yeah, echoing what other's have said, seems like nothing new, really, but a breath of fresh air for what's been in rotation and rather stagnant for most rap music. perhaps the era of rap that we're upon will be based on being straight up WEIRD. from the nicki minaj, kanye, pharrell types to gucci, lil' wayne sorts to odd future, lil' b, das racist up & coming, internet hype of the moment, it all seems to be about projecting a larger than life persona than about producing a solid music product, i guess.
question: who's managing these kids? a friend told me something interesting about that. i'm actually surprised that someone like pharrell isn't snatching something like this up.
I'm curious what you consider(ed) the previous guard to be.
b/w
I said "well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles/way that Odd Future just lampin' like Wu-Tang/Gravediggaz/Eminem."
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
Jonny_Paycheck said:
HarveyCanal said:
I don't really expect Odd Future to resonate anywhere beyond the same hipster circles whose aesthetic they are merely assuming.
You're showing yourself to be a bit disconnected here, on a couple of levels - one, they've already resonated, which is why they're on Fallon, and two, the people they've resonated with are largely kids from their own age group.
As I said on twitter this morning, there are going to be a lot of folks blindsided by this movement and they will try to cover their exposed posteriors with cynical, uninformed critique. Don't be that guy!
I'm not even slightly blindsided by this. There have already been plenty of black, early-20-something hipsters floating around for at least a few years. Taking drugs, skateboarding, and rapping is far from a groundbreaking combination. Plus, who is actually watching Fallon? I actually have lil homies who are all over this "movement"...but they are fringe at best and not about to overtake the norm beyond a few isolated whoa moments.
And to counter your volley, there are going to be a bunch of knee-jerkers who wouldn't give Aesop Rock the time of day who are going to act like Odd Future is reinventing the wheel with this ish.
Genau, but this is often the way innit. Similarly schadenfreude is a notion I think one can only truly express in German.
I'm interested in the notion that "this isn't aimed at you". I mean I'm a balding 30 year old and it's clearly not aimed at me, but I feel implicated by its appeal. Is it the hipster-factor that some folks are having a kryptonite reaction to?
Well, I don't think there's a calculated marketing approach that is factored into the creation of the music, so "aimed at" is probably not the right phrase, as it connotes a conscious effort to target a particular audience. But it seems to me that, like most music created by teh youths, it channels a youthful aggression toward established structures and an underlying struggle to establish a unique identity apart from those structures. As an older gent of 32 myself, that means that the styles teh youths are rejecting are often those that folks my age established as a reaction to the established structures of our youth. Which is to say that I appreciate what these whippersnappers are doing on a conceptual level, but they are doing their own thing, which is in direct reaction to and rejection of what I had taken to be my thing. I can dig it, but wasn't made for someone of my age.
I guess that's a bit muddled, but fodder for debate and food for thought.
I'm curious what you consider(ed) the previous guard to be.
b/w
I said "well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles/way that Odd Future just lampin' like Wu-Tang/Gravediggaz/Eminem."
You've stated this position before, but I'm not sure what to make of it - are you saying that they are not good because they sound like these groups, or that you are not interested because you've got these groups to listen to, or just that they are influenced by these groups?
I always get the sense that you are implying something but I'm not sure what.
The previous guard? According to Tyler it's "40 year old rappers talking about Gucci" but I'd say basically generic traprap b/w 2/3 of what gets posted on nahright...
@ Robert - I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The combination isn't what's interesting to me, the music and/or movement is. I don't know what people are claiming to be "groundbreaking", other than that a bunch of kids with very little support from the gatekeepers of rap music seem to be blowing up. Anyone who's ever been involved with underground rap - and I am looking directly at both of you here - I'd think would be rooting for them.
I never got into Aesop Rock, but a lot of folks whose tastes I respect ride for him. But that's neither here nor there.
So as I'm gathering, people are thinking that this signals the acceptance of black dudes being punk rock weird via rap music? Hmm, Lil Wayne and Baby kissing each other on the mouth wasn't weird enough already?
I'm not sure where you're getting this from, where it's going, or what Lil Wayne and Baby kissing has to do with OF or punk rock, but I think you need to flesh these ideas out more or else it's really hard to make any sense of it.
I don't know how one doesn't compare Odd Future to Antipop Consortium...does that mean they too were genius yet the peanut gallery wasn't ready for that sort of thing 10 years ago? Can they now break out their old songs and do them on Fallon as well?
While the two might share some slightly similar production aesthetics, I don't really think they are comparable. Old alt-coffeeshop spoken word circuit vs young skate punks.
B/w not hatin but the post-jerk pendulum swing of odd Future happened fifteen years ago in the Midwest with white emo/angst rappers who didn't care about the music side of things - self indulgent stream of conscious angst self construction jibber-jabber with a vail of "I don't give a Fuck" all the while self promoting.
Glad these kids are doing there thing. Like anything of this nature though, when the young members of this tribe outgrow it they will have a visceral hatred for it and anything it encompassed. Kind of like soulstrut on backpack/underground hip hop.
The critical reaction to this anti-movement has been comical IMO
Not at all muddled Cooper, i hear you sir. I guess i'm trying to say - i'm with those that say this doesn't strike me as anything new, in the sense that it's part of a skateboard/backpack culture continuum that includes ego trip, anticon, grand royal, jackass, antipop and spike jonze. it's that wonderfully old fashioned thing of trying to be as out there as possible just for the fuck of it, and as such i feel a much closer proximity to it than say, waka flocka flame or gucci.
Sure as hell beats gangbangin/ mistaken for gangbangin shit in La and idiots like The Game
HarveyCanal"a distraction from my main thesis." 13,234 Posts
I'd be rooting for them if their music matched the off-kilter rebelliousness of their visual image.
I just can't be all that impressed with what to me is the same-ole musically, just because they chew a bug or wear funny socks or some other peripheral shit...or that Fallon has now co-signed them.
Not at all muddled Cooper, i hear you sir. I guess i'm trying to say - i'm with those that say this doesn't strike me as anything new, in the sense that it's part of a skateboard culture continuum that includes ego trip, grand royal, jackass, and spike jonze. it's that wonderfully old fashioned thing of trying to be as out there as possible just for the fuck of it, and as such i feel a much closer proximity to it than say, waka flocka flame or gucci.
Well, I'm definitely closer to this than Wocka Wocka and Gucci. But I'm also closer to Miley Cyrus than I am to Cher???and that's not saying I'm particularly close to either of them. I guess I fall into the "not mad, but not cheerleading either" camp. Let 'em do their thing. They ain't hurtin' nobody.
Genau, but this is often the way innit. Similarly schadenfreude is a notion I think one can only truly express in German.
I'm interested in the notion that "this isn't aimed at you". I mean I'm a balding 30 year old and it's clearly not aimed at me, but I feel implicated by its appeal. Is it the hipster-factor that some folks are having a kryptonite reaction to?
Well, I don't think there's a calculated marketing approach that is factored into the creation of the music, so "aimed at" is probably not the right phrase, as it connotes a conscious effort to target a particular audience. But it seems to me that, like most music created by teh youths, it channels a youthful aggression toward established structures and an underlying struggle to establish a unique identity apart from those structures. As an older gent of 32 myself, that means that the styles teh youths are rejecting are often those that folks my age established as a reaction to the established structures of our youth. Which is to say that I appreciate what these whippersnappers are doing on a conceptual level, but they are doing their own thing, which is in direct reaction to and rejection of what I had taken to be my thing. I can dig it, but wasn't made for someone of my age.
I guess that's a bit muddled, but fodder for debate and food for thought.
Good point!
If you are older (- have seen a lot, heard a lot, understand Odd Future within the context of every creative thing which has happened already) what they are doing might not seem particularly groundbreaking or revolutionary. But if you are younger (- in High School, love music, looking for artists to relate to and inspire you) seeing these guys go on mainstream television with ski masks and garden gnomes and perform with a genuine excitement and energy - It's going to make an impact
If you are older (- have seen a lot, heard a lot, understand Odd Future within the context of every creative thing which has happened already) what they are doing might not seem particularly groundbreaking or revolutionary.
I'd prefer if people just said that. I UNDERSTAND EVERY CREATIVE THING WHICH HAS HAPPENED ALREADY
I UNDERSTAND EVERY CREATIVE THING WHICH HAS HAPPENED ALREADY
SOULSTRUT T-SHIRT BACK FTW! Couple it cargo shorts, New Balances, a goatee, and a hat that says "Ask me about Odd Future" and you've got the official Soulstrut uniform circa 2011.
Whilst I can't even begin to comprehend your left field disdain for The Big Chill, I do sincerely appreciate this comment. So much of the time (and a lot of it on here) I hear people get so worked up about stuff like, well, let's use Justin Bieber for an example. "I can't understand it!!! That 'music' is such trash!! And that kid is soooo annoying." This coming from a male in his late 20s / early 30s. Such people aren't really supposed to understand it - they're clearly not the market. That's like me saying "I don't get these stupid shoes that light up at the bottom every time I step. So lame!!! It's all about my Wally's."
While that's a far cry from your relationship with Odd Future, it's still good to hear someone with your point.
haha...get this i tried to stay up and watch OF on Fallon last night and ended up falling asleep with the TV on. watched it in the AM this morning while drinking my coffee and taking my vitamins (no joke).
maybe its lame to some, but i dig the ethos these dudes seem to have (real or contrived). it appears fun and sounds like it resonates with a bunch of younger kids. aside from a few tracks from EARL, i don't see me putting much OF on my ipod any time soon, but i aint about to rain on their parade either.
I hate myself for jumping into these things when I can only respond with my thumbs. Basically, I like what these guys are doing but it's only been a few months and I'm already growing tired of their "sicker than thou" material. I'm bugging how some of you dudes are so excited and riding so hard and ready to crown them as the new baton-holders when, to me, it's nothing new, hence my comparison of Wu, Gravediggaz, Eminem and the aforementioned Aesop Rock. (I thought the whole "changing of the guard" thing was your words, Johnny. Didn't realize it was a Tyler saying.)
I really like how these guys haven't really aligned themselves with anybody. I think I'm most impressed with that. I'm sure rappers and rapper types have been or will be trying hard to attach themselves and catch a ride on the wave these kids are on and it seems to me that they will see right through it all.
DocMcCoy"Go and laugh in your own country!" 5,913 Posts
Ulysses31nicholas said:
Genau, but this is often the way innit. Similarly schadenfreude is a notion I think one can only truly express in German.
I'm interested in the notion that "this isn't aimed at you". I mean I'm a balding 30 year old and it's clearly not aimed at me, but I feel implicated by its appeal. Is it the hipster-factor that some folks are having a kryptonite reaction to?
I'm considerably older than you, even, so I'm further still from whatever constituency it is that OFWGKTA are speaking to. But I like rap, so as a matter of course I'm going to be at least curious about something like this. Not all of it is great, but amongst their collective output there's enough that is to make them worth paying attention to. Moreover, the Fallon performance exemplifies something we hardly ever see anymore nowadays, and that is the sight of an act penetrating the mainstream consciousness without having been styled, stage-managed or PR'ed to fuck, and with all the rough edges knocked off beforehand, remaining essentially the same as they were before the light was first let in upon them. It was one of the main things that struck me when I saw them last year, and it still holds up. Behemoth mentioned upthread about how, to some kids, it might have seemed like seeing the Teen Spirit video for the first time, and I thought the same thing, only my own personal reference point would have been seeing this on TV as a 16-year-old.
None of which is meant to suggest that OMG OFWGKTA ARE THE NEW SEX PISTOLS LOL, but if it were to have a similar iconoclastic effect upon popular culture - especially popular culture as it is now - it could be just as remarkable. We'll see soon enough, I guess.
billbradleyYou want BBQ sauce? Get the fuck out of my house. 2,889 Posts
DB_Cooper said:
Jonny_Paycheck said:
I UNDERSTAND EVERY CREATIVE THING WHICH HAS HAPPENED ALREADY
SOULSTRUT T-SHIRT BACK FTW! Couple it cargo shorts, New Balances, a goatee, and a hat that says "Ask me about Odd Future" and you've got the official Soulstrut uniform circa 2011.
May as well be wearing Jorts at this point. We're all old now.
I'm bugging how some of you dudes are so excited and riding so hard and ready to crown them as the new baton-holders when, to me, it's nothing new, hence my comparison of Wu, Gravediggaz, Eminem and the aforementioned Aesop Rock. (I thought the whole "changing of the guard" thing was your words, Johnny. Didn't realize it was a Tyler saying.)
It seems like an impossibly high bar to set. Nothing is new. Not trying to make it personal but I remember when M**S first came to the Bay and a lot of guys in the scene were like, "what's the big deal? Dude sounds like Project Blowed and he can't really rap outside of ciphers and etc etc etc". I guess what I'm trying to say is, what does this have to be, martian music? Oh wait that's Lil Wayne. I digress... I'm not proclaiming anyone anything, but I do like what these kids are doing. And I don't see too much harm in saying that... you guys seem so cautious, it's like your last favorite rap group broke your heart and you're not sure if you can ever love again. I'd rather be excited and maybe a little wrong than remain reticent right now. If it's quintessentially a younger version of Anti-Pop then the 10 people who were fans of that group can stroke their goatees and snicker, secure in their ahead-of-the-curve-ness.
Not everything OF has done is quite on the level. So it goes with underground rap music, and I for one can say it has been that way for the last 20 years at least. But I've given Bastard a lot of play and it's definitely on a different wavelength from almost everything I'm hearing out of rap music these days.
Comments
question: who's managing these kids? a friend told me something interesting about that. i'm actually surprised that someone like pharrell isn't snatching something like this up.
i hate to say it, but i'm too old to care.
i'm old future :(
I'm curious what you consider(ed) the previous guard to be.
b/w
I said "well daddy don't you know that things go in cycles/way that Odd Future just lampin' like Wu-Tang/Gravediggaz/Eminem."
I'm not even slightly blindsided by this. There have already been plenty of black, early-20-something hipsters floating around for at least a few years. Taking drugs, skateboarding, and rapping is far from a groundbreaking combination. Plus, who is actually watching Fallon? I actually have lil homies who are all over this "movement"...but they are fringe at best and not about to overtake the norm beyond a few isolated whoa moments.
And to counter your volley, there are going to be a bunch of knee-jerkers who wouldn't give Aesop Rock the time of day who are going to act like Odd Future is reinventing the wheel with this ish.
Well, I don't think there's a calculated marketing approach that is factored into the creation of the music, so "aimed at" is probably not the right phrase, as it connotes a conscious effort to target a particular audience. But it seems to me that, like most music created by teh youths, it channels a youthful aggression toward established structures and an underlying struggle to establish a unique identity apart from those structures. As an older gent of 32 myself, that means that the styles teh youths are rejecting are often those that folks my age established as a reaction to the established structures of our youth. Which is to say that I appreciate what these whippersnappers are doing on a conceptual level, but they are doing their own thing, which is in direct reaction to and rejection of what I had taken to be my thing. I can dig it, but wasn't made for someone of my age.
I guess that's a bit muddled, but fodder for debate and food for thought.
You've stated this position before, but I'm not sure what to make of it - are you saying that they are not good because they sound like these groups, or that you are not interested because you've got these groups to listen to, or just that they are influenced by these groups?
I always get the sense that you are implying something but I'm not sure what.
The previous guard? According to Tyler it's "40 year old rappers talking about Gucci" but I'd say basically generic traprap b/w 2/3 of what gets posted on nahright...
@ Robert - I'm not sure what you're trying to say. The combination isn't what's interesting to me, the music and/or movement is. I don't know what people are claiming to be "groundbreaking", other than that a bunch of kids with very little support from the gatekeepers of rap music seem to be blowing up. Anyone who's ever been involved with underground rap - and I am looking directly at both of you here - I'd think would be rooting for them.
I never got into Aesop Rock, but a lot of folks whose tastes I respect ride for him. But that's neither here nor there.
I'm not sure where you're getting this from, where it's going, or what Lil Wayne and Baby kissing has to do with OF or punk rock, but I think you need to flesh these ideas out more or else it's really hard to make any sense of it.
While the two might share some slightly similar production aesthetics, I don't really think they are comparable. Old alt-coffeeshop spoken word circuit vs young skate punks.
B/w not hatin but the post-jerk pendulum swing of odd Future happened fifteen years ago in the Midwest with white emo/angst rappers who didn't care about the music side of things - self indulgent stream of conscious angst self construction jibber-jabber with a vail of "I don't give a Fuck" all the while self promoting.
Glad these kids are doing there thing. Like anything of this nature though, when the young members of this tribe outgrow it they will have a visceral hatred for it and anything it encompassed. Kind of like soulstrut on backpack/underground hip hop.
The critical reaction to this anti-movement has been comical IMO
I just can't be all that impressed with what to me is the same-ole musically, just because they chew a bug or wear funny socks or some other peripheral shit...or that Fallon has now co-signed them.
b-b-b-but that's the reality of the streets!
Well, I'm definitely closer to this than Wocka Wocka and Gucci. But I'm also closer to Miley Cyrus than I am to Cher???and that's not saying I'm particularly close to either of them. I guess I fall into the "not mad, but not cheerleading either" camp. Let 'em do their thing. They ain't hurtin' nobody.
Good point!
If you are older (- have seen a lot, heard a lot, understand Odd Future within the context of every creative thing which has happened already) what they are doing might not seem particularly groundbreaking or revolutionary. But if you are younger (- in High School, love music, looking for artists to relate to and inspire you) seeing these guys go on mainstream television with ski masks and garden gnomes and perform with a genuine excitement and energy - It's going to make an impact
bruno mars is an easy target but I want neon heads to roll
ahem -- Flatlinerz.
[dr.dre] HELL YEAH [/dr.Dre]
:shreddin_it:
I'd prefer if people just said that. I UNDERSTAND EVERY CREATIVE THING WHICH HAS HAPPENED ALREADY
SOULSTRUT T-SHIRT BACK FTW! Couple it cargo shorts, New Balances, a goatee, and a hat that says "Ask me about Odd Future" and you've got the official Soulstrut uniform circa 2011.
Whilst I can't even begin to comprehend your left field disdain for The Big Chill, I do sincerely appreciate this comment. So much of the time (and a lot of it on here) I hear people get so worked up about stuff like, well, let's use Justin Bieber for an example. "I can't understand it!!! That 'music' is such trash!! And that kid is soooo annoying." This coming from a male in his late 20s / early 30s. Such people aren't really supposed to understand it - they're clearly not the market. That's like me saying "I don't get these stupid shoes that light up at the bottom every time I step. So lame!!! It's all about my Wally's."
While that's a far cry from your relationship with Odd Future, it's still good to hear someone with your point.
Let's see what's really good. I'm curious to see if bloghype translates to actual transactions.
With all the stuff they gave away I'm curious to know if they are actually clocking $$ of the exposure.
I sincerely hope they are.
Definitely they're getting that show money
haha...get this i tried to stay up and watch OF on Fallon last night and ended up falling asleep with the TV on. watched it in the AM this morning while drinking my coffee and taking my vitamins (no joke).
maybe its lame to some, but i dig the ethos these dudes seem to have (real or contrived). it appears fun and sounds like it resonates with a bunch of younger kids. aside from a few tracks from EARL, i don't see me putting much OF on my ipod any time soon, but i aint about to rain on their parade either.
I really like how these guys haven't really aligned themselves with anybody. I think I'm most impressed with that. I'm sure rappers and rapper types have been or will be trying hard to attach themselves and catch a ride on the wave these kids are on and it seems to me that they will see right through it all.
I'm considerably older than you, even, so I'm further still from whatever constituency it is that OFWGKTA are speaking to. But I like rap, so as a matter of course I'm going to be at least curious about something like this. Not all of it is great, but amongst their collective output there's enough that is to make them worth paying attention to. Moreover, the Fallon performance exemplifies something we hardly ever see anymore nowadays, and that is the sight of an act penetrating the mainstream consciousness without having been styled, stage-managed or PR'ed to fuck, and with all the rough edges knocked off beforehand, remaining essentially the same as they were before the light was first let in upon them. It was one of the main things that struck me when I saw them last year, and it still holds up. Behemoth mentioned upthread about how, to some kids, it might have seemed like seeing the Teen Spirit video for the first time, and I thought the same thing, only my own personal reference point would have been seeing this on TV as a 16-year-old.
None of which is meant to suggest that OMG OFWGKTA ARE THE NEW SEX PISTOLS LOL, but if it were to have a similar iconoclastic effect upon popular culture - especially popular culture as it is now - it could be just as remarkable. We'll see soon enough, I guess.
May as well be wearing Jorts at this point. We're all old now.
It seems like an impossibly high bar to set. Nothing is new. Not trying to make it personal but I remember when M**S first came to the Bay and a lot of guys in the scene were like, "what's the big deal? Dude sounds like Project Blowed and he can't really rap outside of ciphers and etc etc etc". I guess what I'm trying to say is, what does this have to be, martian music? Oh wait that's Lil Wayne. I digress... I'm not proclaiming anyone anything, but I do like what these kids are doing. And I don't see too much harm in saying that... you guys seem so cautious, it's like your last favorite rap group broke your heart and you're not sure if you can ever love again. I'd rather be excited and maybe a little wrong than remain reticent right now. If it's quintessentially a younger version of Anti-Pop then the 10 people who were fans of that group can stroke their goatees and snicker, secure in their ahead-of-the-curve-ness.
Not everything OF has done is quite on the level. So it goes with underground rap music, and I for one can say it has been that way for the last 20 years at least. But I've given Bastard a lot of play and it's definitely on a different wavelength from almost everything I'm hearing out of rap music these days.
do tell