On the one hand you think they are doing the right thing.
On the other you think bailing out Wall Street was a great idea.
To be perfectly honest I think someone would have to be simple to think it's not possible to reconcile those thoughts.
The bailout was necessary in order to avoid a major Depression that would have made what we're going through now look like a strong economy. Maybe you think it would have been worth it. I don't. I don't know any serious people who do.
I was also for the auto industry bailout. Let me know when these protesters occupy GM so we'll know they make the same connection you do.
Don't hold your breath.
Sorry I goosed you. Don't know what I was thinking.
I can assure you, my life, the life of my neighbors, friends, customers, would be no worse if AIG, BoA and the others failed. Our lives are not tied to those leeches the way your life is. Any downturn in our economy caused by their collapse could have been bailed out at a tiny fraction of the cost.
You'll excuse me if I laugh at the idea that a guy who thinks the Nazis worshiped Thor knows anything about what would have happened if the many banks bailed out under TARP had been allowed to fail.
Not sure what one has to do with the other.
As I showed before, my idea that the nazis promoted Norse Mythology has a lot more bases in fact than yours, which I recall was, that since Hitler was an Austrian Catholic all Nazis were Catholic. http://haberdasher.hubpages.com/hub/The-Effect-of-Nazism-on-Norse-Mythology
You'll excuse me if I laugh at the idea that a guy who thinks the Nazis worshiped Thor knows anything about what would have happened if the many banks bailed out under TARP had been allowed to fail.
Not sure what one has to do with the other.
As I showed before, my idea that the nazis promoted Norse Mythology has a lot more bases in fact than yours, which I recall was, that since Hitler was an Austrian Catholic all Nazis were Catholic. http://haberdasher.hubpages.com/hub/The-Effect-of-Nazism-on-Norse-Mythology
I might have gotten that wrong.
I think your argument was that all Catholics were nazis.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
looks like nypd piggies have bitten off a lot more than they can chew
they are gettin worked
i wonder if how much pepper spray jp morgan's 4.5 million bought?
I was really dismissive about this protest a few weeks ago, but I'm really glad to see what it has become. Even if nothing comes out of it, I think its still a great showing, people are standing up. I honestly thought apathy and Us Weekly had taken over the country, I've never been so glad to be wrong. The wife and I are talking about going down there and showing some support.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Thought I wanted to join the Occupy Austin protest that starts today, but when I visited their website to see what's up all I saw was severe confusion. I mean, I'm extremely glad that people are getting involved and making some sort of stand. But I'm really not understanding the point. For me, I want to promote the overturning of our current monetary system as controlled by the Fed...so supporting Ron Paul takes care of that. With this, I suspect it's just people who are hoping Obama will suddenly start giving a shit beyond cursory intervention...and I really don't see that ever happening when it's the banks who put him in power. I dunno...I guess I just wish these protesters were more extreme than they are willing to be. Plus, if a cop starts swinging, I'm not one to just sit down and take it. I'd be a liability when it comes to a "peaceful protest". So aside from maybe checking in at City Hall after work today, I think I'm just going to have to support from afar.
Me too, I keep asking, what's the end game? Still, I agree with a lot of gripes that are floating around, from campaign finance reform, to curbing the influence of lobbies, to pointing attention to the growing economic inequality in this country. But despite what the outcomes are, I really just want to go down there to shout, I am fucking fed up with the status quo. And I want to show my kids that I care. Much like when I went to protest the Iraq war, I knew it was going to happen anyways, but at least I went and said no.
All last week across the media landscape, in pod, blog, flat-screen, and crunkly old newsprint columns, fatuous professional observers complained that the Occupy Wall Street marchers "have no clear agenda" or "can't articulate their positions." What impertinent horseshit. I saw a statement on one OWSer's sign that said it all:
$70,000 College Debt
$12,000 Medical Bills
I'm 22
Where's My Bailout?
What part of that is unclear to interlocutors of what we called "the establishment" back in the day? That would be the day of the Vietnam War and the Aquarian Upsurge. One difference being that in 1968 we at least had some solidarity in the older generation coming from figures of gravity like Senators Robert Kennedy (bumped off), Eugene McCarthy, J. William Fullbright, George McGovern, Rev Martin Luther King (bumped off), and even one US Attorney General, Ramsey Clark. Today, the entire "establishment" is a clueless, hopeless blob of self-interested, craven opportunism. Even the arty fringe - the people who pretend to be an avant-garde - are nothing but narcissistic self-branding operations masquerading as culture leaders.
...
It is cosmically ironic, of course, that the same generation of Boomer-hippies that ran in the streets and marched through the maze of service roads around the Pentagon has become a new "establishment" more obtuse, feckless, greedy and mendacious than the one they battled with over 40 years ago. I guess they just don't see that their time has come to get right with reality - or get shoved aside and trampled. The essence of the OWSer's argument is pretty simple: they've got a raw deal; somebody dealt them a bad hand; someone ran their society into a ditch and not a goddammed one of the older generation will set in motion the machinery to correct the situation, or even acknowledge it.
At the apex of this new establishment is the Baby Boomer's moral trophy president: Barack Obama, whose election made the Boomers feel good about themselves - while they preceded to loot the national treasury's accumulated capital, and then reach forward a few generations to rob their legacy, too. I haven't heard Nicholas Kristoff (or any of his colleagues at The New York Times) complain about Mr. Obama's stupendous inattention to the crimes of Wall Street, or to the dereliction of his proconsuls in the SEC and the Department of Justice. I'd at least send somebody to hold a mirror under Eric Holder's nostrils to see if he is actually alive.
For my money, the OWSers have plenty to yell about. Apart from the crimes and turpitudes of their elders, the younger generation hasn't even been prepared for the massive change in reality that these times are heaving them into. If it was me out there, I'd conclude that I'd better make up the future on my own, with no help from my parents' generation. In fact, that future is rushing toward all of us so cold, hard, and fresh even in this autumn season that it might splatter the banking establishment - and the global economy - like a bug on a windshield. The OWSers have a front row seat down there in lower Manhattan. The financial gangrene (thank you Zero Hedge) is not just seeping anymore, it's blowing through the arteries of the money underworld like fracking fluid. The damage can't be contained. Let the Arabs have spring. The OWSers of America own the fall. Rock on OWSers and don't let the "pigs" (as we used to call them) get you down.
In a bizarre turn of events our local daily has had a story about it everyday. On the front page today.
In 30 years I have rarely seen them do a story on a pending protest. Anti-war, nuclear, cop killing... protests typically get no mention before the fact, and little after the fact. But for some reason (internet competition?) they are all over this one.
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I guess I just wish these protesters were more extreme than they are willing to be.
I hear you. It is going from Close down Wall Street to support Obama's job bill.
In Seattle in the 80s we were protesting the South African consulate.
Which had moved to the councilors ritzy home.
Every Sunday we would march in front of his home.
A small group (3-6) of people would go to his door, ring his door bell, then be arrested for trespassing.
This was all arranged and orchestrated ahead of time and coordinated with the police.
Very polite, and zero press.
One week, one guy, who was selected to get arrested wanted to take things to another level.
So he brought a gun with him and managed to get us some press. Much to the distress of the organizers.
It is cosmically ironic, of course, that the same generation of Boomer-hippies that ran in the streets and marched through the maze of service roads around the Pentagon has become a new "establishment" more obtuse, feckless, greedy and mendacious than the one they battled with over 40 years ago.
In the 60s when we tried to stop the government from working, they told us to cut our hair.
Take a bath.
Get a job.
And people did. They stopped protesting, moved back to their home towns, raised families.
Then they got pissed off.
Joined the Tea Party.
Elected a Republican congress.
And finally, after decades, succeed in stopping the government from working.
I
At the apex of this new establishment is the Baby Boomer's moral trophy president: Barack Obama, whose election made the Boomers feel good about themselves - while they preceded to loot the national treasury's accumulated capital, and then reach forward a few generations to rob their legacy, too. I haven't heard Nicholas Kristoff (or any of his colleagues at The New York Times) complain about Mr. Obama's stupendous inattention to the crimes of Wall Street, or to the dereliction of his proconsuls in the SEC and the Department of Justice. I'd at least send somebody to hold a mirror under Eric Holder's nostrils to see if he is actually alive.
.
Wow. What a load of garbage. The looting occurred under Bush's watch. How this guy can lay the blame at Obama's feet is beyond me.
Could Obama do more currently? Maybe. He did get Dodd-Frank passed, which in theory is supposed to address a lot of the problems that led to the collapse of 2008 (again, that's Bush's watch). However, it's not his fault that Congress has defunded the Dodd-Frank act to the point of it being irrelevant. Obama doesn't control the power of the purse.
As to whether DOJ should prosecute, I say, prosecute what? There has to be a crime to prosecute. What crime is being alleged? What law was broken? I'm not saying there wasn't one, but what was it? I sure don't know.
JPMorgan Chase recently donated an unprecedented $4.6 million to the New York City Police Foundation. The gift was the largest in the history of the foundation and will enable the New York City Police Department to strengthen security in the Big Apple. The money will pay for 1,000 new patrol car laptops, as well as security monitoring software in the NYPD's main data center.
New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly sent CEO and Chairman Jamie Dimon a note expressing "profound gratitude" for the company's donation.
"These officers put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe," Dimon said. "We're incredibly proud to help them build this program and let them know how much we value their hard work."
That's a nice gift. :balla:
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I
At the apex of this new establishment is the Baby Boomer's moral trophy president: Barack Obama, whose election made the Boomers feel good about themselves - while they preceded to loot the national treasury's accumulated capital, and then reach forward a few generations to rob their legacy, too. I haven't heard Nicholas Kristoff (or any of his colleagues at The New York Times) complain about Mr. Obama's stupendous inattention to the crimes of Wall Street, or to the dereliction of his proconsuls in the SEC and the Department of Justice. I'd at least send somebody to hold a mirror under Eric Holder's nostrils to see if he is actually alive.
.
Wow. What a load of garbage. The looting occurred under Bush's watch. How this guy can lay the blame at Obama's feet is beyond me.
Could Obama do more currently? Maybe. He did get Dodd-Frank passed, which in theory is supposed to address a lot of the problems that led to the collapse of 2008 (again, that's Bush's watch). However, it's not his fault that Congress has defunded the Dodd-Frank act to the point of it being irrelevant. Obama doesn't control the power of the purse.
As to whether DOJ should prosecute, I say, prosecute what? There has to be a crime to prosecute. What crime is being alleged? What law was broken? I'm not saying there wasn't one, but what was it? I sure don't know.
Right, Obama doesn't have the power to even count. But it's all Bush's fault.
This your guy is the devil, while our guy is a saint ish is soooooo painfully tired.
But I realize that hardcore Obama-philes actually believe that all the banker bail-out money has been paid back...which to most Americans is endlessly laughable.
Wow. What a load of garbage. The looting occurred under Bush's watch. How this guy can lay the blame at Obama's feet is beyond me.
It's not a load of garbage, it just sidesteps the tricky issue that a lot if not most of the OWS people voted for Obama, as did many people who work for "the corporations." In fact, in my experience of working at over 30 different corporations, I would say that the average employee (from intern to VP) is not that far to the center/right of me when it comes to politics.
The problem is that Obama was not a policy change from Bush, he was a change in branding. And now people want to take that shit back to Sears or Target for a refund. And it's not going to be possible, so we have to see what happens next.
It will get more interesting now because the center will have to step up to protect their status quo, and they have no moral or political ideology, so they are gonna have to invent one soonish, or pick a side. If you look at Britain, due probably in part to nothing more than election cycles, it seems to be slightly ahead of sentiment in the US. I am talking Thatcher in 79 vs Reagan at the end of 1980; or Tony Blair and Obama. Britain currently has a center-right coalition -- a reaction to the 3rd Way swindle, something that obviously isn't possible here, so what will happen?
Comments
Sorry I goosed you. Don't know what I was thinking.
I can assure you, my life, the life of my neighbors, friends, customers, would be no worse if AIG, BoA and the others failed. Our lives are not tied to those leeches the way your life is. Any downturn in our economy caused by their collapse could have been bailed out at a tiny fraction of the cost.
Not sure what one has to do with the other.
As I showed before, my idea that the nazis promoted Norse Mythology has a lot more bases in fact than yours, which I recall was, that since Hitler was an Austrian Catholic all Nazis were Catholic.
http://haberdasher.hubpages.com/hub/The-Effect-of-Nazism-on-Norse-Mythology
I might have gotten that wrong.
I think your argument was that all Catholics were nazis.
1) Insult the messenger, ignore the message:
"Stephen Lendman is a major league crackpot."
2) Mention LaRouche.
"He's as nuts as Lyndon LaRouche."
3) More insults are always good.
"Maybe nuttier."
4) Briefly critique the message
"Just look at #19, "Britain is owned by the Vatican,"
5) More insults.
"to know you're entering the psychotic zone."
6) Mention Alex Jones fans for no apparent reason.
"Of course Alex Jones fans live there full time."
7) Pretend you are above it all.
"This kind of shit makes me laugh."
Repeat every 2 minutes.
He mentioned an article from dprogram.net to support his views. That website appears to support alex's views.
beat me to it
New York City cops
New York City cops
They ain't too smart
- spidey
Who are the people in suits pushing around protestors? Do the NYPD blue have suit cops? Traders by day, protestor basher by night?
we got the numbers
looks like nypd piggies have bitten off a lot more than they can chew
they are gettin worked
i wonder if how much pepper spray jp morgan's 4.5 million bought?
My hunch would be that those are private security hired by whatever building(s) are in this shot.
Good for these kids, man. Give 'em hell.
Seems like it's only growing...
Every morning on WNYC, I hear "the largest protest to date" and "clashed with the police". I'd say you're right.
I was really dismissive about this protest a few weeks ago, but I'm really glad to see what it has become. Even if nothing comes out of it, I think its still a great showing, people are standing up. I honestly thought apathy and Us Weekly had taken over the country, I've never been so glad to be wrong. The wife and I are talking about going down there and showing some support.
Me too, I keep asking, what's the end game? Still, I agree with a lot of gripes that are floating around, from campaign finance reform, to curbing the influence of lobbies, to pointing attention to the growing economic inequality in this country. But despite what the outcomes are, I really just want to go down there to shout, I am fucking fed up with the status quo. And I want to show my kids that I care. Much like when I went to protest the Iraq war, I knew it was going to happen anyways, but at least I went and said no.
In a bizarre turn of events our local daily has had a story about it everyday. On the front page today.
In 30 years I have rarely seen them do a story on a pending protest. Anti-war, nuclear, cop killing... protests typically get no mention before the fact, and little after the fact. But for some reason (internet competition?) they are all over this one.
I hear you. It is going from Close down Wall Street to support Obama's job bill.
In Seattle in the 80s we were protesting the South African consulate.
Which had moved to the councilors ritzy home.
Every Sunday we would march in front of his home.
A small group (3-6) of people would go to his door, ring his door bell, then be arrested for trespassing.
This was all arranged and orchestrated ahead of time and coordinated with the police.
Very polite, and zero press.
One week, one guy, who was selected to get arrested wanted to take things to another level.
So he brought a gun with him and managed to get us some press. Much to the distress of the organizers.
In the 60s when we tried to stop the government from working, they told us to cut our hair.
Take a bath.
Get a job.
And people did. They stopped protesting, moved back to their home towns, raised families.
Then they got pissed off.
Joined the Tea Party.
Elected a Republican congress.
And finally, after decades, succeed in stopping the government from working.
Wow. What a load of garbage. The looting occurred under Bush's watch. How this guy can lay the blame at Obama's feet is beyond me.
Could Obama do more currently? Maybe. He did get Dodd-Frank passed, which in theory is supposed to address a lot of the problems that led to the collapse of 2008 (again, that's Bush's watch). However, it's not his fault that Congress has defunded the Dodd-Frank act to the point of it being irrelevant. Obama doesn't control the power of the purse.
As to whether DOJ should prosecute, I say, prosecute what? There has to be a crime to prosecute. What crime is being alleged? What law was broken? I'm not saying there wasn't one, but what was it? I sure don't know.
This guy and Van Jones need to form a group together.
And Jonny, even if these guys work for the buildings, shouldn't they get out of the way once cops are on the scene? Just find that odd.
New York City Police Foundation ??? New York
JPMorgan Chase recently donated an unprecedented $4.6 million to the New York City Police Foundation. The gift was the largest in the history of the foundation and will enable the New York City Police Department to strengthen security in the Big Apple. The money will pay for 1,000 new patrol car laptops, as well as security monitoring software in the NYPD's main data center.
New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly sent CEO and Chairman Jamie Dimon a note expressing "profound gratitude" for the company's donation.
"These officers put their lives on the line every day to keep us safe," Dimon said. "We're incredibly proud to help them build this program and let them know how much we value their hard work."
That's a nice gift. :balla:
Right, Obama doesn't have the power to even count. But it's all Bush's fault.
This your guy is the devil, while our guy is a saint ish is soooooo painfully tired.
But I realize that hardcore Obama-philes actually believe that all the banker bail-out money has been paid back...which to most Americans is endlessly laughable.
It's not a load of garbage, it just sidesteps the tricky issue that a lot if not most of the OWS people voted for Obama, as did many people who work for "the corporations." In fact, in my experience of working at over 30 different corporations, I would say that the average employee (from intern to VP) is not that far to the center/right of me when it comes to politics.
The problem is that Obama was not a policy change from Bush, he was a change in branding. And now people want to take that shit back to Sears or Target for a refund. And it's not going to be possible, so we have to see what happens next.
It will get more interesting now because the center will have to step up to protect their status quo, and they have no moral or political ideology, so they are gonna have to invent one soonish, or pick a side. If you look at Britain, due probably in part to nothing more than election cycles, it seems to be slightly ahead of sentiment in the US. I am talking Thatcher in 79 vs Reagan at the end of 1980; or Tony Blair and Obama. Britain currently has a center-right coalition -- a reaction to the 3rd Way swindle, something that obviously isn't possible here, so what will happen?