You guys talk like no other rappers get shine besides Kanye. 50 has a best-selling book, a movie coming out, plenty of publicity, a drink, shoes, etc. Jay-Z was just on the front of the NY Times arts and leisure section, and plenty of other music and lifestyle mags. Rappers are getting their due because they are making the music of america right now. Not that I've read the article, but don't be mad. Kanye's not a bad choice.
I'm not saying Kanye is a bad choice. I'm saying that choice doesn't really mean shit.
For us, that's a given.
But to the rest of America it's saying "look, rap is more than what you know it to be" and that's a good thing.
You guys talk like no other rappers get shine besides Kanye. 50 has a best-selling book, a movie coming out, plenty of publicity, a drink, shoes, etc. Jay-Z was just on the front of the NY Times arts and leisure section, and plenty of other music and lifestyle mags. Rappers are getting their due because they are making the music of america right now. Not that I've read the article, but don't be mad. Kanye's not a bad choice.
I'm not saying Kanye is a bad choice. I'm saying that choice doesn't really mean shit.
It doesn't mean shit from a music fans point of view, but it means a lot to the publicity department at Def Jam, to Wal-mart, to Best Buy.
He's not "complicated" or "complex" in the sense that artists like Ice Cube, Tupac or Jay-Z are/were.
He's just plain old contradictory and doesn't seem to have more than a superficial allegiance to any of his ideals.
American can't swallow complicated and complex individuals esp. when they are of a darker color and esp. when they are rappers. Wanna change it, start a magazine that focuses on it. But to hoestly expect for TIME to dig deeper than Kanye is useless. It won't happen.
I apologize but I'm going to repeat a few comments already made. Those being:
1) Does Kanye "deserve" to be on the cover of TIME? I don't think so but like many, I'm not surprised that they'd roll with him. Straight up - he's inoffensive and colorful. Will Smith with better beats and more street rep. I agree with Noz - Jay-Z makes far more sense on many levels. Even 50, though if he showed up, it'd be on some reactionary, "Is 50 Cent Destroying America" type shit.
2) Complaining about the album getting 5 mics in ROLLING STONE is kind of lil dude. Seriously, how does anyone who takes hip-hop seriously possibly take RS seriously when it comes to hip-hop? Frankly, NONE of these publications - and I'm including XXL, The Source, Blender, Pitchfork - holds much weight to me in terms of their ratings.
3) Would I, personally, give "Late Registration" 5 stars? Yes and for these reasons (aka HERE'S MY CRITERIA, BATCHES).
The most important factor to me is that I get more pleasure out of this album than anything I've heard all year. Hands down. This, more than anything, says something to me, especially since I was all ready to hate on the album if necessary.
Is it a perfect album? Not at all. And frankly, if this were 1995 and not 2005, I don't know if we'd be having this conversation. But to me, its strengths overcome its weaknesses.
Mostly, I just think it sounds amazing and it's been a very long time when I listened to a rap album - really listened to it - and thought, "wow, the production on this is stunning."
Are there other deserving 5 mic albums this year? On a gut level, it's hard to say and your gut isn't a very good indication for future evaluations. With a more measured response, I'd say that Beanie Siegel's album was a very, very good album. Potentially a new classic though it didn't create waves in its wake the way you typically think of a classic album causing.
Whereas...Young Jeezy has made a really big splash but while i like the album, like what he brings to the table, he's really one-dimensional to me. At this point, I could really give a fuck how many keys he used to move.
What else? Indie kids will like Quasimoto for being so creative and quirky but he's far more of a niche artist. Danger Doom didn't pan out it seems. I haven't heard the Slim THug album yet so I can't comment.
To me, it's a pretty thin year and "Late Registration" is only one of a handful of LPs that I'll likely even remember by year's end.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Mostly, I just think it sounds amazing and it's been a very long time when I listened to a rap album - really listened to it - and thought, "wow, the production on this is stunning."
That's the thing I was most immediately struck by when I first listened to it - the production really is outstanding. But there's more than a few points where the music doesn't quite measure up to the setting in which it's been placed. A good third of it is superb, and the rest is just OK. It's had a similar level of effusive praise in the press here in the UK, both in the regular music press and the arts sections of the so-called quality papers. I got it today and I've listened to it about four times straight now. It's by no means a bad record, and it'll probably grow on me. I can't see me bumping it constantly and at the expense of almost anything else for the thick end of a month, as I did when College Dropout came out.
I apologize but I'm going to repeat a few comments already made. Those being:
1) Does Kanye "deserve" to be on the cover of TIME? I don't think so but like many, I'm not surprised that they'd roll with him. Straight up - he's inoffensive and colorful. Will Smith with better beats and more street rep. I agree with Noz - Jay-Z makes far more sense on many levels. Even 50, though if he showed up, it'd be on some reactionary, "Is 50 Cent Destroying America" type shit.
2) Complaining about the album getting 5 mics in ROLLING STONE is kind of lil dude. Seriously, how does anyone who takes hip-hop seriously possibly take RS seriously when it comes to hip-hop? Frankly, NONE of these publications - and I'm including XXL, The Source, Blender, Pitchfork - holds much weight to me in terms of their ratings.
3) Would I, personally, give "Late Registration" 5 stars? Yes and for these reasons (aka HERE'S MY CRITERIA, BATCHES).
The most important factor to me is that I get more pleasure out of this album than anything I've heard all year. Hands down. This, more than anything, says something to me, especially since I was all ready to hate on the album if necessary.
Is it a perfect album? Not at all. And frankly, if this were 1995 and not 2005, I don't know if we'd be having this conversation. But to me, its strengths overcome its weaknesses.
Mostly, I just think it sounds amazing and it's been a very long time when I listened to a rap album - really listened to it - and thought, "wow, the production on this is stunning."
Are there other deserving 5 mic albums this year? On a gut level, it's hard to say and your gut isn't a very good indication for future evaluations. With a more measured response, I'd say that Beanie Siegel's album was a very, very good album. Potentially a new classic though it didn't create waves in its wake the way you typically think of a classic album causing.
Whereas...Young Jeezy has made a really big splash but while i like the album, like what he brings to the table, he's really one-dimensional to me. At this point, I could really give a fuck how many keys he used to move.
What else? Indie kids will like Quasimoto for being so creative and quirky but he's far more of a niche artist. Danger Doom didn't pan out it seems. I haven't heard the Slim THug album yet so I can't comment.
To me, it's a pretty thin year and "Late Registration" is only one of a handful of LPs that I'll likely even remember by year's end.
You sound like you are settling on the album... I mean shouldn't a 5 star album be a 5 star by most music critics? The album is ehh IMO. More hype than anything else and that is what I get from most of my non-critical friends that listen to it to. I mean do we have to have a 5 star album eery year? It would be nice but with the way the industry is and its current motivations I would not plan on seeing 5 star albums for a minute.
I'm fine if people think it's crazy to give the album 5 stars and like I said, I definitely have some ambivalence about it when I REALLY think about it. But my relationship to music is first and foremost emotional and listening to the best songs on this album, my gut says, "goddamn, this is really fucking good stuff." On that basis - and perhaps that basis alone - I might be irrationally exhuberent enough to give it 5 stars even though I don't think it's as "important" an album as "College Dropout" or as revolutionary a sophomore album as "De La Soul is Dead" or "Low End Theory."
But about "settling" - what you can settling, I call adapting to the times. If I were to apply the same criteria by which I judged hip-hop 15 years ago, I'd like almost nothing today.
As othres have noted, to me, LR is a more mature album lyrically and musically. It's not a paradigm-shift but it's solid despite a few conspicious flaws. I mean, hell, to this day, I only really like about 60% of "Midnight Marauders" but I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater over it.
I'm fine if people think it's crazy to give the album 5 stars and like I said, I definitely have some ambivalence about it when I REALLY think about it. But my relationship to music is first and foremost emotional and listening to the best songs on this album, my gut says, "goddamn, this is really fucking good stuff." On that basis - and perhaps that basis alone - I might be irrationally exhuberent enough to give it 5 stars even though I don't think it's as "important" an album as "College Dropout" or as revolutionary a sophomore album as "De La Soul is Dead" or "Low End Theory."
But about "settling" - what you can settling, I call adapting to the times. If I were to apply the same criteria by which I judged hip-hop 15 years ago, I'd like almost nothing today.
As othres have noted, to me, LR is a more mature album lyrically and musically. It's not a paradigm-shift but it's solid despite a few conspicious flaws. I mean, hell, to this day, I only really like about 60% of "Midnight Marauders" but I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater over it.
And I am not attacking your review, its all art and its all in the ear of the beholder so to speak. I just happen to disagree. And its not because I am comparing it to older albums, that wouldn't A. be fair, and B. have the same criteria just because of the time of its release. Its just that I didn't hear anything mindblowing on the album that would warrant 5 stars. Kanye still can't rap, his production is eh at best outside of the 2 lead singles. And to me the simple sample of the Curtis Mayfield track is the best track on the album... more hype and I think if you revisit it years form now it would not hold up as a 5 star album. Just sayin.
And I am not attacking your review, its all art and its all in the ear of the beholder so to speak. I just happen to disagree. And its not because I am comparing it to older albums, that wouldn't A. be fair, and B. have the same criteria just because of the time of its release. Its just that I didn't hear anything mindblowing on the album that would warrant 5 stars. Kanye still can't rap, his production is eh at best outside of the 2 lead singles. And to me the simple sample of the Curtis Mayfield track is the best track on the album... more hype and I think if you revisit it years form now it would not hold up as a 5 star album. Just sayin.
Definitely a difference in taste. To me, that Mayfield joint is one of the least interesting and lazy beats on the whole LP. I can't even listen to it anymore.
But "Late," "Heard 'Em Say," "Crack Music," "Gone"? Heavy rotation.
And I am not attacking your review, its all art and its all in the ear of the beholder so to speak. I just happen to disagree. And its not because I am comparing it to older albums, that wouldn't A. be fair, and B. have the same criteria just because of the time of its release. Its just that I didn't hear anything mindblowing on the album that would warrant 5 stars. Kanye still can't rap, his production is eh at best outside of the 2 lead singles. And to me the simple sample of the Curtis Mayfield track is the best track on the album... more hype and I think if you revisit it years form now it would not hold up as a 5 star album. Just sayin.
Definitely a difference in taste. To me, that Mayfield joint is one of the least interesting and lazy beats on the whole LP. I can't even listen to it anymore.
But "Late," "Heard 'Em Say," "Crack Music," "Gone"? Heavy rotation.
I'm not sure if it's been confirmed, but isn't the MAyfield jawn produced by Just Blaze?
And I am not attacking your review, its all art and its all in the ear of the beholder so to speak. I just happen to disagree. And its not because I am comparing it to older albums, that wouldn't A. be fair, and B. have the same criteria just because of the time of its release. Its just that I didn't hear anything mindblowing on the album that would warrant 5 stars. Kanye still can't rap, his production is eh at best outside of the 2 lead singles. And to me the simple sample of the Curtis Mayfield track is the best track on the album... more hype and I think if you revisit it years form now it would not hold up as a 5 star album. Just sayin.
Definitely a difference in taste. To me, that Mayfield joint is one of the least interesting and lazy beats on the whole LP. I can't even listen to it anymore.
But "Late," "Heard 'Em Say," "Crack Music," "Gone"? Heavy rotation.
I'm not sure if it's been confirmed, but isn't the MAyfield jawn produced by Just Blaze?
-e
If it is, it's one of the laziest joints he's done in a minute.
And I am not attacking your review, its all art and its all in the ear of the beholder so to speak. I just happen to disagree. And its not because I am comparing it to older albums, that wouldn't A. be fair, and B. have the same criteria just because of the time of its release. Its just that I didn't hear anything mindblowing on the album that would warrant 5 stars. Kanye still can't rap, his production is eh at best outside of the 2 lead singles. And to me the simple sample of the Curtis Mayfield track is the best track on the album... more hype and I think if you revisit it years form now it would not hold up as a 5 star album. Just sayin.
Definitely a difference in taste. To me, that Mayfield joint is one of the least interesting and lazy beats on the whole LP. I can't even listen to it anymore.
But "Late," "Heard 'Em Say," "Crack Music," "Gone"? Heavy rotation.
I'm not sure if it's been confirmed, but isn't the MAyfield jawn produced by Just Blaze?
-e
If it is, it's one of the laziest joints he's done in a minute.
yeh it is. Adn I am not saying its lazy. I like the sample is all. LAte is alright too, but the rest are ehhh. I'll take Sittin Sideways, Young Jeezy, Little Brother, almost anyone over the rest of the album... straight up sleeper for all thenype it got. Agree to disagree. time for a samich.
And I am not attacking your review, its all art and its all in the ear of the beholder so to speak. I just happen to disagree. And its not because I am comparing it to older albums, that wouldn't A. be fair, and B. have the same criteria just because of the time of its release. Its just that I didn't hear anything mindblowing on the album that would warrant 5 stars. Kanye still can't rap, his production is eh at best outside of the 2 lead singles. And to me the simple sample of the Curtis Mayfield track is the best track on the album... more hype and I think if you revisit it years form now it would not hold up as a 5 star album. Just sayin.
Definitely a difference in taste. To me, that Mayfield joint is one of the least interesting and lazy beats on the whole LP. I can't even listen to it anymore.
But "Late," "Heard 'Em Say," "Crack Music," "Gone"? Heavy rotation.
I'm not sure if it's been confirmed, but isn't the MAyfield jawn produced by Just Blaze?
-e
If it is, it's one of the laziest joints he's done in a minute.
It is a Just beat...but I like that track...a lot.
giving an album 5 stars on principle is the whole reason why rating an album (as opposed to reviewing it) is such a ridiculous practice. to me, giving an album 5 stars is saying that it's not only perfect (as in there are no songs you have any desire to skip), but also monumental (as in it will go down in some cannon of music, be it hip hop or otherwise, as being classic). personally i think late registration doesn't even come close on either of those fronts (though i suppose time will tell). the fact that any publication, even rolling stone, would give such an overblown and self indulgent album as late registration 5 stars (even if it does have multiple moments of brilliance) is just a testament to the hype machine that is currently in full effect in nearly every niche of the media. i can tell that any day my mom is going to be asking me about kanye because i just noticed that there's a story about late registration in this week's New Yorker.
i made myself a CD of late registration without all of the shitty tracks and skits. and i added those japanese bonus songs. i'd give it four stars
Wouldn't this thread have been hotter if we had Archaic around to argue that CVE has the year's only true five-star album, and they belong on the cover of Time?
Don't you guys remember the 63 minutes back around 1999 when The Lilith Festival was going to take over the world? It was fun working at a used record store and watching all the gals trading that CD in the next summer: "Sorry - I'm not allowed to buy any more copies of that one."
Well of course its not cool on this site where everybody is a white suburban underground faggot. These homo's like RJD2 and EL P , and bash all black artists. Kanye is wack because he's on MTV and wears polo and diamonds. If he was some underground typical back pack fag everybody would love him.
Since too many people enjoy his music he's hated by your usual soft, white picket fence lanky underground dirtbag cracka thats scared of female interaction. All of you anti kanye homo's would kill to be in his shoes. I'd rather be kanye west than a cracka ass minimum wage earing honky in skate shoes and cargo pants that hates all hiphop thats not about space and mars with some off beat garbage can drums with abstract obscure brittish samples. Bitch made ass east villiage dyke homo soy latte drinking queers. Fuckin faggots yo.
That's the most interesting take on the Kanye phenomenon yet.
Well of course its not cool on this site where everybody is a white suburban underground faggot. These homo's like RJD2 and EL P , and bash all black artists. Kanye is wack because he's on MTV and wears polo and diamonds. If he was some underground typical back pack fag everybody would love him.
Since too many people enjoy his music he's hated by your usual soft, white picket fence lanky underground dirtbag cracka thats scared of female interaction. All of you anti kanye homo's would kill to be in his shoes. I'd rather be kanye west than a cracka ass minimum wage earing honky in skate shoes and cargo pants that hates all hiphop thats not about space and mars with some off beat garbage can drums with abstract obscure brittish samples. Bitch made ass east villiage dyke homo soy latte drinking queers. Fuckin faggots yo.
There's the argument out there that no album should ever be given a 5 until enough time has gone by to warrant such a rating. I'm fine with that. I doubt you'll convince magazines to do it, but I can appreciate the logic behind that.
Things I can almost guarantee (almost): Kanye's album will make every top 10 list for every major, mainstream music critic and if he's lower than #3 on the Pazz and Jop, I'll be astounded.
He's also likely to win a bunch of Grammy Awards.
He's going to outsell every other rapper this year with the possible exception of 50 Cent...how many units did The Massacre sell, anyways?
This is only going to annoy people more. I don't blame them for being annoyed.
And who knows, maybe I'll be annoyed by the songs I really like on this LP tomorrow. But like I said, I haven't gotten this much pleasure out of even half an album is as long as I can remember.
There's the argument out there that no album should ever be given a 5 until enough time has gone by to warrant such a rating. I'm fine with that. I doubt you'll convince magazines to do it, but I can appreciate the logic behind that.
Things I can almost guarantee (almost): Kanye's album will make every top 10 list for every major, mainstream music critic and if he's lower than #3 on the Pazz and Jop, I'll be astounded.
He's also likely to win a bunch of Grammy Awards.
He's going to outsell every other rapper this year with the possible exception of 50 Cent...how many units did The Massacre sell, anyways?
This is only going to annoy people more. I don't blame them for being annoyed.
And who knows, maybe I'll be annoyed by the songs I really like on this LP tomorrow. But like I said, I haven't gotten this much pleasure out of even half an album is as long as I can remember.
Agreed..
50 has pushed almost 4.3 million copies in 25 weeks. I know he sold something ridiculous his first week (850,000+) Hell he may have even gone platinum after week one.
I think Late Registration will pass the 600,000 marker in the 1st week. A little better than what Game did.
Comments
For us, that's a given.
But to the rest of America it's saying "look, rap is more than what you know it to be" and that's a good thing.
It doesn't mean shit from a music fans point of view, but it means a lot to the publicity department at Def Jam, to Wal-mart, to Best Buy.
JEWEL AND THE GANG?!?!?!?![/b]
1) Does Kanye "deserve" to be on the cover of TIME? I don't think so but like many, I'm not surprised that they'd roll with him. Straight up - he's inoffensive and colorful. Will Smith with better beats and more street rep. I agree with Noz - Jay-Z makes far more sense on many levels. Even 50, though if he showed up, it'd be on some reactionary, "Is 50 Cent Destroying America" type shit.
2) Complaining about the album getting 5 mics in ROLLING STONE is kind of lil dude. Seriously, how does anyone who takes hip-hop seriously possibly take RS seriously when it comes to hip-hop? Frankly, NONE of these publications - and I'm including XXL, The Source, Blender, Pitchfork - holds much weight to me in terms of their ratings.
3) Would I, personally, give "Late Registration" 5 stars? Yes and for these reasons (aka HERE'S MY CRITERIA, BATCHES).
The most important factor to me is that I get more pleasure out of this album than anything I've heard all year. Hands down. This, more than anything, says something to me, especially since I was all ready to hate on the album if necessary.
Is it a perfect album? Not at all. And frankly, if this were 1995 and not 2005, I don't know if we'd be having this conversation. But to me, its strengths overcome its weaknesses.
Mostly, I just think it sounds amazing and it's been a very long time when I listened to a rap album - really listened to it - and thought, "wow, the production on this is stunning."
Are there other deserving 5 mic albums this year? On a gut level, it's hard to say and your gut isn't a very good indication for future evaluations. With a more measured response, I'd say that Beanie Siegel's album was a very, very good album. Potentially a new classic though it didn't create waves in its wake the way you typically think of a classic album causing.
Whereas...Young Jeezy has made a really big splash but while i like the album, like what he brings to the table, he's really one-dimensional to me. At this point, I could really give a fuck how many keys he used to move.
What else? Indie kids will like Quasimoto for being so creative and quirky but he's far more of a niche artist. Danger Doom didn't pan out it seems. I haven't heard the Slim THug album yet so I can't comment.
To me, it's a pretty thin year and "Late Registration" is only one of a handful of LPs that I'll likely even remember by year's end.
That's the thing I was most immediately struck by when I first listened to it - the production really is outstanding. But there's more than a few points where the music doesn't quite measure up to the setting in which it's been placed. A good third of it is superb, and the rest is just OK. It's had a similar level of effusive praise in the press here in the UK, both in the regular music press and the arts sections of the so-called quality papers. I got it today and I've listened to it about four times straight now. It's by no means a bad record, and it'll probably grow on me. I can't see me bumping it constantly and at the expense of almost anything else for the thick end of a month, as I did when College Dropout came out.
Sorry O.
- spidey
You sound like you are settling on the album... I mean shouldn't a 5 star album be a 5 star by most music critics? The album is ehh IMO. More hype than anything else and that is what I get from most of my non-critical friends that listen to it to. I mean do we have to have a 5 star album eery year? It would be nice but with the way the industry is and its current motivations I would not plan on seeing 5 star albums for a minute.
But about "settling" - what you can settling, I call adapting to the times. If I were to apply the same criteria by which I judged hip-hop 15 years ago, I'd like almost nothing today.
As othres have noted, to me, LR is a more mature album lyrically and musically. It's not a paradigm-shift but it's solid despite a few conspicious flaws. I mean, hell, to this day, I only really like about 60% of "Midnight Marauders" but I'm not tossing the baby out with the bathwater over it.
Really. I'm not being sarcastic.
And I am not attacking your review, its all art and its all in the ear of the beholder so to speak. I just happen to disagree. And its not because I am comparing it to older albums, that wouldn't A. be fair, and B. have the same criteria just because of the time of its release. Its just that I didn't hear anything mindblowing on the album that would warrant 5 stars. Kanye still can't rap, his production is eh at best outside of the 2 lead singles. And to me the simple sample of the Curtis Mayfield track is the best track on the album... more hype and I think if you revisit it years form now it would not hold up as a 5 star album. Just sayin.
Definitely a difference in taste. To me, that Mayfield joint is one of the least interesting and lazy beats on the whole LP. I can't even listen to it anymore.
But "Late," "Heard 'Em Say," "Crack Music," "Gone"? Heavy rotation.
I'm not sure if it's been confirmed, but isn't the MAyfield jawn produced by Just Blaze?
-e
If it is, it's one of the laziest joints he's done in a minute.
yeh it is. Adn I am not saying its lazy. I like the sample is all. LAte is alright too, but the rest are ehhh. I'll take Sittin Sideways, Young Jeezy, Little Brother, almost anyone over the rest of the album... straight up sleeper for all thenype it got. Agree to disagree. time for a samich.
touch the sky
It is a Just beat...but I like that track...a lot.
i made myself a CD of late registration without all of the shitty tracks and skits. and i added those japanese bonus songs. i'd give it four stars
i just barfed on my keyboard....
Wouldn't this thread have been hotter if we had Archaic around to argue that CVE has the year's only true five-star album, and they belong on the cover of Time?
Don't you guys remember the 63 minutes back around 1999 when The Lilith Festival was going to take over the world? It was fun working at a used record store and watching all the gals trading that CD in the next summer:
"Sorry - I'm not allowed to buy any more copies of that one."
Are u feeling this more than the Quas? I'm listening to the Kanye now (Anasarcasm hooked me up)- half of it is really amazing & the other half is
Kanye sounds like he's biting Mos on "Drive Slow". "Slow Down" was prolly a better song.
peace
h
That's the most interesting take on the Kanye phenomenon yet.
Things I can almost guarantee (almost): Kanye's album will make every top 10 list for every major, mainstream music critic and if he's lower than #3 on the Pazz and Jop, I'll be astounded.
He's also likely to win a bunch of Grammy Awards.
He's going to outsell every other rapper this year with the possible exception of 50 Cent...how many units did The Massacre sell, anyways?
This is only going to annoy people more. I don't blame them for being annoyed.
And who knows, maybe I'll be annoyed by the songs I really like on this LP tomorrow. But like I said, I haven't gotten this much pleasure out of even half an album is as long as I can remember.
Agreed..
50 has pushed almost 4.3 million copies in 25 weeks. I know he sold something ridiculous his first week (850,000+) Hell he may have even gone platinum after week one.
I think Late Registration will pass the 600,000 marker in the 1st week. A little better than what Game did.
cosign on all of these statements. in addition i think he will outsell 50. the crossover on this album is going to be fucking nuts.