damn drew. that makes me think of the loosely related flip side of random white people taking me into confidence in elevators, stores, whereever and popping off with off the wall racist shit, veiled and blatant. as a kid i didnt know how to react. then i started confronting people and getting in arguments. then i tried just ignoring people and just shaking my head in digust. but i dont know if its just me, but all the time i get people dropping comments to me like they know me from klan lodge. does not restore my faith in humanity and the state of race relations in america. i had this one job one summer where i had to do surveys of rental housing all over philly, especially the northeast. id have to pretend that i wanted to rent a spot. every other person showing me a place would explain the demographic state of the neighborhood. "its a good neighborhood" me:"unhuh" them: "not a lot of nig**rs". flat out. not even stopping to think of how id react to that shit. i heard that garbage all sumer long. i started writing it on the survey reports: "racist mgmnt"
"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." - Steve Biko
"When people like me, they tell me it is in spite of my colour. When they dislike me, they point out that it is not because of my colour." - Franz Fanon
I hear what you're pointing out here - your awareness of racism has forced you to "perform" a certain kind of whiteness in order to avoid being read as "too black."
Just to go tangential for a moment - I was talking with a friend today about why all these mainstream magazines like Time and Newsweek are jocking Kanye and he broke it down simply, "he's a non-threatening, middle class black guy," to which I replied back, "so, basically, he's like the new Will Smith but with better beats."
Then I read the Time article and straight up, it really does come down to Kanye being seen as a little bit fey which makes him a comfortable black figure for non-black people. You can practically spot the article's subtext from a mile away: real gangstas don't wear pink Polo.
This is a valuable thread--thanks for starting it, Phill.
Absolutely.
I wasn't going to post at first, but I wanted to say some of you are giving an insight into what it's like to be Black in America that's rarely shared.
The irony is, some white folks try to micro-manage their actions around Black folks for fear of what the other person is thinking so it ends up coming off all convoluted. Even though my closest friends who I've known for more than half my life, been around their families for years, been in all kinds of situations with, are Black, I still find myself sometimes feeling this way.
Even something as simple as saying "hi" to someone can make you think "damn she's probably looking at me like "yeah, say 'hi' to make me feel 'comfortable'" or "sure acknowledge me so you look 'down with Black folks'" etc etc. When it was really just "hi". So many double thoughts it can make a person crazy.
So people end up walking on egg shells for fear of being misunderstood and I'm sure that can sometimes make people look like they're uncomfortable for the wrong reasons.
Hopefully if people have more discussions about what's really going on, maybe a generation or two down the line things can actually start to change.
not at all holmes...I feel the same way when folk try an make 'mexican' jokes around me....I guess they're the common bond between all the other races or some shit. I don't go for that shit.
Yes!!! I'm the first Jew to chime in on this thread.
Now y'all may be thinking what does this whiteboy have to say about peoples acting diffrently around him? Well bare in mind I did have that little swastika on the employee bathroom incident at my last job, not to mention all that shit talk that they thought it was cool to say arond me cause "I'm not one of those jews"
Truth be told it goes everywhere with damn near everything in America, at least from what I've seen. I love it when white folks, or black folks sit you down and talk some racist shit about your peoples cause you're one of them but...you know...your one of the cool ones"
Anyways I work in a field that it seems is mostly made up of Gays and Jews and like most jobs the people in the lower postiions complain about those higher up, sometimes that talk turns homophobic or anti-semetic and contrary to what y'all may think by seeing my actions & reactions here, I just let it slide. I mean what else am I going to do? The revolution may come but it ain't starting on the 4th floor of E! Entertainment.
Oh and Day, this is real speak
Hopefully if people have more discussions about what's really going on, maybe a generation or two down the line things can actually start to change.
without ever having met your kids I can already tell they've been raised right
Damn,it seriously bums me out that alot of my favorite strutters have to deal with such bullshit on the regular. You'd think that people would wake up already, it's 2005 for godssake. None the less its good to talk bout such things.
no but it's a much more accepting environment.....due to our open immigration policies.
Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. There is an urban legend among Torontonians that UNESCO has proclaimed the city as the world's most multicultural city, but ranking or proclaiming cities as the most multicultural is not a practice that UNESCO has ever undertaken. One in three or about 36% of the population is comprised of visible minorities, meaning that 63% of the population is of European origin, chiefly of British, Irish, French, Italian, and Portuguese descent. Chinese and East Indians are each about 10% of the population. Almost half of all Black Canadians live in Toronto, and they constitute around 8.5% of the population. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken here, and over one third of Toronto residents speak a language other than English at home.
no but it's a much more accepting environment.....due to our open immigration policies.
Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. There is an urban legend among Torontonians that UNESCO has proclaimed the city as the world's most multicultural city, but ranking or proclaiming cities as the most multicultural is not a practice that UNESCO has ever undertaken. One in three or about 36% of the population is comprised of visible minorities, meaning that 63% of the population is of European origin, chiefly of British, Irish, French, Italian, and Portuguese descent. Chinese and East Indians are each about 10% of the population. Almost half of all Black Canadians live in Toronto, and they constitute around 8.5% of the population. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken here, and over one third of Toronto residents speak a language other than English at home.
not at all holmes...I feel the same way when folk try an make 'mexican' jokes around me....I guess they're the common bond between all the other races or some shit. I don't go for that shit.
so how do you react?
and guzzo, i man i-talian jew so fall back into 2nd in line
on the original post, i think a lot of people in general have to wear different attitudes and guises in different situations. obviously a lot more precarious for black males (as well as females)in amerika due to possible consequences (law enforcement related for instance or modern day emmit till type shit related). but i hide my long hair and let it out on a daily basis, depending on the situation. chanege my language around a lot of people too. especially women. i work in the 2nd most fucked up high school in philly as well as an ivy league university, in the same day. then my neighborhood goes from broke to affluent in a heaartbeat. i gotta keep up appearances with my parents neighbors whove known me since my youth just like i gotta keep up different appearances a block away with strangers on a basketball court that i might end up getting in a fight with. you gotta be a chameleon in this world. change with the scenery. but its all different sides of me.
phil, stacks, theres plenty of black dudes who dont have the ability or desire or whatever to change up their groove and they are "hood" in all situations. they end up freaking a lot of people out, not keeping a lot of jobs and hanging with white women who seek out that kind of thing. im not saying thats a good or bad thing either. but it definitely limits their options.
too black too strong. i scare airport security cus im black but look kinda arabic ive been told. plus i fly with a very bombish looking silver suitcase for my cdj.i definitely go thru airports trying to look and act nonthreating as possible.but shit, niggas be lookin at that case shook too. fuckit, i icegrill all of them.cus smilin, that shit really fucks with them.
This is a valuable thread--thanks for starting it, Phill.
Absolutely.
I wasn't going to post at first, but I wanted to say some of you are giving an insight into what it's like to be Black in America that's rarely shared.
The irony is, some white folks try to micro-manage their actions around Black folks for fear of what the other person is thinking so it ends up coming off all convoluted. Even though my closest friends who I've known for more than half my life, been around their families for years, been in all kinds of situations with, are Black, I still find myself sometimes feeling this way.
Even something as simple as saying "hi" to someone can make you think "damn she's probably looking at me like "yeah, say 'hi' to make me feel 'comfortable'" or "sure acknowledge me so you look 'down with Black folks'" etc etc. When it was really just "hi". So many double thoughts it can make a person crazy. So people end up walking on egg shells for fear of being misunderstood and I'm sure that can sometimes make people look like they're uncomfortable for the wrong reasons.
Hopefully if people have more discussions about what's really going on, maybe a generation or two down the line things can actually start to change.
SO TRUE
I think a lot of it is caused by the fact we're still a society that encourages racism in a lot of ways and are still young at not practicing it. I think people have to acknowledge that they are racist in a lot of ways simply due to the country and time we are growing up and living in. I just read an article about race in Scientific American. They showed white dudes and black dudes pictures of people and when it was the "opposite" race, almost everyone got this neural spike. But if the subject had gone out/dated a member of the other race, they didnt get that spike in their frontal lobe that told em to be weary. Its kind of a beautiful experiment cause it shows we can all be family and of the same tribe.
Then I read the Time article and straight up, it really does come down to Kanye being seen as a little bit fey which makes him a comfortable black figure for non-black people. You can practically spot the article's subtext from a mile away: real gangstas don't wear pink Polo.
I always look at this as an economics issue. If your average middle class mother had to choose their kid either being influenced by A.) gangsta rappers, B.) Hells Angels, or C.) Kanye West in pink polo, most would pick C. I think it all comes down to economics in many case.
no but it's a much more accepting environment.....due to our open immigration policies.
Toronto is one of the most multicultural cities in the world. There is an urban legend among Torontonians that UNESCO has proclaimed the city as the world's most multicultural city, but ranking or proclaiming cities as the most multicultural is not a practice that UNESCO has ever undertaken. One in three or about 36% of the population is comprised of visible minorities, meaning that 63% of the population is of European origin, chiefly of British, Irish, French, Italian, and Portuguese descent. Chinese and East Indians are each about 10% of the population. Almost half of all Black Canadians live in Toronto, and they constitute around 8.5% of the population. Over 100 languages and dialects are spoken here, and over one third of Toronto residents speak a language other than English at home.
nobody said it was free of racisim, just that it's a lot more tolerable than our American compatriots. If you do know of such a magical place, please kindly inform us. There's always a skeptic who likes to point out the negative. The positives never get shine.......
the natives have their fair share of problems that need to be solved (alcoholism, teenage suicide, etc), but it's not an issue that has been swept under the carpet. It is well known and the gov'nt are trying to help, media coverage has also been consistent.
and finally, that article pertains to toronto's multiculturalism.......not really related to natives.
Just to go tangential for a moment - I was talking with a friend today about why all these mainstream magazines like Time and Newsweek are jocking Kanye and he broke it down simply, "he's a non-threatening, middle class black guy," to which I replied back, "so, basically, he's like the new Will Smith but with better beats."
it has long been accepted by black people that every few years white america will pick 2 black musicians and 2 black actors (non threatening of course) to be our media representatives..Will"i always have a joke in me or a big ass grin on my face" Smith has moved on to represent the race in acting and his place has been taken by Kanye.....Will is joined in the acting field w/Mr Jamie "when i'm not crying in interviews..i'm shuckin'and jivin'" Foxx.....
not only do the representatives have to be non-threatening,they have to be a clown also......
it has long been accepted by black people that every few years white america will pick 2 black musicians and 2 black actors (non threatening of course) to be our media representatives..Will"i always have a joke in me or a big ass grin on my face" Smith has moved on to represent the race in acting and his place has been taken by Kanye.....Will is joined in the acting field w/Mr Jamie "when i'm not crying in interviews..i'm shuckin'and jivin'" Foxx.....
not only do the representatives have to be non-threatening,they have to be a clown also......
So how do you decide who the representatives are from people who are just black. I.E., back in the late 80s I used to see a lot of Mike Tyson, but he doesn't fit the bill. What gives?
and why are so many White and Asian people giving advice and encouragement in this thread ..some of it borderline offends me
Well, you're complaining how white people stereotype and fear black people. I'm white. I'm giving you my general perception as a professional white person.
You think my grandma fears a mob of black lawyers? Hell no.
I'm a big Mexican dude with a goatee and a long pony-tail and usually have a poker face. I have a college degree and speak proper English. Racist and ignorant people don't know what to think when they interact with me:
Ah shit another ese.
Oh, he's NOT a homie. He's not like THEM. Thank God!
He's so smart and polished and not like THEM. Cool enough where I can say nigger and talk shit about mexicans and "cockroaches" and know he's gonna know what I'm talking about. I would have dinner with him. [THINK AGAIN ASSHOLE!]
Why do you hang out with mayates holmes? You should kick it with the homies and bump this latin rap. [NO COMMENT]
"This guy can't be the manager. He sounded different on the phone."
"So your Spanish or Mexican? Do you have Indian in you?" Sigh, here we go again explaining how I'm the result of Europeans and Natives mixing through rape, pillage, war and YES, EVEN SOMETIMES LOVE. Yes it's fairly obvious I have Native blood in me. No I don't speak "Indian" nor do I know what tribe I'm from. Kinda hard to know that when records aren't kept or they only document the Euro lineage. And I'm not gonna be extra friendly when you tell me "my grandmother was Cherokee." GEESH... what white person's grandma WASN'T CHEROKEE OR APACHE!
The best shit is when educated whites try and play the condescending role in their tone and language. I know it burns them when I match their wits and speak fluidly with extra verbiage and expanded vocabulary. Yeah dumbass, I'm on that level so don't fuck with me. I can also drop cultural and elite references you didn't think I knew about. You are NOT gonna play me. I might even have you going home to play catch up and learn some shit. SHOCKER!
Shit is so fuck-ed up at times.
And the cycle continues... me and my biases/prejudices/assumptions.
So how do you decide who the representatives are from people who are just black. I.E., back in the late 80s I used to see a lot of Mike Tyson, but he doesn't fit the bill. What gives?
do you think if blacks had the opportunity to control the images,faces and voices heard,seen and read on television,radio and print it would be the people we see and hear the most???
the people i see the most on tv are not the people i want representing me...
Comments
prejudice=alive and well
-whitey out
Two things pop into mind:
"The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed." - Steve Biko
"When people like me, they tell me it is in spite of my colour. When they dislike me, they point out that it is not because of my colour." - Franz Fanon
I hear what you're pointing out here - your awareness of racism has forced you to "perform" a certain kind of whiteness in order to avoid being read as "too black."
Just to go tangential for a moment - I was talking with a friend today about why all these mainstream magazines like Time and Newsweek are jocking Kanye and he broke it down simply,
"he's a non-threatening, middle class black guy," to which I replied back, "so, basically, he's like the new Will Smith but with better beats."
Then I read the Time article and straight up, it really does come down to Kanye being seen as a little bit fey which makes him a comfortable black figure for non-black people. You can practically spot the article's subtext from a mile away: real gangstas don't wear pink Polo.
Absolutely.
I wasn't going to post at first, but I wanted to say some of you are giving an insight into what it's like to be Black in America that's rarely shared.
The irony is, some white folks try to micro-manage their actions around Black folks for fear of what the other person is thinking so it ends up coming off all convoluted. Even though my closest friends who I've known for more than half my life, been around their families for years, been in all kinds of situations with, are Black, I still find myself sometimes feeling this way.
Even something as simple as saying "hi" to someone can make you think "damn she's probably looking at me like "yeah, say 'hi' to make me feel 'comfortable'" or "sure acknowledge me so you look 'down with Black folks'" etc etc. When it was really just "hi". So many double thoughts it can make a person crazy.
So people end up walking on egg shells for fear of being misunderstood and I'm sure that can sometimes make people look like they're uncomfortable for the wrong reasons.
Hopefully if people have more discussions about what's really going on, maybe a generation or two down the line things can actually start to change.
not at all holmes...I feel the same way when folk try an make 'mexican' jokes around me....I guess they're the common bond between all the other races or some shit. I don't go for that shit.
Now y'all may be thinking what does this whiteboy have to say about peoples acting diffrently around him? Well bare in mind I did have that little swastika on the employee bathroom incident at my last job, not to mention all that shit talk that they thought it was cool to say arond me cause "I'm not one of those jews"
Truth be told it goes everywhere with damn near everything in America, at least from what I've seen. I love it when white folks, or black folks sit you down and talk some racist shit about your peoples cause you're one of them but...you know...your one of the cool ones"
Anyways I work in a field that it seems is mostly made up of Gays and Jews and like most jobs the people in the lower postiions complain about those higher up, sometimes that talk turns homophobic or anti-semetic and contrary to what y'all may think by seeing my actions & reactions here, I just let it slide. I mean what else am I going to do? The revolution may come but it ain't starting on the 4th floor of E! Entertainment.
Oh and Day, this is real speak
without ever having met your kids I can already tell they've been raised right
People thnk that time heals all wounds, not true, talking about it is the best way to set shit straight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto
so how do you react?
and guzzo, i man i-talian jew so fall back into 2nd in line
on the original post, i think a lot of people in general have to wear different attitudes and guises in different situations. obviously a lot more precarious for black males (as well as females)in amerika due to possible consequences (law enforcement related for instance or modern day emmit till type shit related). but i hide my long hair and let it out on a daily basis, depending on the situation. chanege my language around a lot of people too. especially women. i work in the 2nd most fucked up high school in philly as well as an ivy league university, in the same day. then my neighborhood goes from broke to affluent in a heaartbeat. i gotta keep up appearances with my parents neighbors whove known me since my youth just like i gotta keep up different appearances a block away with strangers on a basketball court that i might end up getting in a fight with. you gotta be a chameleon in this world. change with the scenery. but its all different sides of me.
phil, stacks, theres plenty of black dudes who dont have the ability or desire or whatever to change up their groove and they are "hood" in all situations. they end up freaking a lot of people out, not keeping a lot of jobs and hanging with white women who seek out that kind of thing. im not saying thats a good or bad thing either. but it definitely limits their options.
I think a lot of it is caused by the fact we're still a society that encourages racism in a lot of ways and are still young at not practicing it. I think people have to acknowledge that they are racist in a lot of ways simply due to the country and time we are growing up and living in. I just read an article about race in Scientific American. They showed white dudes and black dudes pictures of people and when it was the "opposite" race, almost everyone got this neural spike. But if the subject had gone out/dated a member of the other race, they didnt get that spike in their frontal lobe that told em to be weary. Its kind of a beautiful experiment cause it shows we can all be family and of the same tribe.
I always look at this as an economics issue. If your average middle class mother had to choose their kid either being influenced by A.) gangsta rappers, B.) Hells Angels, or C.) Kanye West in pink polo, most would pick C. I think it all comes down to economics in many case.
nobody said it was free of racisim, just that it's a lot more tolerable than our American compatriots. If you do know of such a magical place, please kindly inform us. There's always a skeptic who likes to point out the negative. The positives never get shine.......
the natives have their fair share of problems that need to be solved (alcoholism, teenage suicide, etc), but it's not an issue that has been swept under the carpet. It is well known and the gov'nt are trying to help, media coverage has also been consistent.
and finally, that article pertains to toronto's multiculturalism.......not really related to natives.
it has long been accepted by black people that every few years white america will pick 2 black musicians and 2 black actors (non threatening of course) to be our media representatives..Will"i always have a joke in me or a big ass grin on my face" Smith has moved on to represent the race in acting and his place has been taken by Kanye.....Will is joined in the acting field w/Mr Jamie "when i'm not crying in interviews..i'm shuckin'and jivin'" Foxx.....
not only do the representatives have to be non-threatening,they have to be a clown also......
So how do you decide who the representatives are from people who are just black. I.E., back in the late 80s I used to see a lot of Mike Tyson, but he doesn't fit the bill. What gives?
Well, you're complaining how white people stereotype and fear black people. I'm white. I'm giving you my general perception as a professional white person.
You think my grandma fears a mob of black lawyers? Hell no.
Ah shit another ese.
Oh, he's NOT a homie. He's not like THEM. Thank God!
He's so smart and polished and not like THEM. Cool enough where I can say nigger and talk shit about mexicans and "cockroaches" and know he's gonna know what I'm talking about. I would have dinner with him. [THINK AGAIN ASSHOLE!]
Why do you hang out with mayates holmes? You should kick it with the homies and bump this latin rap. [NO COMMENT]
"This guy can't be the manager. He sounded different on the phone."
"So your Spanish or Mexican? Do you have Indian in you?"
Sigh, here we go again explaining how I'm the result of Europeans and Natives mixing through rape, pillage, war and YES, EVEN SOMETIMES LOVE. Yes it's fairly obvious I have Native blood in me. No I don't speak "Indian" nor do I know what tribe I'm from. Kinda hard to know that when records aren't kept or they only document the Euro lineage. And I'm not gonna be extra friendly when you tell me "my grandmother was Cherokee." GEESH... what white person's grandma WASN'T CHEROKEE OR APACHE!
The best shit is when educated whites try and play the condescending role in their tone and language. I know it burns them when I match their wits and speak fluidly with extra verbiage and expanded vocabulary. Yeah dumbass, I'm on that level so don't fuck with me. I can also drop cultural and elite references you didn't think I knew about. You are NOT gonna play me. I might even have you going home to play catch up and learn some shit. SHOCKER!
Shit is so fuck-ed up at times.
And the cycle continues... me and my biases/prejudices/assumptions.
do you think if blacks had the opportunity to control the images,faces and voices heard,seen and read on television,radio and print it would be the people we see and hear the most???
the people i see the most on tv are not the people i want representing me...
WHEN DID I SAY THAT?????? WHEN DID I[/b] ..J*r*** say that?????
Having dealt with "the public" in a number of jobs, I can tell you people say the stupidest things about other people regardless of what race you are.