and Neptune sound took over and im sure most of us cringe thinking about most of these cats spitting on tracks with B2K and Fabulous. Leave the dead be and support living cats actually making music you want to listen to.
But would that jiggy era even have existed if these people had been alive? 2pac and Biggie were major players in the game, and I'm not sure that certain people, like Jay Z or Puffy, would have achieved that much success and influenced the game the way they did if 2pac and Biggie had not died. Their deaths created a space for Puffy to enter the game and Jay Z to blow up.
Puffy and Jay Z are very money hungry, and it almost seems that that's the only goal for them. Although 2pac and Biggie also openly stated that they wanted to become rich, I still think they had a bit more integrity than Puffy and Jay Z do, especially 2pac. I don't think he could have accepted wealth as his only achievement. Through out his career (from 2pacalypse Now to his death), 2pac always made it clear that he strived for progress for the poor black communities. I don't think he would suddenly put this desire for social change behind him since it ran deep in him and was taught to him from his family members, who were affiliated with the black panthers. When 2pac started embracing all the gangster stuff when he arrived at Death Row, it was some unfortunate circumstaces that forced him to do so, and people need to realize that it was not who he really was. He wasn't foreign to that environment, and he had affiliated himself with gang members for a long time, but that was not how he saw himself.
Shit i wrote a long ass reply and it deleted by accident. Basically most of them would of had no career (eazy) Get stuck in the jiggy era or force to split with babdboy (biggie) or ride it out for a few years and become "old school" rappers (2pac and everybody else from the 90's). Timbaland and Neptune sound took over and im sure most of us cringe thinking about most of these cats spitting on tracks with B2K and Fabulous. Leave the dead be and support living cats actually making music you want to listen to.
But would that jiggy era even have existed if these people had been alive? 2pac and Biggie were major players in the game, and I'm not sure that certain people, like Jay Z or Puffy, would have achieved that much success and influenced the game the way they did if 2pac and Biggie had not died. Their deaths created a space for Puffy to enter the game and Jay Z to blow up.
Puffy and Jay Z are very money hungry, and it almost seems that that's the only goal for them. Although 2pac and Biggie also openly stated that they wanted to become rich, I still think they had a bit more integrity than Puffy and Jay Z do, especially 2pac. I don't think he could have accepted wealth as his only achievement. Through out his career (from 2pacalypse Now to his death), 2pac always made it clear that he strived for progress for the poor black communities. I don't think he would suddenly put this desire for social chance behind him since it ran deep in him and was taught to him from his family members, who were affiliated with the black panthers. When 2pac started embracing all the gangster stuff when he arrived at Death Row, it was some unfortunate circumstaces that forced him to do so, and people need to realize that it was not who he really was. He wasn't foreign to that environment, and he had affiliated himself with gang members for a long time, but that was not how he saw himself.
Shit i wrote a long ass reply and it deleted by accident. Basically most of them would of had no career (eazy) Get stuck in the jiggy era or force to split with babdboy (biggie) or ride it out for a few years and become "old school" rappers (2pac and everybody else from the 90's). Timbaland and Neptune sound took over and im sure most of us cringe thinking about most of these cats spitting on tracks with B2K and Fabulous. Leave the dead be and support living cats actually making music you want to listen to.
But would that jiggy era even have existed if these people had been alive? 2pac and Biggie were major players in the game, and I'm not sure that certain people, like Jay Z or Puffy, would have achieved that much success and influenced the game the way they did if 2pac and Biggie had not died. Their deaths created a space for Puffy to enter the game and Jay Z to blow up.
Puffy and Jay Z are very money hungry, and it almost seems that that's the only goal for them. Although 2pac and Biggie also openly stated that they wanted to become rich, I still think they had a bit more integrity than Puffy and Jay Z do, especially 2pac. I don't think he could have accepted wealth as his only achievement. Through out his career (from 2pacalypse Now to his death), 2pac always made it clear that he strived for progress for the poor black communities. I don't think he would suddenly put this desire for social chance behind him since it ran deep in him and was taught to him from his family members, who were affiliated with the black panthers. When 2pac started embracing all the gangster stuff when he arrived at Death Row, it was some unfortunate circumstaces that forced him to do so, and people need to realize that it was not who he really was. He wasn't foreign to that environment, and he had affiliated himself with gang members for a long time, but that was not how he saw himself.
gamleole are you a tupac fan?
Would that be a good or a bad thing?
I have an opinion on 2pac and a bit of knowledge on the topic because I was curious about the murders of 2pac and Biggie a while back and therefore, read and watched a few things. I don’t idolize 2pac or view him as the GOAT, but I do appreciate him for what he was.
Since he is such a big icon, it just strikes me that the masses don’t have a better understanding of him, and it’s also a bit amazing that there is still so much confusion about who killed 2pac and Biggie. But I put the blame on the media for this more than on the public.
Using the Bernard Wright sample and featuring Richie Rich, this track seems to be some kind of rework or updated version of 415's "Snitches & Bitches".
leaving aside speculation into dudes' character, simply on style alone Jay wouldn't be who he is today without 2Pac. Listen to "Feelin' It" (which was a big single off Reasonable Doubt) and it's all Pac cadences. Jay's laid back player/hustler style is a combo of Biggie & Pac, before that he had a much more frenetic style that was inspired by Kane (and the fast-rapping shit he did with Jaz).
He's ridden Pac's style throughout his career including cover versions of actual Pac songs ("Bonnie & Clyde"). There's other examples but I always think of "Feelin' It" because it could easily be a Pac song.
Pac's cadences and techniques can be heard all over current rap and he's definitely the most widely embraced by the masses-yet hated on by most record dudes and backpackers- that I can think of (Kendrick Lamar is definitely following this pattern it seems)
Since he is such a big icon, it just strikes me that the masses don’t have a better understanding of him,
Could you elaborate on that? I agree Pac is held in high regard by a lot of people. Took a political science class as an elective last semester and the prof claimed over and over that if Pac were alive he'd be a congressman or senator by now. I wanted to disagree until I remembered The Terminator was elected out west, and W got reelected a bunch of times.
Speaking on Pac's music, I like a handful of his songs, but not for any message involved. I had the "If My Homies Call" cassingle in the 8th grade and remembered Pac, like a lot here, as a dancer for Digital Underground.
Comments
ah white people....
o_O
have any of you come around to 2pac lately?
i knew him in DU, then slept on '2pacalypse now'. first album i bought was 'strictly...'
i mean, how can you hate on this? this is the definition of an anthem.
(not to mention: "I'm Shock G: the one who put the satin on your panties")
tupac is close to, if not, the best mc that the west coast has ever produced. and he had a lot of incredible production underneath him.
i mean, have you ever even *LISTENED* to the Thug Life Volume 1 demo tape?
best line of this thread was:
also:
ON SOME 40WATERREDMAN ISH:
40 is fucking funny.
https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/the-juice/6516602/tupac-shakur-estate-reset-new-music-powerade-commercial
^ even if we just get this without the radio drop!
but i'm also hoping there's some more thug life demos out there!
A while back, a lot of us believed that "God Bless the Dead" was dedicated to Biggie Smalls (aka The Notorious BIG), and some fools even used it to support their conspiracy theories and claims that 2pac is still alive, but that misconception has been cleared up now. Before it was finally cleared up who the track was really dedicated to, another misconception spread when some people believed that it was dedicated to some white rapper from the west coast who also used the name Biggy Smallz (spelled differently):
The person it was actually dedicated to was a guy from Stretch's (from Live Squad) crew who also used the name Biggie Smalls:
Interestingly there seems to be absolutely no consensus as to which Biggie 2pac talking about.
This article http://www.iknowtheledge.com/hip-hop-memories/biggie-smalls-or-biggy-smallz-article seems to lean towards the white guy but comments on the youtube video and a couple of posts seem split down the middle as to whether it's Stretch Biggie or White Biggie.
If you read the end of the article, it seems to conclude that “God Bless the Dead” was dedicated to Big Dric (the guy from Queensbridge who grew up with Stretch) and not Biggy Smallz (the white rapper who was associated with 2pac’s producer Johnny J):
The reason why so many people were using the name Biggie Smalls is obviously because they were inspired by the character from the movie “Let’s Do It Again”
The article does illustrate why there has been so much confusion about this, and anyone who hasn’t investigated the matter is likely to assume that the song was dedicated to Biggie aka the Notorious BIG. I also understand why some people started to assume that the song was dedicated to the white rapper since he was associated with Johnny J and seemed to have died in 94. But the song was dedicated to Big Dric from Queensbridge. This is what everyone who was around 2pac when he recorded the song has stated. And when you take into account that the song was by 2pac AND Stretch, then it seems even more reasonable to believe that it was dedicated to Dric since he was a friend of Stretch. Another strong indication is also found in the beginning of Stretch's verse where he says, "Yo Big, this is to you my nigga/Springfield Hollis Crew, Thug Life, YG'z/Sendin they respect". When he says that Springfield/Hollis are sending their respect, it basically settles it because that's where Stretch and Big Dric were from.
Check out this interview which clears up the confusion:
Since Dre only produced two tracks for 2pac, or three if you include the remix of California Love, I'm not sure 2pac benefited too much from Dre. Around the time when 2pac signed to Death Row, that's when the gang stuff got more serious and played a bigger role at the label, and Dre would stay at home because he didn't like it. So that's the reason why Dre didn't have more than two beats on All Eyez On Me. 2pac, on the other hand, seemed to start embracing the gang stuff pretty hard when he arrived at Death Row so that may also have created a gap betweem them. At least there was tension between them in the end when 2pac was dissing dre (probably on behalf of Suge).
The beef was real and basically what got them both killed. The reason why some still doubt this is because we have been misinformed and misled by people who were incompetent on this matter.
1.) Fallen off like .. a lot of people
2.) Flipping from gangsta to corny movies like Ice Cube and Are We There Yet
3.) Going from Gangsta to mogul like Dr. Dre and... Beats by Dre?
4.) Floating around on some tier of reality television - Dancing with the Stars, American Idol, the Two Coreys?
5.) Staying gangsta and living the Suge Knight lifestyle?
The one thing about his/their death is they are frozen in time at their peak. Biggie's career was what, 3 or 4 years long? Tupacs was maybe 6? They would be in their 40s now. They wouldn't still be Ready to Die, 2Pacalypse Now-ing it. They never had an opportunity to fall off or go cheesy mainstream or cling on to reality tv for dear life. What do you think they would be doing now?
Think about all of the greats from that that kind of did the slow slide out - ATCQ, De La... look at Rakim - one of the greatest MCs of the era more or less relegated to has been status. Or they could have gone out like Guru or Heavy D on some medical issues, I could really see that with Biggie. Could be bankrupt like Hammer or in prison like Shyne. Who knows?
BTW probably the most sincere and non bullshit, propoganda interview ive ever seen about Pac.
Let me give you an example. 2pac’s mother, his family and close friends all know who killed him. Mopreme also knows who killed 2pac, but he still lets out a bunch of shit like this, trying to insinuate that it was a conspiracy and that Suge had him killed. To me, this seems like Mopreme is trying to vent his bitterness towards Suge.
Before you listen to Mopreme, you need to know about this bias. But he probablt can't be blamed for not having positive feelings about Suge because he doesn’t seem to have been treated well when 2pac was on Death Row – not even by 2pac, who supposedly helped beat up Mopreme. Check out this interview with Joe Cool, who was a guy from the street that Death Row hired to draw album covers, for instance Doggy Style. If you want to know how 2pac was being loyal with Suge’s bloods, you have to check out interviews with people like Joe Cool, who doesn’t have a need to hide the fact that 2pac was getting involved with blood gang members from Compton. But 2pac's affiliation with Mob Piru (Suge's Gang) and the bloods is also very obvious if you notice all the usually subtle gang references that he included in his music.
But would that jiggy era even have existed if these people had been alive? 2pac and Biggie were major players in the game, and I'm not sure that certain people, like Jay Z or Puffy, would have achieved that much success and influenced the game the way they did if 2pac and Biggie had not died. Their deaths created a space for Puffy to enter the game and Jay Z to blow up.
Puffy and Jay Z are very money hungry, and it almost seems that that's the only goal for them. Although 2pac and Biggie also openly stated that they wanted to become rich, I still think they had a bit more integrity than Puffy and Jay Z do, especially 2pac. I don't think he could have accepted wealth as his only achievement. Through out his career (from 2pacalypse Now to his death), 2pac always made it clear that he strived for progress for the poor black communities. I don't think he would suddenly put this desire for social change behind him since it ran deep in him and was taught to him from his family members, who were affiliated with the black panthers. When 2pac started embracing all the gangster stuff when he arrived at Death Row, it was some unfortunate circumstaces that forced him to do so, and people need to realize that it was not who he really was. He wasn't foreign to that environment, and he had affiliated himself with gang members for a long time, but that was not how he saw himself.
gamleole are you a tupac fan?
He was a fool his whole life..
I always felt that 2Pac was like one of those Republican politicos who are publicly really, really, really staunchly homophobic, but secretly gay.
That is all.
wasnt much of a secret was it?
pause
Would that be a good or a bad thing?
I have an opinion on 2pac and a bit of knowledge on the topic because I was curious about the murders of 2pac and Biggie a while back and therefore, read and watched a few things. I don’t idolize 2pac or view him as the GOAT, but I do appreciate him for what he was.
Since he is such a big icon, it just strikes me that the masses don’t have a better understanding of him, and it’s also a bit amazing that there is still so much confusion about who killed 2pac and Biggie. But I put the blame on the media for this more than on the public.
Using the Bernard Wright sample and featuring Richie Rich, this track seems to be some kind of rework or updated version of 415's "Snitches & Bitches".
He's ridden Pac's style throughout his career including cover versions of actual Pac songs ("Bonnie & Clyde"). There's other examples but I always think of "Feelin' It" because it could easily be a Pac song.
Pac's cadences and techniques can be heard all over current rap and he's definitely the most widely embraced by the masses-yet hated on by most record dudes and backpackers- that I can think of (Kendrick Lamar is definitely following this pattern it seems)
Could you elaborate on that? I agree Pac is held in high regard by a lot of people. Took a political science class as an elective last semester and the prof claimed over and over that if Pac were alive he'd be a congressman or senator by now. I wanted to disagree until I remembered The Terminator was elected out west, and W got reelected a bunch of times.
Speaking on Pac's music, I like a handful of his songs, but not for any message involved. I had the "If My Homies Call" cassingle in the 8th grade and remembered Pac, like a lot here, as a dancer for Digital Underground.