I've finally listened to his new LP and I gotta say I think it's pretty damn hot. I thought I was gonna say that Nostalgia was easily better this this, but I'm not so sure now.
Cali emcee Murs presents the Hobostewd-directed music video for "Animal Style", the Embassy-produced track from his recent BluRoc release Love & Rockets Volume 1: The Transformation. "Animal Style is a song I did for many reasons," Murs explains. "The first was to be an advocate for people close to me who are out, and those who have yet to come out. It's also a love song, which is nothing new for me. But with this one I wanted to challenge the listener to ask themselves: Is the love shared by two people of the same gender, really that different than the love I have for my partner of the opposite sex? And finally, I just felt it was crucial for some of us in the hip hop community to speak up on the issues of teen suicide, bullying, and the overall anti-homosexual sentiment that exist within hip hop culture. I felt so strongly about these issues and this song that I had to do a video that would command some attention, even if it makes some viewers uncomfortable. Even if it came at the cost of my own comfort."
I'm ambivalent about this. To a point, I can appreciate what dude is trying to do, but I question whether depicting queer love purely in terms of torment and victimhood and sociopathy is the best way to do it. I would think that people who think of homosexual relationships as positive would most likely be saddened by a portrayal like this, where people who think of them as negative would most likely see it as "good riddance to bad rubbish." I don't know exactly who something like this is for, really, or exactly which unsympathetic views it's meant to challenge.
"Is the love shared by two people of the same gender, really that different than the love I have for my partner of the opposite sex?" I'm not trying to be flip, but I mean, unless the listener can imagine themselves shooting their partner between the eyes in a fast-food restaurant before killing themselves, I think the answer is likely to be, "There seem to be some differences, yes." I feel like whatever good intentions he may have had, by rooting it all in denial and absent father figures and bullying and gangs and incarceration and ultimately murder/suicide, the strongest message in the song becomes: There is something wrong with those people.
Murs Explains His Reasons for the Gay Kiss in 'Animal Style'
7.16.2012
By Jerry Portwood
The hip-hop artist explains his reasons for making the video and that he's OK if the hip-hop community rejects him???as long as he helps one person
Since hip-hop artist Murs released the video for ???Animal Style,??? in which he plays a character dating a guy on the DL and then kisses that man, reactions have been polarized. In many online forums and venues, hip-hop fans have hurled homophobic rants at the rapper, while on more sympathetic websites, people have expressed their support.
In the video for the single, from his 2011 album, Love & Rockets Vol. 1, Murs plays a closeted guy in a relationship with another man that ends in a chilling image of murder and suicide. "Boyfriend Roderick kept his secret closeted/ Scared to come out into this world of zero tolerance," Murs raps. "Wanted Roderick to follow him/ He see him in the halls/ But Rod would never acknowledge him."
When we spoke to Murs, he said he intended the video to stir up feelings of empathy and remorse. ???We spent very little on the video,??? Murs explained by phone from Tucson, Arizona, where he currently lives. ???The song has been out since November and no one paid any attention to it. It???s not about me, it???s about starting a conversation. If two people were arguing over whether Murs is gay or not, or what the point of the video is, that was the point. I???m not here to promote an agenda. The song speaks for itself, and I didn???t take a stance. But I guess, yeah, the video was me advocating for marriage equality.???
We asked Murs about his wife???s support in making the video, the reaction from producers and other hip-hop artists, and who the guy in the video is that he kisses. And whether he would do it all again. He says of course he would, "But I would want to make the kiss more believable."
You wrote on the YouTube page for the video that you felt it was important to show that same-sex love wasn't that different from ???the love I have for my partner of the opposite sex,??? which seems pretty profound for someone in the hip-hop community to put out there. What was the process that you went through when discussing, scripting, filming the video?
The reaction is kind of strange. I don???t really read the comments, and I would never look to some of these media outlets for approval. My main concern is with the LGBT community, that they have responded favorably. Being a straight male, and stepping into that role, I was nervous about the reaction from the gay community.
But the way straight people have reacted? I could really care less. Oh and how my wife would react. That matters.
Oh, how did your wife handle it?
She???s all for it. Her grandmother is gay, or was: She just passed. It was really important to her; we have friends and family that are gay, so it was important to make a statement. You know, it???s cool to be liberal and say people should be able to do what they want to do. But then when your husband is in a video on the Internet kissing another man. That???s different.
So were you nervous how she would react to it?
I was nervous. She seemed open-minded, but she could freak out about it. The guy in the video is her personal trainer, Armando. He???s a boxer. We were friends, and we both trained at the same gym. He heard the song, and he was comfortable with it. But I wanted to make sure, you know, I said, ???I don???t want to assume that you want to kiss me. You could find me completely unattractive.???
After hearing his story, of him being gay, and as a boxer, being in this very macho sport, in a small town in Arizona, and what he had to deal with... He was happy to do it. He said his boyfriend saw the video and cried. I just thought, I didn???t think it could be such a rewarding experience that way.
Anywhere along the way you were like, wait, maybe this is too intense? Maybe I don???t want to do that?
I felt like I had to do this. I had to commit. My goal was to, as a rapper, to bring some legitimacy to the art form. You know, Straight Outta Compton was jarring, because America didn???t want to see or hear these things. Now it???s been sensationalized, and now it???s the status quo. Public Enemy said some jarring things initially, too. But no one is using rap as a vehicle to shake things up. I initially wanted to play the other character.
The one that Armando plays?
Yeah, but I thought that could be more offensive. As it got closer, I thought, I don???t think I could do it. I don???t think I could make it believable.
Then the producer said, ???Why don???t you just play the other guy.??? I hadn???t thought of that. I didn???t think it was going to be difficult. But as it got closer, I thought, ???Holy shit, I???m going to have to kiss a man.??? It wasn???t Mondo, we were friends, but I was nervous about making it believable.
So where was it shot, some place in Los Angeles?
It???s all filmed in Tucson, that???s where I live now.
But isn???t Arizona considered pretty conservative? Why live there?
Tucson is probably the Berkeley or Austin of Arizona. The rest of Arizona is very anti-Obama. The only thing they are pro, is pro-Jesus and pro-gun. But I just always liked the people here [in Tucson]. I grew up in L.A. and everyone is always networking all the time. People here just wake up, go to work, and go home. They drink a lot of Bud Light. I grew up with people who were going to be actors, or legitimate drug dealers or legitimate killers. Here people are living and enjoying life.
That scene where you pull out a gun and shoot the young man in the face is pretty intense. There's a long history of gay characters being depicted in popular entertainment, as long as they die at the end, to sort of pay for their sins. Did you think about how that shooting would play out to a gay audience?
I guess the idea is that he hated himself, so he hated his [boyfriend]. He loved him so much, he didn???t want to live with all the bullshit they were going through. That idea that you love someone so much, and if you can???t live in this society comfortably, that you wouldn???t want to live in this life.
I try to not go too deep about it in my personal life because there are people in my personal life who haven???t come out. I can tell the strain they are in when I see them at gatherings. I can tell how horrible it has made them feel. Some of them have picked up a lot of bad habits. You know, it???s like when you eat more than you should or drink more than you should because you are dealing with issues.
But some people seem to think that scene is just shocking or exploitative. Was the intention to show how bullying and violence are actually taking place in many schools and in tense environments?
It might be sensational or extreme, but I think it???s horrible to live on a planet where people feel so bad about themselves they think about killing for nothing other than being themselves. I don???t think it???s a common or everyday occurence. But I think the feeling that you want to do that can be common among gay teens. Especially in hip-hop.
Although the song was out for a while, with the timing of the video???s release after Frank Ocean's revelation, people are obviously making that connection. Do you think hip-hop and R&B are ready for this evolution of thought?
I think it???s a very important that Frank did that. I mean, on a personal level, I think it was liberating for him. For culture, for hip-hop, for R&B, for urban culture. I think it???s great, everyone loves this kid, and he???s a very talented person. I don???t think it has affected his sales. I don???t think anyone went out and bought his album because he made that statement or came out. And it hasn???t hurt the sales.
I think it should have no more significance than the color of his shoes or his eyes. He???s a musician, not a teacher. It???s like, no one asks me what my wife looks like. It???s so funny to me that???s the way hip-hop is. We know certain individuals have never lived the criminal lifestyle, but they rap about it like they have and people by their albums, with no problem. Then what someone does in their personal life should make a difference. Or I kiss a man in a video; I???m playing a gay person? That should make a difference about the music? There???s a message behind [???Animal Style???] of peace and love and acceptance. As long as I???m lying, singing about destruction and death and illicit sexual encounters, then it???s OK?
I wonder, do you think having a black president who spoke positively of marriage quality helped with this change in the black community?
I think it has. I think it???s been a slow change. Frank Ocean, myself, President Obama, I think if all these things were happening without the president, the community may not have been as accepting. I got to perform at Obama???s party at the Democratic National Convention, and he said something about marriage equality then. My jaw dropped. I mean, I remember: no president, black or otherwise, has said that. It didn???t change how I felt, but it made me want to do something.
Finally, now that you've seen/experienced the reactions to the video, would you do it all again?
No, I wouldn???t take back anything. If anything, I would try to make the kiss more believable. I did it for the few people who have reached me personally and thanked me. It???s meant a lot to hear that and that it made people feel more comfortable with themselves.
You know, when I first started dating my wife, she sent me the Harvey Milk movie, and I was so impressed at his message and bravery. Even if I reach one person, I???m willing to take everything else that comes my way. If I get called a couple of names on the Internet, or some people don???t like me now, if I can help one person, it???s worth it.
This was a song I tried to do with other producers, and they were just like, we???re cool, but you can???t do that.
I don???t know who will want to rap with me live or who won???t shake my hand now. I don???t know if there???s certain labels or producers who will not work with me. But I can handle it.
I???m impressed that you???re being so bold and saying that you might have damaged your career in some ways but you wouldn???t change it. That???s pretty brave for a straight guy to do and say. I hope you do get support.
You know, this was my opportunity to speak to the gay community. And I???m sorry if I offended anyone. I???m just thankful for all the love and support that I???ve received.
This video/story has been picked up by both Gawker, Out Magazine and now Huffington Post. Crazy. Video's new, but the song has been out 9 months now.
**Sidenote: I tried to post the Out Magazine website link for this article and I got a message saying "Action Denied. Blacklisted Item Found." WTF?!?!
i'm not so sure this cat is as gay as he would have us believe.
too funny! it's a conspiracy!
as he would have us believe or all the hype and publicity around him?
ok that came out wrong (ahem).
this FO gay/bi palaver will eventually be forgotten...
meanwhile FO will be up to his neck in bootylicious babes.
Just outta curiosity, who gives a fuck about any of this? I don't care if the dude likes aliens, either the music is good and resonates with you or it doesn't.
Just outta curiosity, who gives a fuck about any of this?
i dunno maybe whoever started this thread, for one.
personally i really don't care, and probably never would have known about this if not for this thread.
edit: ok i probably would have found out at some point. but yeah, when it's all said and done, it's the music. and i like it.
my favorite Frank Ocean moment prior to this has been the youtube of the OMGWTFKA posse cut "Oldie", while the other kids jostle and get rambunctious, Ocean texts on his phone and knowingly shrugs to the camera on some "I'm didn't come here with these guys".
I don't care if the dude likes aliens, either the music is good and resonates with you or it doesn't.
In theory the music is all that should matter.
In reality, for most of us, most of our musically choices are based in part on image.
Most soulstrut music talk revolves around image.
Why don't you like that artist?
She is (or her fans are) a (pick one) backpacker, dirty south, crunk, jam band, white person with dreads, skinny jeans, emo, ghey....
Cali emcee Murs presents the Hobostewd-directed music video for "Animal Style", the Embassy-produced track from his recent BluRoc release Love & Rockets Volume 1: The Transformation. "Animal Style is a song I did for many reasons," Murs explains. "The first was to be an advocate for people close to me who are out, and those who have yet to come out. It's also a love song, which is nothing new for me. But with this one I wanted to challenge the listener to ask themselves: Is the love shared by two people of the same gender, really that different than the love I have for my partner of the opposite sex? And finally, I just felt it was crucial for some of us in the hip hop community to speak up on the issues of teen suicide, bullying, and the overall anti-homosexual sentiment that exist within hip hop culture. I felt so strongly about these issues and this song that I had to do a video that would command some attention, even if it makes some viewers uncomfortable. Even if it came at the cost of my own comfort."
I'm ambivalent about this. To a point, I can appreciate what dude is trying to do, but I question whether depicting queer love purely in terms of torment and victimhood and sociopathy is the best way to do it. I would think that people who think of homosexual relationships as positive would most likely be saddened by a portrayal like this, where people who think of them as negative would most likely see it as "good riddance to bad rubbish." I don't know exactly who something like this is for, really, or exactly which unsympathetic views it's meant to challenge.
"Is the love shared by two people of the same gender, really that different than the love I have for my partner of the opposite sex?" I'm not trying to be flip, but I mean, unless the listener can imagine themselves shooting their partner between the eyes in a fast-food restaurant before killing themselves, I think the answer is likely to be, "There seem to be some differences, yes." I feel like whatever good intentions he may have had, by rooting it all in denial and absent father figures and bullying and gangs and incarceration and ultimately murder/suicide, the strongest message in the song becomes: There is something wrong with those people.
Murs Explains His Reasons for the Gay Kiss in 'Animal Style'
7.16.2012
By Jerry Portwood
The hip-hop artist explains ...
I guess that's an interesting (if somewhat aggrandizing) interview, but it doesn't really address any of the problems I have with the song or with his ostensible motivations in doing it. The greatest violence depicted in the song is a closed circuit between two gay guys, and whatever finger it's trying to point at wider society is nothing next to the finger it indvertently points at the destructive potential of queer love; whatever abstract effect the bullying attitude of the straight world might have had, it kinda pales next to the fact that this is one gay guy murdering the other. The most charitable reading I can give of the message this sends is : "Society, look at what you make these poor fucked-up people do!"
Plus, all that stuff in the bottom third--about "Never knew his father / Or spent time with any other men..." then getting caught up in crime and going to prison where he meets his first boyfriend--kinda gives the impression that the narrator thinks that Roderick was "turned gay" by shitty circumstances. What's up with that?
Again, dude's heart was clearly in the right place, but I don't think that gets you extra points in 2012. While it's a fine piece of work, it's tough to think that it hasn't on some level been a beneficiary of low expectations--low expectations by gays, low expectations by straights, low expectations by Murs himself, low expectations by us--for hip-hop's treatment of gay folks. It's a dramatically effective song*, but an ideologically flawed one, and if it was being framed as a creative, well-done narrative, it'd be one thing, but to frame it as challenging and progressive and all that is, I think, wrong-headed.
*Purely on some writing shit, I have to say that for a song 1) that concerns behavior considered by many to be subhuman and 2) that climaxes in an In-N-Out Burger, the title "Animal Style" is fucking genius. Whatever greivances I have with the song, my hat is off to dude for that.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Cali emcee Murs presents the Hobostewd-directed music video for "Animal Style", the Embassy-produced track from his recent BluRoc release Love & Rockets Volume 1: The Transformation. "Animal Style is a song I did for many reasons," Murs explains. "The first was to be an advocate for people close to me who are out, and those who have yet to come out. It's also a love song, which is nothing new for me. But with this one I wanted to challenge the listener to ask themselves: Is the love shared by two people of the same gender, really that different than the love I have for my partner of the opposite sex? And finally, I just felt it was crucial for some of us in the hip hop community to speak up on the issues of teen suicide, bullying, and the overall anti-homosexual sentiment that exist within hip hop culture. I felt so strongly about these issues and this song that I had to do a video that would command some attention, even if it makes some viewers uncomfortable. Even if it came at the cost of my own comfort."
I'm ambivalent about this. To a point, I can appreciate what dude is trying to do, but I question whether depicting queer love purely in terms of torment and victimhood and sociopathy is the best way to do it. I would think that people who think of homosexual relationships as positive would most likely be saddened by a portrayal like this, where people who think of them as negative would most likely see it as "good riddance to bad rubbish." I don't know exactly who something like this is for, really, or exactly which unsympathetic views it's meant to challenge.
"Is the love shared by two people of the same gender, really that different than the love I have for my partner of the opposite sex?" I'm not trying to be flip, but I mean, unless the listener can imagine themselves shooting their partner between the eyes in a fast-food restaurant before killing themselves, I think the answer is likely to be, "There seem to be some differences, yes." I feel like whatever good intentions he may have had, by rooting it all in denial and absent father figures and bullying and gangs and incarceration and ultimately murder/suicide, the strongest message in the song becomes: There is something wrong with those people.
Murs Explains His Reasons for the Gay Kiss in 'Animal Style'
7.16.2012
By Jerry Portwood
The hip-hop artist explains ...
I guess that's an interesting (if somewhat aggrandizing) interview, but it doesn't really address any of the problems I have with the song or with his ostensible motivations in doing it. The greatest violence depicted in the song is a closed circuit between two gay guys, and whatever finger it's trying to point at wider society is nothing next to the finger it indvertently points at the destructive potential of queer love; whatever abstract effect the bullying attitude of the straight world might have had, it kinda pales next to the fact that this is one gay guy murdering the other. The most charitable reading I can give of the message this sends is : "Society, look at what you make these poor fucked-up people do!"
Plus, all that stuff in the bottom third--about "Never knew his father / Or spent time with any other men..." then getting caught up in crime and going to prison where he meets his first boyfriend--kinda gives the impression that the narrator thinks that Roderick was "turned gay" by shitty circumstances. What's up with that?
Again, dude's heart was clearly in the right place, but I don't think that gets you extra points in 2012. While it's a fine piece of work, it's tough to think that it hasn't on some level been a beneficiary of low expectations--low expectations by gays, low expectations by straights, low expectations by Murs himself, low expectations by us--for hip-hop's treatment of gay folks. It's a dramatically effective song*, but an ideologically flawed one, and if it was being framed as a creative, well-done narrative, it'd be one thing, but to frame it as challenging and progressive and all that is, I think, wrong-headed.
*Purely on some writing shit, I have to say that for a song 1) that concerns behavior considered by many to be subhuman and 2) that climaxes in an In-N-Out Burger, the title "Animal Style" is fucking genius. Whatever greivances I have with the song, my hat is off to dude for that.
Perhaps it is a good thing that he wasn't trying to be PC.
Conflict makes for good story telling.
Joe always knew he was gay/ he met another well adjusted gay man/ they loved each other just like to heterosexual people lover each other
Might tell a story you want to hear, but it is kind of boring.
Conflicted, maladjusted, abused people who act out violently are far more interesting.
Stevie Wonder's Black Man shouts out a bunch of famous, or should be famous, people of different races.
Living For The City tells of an impoverished man jailed for drug dealing who ends up disillusioned, cynical and unemployed.
Which is the better message? Which is the better song?
*Purely on some writing shit, I have to say that for a song 1) that concerns behavior considered by many to be subhuman and 2) that climaxes in an In-N-Out Burger, the title "Animal Style" is fucking genius. Whatever greivances I have with the song, my hat is off to dude for that.
Not to mention that 'Roderick' and 'Jonathan' are some great names to work with from a story rap perspective.
I hear your points and understand why you feel the way you feel, but this is ONE story. And though it may not be one that's based on any particular true story, this HAS happened many times. There are plenty people out there who are so scared to show the world who they are that they turn to horrible destructive alternatives. The song wasn't meant to sum up all homosexuality. Sadly, I feel that if this was merely a 'Jack loves John lalalalalala' song no one would bat an eye.
As far as the prison thing goes, your perspective is the first time I even considered that possibility. I didn't take it as "prison (and the preceding circumstances) made him gay" at all. I just figured he was gay all along but prison was where he was able to explore it. Maybe your perspective is indeed the correct one. Or maybe it's not. Who knows? Personally, I don't think that matters at all. (I have read that there are people who are more comfortable with their homosexuality in prison and thus take the aforementioned "destructive alternatives" to make sure they stay locked up.)
But yeah, it's not a pretty story. I wasn't lying when I said I get teary-eyed when I hear it. It's very sad and (in certain ways) powerful and will hopefully open some eyes and hearts, both of people who may make others' lives miserable for feeling or being a way that they are, or of people who are so scared to be themselves that they bottle it up/hide it. And maybe this will give another rapper the courage to make a song that you (and people who feel the same way you do about Murs' attempt) can completely agree with. Personally, I don't even think a song is needed. Just a simple "Yeah, people are gay...And??" attitude would help immensely.
**Edit: Laserwolf said what I was trying to say but better. Thanks, D*n!
*Purely on some writing shit, I have to say that for a song 1) that concerns behavior considered by many to be subhuman and 2) that climaxes in an In-N-Out Burger, the title "Animal Style" is fucking genius. Whatever greivances I have with the song, my hat is off to dude for that.
Not to mention that 'Roderick' and 'Jonathan' are some great names to work with from a story rap perspective.
Right? They're rhymey without being like "Ted" and "Fred," they're phonetically similar in terms of flow, they're both configurable to one, two, or three syllables, and on and on. Dude is a pro, no doubt.
this is ONE story...The song wasn't meant to sum up all homosexuality.
I don't know. Reading what he's said, it's pretty clear that he considers this song to be a big statement, that he views it in terms of his advocacy for closted gays, his challenge to listeners, his statement as a member of the hip-hop community, etc. There doesn't seem to be a point where he backs off and says what you're saying and what I fully agree with, which is, "Hey, this is just one story."
In his defense, though, he's in a pretty tough spot: If he plays up the significance of the song, then he ends up (and I think this is probably close to what happened) taking a song that he composed with only the best intentions and in a very personal, very human, and thus very imperfect state of mind and presenting that song as a capital-s Statement, bringing upon it the kind of scrutiny that in its most honest moment of creation it was never meant to bear, giving rise to kind of inconsistencies and issues that have me so heated. But if he downplays the significance of the song, then he's selling out gay folks. Given that same choice, I'd probably do something like what he's doing.
My beef with the whole thing still stands, but I'm letting it go. I'm sure dude is thinking a lot about all this stuff right now, and I'll be interested to see how/if he handles it next time.
As far as the prison thing goes, your perspective is the first time I even considered that possibility. I didn't take it as "prison (and the preceding circumstances) made him gay" at all. I just figured he was gay all along but prison was where he was able to explore it. Maybe your perspective is indeed the correct one. Or maybe it's not. Who knows?
Well, it's the combination that makes it so suspect. Three of the biggest bogeymen among Things That Turn Dudes Gay are 1) absent fathers, 2) lack of strong male role models, and 3) time in the joint. It seems inconceivable that Murs would have been unaware of these stereotypes, so to see them presented one-two-three as pretty much Roderick's whole story is disappointing as fuck.
Joe always knew he was gay/ he met another well adjusted gay man/ they loved each other just like to heterosexual people lover each other
Might tell a story you want to hear, but it is kind of boring.
Well, yeah. I guess my thinking is that, as a pro-gay dude, the kind of "story [that I'd] want to hear"--the boring, well-adjusted, story--would be more of a shock to the sensibility of anti-gay dude than would the story of the homo sociopath whose destructive homo love makes him kill another homo dude at some homo restaurant out in Homofornia.
The story-telling is not the issue here. The issue is the rhetoric that's being hitched to it.
I think the story has the ring of truth.
It is about a comfortable out man in love with a closeted man.
I think it is clear that the lack of father figure is about turning to crime.
Like many, most? all?, closeted men he is not comfortable with his sexuality.
He is conflicted by his perception of what his friends and god* will think.
He doesn't commit murder/suicide because he is gay and gays are evil.
He commits murder/suicide because there is no place for him in his world.
This is a common story (except maybe the murder part).
The US Congress is filled with men trying to hide/deny their sexuality, as just one example.
I don't think the homo-sociopath/murderer is the typical stereotype in anti-gay land.
I think the stereotype is, gays are pansies who decorate houses, cut hair and recruit children.
A man capable of murdering another man does not fit that stereotype.
*The conflict between human sexuality and religious belief is epic. Around these parts no one believes in religion so it is hard to imagine, but it is very real.
But that is not what I want to say.
What I want to say is, not every gay man in fiction (or the real world) needs to be a role model or a 'credit to his sexuality'.
Saw him last night in Boston and he put on an amazing show with a small band. No opener, just him and he sounds as good as he sounds on record. Intimate venue, so awesome.
Big_Stacks"I don't worry about hittin' power, cause I don't give 'em nuttin' to hit." 4,670 Posts
djanna said:
Saw him last night in Boston and he put on an amazing show with a small band. No opener, just him and he sounds as good as he sounds on record. Intimate venue, so awesome.
Hey DJ Anna,
What's up? I put a call out to 'Boston Strutters' a week ago and you nor Cas didn't holla. I'll be in your fair city on August 1st for a few day. I'd like to check out some rackord stores, check out some nice restaurants, and maybe see a show. If you can, hit me on the PMs if you have some info. It's great to see your face up here on the 'Strut.
Comments
Pretty sure he's bi. Or once was. His only admission thus far was that his first love was a man.
yeah.
i'm just gonna say i bet we never see or hear of this cat with a dude ever again.
This video/story has been picked up by both Gawker, Out Magazine and now Huffington Post. Crazy. Video's new, but the song has been out 9 months now.
**Sidenote: I tried to post the Out Magazine website link for this article and I got a message saying "Action Denied. Blacklisted Item Found." WTF?!?!
Wait...are you one of those "he only did it for publicity" people?
too funny! it's a conspiracy!
as he would have us believe or all the hype and publicity around him?
In before the Illuminati
YEAH KINDA...U MEAN UR NOT?
ok that came out wrong (ahem).
this FO gay/bi palaver will eventually be forgotten...
meanwhile FO will be up to his neck in bootylicious babes.
Just outta curiosity, who gives a fuck about any of this? I don't care if the dude likes aliens, either the music is good and resonates with you or it doesn't.
i dunno maybe whoever started this thread, for one.
personally i really don't care, and probably never would have known about this if not for this thread.
edit: ok i probably would have found out at some point. but yeah, when it's all said and done, it's the music. and i like it.
In theory the music is all that should matter.
In reality, for most of us, most of our musically choices are based in part on image.
Most soulstrut music talk revolves around image.
Why don't you like that artist?
She is (or her fans are) a (pick one) backpacker, dirty south, crunk, jam band, white person with dreads, skinny jeans, emo, ghey....
Alright Bassie, if you had to choose, Ocean or Omar?
lol What I am choosing?
I don't factor into the equation.
Who's hawter?
Neither, to be honest - Ocean is too young and Williams is too pretty.
I guess that's an interesting (if somewhat aggrandizing) interview, but it doesn't really address any of the problems I have with the song or with his ostensible motivations in doing it. The greatest violence depicted in the song is a closed circuit between two gay guys, and whatever finger it's trying to point at wider society is nothing next to the finger it indvertently points at the destructive potential of queer love; whatever abstract effect the bullying attitude of the straight world might have had, it kinda pales next to the fact that this is one gay guy murdering the other. The most charitable reading I can give of the message this sends is : "Society, look at what you make these poor fucked-up people do!"
Plus, all that stuff in the bottom third--about "Never knew his father / Or spent time with any other men..." then getting caught up in crime and going to prison where he meets his first boyfriend--kinda gives the impression that the narrator thinks that Roderick was "turned gay" by shitty circumstances. What's up with that?
Again, dude's heart was clearly in the right place, but I don't think that gets you extra points in 2012. While it's a fine piece of work, it's tough to think that it hasn't on some level been a beneficiary of low expectations--low expectations by gays, low expectations by straights, low expectations by Murs himself, low expectations by us--for hip-hop's treatment of gay folks. It's a dramatically effective song*, but an ideologically flawed one, and if it was being framed as a creative, well-done narrative, it'd be one thing, but to frame it as challenging and progressive and all that is, I think, wrong-headed.
*Purely on some writing shit, I have to say that for a song 1) that concerns behavior considered by many to be subhuman and 2) that climaxes in an In-N-Out Burger, the title "Animal Style" is fucking genius. Whatever greivances I have with the song, my hat is off to dude for that.
Perhaps it is a good thing that he wasn't trying to be PC.
Conflict makes for good story telling.
Joe always knew he was gay/ he met another well adjusted gay man/ they loved each other just like to heterosexual people lover each other
Might tell a story you want to hear, but it is kind of boring.
Conflicted, maladjusted, abused people who act out violently are far more interesting.
Stevie Wonder's Black Man shouts out a bunch of famous, or should be famous, people of different races.
Living For The City tells of an impoverished man jailed for drug dealing who ends up disillusioned, cynical and unemployed.
Which is the better message? Which is the better song?
Not to mention that 'Roderick' and 'Jonathan' are some great names to work with from a story rap perspective.
I hear your points and understand why you feel the way you feel, but this is ONE story. And though it may not be one that's based on any particular true story, this HAS happened many times. There are plenty people out there who are so scared to show the world who they are that they turn to horrible destructive alternatives. The song wasn't meant to sum up all homosexuality. Sadly, I feel that if this was merely a 'Jack loves John lalalalalala' song no one would bat an eye.
As far as the prison thing goes, your perspective is the first time I even considered that possibility. I didn't take it as "prison (and the preceding circumstances) made him gay" at all. I just figured he was gay all along but prison was where he was able to explore it. Maybe your perspective is indeed the correct one. Or maybe it's not. Who knows? Personally, I don't think that matters at all. (I have read that there are people who are more comfortable with their homosexuality in prison and thus take the aforementioned "destructive alternatives" to make sure they stay locked up.)
But yeah, it's not a pretty story. I wasn't lying when I said I get teary-eyed when I hear it. It's very sad and (in certain ways) powerful and will hopefully open some eyes and hearts, both of people who may make others' lives miserable for feeling or being a way that they are, or of people who are so scared to be themselves that they bottle it up/hide it. And maybe this will give another rapper the courage to make a song that you (and people who feel the same way you do about Murs' attempt) can completely agree with. Personally, I don't even think a song is needed. Just a simple "Yeah, people are gay...And??" attitude would help immensely.
**Edit: Laserwolf said what I was trying to say but better. Thanks, D*n!
I don't know. Reading what he's said, it's pretty clear that he considers this song to be a big statement, that he views it in terms of his advocacy for closted gays, his challenge to listeners, his statement as a member of the hip-hop community, etc. There doesn't seem to be a point where he backs off and says what you're saying and what I fully agree with, which is, "Hey, this is just one story."
In his defense, though, he's in a pretty tough spot: If he plays up the significance of the song, then he ends up (and I think this is probably close to what happened) taking a song that he composed with only the best intentions and in a very personal, very human, and thus very imperfect state of mind and presenting that song as a capital-s Statement, bringing upon it the kind of scrutiny that in its most honest moment of creation it was never meant to bear, giving rise to kind of inconsistencies and issues that have me so heated. But if he downplays the significance of the song, then he's selling out gay folks. Given that same choice, I'd probably do something like what he's doing.
My beef with the whole thing still stands, but I'm letting it go. I'm sure dude is thinking a lot about all this stuff right now, and I'll be interested to see how/if he handles it next time.
Well, it's the combination that makes it so suspect. Three of the biggest bogeymen among Things That Turn Dudes Gay are 1) absent fathers, 2) lack of strong male role models, and 3) time in the joint. It seems inconceivable that Murs would have been unaware of these stereotypes, so to see them presented one-two-three as pretty much Roderick's whole story is disappointing as fuck.
The story-telling is not the issue here. The issue is the rhetoric that's being hitched to it.
Just read through the lyrics.
I think the story has the ring of truth.
It is about a comfortable out man in love with a closeted man.
I think it is clear that the lack of father figure is about turning to crime.
Like many, most? all?, closeted men he is not comfortable with his sexuality.
He is conflicted by his perception of what his friends and god* will think.
He doesn't commit murder/suicide because he is gay and gays are evil.
He commits murder/suicide because there is no place for him in his world.
This is a common story (except maybe the murder part).
The US Congress is filled with men trying to hide/deny their sexuality, as just one example.
I don't think the homo-sociopath/murderer is the typical stereotype in anti-gay land.
I think the stereotype is, gays are pansies who decorate houses, cut hair and recruit children.
A man capable of murdering another man does not fit that stereotype.
*The conflict between human sexuality and religious belief is epic. Around these parts no one believes in religion so it is hard to imagine, but it is very real.
But that is not what I want to say.
What I want to say is, not every gay man in fiction (or the real world) needs to be a role model or a 'credit to his sexuality'.
02 Thinkin Bout You
07 Super Rich Kids (f. Earl Sweatshirt)
08 Pilot Jones
09 Crack Rock
10 Pyramids
15 Pink Matter (f. Andr?? 3000)
When dude gets it right... it's pretty fucking right. Kinda surprised at how much this invaded my music listening.
Hey DJ Anna,
What's up? I put a call out to 'Boston Strutters' a week ago and you nor Cas didn't holla. I'll be in your fair city on August 1st for a few day. I'd like to check out some rackord stores, check out some nice restaurants, and maybe see a show. If you can, hit me on the PMs if you have some info. It's great to see your face up here on the 'Strut.
Peace,
Big Stacks from Kakalak
frank ocean [pyramids] from christopher francis ocean on Vimeo.