HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I just don't see how trust fund can automatically be gleaned from a mere crowd shot. But fuck it, when I do play along like that I clearly see unicorns.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
And everyone knows that unicorns should be enchanting and not protesting. Bad unicorns!
I absolutely support their right and the basic intent of their protest but when you come off like this it does nothing to further your cause and just further polarizes the issue. Dudes need to know what they're protesting against and understand the underlying issues. That and don't harass working mufuckaz on their way to work.
So somehow they've further "polarized" the issue of the uber-rich 1% against the 99% rest of us?
I mean, even I thought about how some of those armpits must smell and it makes me want to forget how Bush's family made its money cooperating with the Nazi's.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong but that is how shit is perceived. Without a clear and concise effort they'll get nothing done and just alienate themselves even from the "99% of us." Like I said, not saying it's right or wrong but when someone's working their asses off and either doesn't have the time or money to get to a protest like this and then sees this sloppy shit, it just doesn't come off well.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
You are being mad petty, dude. And oh no, they've disrupted someone's next-to-worthless workday for an hour...the horror!
I'm not being petty. I'm saying if dudes want to get shit done and actually have an impact, do it right.
And dude, turning working class against working class is exactly what is happening in some shit like this. Dudes may do drone work for a bank or whatever but they're in the same situation that the protesters are in.
Traveling carnival of trust fund anarchists, unemployed / unemployable hipsters and part-time Starbucks / Kinkos workers of the world united to stick it to the man, man.
All I was doing was describing the people there and what they were, in their minds, doing.
See the below article written by someone who supports the protests....he had basically the same description.
And I don't think that characterization is "wack".
The claims that there is a lack of mainstream coverage doesn???t seem to hold water, and could simply be a ploy to encourage even more coverage. The protests have been covered by Reuters, The New York Times, and major networks. Anonymous and Ad Busters are major promoters and loose organizers of the protests but the movement doesn???t appear to be born directly from the groups.
Are they a mob of over-privileged, unemployed trustafarians? Many of them likely are. Does it matter? Dismiss them if you will, they???re motivated and mobilized. An apathetic population asked to foot the bill for the fallout from credit default swaps is exactly what the 1% ordered. The last few years the country has been told to fear an economic collapse if the masses fail to fork over what amounts to corporate welfare, and more recently, that more jobs will be lost if we close tax loopholes. Many claim that these protesters are anti-capitalist, but most are simply disillusioned by a form of capitalism they suggest is so far out of whack that the opportunity for bootstrap pulling is nearly non-existent. They propose that the current environment unapologetically favors the richest of the rich.
All you were doing was describing the people there and what they were, in their minds, doing?
How do you know they were anarchists?
Nothing in your proof "article written by someone who supports the protests" says they were anarchists.
Traveling carnival?
Nothing in your proof "article written by someone who supports the protests" says that.
Unemployable?
Hipsters?
Starbucks?
Kinkos?
Sticking it to the man?
Zero, zip, zilch.
I am glad that you have admitted "Tea Party members are ignorant, racist white people who are afraid of change and diversity".
I'm not being petty. I'm saying if dudes want to get shit done and actually have an impact, do it right.
And dude, turning working class against working class is exactly what is happening in some shit like this. Dudes may do drone work for a bank or whatever but they're in the same situation that the protesters are in.
I'd be interested to hear how to "do it right" and "have an impact" but that probably falls under "Solving the World's Problems" and you don't post in those threads. :shame_on_you:
I'm not being petty. I'm saying if dudes want to get shit done and actually have an impact, do it right.
And dude, turning working class against working class is exactly what is happening in some shit like this. Dudes may do drone work for a bank or whatever but they're in the same situation that the protesters are in.
I'd be interested to hear how to "do it right" and "have an impact" but that probably falls under "Solving the World's Problems" and you don't post in those threads. :shame_on_you:
I'm pretty sure I listed those things earlier in this thread but if all you want to do is come in and talk shit to go right ahead.
I'm not being petty. I'm saying if dudes want to get shit done and actually have an impact, do it right.
And dude, turning working class against working class is exactly what is happening in some shit like this. Dudes may do drone work for a bank or whatever but they're in the same situation that the protesters are in.
I'd be interested to hear how to "do it right" and "have an impact" but that probably falls under "Solving the World's Problems" and you don't post in those threads. :shame_on_you:
I'm pretty sure I listed those things earlier in this thread but if all you want to do is come in and talk shit to go right ahead.
Just re-read the whole thread. Couldn't find your suggestions. Was it the part where you say they should protest DC and not Wall Street? cuz I agree with that part
[All you were doing was describing the people there and what they were, in their minds, doing?
How do you know they were anarchists?
Nothing in your proof "article written by someone who supports the protests" says they were anarchists.
Traveling carnival?
Nothing in your proof "article written by someone who supports the protests" says that.
Unemployable?
Hipsters?
Starbucks?
Kinkos?
Sticking it to the man?
Zero, zip, zilch.
I am glad that you have admitted Tea Party members are ignorant, racist white people who are afraid of change and diversity.
I'm not being petty. I'm saying if dudes want to get shit done and actually have an impact, do it right.
And dude, turning working class against working class is exactly what is happening in some shit like this. Dudes may do drone work for a bank or whatever but they're in the same situation that the protesters are in.
I'd be interested to hear how to "do it right" and "have an impact" but that probably falls under "Solving the World's Problems" and you don't post in those threads. :shame_on_you:
I'm pretty sure I listed those things earlier in this thread but if all you want to do is come in and talk shit to go right ahead.
Just re-read the whole thread. Couldn't find your suggestions. Was it the part where you say they should protest DC and not Wall Street? cuz I agree with that part
Traveling carnival of trust fund anarchists, unemployed / unemployable hipsters and part-time Starbucks / Kinkos workers of the world united to stick it to the man, man.
Better than the usual rah rah rah support for "rich" people fucking over the poor and middle class. Maybe if it was shown that government would hold corporations and wall st. to better accountability...
So you're saying these people should be protesting in DC and not Wall Street then, right?
Both if they want. It's America correct?
I would much rather support whoever wants to protest their cause, than judge them by what they look like or what they may or may not do for a living...
I'm sure this description above is correct and not women corralled and then maced in the face.
The point being that there are people protesting on a legitimate issue. I'm not sure what you may be looking for to give people a legitimate reason to hit the streets? Total collapse of the market?
I would much rather support whoever wants to protest their cause, than judge them by what they look like or what they may or may not do for a living...
I don't think I ever commented on appearance.
The point being that there are people protesting on a legitimate issue. I'm not sure what you may be looking for to give people a legitimate reason to hit the streets? Total collapse of the market?
Corporations have no obligations towards anyone besides their shareholders. Politicians have an obligation to and should be held accountable by their constituent base.
Let's say I'm a small business owner. If I catch someone I don't know stealing and tell them STOP STEALING BRO, they're more than likely going to tell me to fuck off; especially if they know they won't get caught or even penalized if they do get caught. Instead I might find it more productive to go to police or local legislature and see why thefts are going undetected or why no one is being penalized for theft.
Effectiveness is subjective no? Depending on how many people people protest I'm guessing...
But I'm betting it's more effective than sending an email to your congressperson.
I would much rather support whoever wants to protest their cause, than judge them by what they look like or what they may or may not do for a living...
I don't think I ever commented on appearance.
That part wasn't directed at you, but to my original comment and Rich's post.
The point being that there are people protesting on a legitimate issue. I'm not sure what you may be looking for to give people a legitimate reason to hit the streets? Total collapse of the market?
Corporations have no obligations towards anyone besides their shareholders. Politicians have an obligation to and should be held accountable by their constituent base.
Agreed. And people should protest when their government isn't doing it's job.
Let's say I'm a small business owner. If I catch someone I don't know stealing and tell them STOP STEALING BRO, they're more than likely going to tell me to fuck off; especially if they know they won't get caught or even penalized if they do get caught. Instead I might find it more productive to go to police or local legislature and see why thefts are going undetected or why no one is being penalized for theft.
Great, but when the government is doing things like repealing say for example the Glass???Steagall Act...
In any case. I'm just not sure how effective it really is to rope off women and mace them when all they are doing is protesting.
K, I don't have the energy to quote pyramid so I'll just reply here.
I did not suggest that they email their congressperson and bringing that up as a comparison is pointless. I also think it's pretty pointless to spend your time and energy to organize people and then not have a clear objective or purpose. It comes off bad and completely diminishes the impact of the protest itself. Right now the story is girl getting maced and dudes talking cluelessly about shit they don't understand instead of "hey wall street fucked up, our government fucked up, here's how we can try to fix it." As much as I value bringing awareness to things that are screwed up, no one wants to hear that shit. They want solutions or at least some soundbytes that they can put over some fucking Coldplay Youtube video or some shit.
I bring this up all the time that I can't really blame individual people in these situations because our public education system has been so greatly dumbed down. I strongly support teaching basic economics or at the very least personal finance in high school. I think that by doing so individuals will become much more informed voters and realize the impact of policy and legislation. It's a slow process but by doing so our country will be better because everyone will realize the impact of repealing legislation like Glass-Steagall and how easy mortgages and low interest rates can only result in a bubble. The housing bubble and the resulting collapse was 100% enabled by shortsighted federal and monetary policy. Financial institutions will take all the money they can get, they do not need it handed to them by the government. This is why I stress the importance of holding our elected officials responsible because they enable such behavior.
As far as ladies getting maced, I don't know the specifics and agree that peaceful protesters probably shouldn't be getting maced. Being roped off, the people walking to their shitty Wall Street job working 90+ hours a week are in the same situation as the people protesting and really don't need to be harassed on their way to work. If every entry level asshole who saw those protests went "OH MAN I WORK FOR AN EVIL CORPORATION, FUCK THIS I'M DONE" quit immediately, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they would find replacements for each and every position within a week if not a day.
Yeah, much better to keep people ignorant so they can be taken advantage of. Got it.
You want it both ways. You complain about the dumbing down of education, and I agree with you about that. But then you express a naive faith that some limp high school class would actually turn things around. It's almost cute.
I absolutely believe that if people were taught basic economics and personal finance in high school that we would not have had nearly as many people sign zero down ARM mortgages or fall for "HOME PRICES NEVER GO DOWN/DOUBLE IN A YEAR BRO" bullshit.
k, i'll start including footnotes with my posts bro. i havent talked about corporations following the law at all earlier in this thread so i totally believe in a lawless society bro
I bring this up all the time that I can't really blame individual people in these situations because our public education system has been so greatly dumbed down. I strongly support teaching basic economics or at the very least personal finance in high school. I think that by doing so individuals will become much more informed voters and realize the impact of policy and legislation. It's a slow process but by doing so our country will be better ...
Yeah, much better to keep people ignorant so they can be taken advantage of. Got it.
You want it both ways. You complain about the dumbing down of education, and I agree with you about that. But then you express a naive faith that some limp high school class would actually turn things around. It's almost cute.
I absolutely believe that if people were taught basic economics and personal finance in high school that we would not have had nearly as many people sign zero down ARM mortgages or fall for "HOME PRICES NEVER GO DOWN/DOUBLE IN A YEAR BRO" bullshit.
You should be careful about what you choose to "absolutely believe" in.
I find your conclusions to be more than a little ridiculous, but then I don't suppose you know much more about the mortgage industry than I do about yak farming in Mongolia. Which is nothing.
Bernie Madoff fleeced scads of well-informed and highly educated people. It happens. And the fact is that many people made out very well with those zero-down ARMs, just as some people did very well by investing with Madoff. It was all a matter of timing and luck.
Bernie Madoff fleeced people because of fraud. Assuming no misrepresentation, a mortgage is infinitely more simple to understand than any Madoff black box investment strategy and therefore anyone with a basic understanding should be able to grasp. The level of knowledge to understand a basic fucking mortgage versus some Madoff bullshit is not even remotely comparable.
But yeah, let's just keep people dumb and I'm sure the government will be able to coddle them cradle to the grave. If your first reaction to teaching economics in high school is OMG TRICKLE DOWN WTF, you've done absolutely nothing but reveal yourself to be a partisan hack.
When I showed up at signing, with out a lawyer, there was a HUGE stack of papers. The escrow people said just sign here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here...
I sat down and started reading.
What are you doing?
Reading before I sign.
You don't need to do that it's all standard.
I'd feel better.
You can't read it all.
Why?
We will be here all day.
So.
They freaked, called my mortgage broker, who came over and pleaded with me just to sign and waste everyone's time by reading everything, it was all standard, I can trust him, it was all just as he explained it, and so forth until I relented. Still looked at everything I signed, even if I didn't read it all.
Talked to a lawyer after and asked it they wanted to see what I signed. Why, you already signed it.
BTW, I went with a sub prime mortgage, because being self employed banks were not interested in loaning to me. Paid it off in 15 years with no penalties, so it all worked out. Plus their variable rate didn't rise the way they had hoped.
Bernie Madoff fleeced people because of fraud. Assuming no misrepresentation, a mortgage is infinitely more simple to understand than any Madoff black box investment strategy and therefore anyone with a basic understanding should be able to grasp. The level of knowledge to understand a basic fucking mortgage versus some Madoff bullshit is not even remotely comparable.
But yeah, let's just keep people dumb and I'm sure the government will be able to coddle them cradle to the grave. If your first reaction to teaching economics in high school is OMG TRICKLE DOWN WTF, you've done absolutely nothing but reveal yourself to be a partisan hack.
There was a lot more fraud in the mortgage industry than Bernie Madoff ever dreamed of. And while it's cute to think a little high school class would allow most people to see that an ARM might not be a good idea, it's also wrong because in a lot of cases those ARMs were GREAT ideas for the people who took them.
The trickle-down comment is relevant and if you had any intellectual integrity you'd see that. What economic viewpoint would this class take? Would it present tax cuts for the rich as the sure way to create jobs? Would it advocate for a flat tax? How would you structure it? Would the class be mandatory?
In any event these classes are growing in popularity all over the country. Somehow I don't think they'll have much of an effect, let alone the huge one you're fantasizing about.
Well I guess since I don't have the first semester's syllabus drafted up it's a worthless idea. If you think that people learning about things that affect not only their everyday life but future also then I don't know what to say.
As far as what would be taught, I'm one of those moderate people who think that people should be presented with several viewpoints and make their mind up on their own. Nothing in economics or finance exists in a vacuum and it's important to be aware of and understand differing viewpoints. Of course that won't let you brainwash people into thinking things so I guess that's a no go.
Comments
And dude, turning working class against working class is exactly what is happening in some shit like this. Dudes may do drone work for a bank or whatever but they're in the same situation that the protesters are in.
All you were doing was describing the people there and what they were, in their minds, doing?
How do you know they were anarchists?
Nothing in your proof "article written by someone who supports the protests" says they were anarchists.
Traveling carnival?
Nothing in your proof "article written by someone who supports the protests" says that.
Unemployable?
Hipsters?
Starbucks?
Kinkos?
Sticking it to the man?
Zero, zip, zilch.
I am glad that you have admitted "Tea Party members are ignorant, racist white people who are afraid of change and diversity".
I'd be interested to hear how to "do it right" and "have an impact" but that probably falls under "Solving the World's Problems" and you don't post in those threads. :shame_on_you:
Just re-read the whole thread. Couldn't find your suggestions. Was it the part where you say they should protest DC and not Wall Street? cuz I agree with that part
^^^Poast Of The Year^^^
Both if they want. It's America correct?
I would much rather support whoever wants to protest their cause, than judge them by what they look like or what they may or may not do for a living...
I'm sure this description above is correct and not women corralled and then maced in the face.
The point being that there are people protesting on a legitimate issue. I'm not sure what you may be looking for to give people a legitimate reason to hit the streets? Total collapse of the market?
I don't think I ever commented on appearance.
Corporations have no obligations towards anyone besides their shareholders. Politicians have an obligation to and should be held accountable by their constituent base.
Let's say I'm a small business owner. If I catch someone I don't know stealing and tell them STOP STEALING BRO, they're more than likely going to tell me to fuck off; especially if they know they won't get caught or even penalized if they do get caught. Instead I might find it more productive to go to police or local legislature and see why thefts are going undetected or why no one is being penalized for theft.
Effectiveness is subjective no? Depending on how many people people protest I'm guessing...
But I'm betting it's more effective than sending an email to your congressperson.
That part wasn't directed at you, but to my original comment and Rich's post.
Agreed. And people should protest when their government isn't doing it's job.
Great, but when the government is doing things like repealing say for example the Glass???Steagall Act...
In any case. I'm just not sure how effective it really is to rope off women and mace them when all they are doing is protesting.
I did not suggest that they email their congressperson and bringing that up as a comparison is pointless. I also think it's pretty pointless to spend your time and energy to organize people and then not have a clear objective or purpose. It comes off bad and completely diminishes the impact of the protest itself. Right now the story is girl getting maced and dudes talking cluelessly about shit they don't understand instead of "hey wall street fucked up, our government fucked up, here's how we can try to fix it." As much as I value bringing awareness to things that are screwed up, no one wants to hear that shit. They want solutions or at least some soundbytes that they can put over some fucking Coldplay Youtube video or some shit.
I bring this up all the time that I can't really blame individual people in these situations because our public education system has been so greatly dumbed down. I strongly support teaching basic economics or at the very least personal finance in high school. I think that by doing so individuals will become much more informed voters and realize the impact of policy and legislation. It's a slow process but by doing so our country will be better because everyone will realize the impact of repealing legislation like Glass-Steagall and how easy mortgages and low interest rates can only result in a bubble. The housing bubble and the resulting collapse was 100% enabled by shortsighted federal and monetary policy. Financial institutions will take all the money they can get, they do not need it handed to them by the government. This is why I stress the importance of holding our elected officials responsible because they enable such behavior.
As far as ladies getting maced, I don't know the specifics and agree that peaceful protesters probably shouldn't be getting maced. Being roped off, the people walking to their shitty Wall Street job working 90+ hours a week are in the same situation as the people protesting and really don't need to be harassed on their way to work. If every entry level asshole who saw those protests went "OH MAN I WORK FOR AN EVIL CORPORATION, FUCK THIS I'M DONE" quit immediately, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that they would find replacements for each and every position within a week if not a day.
This attitude is a big part of the problem. It's also not true.
They have legal obligations to their employees, customers and government.
You can't legislate morality
If the WS "occupation" is still going on next week I'll be shocked....and somewhat impressed.
You made an incorrect statement, just admit it and move on.
But yeah, let's just keep people dumb and I'm sure the government will be able to coddle them cradle to the grave. If your first reaction to teaching economics in high school is OMG TRICKLE DOWN WTF, you've done absolutely nothing but reveal yourself to be a partisan hack.
When I showed up at signing, with out a lawyer, there was a HUGE stack of papers. The escrow people said just sign here, and here, and here, and here, and here, and here...
I sat down and started reading.
What are you doing?
Reading before I sign.
You don't need to do that it's all standard.
I'd feel better.
You can't read it all.
Why?
We will be here all day.
So.
They freaked, called my mortgage broker, who came over and pleaded with me just to sign and waste everyone's time by reading everything, it was all standard, I can trust him, it was all just as he explained it, and so forth until I relented. Still looked at everything I signed, even if I didn't read it all.
Talked to a lawyer after and asked it they wanted to see what I signed. Why, you already signed it.
BTW, I went with a sub prime mortgage, because being self employed banks were not interested in loaning to me. Paid it off in 15 years with no penalties, so it all worked out. Plus their variable rate didn't rise the way they had hoped.
No clue who dude is, but that's some crazy shit he's talking.
As far as what would be taught, I'm one of those moderate people who think that people should be presented with several viewpoints and make their mind up on their own. Nothing in economics or finance exists in a vacuum and it's important to be aware of and understand differing viewpoints. Of course that won't let you brainwash people into thinking things so I guess that's a no go.