I'm totally digging this thread, damn good read so far.
Non-black people who told grafwritah to simmer down:[/b] I believe the reason racism continues on, especially in more liberal circles is becuase it is not confronted as head on as it should be. Folks think it rude or "not their place" to ask tough questions or even just curiousity questions to black people when it comes to race. This does nothing but allows the hate to go on without an exact understanding of why. Grafwritah is doing what most people should do, which is be brave enough to get the answers he needed to hear.
Grafwritah:[/b] Keep doing what your doing. As your time on this site goes on I've grown to have way more respect for you.
EdPowers:[/b] You still got the internet going nuts. keep the dialogue going
Soulman:[/b] You need to post more 80's hip-hop Phil photos. Them shits is nice.
I had a few chicks who used to grease my scalp and braid my hair for me back in the days
HAHAHAH...Oh shit
I was in the grocery store last week in the personal care section and picked up a can of this, opened it, sniffed that shit it and it took me WAAAAY back to 7th grade every day when I'd break out my greasy brush and balled up doo rag from the bathroom drawer!
Dude, EVERY TIME I'm in the store and I see a can of it, I open it up to smell it and that shit triggers mad memories. Let's Jam doesn't fail for that.
I ride transit a lot and I love watching people and I love watching people watching other people even more. What I do not love though, is how peoples' faces change when young Black men get on or act loud. Or body language when dark skinned men (from anywhere in the world...for instance we have a large Sri Lankan community in Toronto) stand near/sit down next to them. Women react more than men and I find old white women have the strongest/most visible reactions. I've seen people actually get the fuck up and move. And no one really likes a dread. And very recently, people try not to, but can't help it, but try not to, but they'll sneak a look or two and try to take in as much as they can, you know...just in case, if it's a dark-ish dude with a beard.
I walk home late after dark a lot and I don't care what the dude looks like - I do the same thing no matter what. If a dude is behind me I'll cross the street and slow down so I can see him. If he's hanging around and I'm walking towards him/them (there's a lot of dudes who just hang in my neighbourhood), I'll get as much distance between us and keep going. If he's walking in front, I'll stay at least two houses/buildings behind. Straight up, it does occur to me that Black dudes might think I'm doing it just because they're Black and it bugs me. I don't want to make anyone feel like that.
I walk home late after dark a lot and I don't care what the dude looks like - I do the same thing no matter what. If a dude is behind me I'll cross the street and slow down so I can see him. If he's hanging around and I'm walking towards him/them (there's a lot of dudes who just hang in my neighbourhood), I'll get as much distance between us and keep going. If he's walking in front, I'll stay at least two houses/buildings behind. Straight up, it does occur to me that Black dudes might think I'm doing it just because they're Black and it bugs me. I don't want to make anyone feel like that.
Missbassie, do not feel guilty at all for trying to be as safe as possible when you're walking home late after dark. Do what you have to do and just get home in one piece. It is kinda f**ked up that black males get stereotyped, but I'm a black male and believe me, when I'm in certain areas at certain times I'm just as leary of a black male as anybody else might be. Sometimes it ain't stereotyping, it's just common sense. I think that's a lot different than the scenarios that Stacks and Drewn described.
I walk home late after dark a lot and I don't care what the dude looks like - I do the same thing no matter what. If a dude is behind me I'll cross the street and slow down so I can see him. If he's hanging around and I'm walking towards him/them (there's a lot of dudes who just hang in my neighbourhood), I'll get as much distance between us and keep going. If he's walking in front, I'll stay at least two houses/buildings behind. Straight up, it does occur to me that Black dudes might think I'm doing it just because they're Black and it bugs me. I don't want to make anyone feel like that.
Missbassie, do not feel guilty at all for trying to be as safe as possible when you're walking home late after dark. Do what you have to do and just get home in one piece. It is kinda f**ked up that black males get stereotyped, but I'm a black male and believe me, when I'm in certain areas at certain times I'm just as leary of a black male as anybody else might be. Sometimes it ain't stereotyping, it's just common sense. I think that's a lot different than the scenarios that Stacks and Drewn described.
It's not guilt - like you say, I have to do what I have to do. It's just shitty all around, right? I gotta worry about getting my ass home safely, which in turn means I have to look at everyone who crosses my path as a potential danger, including those who are not, but are reguarly deemed as such. I'm guess I'm saying that I'm aware of it. It's almost like I wanna say, "nothing about you, dude, but I'm crossing the street for my own peace of mind".
A very very good friend of mine is black. He's American and lived at the army base here for about a year. I took him in and was his family for the most part. He ate with my family on holidays etc... Real tight.
Anyway, a few times he would say "Ah T*****i's my n***a!" or something similar. I would always say in return, that I wasn't comfortable with that. "just call me man, dude, etc...", I would say. It wasn't that the word itself made me uncomfortable, I guess it was more a political/view kinda thing. I just didn't see (and still don't), the need to use it. It always reminds me of hate, racism, oppression & ignorance.
I'm totally digging this thread, damn good read so far.
Non-black people who told grafwritah to simmer down:[/b] I believe the reason racism continues on, especially in more liberal circles is becuase it is not confronted as head on as it should be. Folks think it rude or "not their place" to ask tough questions or even just curiousity questions to black people when it comes to race. This does nothing but allows the hate to go on without an exact understanding of why. Grafwritah is doing what most people should do, which is be brave enough to get the answers he needed to hear.
Grafwritah:[/b] Keep doing what your doing. As your time on this site goes on I've grown to have way more respect for you.
EdPowers:[/b] You still got the internet going nuts. keep the dialogue going
Soulman:[/b] You need to post more 80's hip-hop Phil photos. Them shits is nice.
Just to be clear, is this the kind of "father figure" voice you're talking about, Ed?
I walk home late after dark a lot and I don't care what the dude looks like - I do the same thing no matter what. If a dude is behind me I'll cross the street and slow down so I can see him. If he's hanging around and I'm walking towards him/them (there's a lot of dudes who just hang in my neighbourhood), I'll get as much distance between us and keep going. If he's walking in front, I'll stay at least two houses/buildings behind. Straight up, it does occur to me that Black dudes might think I'm doing it just because they're Black and it bugs me. I don't want to make anyone feel like that.
Missbassie, do not feel guilty at all for trying to be as safe as possible when you're walking home late after dark. Do what you have to do and just get home in one piece. It is kinda f**ked up that black males get stereotyped, but I'm a black male and believe me, when I'm in certain areas at certain times I'm just as leary of a black male as anybody else might be. Sometimes it ain't stereotyping, it's just common sense. I think that's a lot different than the scenarios that Stacks and Drewn described.
I go out of my way, at all times, with all people, to make sure they are comfortable and having a good time if it's a social situation. I get shook sometimes too, so I'm just as gulity as a random white lady, etc. I don't always assume it's race that has somebody closing the door to my apartment building behind them before I get up to it. The fact is we've had some serious incidents with people getting in and jacking people's stuff in the past couple years and I have to be on guard for that as well. It's just frustrating because there's nothing I can do about it.
Well, except be with another white person and then you get a free pass.
A very very good friend of mine is black. He's American and lived at the army base here for about a year. I took him in and was his family for the most part. He ate with my family on holidays etc... Real tight.
Anyway, a few times he would say "Ah T*****i's my n***a!" or something similar. I would always say in return, that I wasn't comfortable with that. "just call me man, dude, etc...", I would say. It wasn't that the word itself made me uncomfortable, I guess it was more a political/view kinda thing. I just didn't see (and still don't), the need to use it. It always reminds me of hate, racism, oppression & ignorance.
He wasn't offended by my stance, thankfully.
Would you be? And if so why?
That's a very good question. I wouldn't be offended at all by your stance. A lot of black people don't like to hear other blacks refer to themselves as "niggaz" either. I wasn't down with that for a long time myself and still have mixed feelings about it, but now I do use it in a semi-sarcastic way at times, as I have in this thread. I guess for me these days it's more about context and also I do think that using it and not giving a f**k about it can take a lot of the power out of it. Growing up in Connecticut as a kid I would sometimes get into it with a white kid and he might spit out "nigger" and I'd fire back "honky", and the kid would just laugh and say, "go ahead, call me honky all you want to... honky, honky, honky." Then he'd come back with "nigger" again and I'd be ready to whup his ass! So even for little kids in the schoolyard it's clear that it's really about the power behind the word more than it's about the word itself. Does that make any sense? O-Dub, drop some knowledge, dun... you can probably articulate it way better than me.
I guess for me these days it's more about context and also I do think that using it and not giving a f**k about it can take a lot of the power out of it.
Dude is bugging out on here but he calls me that on regular. I do'nt get offended cause it's his perogative but I can see how it could make someone feel uncomfortable.
This thread got me thinking about the Race classes I took when I was at Temple. Temple is a really diverse school, but is almost entirely self segregated and by that I mean. If you go to any of the dining halls or watch the groups that hang out on campus it is almost always black students in one group, Indian Students in another group, and so on. It is a requirement for undergrads to take a race class at Temple and the one I took was pretty interesting.
One article I wrote a paper on followed kids going from middle school to high school. In almost all of the cases while in middle school the kids had a mixed group of friends and didnt really see race as a factor but only a year later when in high school most of the same kids were only hanging out with kids of the same race. The article didnt try and answer why this happened, but when they asked the kids most of them said they just didnt have anything in common with there old friends anymore. I don't have any answers I just thought it was something interesting that might add to the discussion.
Also read a book about race perception in America and how it was negatively affected by the Cosby show, but dont get me started on that one.
This thread got me thinking about the Race classes I took when I was at Temple. Temple is a really diverse school, but is almost entirely self segregated and by that I mean. If you go to any of the dining halls or watch the groups that hang out on campus it is almost always black students in one group, Indian Students in another group, and so on. It is a requirement for undergrads to take a race class at Temple and the one I took was pretty interesting.
Did you have any interactions with the old dude who teaches (or taught- I don't even know if he's still alive) etymology, Mr. Burton?
One article I wrote a paper on followed kids going from middle school to high school. In almost all of the cases while in middle school the kids had a mixed group of friends and didnt really see race as a factor but only a year later when in high school most of the same kids were only hanging out with kids of the same race. The article didnt try and answer why this happened, but when they asked the kids most of them said they just didnt have anything in common with there old friends anymore. I don't have any answers I just thought it was something interesting that might add to the discussion. This is EXACTLY how it was for me growing up... friends of all races throughout elementary and middle school, suddenly everybody "stuck to their own kind" when we went to high school, me included. I have no idea why this happened, but it happened.
here's a curious whiteman question to the black folks:
what do you think when you hear latin dudes using the N-word?
I think it's just WEIRD. From what I understand, because of their minority status they feel they can use that word as blacks do (out of solidarity), but I'd sooner they didn't.
Once I was walking down the street when a father and his two sons (all Latin) crossed my path from the left. The two kids looked to be between 10-12 years old. They were clowning with each other, as kids will do. Kid #1 called kid #2 a nigger, and not a second too late their father (who saw me coming) was all like: "SHHHHH!" It wasn't a shush as in "say it when the black guy isn't around," it was more like: "don't say it at all."
here's a curious whiteman question to the black folks:
what do you think when you hear latin dudes using the N-word?
Theres this dude that kicks it with some of peoples, he is mexican but our common friends are blck. He's been known to spit the word "nigga" out quite a bit and at one point one of the homies told him stright up "You gettina little too comfortable with that word" the thing is he didn't seem to care.
One day I brought my (black) girlfriend over to my friends house and the mexican dude was there and sure enough he said hello to her with the poetic greeting of "whats up nigga".
As the boyfriend I had to hear her rant about that for the rest of the night (and the next day).
One day I brought my (black) girlfriend over to my friends house and the mexican dude was there and sure enough he said hello to her with the poetic greeting of "whats up nigga".
As the boyfriend I had to hear her rant about that for the rest of the night (and the next day).
Man, "friends that you're afraid to bring your girl around" : That's a whole 'nother thread! Let's start that up though one of these days; it's a doozy.
I think it's just WEIRD. From what I understand, because of their minority status they feel they can use that word as blacks do (out of solidarity), but I'd sooner they didn't.
12 yrs. old/ mid 1980's: I remember being the only non-Black kid kid at this kid Frankie's birthday party. His mom Joyce had asked my mom to make the birthday cake so we were also invited. The whole time I'm hearing these kids calling each other nigga. Nigga nigga nigga the whole time. So I already stand out from the crowd and I know Frankie but just cuz him mom and my mom are friends. How can I fit in and be part of the group? I'm thinking maybe I should say nigga too! Then I thought Frankie is a big dude for being 10 yrs. old. I didn't say it...heh!
Flash forward 10 yrs. 22yrs. old, involved in my local hip-hop scene, have a crew etc.
The black homies start greeting me with "what's up nigga?" Internal thought process-"hmm. I guess I'm down now. Hmmm...I don't wanna say it though." I didn't say it in the beginning. After a while though you keep being called a nigga despite being mexican and you hear nigga thrown around in the crew so often that you start to say it too. Of course that's with my crew only. I don't throw that word around with strangers and even don't use it so much anymore cuz it's pretty lame coming anyway.
I know I'm down and don't need to say nigga to validate my downess.
Basically- Don't say it unless you have a pass or invitation to say it. And don't assume you that the pass is all-access. Don't say it to show how down you are either.
Ok... pardon me if someone brought this up, I was too lazy to read everything...
Anyone saee the article in the paper recently about a university study that showed that racists seem to over compensate by being very friendly, and very pc, to hide their true thoughts, and that black people actually preferred talking to and hanging with racially ignorant, and non-pc whites (who weren't really racist, but may have sounded like it), than to the racists who were trying to cover their intentions...
Anyhow, it was interesting, I'll try to find the article.
I'm totally digging this thread, damn good read so far.
Non-black people who told grafwritah to simmer down:[/b] I believe the reason racism continues on, especially in more liberal circles is becuase it is not confronted as head on as it should be. Folks think it rude or "not their place" to ask tough questions or even just curiousity questions to black people when it comes to race. This does nothing but allows the hate to go on without an exact understanding of why. Grafwritah is doing what most people should do, which is be brave enough to get the answers he needed to hear.
Grafwritah:[/b] Keep doing what your doing. As your time on this site goes on I've grown to have way more respect for you.
EdPowers:[/b] You still got the internet going nuts. keep the dialogue going
Soulman:[/b] You need to post more 80's hip-hop Phil photos. Them shits is nice.
Just to be clear, is this the kind of "father figure" voice you're talking about, Ed?
I'm just talking in a normal tone. I don't have anything to be embarassed about. I shared my take, other people have different views on it, that's cool. I don't see how it could hurt.
I can see how it could be construed that Guzzo has a "father figure" voice going on, but he seems to really just be encouraging open dialogue. Most posts of this nature break down into arguing. What's wrong with being supportive of productive conversation?
Comments
Ha, the Internet is a wonderful thing, isn't it???
Ironically, this post runs the same day that Motown 67 reviews a Pickwick elpee by Clara Ward (black gospel singer) in the "Record Reviews" thread!
It's cool, mang - here in cyberspace, who knows who anybody is???
i smell a record cover here...
nice can on the lady in white, may i say...
Non-black people who told grafwritah to simmer down:[/b] I believe the reason racism continues on, especially in more liberal circles is becuase it is not confronted as head on as it should be. Folks think it rude or "not their place" to ask tough questions or even just curiousity questions to black people when it comes to race. This does nothing but allows the hate to go on without an exact understanding of why. Grafwritah is doing what most people should do, which is be brave enough to get the answers he needed to hear.
Grafwritah:[/b] Keep doing what your doing. As your time on this site goes on I've grown to have way more respect for you.
EdPowers:[/b] You still got the internet going nuts. keep the dialogue going
Soulman:[/b] You need to post more 80's hip-hop Phil photos. Them shits is nice.
HAHAHAH...Oh shit
I was in the grocery store last week in the personal care section and picked up a can of this, opened it, sniffed that shit it and it took me WAAAAY back to 7th grade every day when I'd break out my greasy brush and balled up doo rag from the bathroom drawer!
That was my shit!
I still used it up until several years ago
I just didn't want to see this shit melt down into the usual race threads.
saul good man, no personal attacks on here, just happy to see that an honest racial dialogue happened on this site.
I walk home late after dark a lot and I don't care what the dude looks like - I do the same thing no matter what. If a dude is behind me I'll cross the street and slow down so I can see him. If he's hanging around and I'm walking towards him/them (there's a lot of dudes who just hang in my neighbourhood), I'll get as much distance between us and keep going. If he's walking in front, I'll stay at least two houses/buildings behind. Straight up, it does occur to me that Black dudes might think I'm doing it just because they're Black and it bugs me. I don't want to make anyone feel like that.
Missbassie, do not feel guilty at all for trying to be as safe as possible when you're walking home late after dark. Do what you have to do and just get home in one piece. It is kinda f**ked up that black males get stereotyped, but I'm a black male and believe me, when I'm in certain areas at certain times I'm just as leary of a black male as anybody else might be. Sometimes it ain't stereotyping, it's just common sense. I think that's a lot different than the scenarios that Stacks and Drewn described.
It's not guilt - like you say, I have to do what I have to do. It's just shitty all around, right? I gotta worry about getting my ass home safely, which in turn means I have to look at everyone who crosses my path as a potential danger, including those who are not, but are reguarly deemed as such. I'm guess I'm saying that I'm aware of it. It's almost like I wanna say, "nothing about you, dude, but I'm crossing the street for my own peace of mind".
A very very good friend of mine is black. He's American and lived at the army base here for about a year. I took him in and was his family for the most part. He ate with my family on holidays etc... Real tight.
Anyway, a few times he would say "Ah T*****i's my n***a!" or something similar. I would always say in return, that I wasn't comfortable with that. "just call me man, dude, etc...", I would say. It wasn't that the word itself made me uncomfortable, I guess it was more a political/view kinda thing. I just didn't see (and still don't), the need to use it. It always reminds me of hate, racism, oppression & ignorance.
He wasn't offended by my stance, thankfully.
Would you be? And if so why?
Just to be clear, is this the kind of "father figure" voice you're talking about, Ed?
I go out of my way, at all times, with all people, to make sure they are comfortable and having a good time if it's a social situation. I get shook sometimes too, so I'm just as gulity as a random white lady, etc. I don't always assume it's race that has somebody closing the door to my apartment building behind them before I get up to it. The fact is we've had some serious incidents with people getting in and jacking people's stuff in the past couple years and I have to be on guard for that as well. It's just frustrating because there's nothing I can do about it.
Well, except be with another white person and then you get a free pass.
That's a whole different story though.
No, if anything he should be grateful that you respected yourself enough to clear up something that you felt strong about.
That's a very good question. I wouldn't be offended at all by your stance. A lot of black people don't like to hear other blacks refer to themselves as "niggaz" either. I wasn't down with that for a long time myself and still have mixed feelings about it, but now I do use it in a semi-sarcastic way at times, as I have in this thread. I guess for me these days it's more about context and also I do think that using it and not giving a f**k about it can take a lot of the power out of it. Growing up in Connecticut as a kid I would sometimes get into it with a white kid and he might spit out "nigger" and I'd fire back "honky", and the kid would just laugh and say, "go ahead, call me honky all you want to... honky, honky, honky." Then he'd come back with "nigger" again and I'd be ready to whup his ass! So even for little kids in the schoolyard it's clear that it's really about the power behind the word more than it's about the word itself. Does that make any sense? O-Dub, drop some knowledge, dun... you can probably articulate it way better than me.
http://s21.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1EP6LPOF6DJAM2PTA830116EL7
I got this message yesterday
Dude is bugging out on here but he calls me that on regular.
I do'nt get offended cause it's his perogative but I can see how it could make someone feel uncomfortable.
This thread got me thinking about the Race classes I took when I was at Temple. Temple is a really diverse school, but is almost entirely self segregated and by that I mean. If you go to any of the dining halls or watch the groups that hang out on campus it is almost always black students in one group, Indian Students in another group, and so on. It is a requirement for undergrads to take a race class at Temple and the one I took was pretty interesting.
One article I wrote a paper on followed kids going from middle school to high school. In almost all of the cases while in middle school the kids had a mixed group of friends and didnt really see race as a factor but only a year later when in high school most of the same kids were only hanging out with kids of the same race. The article didnt try and answer why this happened, but when they asked the kids most of them said they just didnt have anything in common with there old friends anymore. I don't have any answers I just thought it was something interesting that might add to the discussion.
Also read a book about race perception in America and how it was negatively affected by the Cosby show, but dont get me started on that one.
Did you have any interactions with the old dude who teaches (or taught- I don't even know if he's still alive) etymology, Mr. Burton?
One article I wrote a paper on followed kids going from middle school to high school. In almost all of the cases while in middle school the kids had a mixed group of friends and didnt really see race as a factor but only a year later when in high school most of the same kids were only hanging out with kids of the same race. The article didnt try and answer why this happened, but when they asked the kids most of them said they just didnt have anything in common with there old friends anymore. I don't have any answers I just thought it was something interesting that might add to the discussion.
This is EXACTLY how it was for me growing up... friends of all races throughout elementary and middle school, suddenly everybody "stuck to their own kind" when we went to high school, me included. I have no idea why this happened, but it happened.
what do you think when you hear latin dudes using the N-word?
I think it's just WEIRD. From what I understand, because of their minority status they feel they can use that word as blacks do (out of solidarity), but I'd sooner they didn't.
Once I was walking down the street when a father and his two sons (all Latin) crossed my path from the left. The two kids looked to be between 10-12 years old. They were clowning with each other, as kids will do. Kid #1 called kid #2 a nigger, and not a second too late their father (who saw me coming) was all like: "SHHHHH!" It wasn't a shush as in "say it when the black guy isn't around," it was more like: "don't say it at all."
Theres this dude that kicks it with some of peoples, he is mexican but our common friends are blck. He's been known to spit the word "nigga" out quite a bit and at one point one of the homies told him stright up "You gettina little too comfortable with that word" the thing is he didn't seem to care.
One day I brought my (black) girlfriend over to my friends house and the mexican dude was there and sure enough he said hello to her with the poetic greeting of "whats up nigga".
As the boyfriend I had to hear her rant about that for the rest of the night (and the next day).
Man, "friends that you're afraid to bring your girl around" : That's a whole 'nother thread! Let's start that up though one of these days; it's a doozy.
12 yrs. old/ mid 1980's:
I remember being the only non-Black kid kid at this kid Frankie's birthday party. His mom Joyce had asked my mom to make the birthday cake so we were also invited. The whole time I'm hearing these kids calling each other nigga. Nigga nigga nigga the whole time. So I already stand out from the crowd and I know Frankie but just cuz him mom and my mom are friends. How can I fit in and be part of the group? I'm thinking maybe I should say nigga too! Then I thought Frankie is a big dude for being 10 yrs. old. I didn't say it...heh!
Flash forward 10 yrs. 22yrs. old, involved in my local hip-hop scene, have a crew etc.
The black homies start greeting me with "what's up nigga?" Internal thought process-"hmm. I guess I'm down now. Hmmm...I don't wanna say it though." I didn't say it in the beginning. After a while though you keep being called a nigga despite being mexican and you hear nigga thrown around in the crew so often that you start to say it too. Of course that's with my crew only. I don't throw that word around with strangers and even don't use it so much anymore cuz it's pretty lame coming anyway.
I know I'm down and don't need to say nigga to validate my downess.
Basically- Don't say it unless you have a pass or invitation to say it. And don't assume you that the pass is all-access. Don't say it to show how down you are either.
"You're a cool ass dude guzzo, but you gotta admit the jews basically run all of hollywood."
LOL. I dated a girl once who acted like that all the time. Fuck her.
- spidey
Damn!!! that looks like an excellent book...PLEASE!!! get started...i would love to hear your/the books views on the subject
Anyone saee the article in the paper recently about a university study that showed that racists seem to over compensate by being very friendly, and very pc, to hide their true thoughts, and that black people actually preferred talking to and hanging with racially ignorant, and non-pc whites (who weren't really racist, but may have sounded like it), than to the racists who were trying to cover their intentions...
Anyhow, it was interesting, I'll try to find the article.
Peace...
FNM
I'm just talking in a normal tone. I don't have anything to be embarassed about. I shared my take, other people have different views on it, that's cool. I don't see how it could hurt.
I can see how it could be construed that Guzzo has a "father figure" voice going on, but he seems to really just be encouraging open dialogue. Most posts of this nature break down into arguing. What's wrong with being supportive of productive conversation?