I know it was a long time ago but it's sort of a fact.
My sort of facts seem to be much different than yours.
The first step toward peace is the international community holding up international laws and Israel admitting wrong doing.
Something that all of the media, and folks on this thread are overlooking, is that Israel broke the ceasefire in November[/b] when it assassinated two Hamas leaders. I assume that's one international law they broke right there for starters.
Oh, and I know it was a looong time ago, but my ancestors are from Africa. Gimme Ghana, I want their records.
Israel's assault on Gaza has exacted the bloodiest toll of civilian lives yet, when the bombing of UN schools being used as refugee centres and of housing killed more than 50 people, including an entire family of seven young children.
The UN protested at a "complete absence of accountability" for the escalating number of civilian deaths in Gaza, saying "the rule of the gun" had taken over. Doctors in Gaza said more than 40 people died, including children, in what appears to be the biggest single loss of life of the campaign when Israeli bombs hit al-Fakhora school, in Jabaliya refugee camp, while it was packed with hundreds of people who had fled the fighting.
Most of those killed were in the school playground and in the street, and the dead and injured lay in pools of blood. Pictures on Palestinian TV showed walls heavily marked by shrapnel and bloodstains, and shoes and shredded clothes scattered on the ground. Windows were blown out.
Hours before, three young men who were cousins died when the Israelis bombed Asma elementary school in Gaza City. They were among 400 people who had sought shelter there after fleeing their homes in Beit Lahiya, in northern Gaza.
Abed Sultan, 20, a student, and his cousins, Rawhi and Hussein Sultan, labourers aged 22, died. Abed Sultan's father, Samir, said the bodies were so mangled that he could not tell his son from the cousins. "We came to the school when the Israelis warned us to leave," he said. "We hoped it would be safe. We were 20 in one room. We had no electricity, no blankets, no food.
"Suddenly we heard a bomb that shook the school. Windows smashed. Children started to scream. A relative came and told me one of my sons was killed. I found my son's body with his two cousins. They were cut into pieces by the shell."
The UN was particularly incensed over targeting of the schools, because Israeli forces knew they were packed with families as they had ordered them to get out of their homes with leaflet drops and loudspeakers. It said it had identified the schools as refugee centres to the Israeli military and provided GPS coordinates.[/b]
OTTAWA ??? Canada's Conservative government says Hamas is responsible for civilian deaths at a UN school where Israeli mortar fire killed at least 40 Tuesday, arguing they have used civilians to shield fighters.
The Harper government says a ceasefire can work only if Hamas not only stops rocket attacks but permanently disarms, maintaining a staunchly pro-Israel position as many other Western nations pressed for an immediate ceasefire.
The Israeli military operation in Gaza has now killed more than 660, including an Israeli mortar blast Tuesday at a United-Nations-operated school in Jabalya, northeast of Gaza City, where at least 40 were killed. Six Israeli soldiers and four civilians have been killed.
Canada's junior foreign minister, Peter Kent, said that despite sketchy details on the school strike, it is clear that Hamas ???bears the full responsibility for the deepening humanitarian tragedy.
???We really don't have complete details yet, other than the fact that we know that Hamas has made a habit of using civilians and civilian infrastructure as shields for their terrorist activities, and that would seem to be the case again today,??? he said in an interview.
He added: ???In many ways, Hamas behaves as if they are trying to have more of their people killed to make a terrible terrorist point.???
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the firing on the UN school ???totally unacceptable,??? but the Israeli military said its shelling was a response to mortar fire from within the school.
Canada's position now places it among Israel's most staunch supporters in the world during the 11-day military offensive in Gaza.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has called for an immediate ceasefire, as has a European Union mission ??? calling on Israel to stop its offensive but also on Hamas to end rocket attacks into Israel.
Like the United States, Canada insists that any ceasefire must be durable, but as U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Tuesday stressed the need to ???urgently conclude a ceasefire,??? Mr. Kent seemed to attach greater conditions.
He said that Hamas must not only end its rocket attacks, but to ???down arms and to cease and desist its terrorist activities,??? and agree not to rearm.
???Canada believes there should be an immediate ceasefire, but only if it's a permanent ceasefire, if it's a durable ceasefire, and if Hamas is prevented or is willing not to rearm and resume its terrorist rocketing at some point down the road,??? Mr. Kent said.
The comments from Mr. Kent, usually responsible for relations with the Americas, are the Conservative government's most extensive since the Israeli military operation began; Prime Minister Stephen Harper has yet to speak of it, while Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon has issued written statements.
Mr. Kent also said that Canadian officials were working with Israeli officials to help 39 Canadian citizens leave Gaza. They were stranded Tuesday for a second straight day when Israeli officials said it was too risky to try to bus them across northern Gaza's Erez Crossing into Israel, then on to Jordan.
One of the Canadians seeking to get out of Gaza, Marwan Diab, said in a telephone interview that Canadian embassy officials told him by phone that the Red Cross would try to get him out today with his wife and four children, ages 9, 7, 5 and 3.
???They are very terrified, and they are not really able to handle it,??? he said of his children.
Mr. Diab, 39, emigrated to Calgary in 1994 but said he has for several years spent part of each year in Gaza where he works for a mental-health organization.
???There is no safe place anywhere in Gaza,??? he said.
Here's an account from Isreali site on military affairs:
Sixth Israeli soldier killed in Gaza, UNWRA school used as Hamas firing position
January 6, 2009, 9:39 PM (GMT+02:00)
1st Sgt. Alexander Mashvitzki, 19, from Beesheba, was killed Tuesday, Jan. 6, when his combat engineering unit came under Hamas fire in Gaza City. Four of his comrades were injured. They took down the source of fire.
In the past 24 hours, an Israeli paratroop officer and three Golani Brigade fighters have been killed accidentally by friendly fire, as Operation Cast Lead entered its third, crucial phase, of combat in populated areas of Gazan towns against Hamas fighters hiding in civilian homes with stocks of rockets ??? often in tunnels equipped with escape hatches.
The Golani Brigade commander, Col. Avi Peled, who was slightly injured in the first incident, said in a TV interview that the cause of the incident, which occurred in a densely populated area under heavy mortar attack, was under investigation. He said Hamas was putting up resistance but falling back as Israel troops moved forward.
An Israeli military spokesman said Israeli forces shelled the UNWRA-run school in Jebalya killing 40 Palestinians in response to mortar fire from the building.
There were secondary blasts from explosives cached inside.
The casualties included the Hamas mortar unit and several Hamas commanders who had been hiding behind the backs of the civilian refugees.
DEBKAfile's militlary sources report: In Gaza, Hamas has abdicated its responsibilities for governance and reverted to terrorist tactics ??? against the Palestinian population - in order to maximize civilian casualties for horror scenes to be broadcast across the world as pressure on Israel to stop fighting.
Palestinians say whole families are locked in their homes from which Hamas open fire. Some are booby-trapped to blow up Israeli invaders with those families.
After shedding their uniforms, Hamas operatives emerge from their bunkers to seize petrol stations and ambulances and grab most of the incoming food and medical aid carried in daily by hundreds of trucks from Israel and Egypt.
Their firing stations are often located in schools. One huge explosives and weapons arsenal was uncovered next door to Shifa hospital in Gaza City. Hamas terrorists force small children to accompany them on combat missions.
The Palestinian death toll from Israel's 11-day offensive is estimated in Gaza at 633 with thousands of injured overwhelming the hospitals. Yet Hamas continues to shoot rockets and missiles into Israel ??? 40 by Tuesday evening, half concentrated on Sderot.
Regardless of Ottawa's endorsement of one view of events, this looks bad to the rest of the world. When the US has spent trillions and thousands of personnel in an attempt to sway opinion of the moderate middle eastern populace away from extremism, this clumsy, indiscriminate killing of civilians is not helpful. Having been provided the coordinates of these safe locations ahead of time, the Israeli military was well aware of the consequences. These mass civilian casualties bring this 'action' or whatever this is being called to the level of their enemy.
This last spasm (before sympathetic Repub admin steps down) is nothing more than a replay of Lebanon - whacking the shit out of a captive population and their infrastructure. This 'war' will change nothing - if anything this will result in more recruits and increased 'legitimacy' for their enemy.
It's never as black and white as you want it to be. One perspective holds that Hamas used the school as a firing position.
OTTAWA ??? Canada's Conservative government says Hamas is responsible for civilian deaths at a UN school where Israeli mortar fire killed at least 40 Tuesday, arguing they have used civilians to shield fighters.
The Harper government says a ceasefire can work only if Hamas not only stops rocket attacks but permanently disarms, maintaining a staunchly pro-Israel position as many other Western nations pressed for an immediate ceasefire.
The Israeli military operation in Gaza has now killed more than 660, including an Israeli mortar blast Tuesday at a United-Nations-operated school in Jabalya, northeast of Gaza City, where at least 40 were killed. Six Israeli soldiers and four civilians have been killed.
Canada's junior foreign minister, Peter Kent, said that despite sketchy details on the school strike, it is clear that Hamas ???bears the full responsibility for the deepening humanitarian tragedy.
???We really don't have complete details yet, other than the fact that we know that Hamas has made a habit of using civilians and civilian infrastructure as shields for their terrorist activities, and that would seem to be the case again today,??? he said in an interview.
He added: ???In many ways, Hamas behaves as if they are trying to have more of their people killed to make a terrible terrorist point.???
UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called the firing on the UN school ???totally unacceptable,??? but the Israeli military said its shelling was a response to mortar fire from within the school.
Canada's position now places it among Israel's most staunch supporters in the world during the 11-day military offensive in Gaza.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy has called for an immediate ceasefire, as has a European Union mission ??? calling on Israel to stop its offensive but also on Hamas to end rocket attacks into Israel.
Like the United States, Canada insists that any ceasefire must be durable, but as U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice Tuesday stressed the need to ???urgently conclude a ceasefire,??? Mr. Kent seemed to attach greater conditions.
He said that Hamas must not only end its rocket attacks, but to ???down arms and to cease and desist its terrorist activities,??? and agree not to rearm.
???Canada believes there should be an immediate ceasefire, but only if it's a permanent ceasefire, if it's a durable ceasefire, and if Hamas is prevented or is willing not to rearm and resume its terrorist rocketing at some point down the road,??? Mr. Kent said.
The comments from Mr. Kent, usually responsible for relations with the Americas, are the Conservative government's most extensive since the Israeli military operation began; Prime Minister Stephen Harper has yet to speak of it, while Foreign Affairs Minister Lawrence Cannon has issued written statements.
Mr. Kent also said that Canadian officials were working with Israeli officials to help 39 Canadian citizens leave Gaza. They were stranded Tuesday for a second straight day when Israeli officials said it was too risky to try to bus them across northern Gaza's Erez Crossing into Israel, then on to Jordan.
One of the Canadians seeking to get out of Gaza, Marwan Diab, said in a telephone interview that Canadian embassy officials told him by phone that the Red Cross would try to get him out today with his wife and four children, ages 9, 7, 5 and 3.
???They are very terrified, and they are not really able to handle it,??? he said of his children.
Mr. Diab, 39, emigrated to Calgary in 1994 but said he has for several years spent part of each year in Gaza where he works for a mental-health organization.
???There is no safe place anywhere in Gaza,??? he said.
Here's an account from Isreali site on military affairs:
Sixth Israeli soldier killed in Gaza, UNWRA school used as Hamas firing position
January 6, 2009, 9:39 PM (GMT+02:00)
1st Sgt. Alexander Mashvitzki, 19, from Beesheba, was killed Tuesday, Jan. 6, when his combat engineering unit came under Hamas fire in Gaza City. Four of his comrades were injured. They took down the source of fire.
In the past 24 hours, an Israeli paratroop officer and three Golani Brigade fighters have been killed accidentally by friendly fire, as Operation Cast Lead entered its third, crucial phase, of combat in populated areas of Gazan towns against Hamas fighters hiding in civilian homes with stocks of rockets ??? often in tunnels equipped with escape hatches.
The Golani Brigade commander, Col. Avi Peled, who was slightly injured in the first incident, said in a TV interview that the cause of the incident, which occurred in a densely populated area under heavy mortar attack, was under investigation. He said Hamas was putting up resistance but falling back as Israel troops moved forward.
An Israeli military spokesman said Israeli forces shelled the UNWRA-run school in Jebalya killing 40 Palestinians in response to mortar fire from the building.
There were secondary blasts from explosives cached inside.
The casualties included the Hamas mortar unit and several Hamas commanders who had been hiding behind the backs of the civilian refugees.
DEBKAfile's militlary sources report: In Gaza, Hamas has abdicated its responsibilities for governance and reverted to terrorist tactics ??? against the Palestinian population - in order to maximize civilian casualties for horror scenes to be broadcast across the world as pressure on Israel to stop fighting.
Palestinians say whole families are locked in their homes from which Hamas open fire. Some are booby-trapped to blow up Israeli invaders with those families.
After shedding their uniforms, Hamas operatives emerge from their bunkers to seize petrol stations and ambulances and grab most of the incoming food and medical aid carried in daily by hundreds of trucks from Israel and Egypt.
Their firing stations are often located in schools. One huge explosives and weapons arsenal was uncovered next door to Shifa hospital in Gaza City. Hamas terrorists force small children to accompany them on combat missions.
The Palestinian death toll from Israel's 11-day offensive is estimated in Gaza at 633 with thousands of injured overwhelming the hospitals. Yet Hamas continues to shoot rockets and missiles into Israel ??? 40 by Tuesday evening, half concentrated on Sderot.
Let's try this again, Rich. Your grandpa's land is stolen from him. It was his dad's, and his dad's dad's. And that guy's dad's. And so on. Imagine this happening in the US, to you. Your great great great great great great great grandpa farmed a big parcel of land. His sons and his son's sons lived on this land. You were born there --and then, in 1948, thrown off by Jews attempting to establish a new country. My father was eight years old in 1948, and I'm not an old man. Do you understand how recent this history is? Would you just let all this go? I really don't think so.
I've tried not to weigh in here on this one, but I decided now that I am going to.
The land wasn't stolen - the British alloted land to the Jews and the Arabs, all approved by the UN. Israel was for the Jews, Transjordan was the Arabs. That simple. The Arabs were not happy with this arrangement, and attacked the Jews. This much is historical fact.
As well, this argument would be valid if it wasn't for the fact that the generations of Arabs you have alluded to inhabiting the land... well, simply did not exist. Many highly regarded historians and historical figures who travelled to the area will testify to this (ie. Mark Twain, who famously commented that all that existed in Palestine in the 1880's was unused swamps, desert and nomads.) Henceforth, the vast, vast majority of those inhabiting Gaza are those Arabs from Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, etc. There is NO ancient history of the Palestianian people, unless of course you are referring to the Jews, who were always regarded as "Palestinians" previous to the 70's when Yasser Arafat and his cohorts coined the term "Palestinian", which even they admitted was a blatant misrepresentation of history but necessary for their aims.
Besides, Gaza after 1948 was under Egyptian control (of which Arafat was a national).. why was there no outrage that the Egyptians were potentially obscuring the "great history and ancient culture of the Palestinian people" until 1967, when after being attacked AGAIN, the Israelis had no choice but to occupy it in order to deter further attacks...
I don't have an avatar, so I don't know that I can be called dim. However, it is juvenile to preface arguments with slander and personal attacks. The facts, if valid and true, are sufficient to speak for themselves.
I found little relevance in your articles danno. They bombed a school.
To balance things out,
Top 5 Lies About Israel???s Assault on Gaza by Jeremy R. Hammond
Posted by: Amir Sahib In: Israel| Palestine| War
Lie #1) Israel is only targeting legitimate military sites and is seeking to protect innocent lives. Israel never targets civilians.
The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated pieces of property in the world. The presence of militants within a civilian population does not, under international law, deprive that population of their protected status, and hence any assault upon that population under the guise of targeting militants is, in fact, a war crime.
Moreover, the people Israel claims are legitimate targets are members of Hamas, which Israel says is a terrorist organization. Hamas has been responsible for firing rockets into Israel. These rockets are extremely inaccurate and thus, even if Hamas intended to hit military targets within Israel, are indiscriminate by nature. When rockets from Gaza kill Israeli civilians, it is a war crime.
Hamas has a military wing. However, it is not entirely a military organization, but a political one. Members of Hamas are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people. Dozens of these elected leaders have been kidnapped and held in Israeli prisons without charge. Others have been targeted for assassination, such as Nizar Rayan, a top Hamas official. To kill Rayan, Israel targeted a residential apartment building. The strike not only killed Rayan but two of his wives and four of his children, along with six others. There is no justification for such an attack under international law. This was a war crime.
Other of Israel???s bombardment with protected status under international law have included a mosque, a prison, police stations, and a university, in addition to residential buildings.
Moreover, Israel has long held Gaza under siege, allowing only the most minimal amounts of humanitarian supplies to enter. Israel is bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. Countless more have been wounded, and cannot receive medical attention. Hospitals running on generators have little or no fuel. Doctors have no proper equipment or medical supplies to treat the injured. These people, too, are the victims of Israeli policies targeted not at Hamas or legitimate military targets, but directly designed to punish the civilian population.
Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.
Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a ???special security zone??? within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law.
Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.
Israel???s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response by militants to the Israeli attacks.
Israel???s actions, including its violation of the cease-fire, predictably resulted in an escalation of rocket attacks against its own population.
Lie #3) Hamas is using human shields, a war crime.
There has been no evidence that Hamas has used human shields. The fact is, as previously noted, Gaza is a small piece of property that is densely populated. Israel engages in indiscriminate warfare such as the assassination of Nizar Rayan, in which members of his family were also murdered. It is victims like his dead children that Israel defines as ???human shields??? in its propaganda. There is no legitimacy for this interpretation under international law. In circumstances such as these, Hamas is not using human shields, Israel is committing war crimes in violation of the Geneva Conventions and other applicable international law. [/b]
Lie #4) Arab nations have not condemned Israel???s actions because they understand Israel???s justification for its assault.
The populations of those Arab countries are outraged at Israel???s actions and at their own governments for not condemning Israel???s assault and acting to end the violence. Simply stated, the Arab governments do not represent their respective Arab populations. The populations of the Arab nations have staged mass protests in opposition to not only Israel???s actions but also the inaction of their own governments and what they view as either complacency or complicity in Israel???s crimes.
Moreover, the refusal of Arab nations to take action to come to the aid of the Palestinians is not because they agree with Israel???s actions, but because they are submissive to the will of the US, which fully supports Israel. Egypt, for instance, which refused to open the border to allow Palestinians wounded in the attacks to get medical treatment in Egyptian hospitals, is heavily dependent upon US aid, and is being widely criticized within the population of the Arab countries for what is viewed as an absolute betrayal of the Gaza Palestinians.
Even Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has been regarded as a traitor to his own people for blaming Hamas for the suffering of the people of Gaza. Palestinians are also well aware of Abbas??? past perceived betrayals in conniving with Israel and the US to sideline the democratically elected Hamas government, culminating in a counter-coup by Hamas in which it expelled Fatah (the military wing of Abbas??? Palestine Authority) from the Gaza Strip. While his apparent goal was to weaken Hamas and strengthen his own position, the Palestinians and other Arabs in the Middle East are so outraged at Abbas that it is unlikely he will be able to govern effectively.
Lie #5) Israel is not responsible for civilian deaths because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee areas that might be targeted.
Israel claims it sent radio and telephone text messages to residents of Gaza warning them to flee from the coming bombardment. But the people of Gaza have nowhere to flee to. They are trapped within the Gaza Strip. It is by Israeli design that they cannot escape across the border. It is by Israeli design that they have no food, water, or fuel by which to survive. It is by Israeli design that hospitals in Gaza have no electricity and few medical supplies with which to treat the injured and save lives. And Israel has bombed vast areas of Gaza, targeting civilian infrastructure and other sites with protected status under international law. No place is safe within the Gaza Strip.
I know it was a long time ago but it's sort of a fact.
My sort of facts seem to be much different than yours.
The first step toward peace is the international community holding up international laws and Israel admitting wrong doing.
Something that all of the media, and folks on this thread are overlooking, is that Israel broke the ceasefire in November[/b] when it assassinated two Hamas leaders. I assume that's one international law they broke right there for starters.
Oh, and I know it was a looong time ago, but my ancestors are from Africa. Gimme Ghana, I want their records.
Don't forget the 18-month blockade. Hamas imports weapons/rockets through the tunnels from Egypt. Yet, livestock, food and medical supplies are smuggled in as well - at least 90 percent. Imprisonment?
It is understood that the reasoning behind this blockade is to dismantle Hamas.
Hamas (حماس Ḥamās, an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamat al-Islāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement") is a Palestinian Sunni paramilitary organization and political party which holds a majority of seats in the elected legislative council of the Palestinian National Authority.[1]
Regardless of Ottawa's endorsement of one view of events, this looks bad to the rest of the world. When the US has spent trillions and thousands of personnel in an attempt to sway opinion of the moderate middle eastern populace away from extremism, this clumsy, indiscriminate killing of civilians is not helpful. Having been provided the coordinates of these safe locations ahead of time, the Israeli military was well aware of the consequences. These mass civilian casualties bring this 'action' or whatever this is being called to the level of their enemy.
This last spasm (before sympathetic Repub admin steps down) is nothing more than a replay of Lebanon - whacking the shit out of a captive population and their infrastructure. This 'war' will change nothing - if anything this will result in more recruits and increased 'legitimacy' for their enemy.
The success of this operation depends on what you believe the objectives are. One thing's for sure this war is not about deterring rockets. This is about winning elections in Israel. Hamas' position (using shields etc.) is also tactical in my opinion. I doubt very much that Israel will be in Gaza in 2 weeks. With all that said, it matters little who owns the land. Israel exists and is going nowhere. The 2 state solution is stalled until right of return is resolved. Unless facts on the ground change (Israel can't afford an army to defend its borders or carry on the occupation or enough Arabs decide they can live without right of return) then there can be no solution to the problem. The rest of the matters in question are minor and can be dealt with.
I agree with others who have stated that Israel and the west should consider a development model for changing the facts on the ground. It certainly had an impact in Ireland. One of the reasons that the oil rich nations of the middle east have not taken this approach is that they want to see the conflict continue. They use it to distract home populations from their own oppression. I can see a similar argument made about the west.
I think it is interesting that few of you are looking under the covers to examine the 'real' motives behind this unfortunate mess.
They can't govern themselves so the US should make Isreal the 51st state so we can force them to play well with our awesome policing and our fabulous national guard.
It's never as black and white as you want it to be. One perspective holds that Hamas used the school as a firing position.
I understand that Hamas fired rockets from the building - that fact is included in the full article that I included a link to. I didn't post the full thing for brevity, but if I should, for the sake of balance, have mentioned that in defence of the IDF they had such a good reason for deliberately targetting a building full of children, women and male civilians who fled on the IDF's behest because two[/b] Hamas fighters were firing rockets with such a destructive force that 40 innocents are merely 'collateral', then forgive me, I was in the wrong.
Time to wheel out a quote that's getting more and more prescient as time goes by:
Albert Einstein Letter to the NY Times in 1948;
'Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.'
I agree with others who have stated that Israel and the west should consider a development model for changing the facts on the ground. It certainly had an impact in Ireland. One of the reasons that the oil rich nations of the middle east have not taken this approach is that they want to see the conflict continue. They use it to distract home populations from their own oppression. I can see a similar argument made about the west.
I think it is interesting that few of you are looking under the covers to examine the 'real' motives behind this unfortunate mess.
How Israel brought Gaza to the brink of humanitarian catastropheOxford professor of international relations Avi Shlaim served in the Israeli army and has never questioned the state's legitimacy. But its merciless assault on Gaza has led him to devastating conclusions:
The only way to make sense of Israel's senseless war in Gaza is through understanding the historical context. Establishing the state of Israel in May 1948 involved a monumental injustice to the Palestinians. British officials bitterly resented American partisanship on behalf of the infant state. On 2 June 1948, Sir John Troutbeck wrote to the foreign secretary, Ernest Bevin, that the Americans were responsible for the creation of a gangster state headed by "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". I used to think that this judgment was too harsh but Israel's vicious assault on the people of Gaza, and the Bush administration's complicity in this assault, have reopened the question.
I write as someone who served loyally in the Israeli army in the mid-1960s and who has never questioned the legitimacy of the state of Israel within its pre-1967 borders. What I utterly reject is the Zionist colonial project beyond the Green Line. The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip in the aftermath of the June 1967 war had very little to do with security and everything to do with territorial expansionism. The aim was to establish Greater Israel through permanent political, economic and military control over the Palestinian territories. And the result has been one of the most prolonged and brutal military occupations of modern times.
Four decades of Israeli control did incalculable damage to the economy of the Gaza Strip. With a large population of 1948 refugees crammed into a tiny strip of land, with no infrastructure or natural resources, Gaza's prospects were never bright. Gaza, however, is not simply a case of economic under-development but a uniquely cruel case of deliberate de-development. To use the Biblical phrase, Israel turned the people of Gaza into the hewers of wood and the drawers of water, into a source of cheap labour and a captive market for Israeli goods. The development of local industry was actively impeded so as to make it impossible for the Palestinians to end their subordination to Israel and to establish the economic underpinnings essential for real political independence.
Gaza is a classic case of colonial exploitation in the post-colonial era. Jewish settlements in occupied territories are immoral, illegal and an insurmountable obstacle to peace. They are at once the instrument of exploitation and the symbol of the hated occupation. In Gaza, the Jewish settlers numbered only 8,000 in 2005 compared with 1.4 million local residents. Yet the settlers controlled 25% of the territory, 40% of the arable land and the lion's share of the scarce water resources. Cheek by jowl with these foreign intruders, the majority of the local population lived in abject poverty and unimaginable misery. Eighty per cent of them still subsist on less than $2 a day. The living conditions in the strip remain an affront to civilised values, a powerful precipitant to resistance and a fertile breeding ground for political extremism.
In August 2005 a Likud government headed by Ariel Sharon staged a unilateral Israeli pullout from Gaza, withdrawing all 8,000 settlers and destroying the houses and farms they had left behind. Hamas, the Islamic resistance movement, conducted an effective campaign to drive the Israelis out of Gaza. The withdrawal was a humiliation for the Israeli Defence Forces. To the world, Sharon presented the withdrawal from Gaza as a contribution to peace based on a two-state solution. But in the year after, another 12,000 Israelis settled on the West Bank, further reducing the scope for an independent Palestinian state. Land-grabbing and peace-making are simply incompatible. Israel had a choice and it chose land over peace.
The real purpose behind the move was to redraw unilaterally the borders of Greater Israel by incorporating the main settlement blocs on the West Bank to the state of Israel. Withdrawal from Gaza was thus not a prelude to a peace deal with the Palestinian Authority but a prelude to further Zionist expansion on the West Bank. It was a unilateral Israeli move undertaken in what was seen, mistakenly in my view, as an Israeli national interest. Anchored in a fundamental rejection of the Palestinian national identity, the withdrawal from Gaza was part of a long-term effort to deny the Palestinian people any independent political existence on their land.
Israel's settlers were withdrawn but Israeli soldiers continued to control all access to the Gaza Strip by land, sea and air. Gaza was converted overnight into an open-air prison. From this point on, the Israeli air force enjoyed unrestricted freedom to drop bombs, to make sonic booms by flying low and breaking the sound barrier, and to terrorise the hapless inhabitants of this prison.
Israel likes to portray itself as an island of democracy in a sea of authoritarianism. Yet Israel has never in its entire history done anything to promote democracy on the Arab side and has done a great deal to undermine it. Israel has a long history of secret collaboration with reactionary Arab regimes to suppress Palestinian nationalism. Despite all the handicaps, the Palestinian people succeeded in building the only genuine democracy in the Arab world with the possible exception of Lebanon. In January 2006, free and fair elections for the Legislative Council of the Palestinian Authority brought to power a Hamas-led government. Israel, however, refused to recognise the democratically elected government, claiming that Hamas is purely and simply a terrorist organisation.
America and the EU shamelessly joined Israel in ostracising and demonising the Hamas government and in trying to bring it down by withholding tax revenues and foreign aid. A surreal situation thus developed with a significant part of the international community imposing economic sanctions not against the occupier but against the occupied, not against the oppressor but against the oppressed.
As so often in the tragic history of Palestine, the victims were blamed for their own misfortunes. Israel's propaganda machine persistently purveyed the notion that the Palestinians are terrorists, that they reject coexistence with the Jewish state, that their nationalism is little more than antisemitism, that Hamas is just a bunch of religious fanatics and that Islam is incompatible with democracy. But the simple truth is that the Palestinian people are a normal people with normal aspirations. They are no better but they are no worse than any other national group. What they aspire to, above all, is a piece of land to call their own on which to live in freedom and dignity.
Like other radical movements, Hamas began to moderate its political programme following its rise to power. From the ideological rejectionism of its charter, it began to move towards pragmatic accommodation of a two-state solution. In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a national unity government that was ready to negotiate a long-term ceasefi
re with Israel. Israel, however, refused to negotiate with a government that included Hamas.
It continued to play the old game of divide and rule between rival Palestinian factions. In the late 1980s, Israel had supported the nascent Hamas in order to weaken Fatah, the secular nationalist movement led by Yasser Arafat. Now Israel began to encourage the corrupt and pliant Fatah leaders to overthrow their religious political rivals and recapture power. Aggressive American neoconservatives participated in the sinister plot to instigate a Palestinian civil war. Their meddling was a major factor in the collapse of the national unity government and in driving Hamas to seize power in Gaza in June 2007 to pre-empt a Fatah coup.
The war unleashed by Israel on Gaza on 27 December was the culmination of a series of clashes and confrontations with the Hamas government. In a broader sense, however, it is a war between Israel and the Palestinian people, because the people had elected the party to power. The declared aim of the war is to weaken Hamas and to intensify the pressure until its leaders agree to a new ceasefire on Israel's terms. The undeclared aim is to ensure that the Palestinians in Gaza are seen by the world simply as a humanitarian problem and thus to derail their struggle for independence and statehood.
The timing of the war was determined by political expediency. A general election is scheduled for 10 February and, in the lead-up to the election, all the main contenders are looking for an opportunity to prove their toughness. The army top brass had been champing at the bit to deliver a crushing blow to Hamas in order to remove the stain left on their reputation by the failure of the war against Hezbollah in Lebanon in July 2006. Israel's cynical leaders could also count on apathy and impotence of the pro-western Arab regimes and on blind support from President Bush in the twilight of his term in the White House. Bush readily obliged by putting all the blame for the crisis on Hamas, vetoing proposals at the UN Security Council for an immediate ceasefire and issuing Israel with a free pass to mount a ground invasion of Gaza.
As always, mighty Israel claims to be the victim of Palestinian aggression but the sheer asymmetry of power between the two sides leaves little room for doubt as to who is the real victim. This is indeed a conflict between David and Goliath but the Biblical image has been inverted - a small and defenceless Palestinian David faces a heavily armed, merciless and overbearing Israeli Goliath. The resort to brute military force is accompanied, as always, by the shrill rhetoric of victimhood and a farrago of self-pity overlaid with self-righteousness. In Hebrew this is known as the syndrome of bokhim ve-yorim, "crying and shooting".
To be sure, Hamas is not an entirely innocent party in this conflict. Denied the fruit of its electoral victory and confronted with an unscrupulous adversary, it has resorted to the weapon of the weak - terror. Militants from Hamas and Islamic Jihad kept launching Qassam rocket attacks against Israeli settlements near the border with Gaza until Egypt brokered a six-month ceasefire last June. The damage caused by these primitive rockets is minimal but the psychological impact is immense, prompting the public to demand protection from its government. Under the circumstances, Israel had the right to act in self-defence but its response to the pinpricks of rocket attacks was totally disproportionate. The figures speak for themselves. In the three years after the withdrawal from Gaza, 11 Israelis were killed by rocket fire. On the other hand, in 2005-7 alone, the IDF killed 1,290 Palestinians in Gaza, including 222 children.
Whatever the numbers, killing civilians is wrong. This rule applies to Israel as much as it does to Hamas, but Israel's entire record is one of unbridled and unremitting brutality towards the inhabitants of Gaza. Israel also maintained the blockade of Gaza after the ceasefire came into force which, in the view of the Hamas leaders, amounted to a violation of the agreement. During the ceasefire, Israel prevented any exports from leaving the strip in clear violation of a 2005 accord, leading to a sharp drop in employment opportunities. Officially, 49.1% of the population is unemployed. At the same time, Israel restricted drastically the number of trucks carrying food, fuel, cooking-gas canisters, spare parts for water and sanitation plants, and medical supplies to Gaza. It is difficult to see how starving and freezing the civilians of Gaza could protect the people on the Israeli side of the border. But even if it did, it would still be immoral, a form of collective punishment that is strictly forbidden by international humanitarian law.
The brutality of Israel's soldiers is fully matched by the mendacity of its spokesmen. Eight months before launching the current war on Gaza, Israel established a National Information Directorate. The core messages of this directorate to the media are that Hamas broke the ceasefire agreements; that Israel's objective is the defence of its population; and that Israel's forces are taking the utmost care not to hurt innocent civilians. Israel's spin doctors have been remarkably successful in getting this message across. But, in essence, their propaganda is a pack of lies.
A wide gap separates the reality of Israel's actions from the rhetoric of its spokesmen. It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It di d so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November that killed six Hamas men. Israel's objective is not just the defence of its population but the eventual overthrow of the Hamas government in Gaza by turning the people against their rulers. And far from taking care to spare civilians, Israel is guilty of indiscriminate bombing and of a three-year-old blockade that has brought the inhabitants of Gaza, now 1.5 million, to the brink of a humanitarian catastrophe.
The Biblical injunction of an eye for an eye is savage enough. But Israel's insane offensive against Gaza seems to follow the logic of an eye for an eyelash. After eight days of bombing, with a death toll of more than 400 Palestinians and four Israelis, the gung-ho cabinet ordered a land invasion of Gaza the consequences of which are incalculable.
No amount of military escalation can buy Israel immunity from rocket attacks from the military wing of Hamas. Despite all the death and destruction that Israel has inflicted on them, they kept up their resistance and they kept firing their rockets. This is a movement that glorifies victimhood and martyrdom. There is simply no military solution to the conflict between the two communities. The problem with Israel's concept of security is that it denies even the most elementary security to the other community. The only way for Israel to achieve security is not through shooting but through talks with Hamas, which has repeatedly declared its readiness to negotiate a long-term ceasefire with the Jewish state within its pre-1967 borders for 20, 30, or even 50 years. Israel has rejected this offer for the same reason it spurned the Arab League peace plan of 2002, which is still on the table: it involves concessions and compromises.
This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel's real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination. It keeps compounding the mistakes of the past with new and more disastrous ones. Politicians, like everyone else, are of course free to repeat the lies and mistakes of the past. But it is not mandatory to do so.
??? Avi Shlaim is a professor of interna
tional relations at the University of Oxford and the author of The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World and of Lion of Jordan: King Hussein's Life in War and Peace.
Zionism must be confronted or else this will keep on, why care? Cause Israel without USA there is no Israel and americans should know that since the tax money goes directly to this zionist state(not jewish state) called ISrael.
Zionism is like nazism and fascism combined with a talmudic touch. It's evil and should be critisised without being called antisemite(bogus tactic by the suporters) This has nothing to do with semite or ethnicity, when one critisize a political ideology like zionism. Even so.. The real semites are the one suffering of these!(the palestinians) So it discuss me when a supporter of Israel bring the "antisemite card" when one discuss the palestinian crisis it's almost like separating and put it in black and white: Jews=Semites good people Arabs= bad people, terrorist etc ..wanna blow out the good state of Israel. You see the ignorance? Disgusting right? IT's RACIST!
Palestinians are as much and even more semite than all of these settlers that call themself israeli.
And back to zionism ..Here i wanna show some famous direct from the horses mouth quotes that is the fathers of zionism/Israel quotes For you to understand more of these zionist demons.
???There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed.??? Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969
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???The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war.??? Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha???aretz, 19 March 1972
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???It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.??? Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972
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???The only solution is Eretz Israel [Greater Israel], or at least Western Eretz Israel [all the land west of Jordan River], without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point ??? We must not leave a single village, not a single tribe.??? Joseph Weitz, Director of the Jewish National Fund, the Zionist agency charged with acquiring Palestinian land, Circa 194. Machover Israca, January 5, 1973 p.2
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???The present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill ??? From the Nile to the Euphrates.??? Ben Gurion, 1973
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???We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population???? Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said Drive them out Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979
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???We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.??? Israel Koenig, ???The Koenig Memorandum??? in 1980
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??? [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs.??? Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, ???Begin and the Beasts???. New Statesman, 25 June 1982
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???When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.??? Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983
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???We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel??? Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.??? Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces ??? Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983
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???We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.??? Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983
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???Hitler???s legal power was based upon the ???Enabling Act???, which was passed quite legally by the Reichstag and which allowed the Fuehrer and his representatives, in plain language, to be what they wanted, or in legal language, to issue regulations having the force of law. Exactly the same type of act was passed by the Knesset [Israeli???s Parliament] immediately after the 1967 conquest granting the Israeli governor and his representatives the power of Hitler, which they use in Hitlerian manner.??? Dr. Israel Shahak, Chairperson of the Israeli League for Human and Civil Rights, and a survivor of the Bergen Belsen concentration camp, Commenting on the Israeli military???s Emergency Regulations following the 1967 War. Palestine, vol. 12, December 1983
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We must expel Arabs and take their places.??? David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985
?????????????????????- ???The (israeli) army will follow a policy of might, power and beatings??? Yitzak Rabin. New York Times, 1/25/1988
???The Palestinians??? would be crushed like grasshoppers ??? heads smashed against the boulders and walls.??? Isreali Prime Minister, Yitzhak Shamir, in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
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???Jewish blood and a goy???s [gentile???s] blood are not the same.??? Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, Inferring that killing isn???t murder if the victim is Gentile. Jerusalem Post, June 19,1989
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???Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories.??? Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, tells students at Bar Ilan University, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989
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???The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the Jordan River for future generations, for the mass aliya [immigration], and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country.??? Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service ???All the Arabs within the borders of the land of Israel are enemies???, ???They all have the same aspiration, and they all express it in a similar way: by violence.??? Rafael Eitan, Former IDF commander, New York Times, July 8, 1992
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???Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours??? Everything we don???t grab will go to them.??? Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998
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???The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more???.... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time ??? August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000
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If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would
put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force???.??? Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000
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???There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies? Not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.??? Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001
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???Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don???t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.??? Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio
This is just small potatoes..there are much more of these type of quotes.
Who Started Terrorism in the Arab-Israeli Conflict? Bombs in Cafes: first used by Zionists in Palestine on March 17th, 1937 in Jaffa. Bombs on Buses: first used by Zionists in Palestine Aug. 20th-Sep. 26, 1937. Bombs in Market Places: first used by Zionists on July 6th, 1938 in Haifa. Bombing of Hotels: first used by Zionists on July 22nd, 1946 in Jerusalem. Bombing of Foreign Embassies: first used by Zionists on October 1st, 1946 in Rome (against the British). Mining of Ambulances: First used by Zionists on October 31st, 1946 in Petah Tikvah. Letter Bombs: first used by Zionists in June 1947 against British targets in UK. (for documentation, cosult The Arab Women's Information Committee and The Institute for Palestine Studies, Who Are the Terrorists? Aspects of Zionist and Israeli Terrorism, (Beirut: Insitute for Palestine Studies, 1972).
can we agree right here and now to ignore this assclown Rafa? by my count he's contributed to about three threads in his entire soulstrut history, and it's only been in these semi-annual Israel clusterfucks. go ahead and search him.
dude wants pull a bunch of quotes from Israeli GENERALS out of context? is this a serious argument?
Zionism is a serious political philosophy, a revolutionary doctrine with myriad strains and currents. read Hess, read Pinsker, read Borochov, read Katznelson. then we can talk.
but don't pull some random quotes from army generals talking shit to their battlefield enemies. Arab leaders over the years have said some shit that not even an Israel hater such as Rafa could possibly defend. a history of denial of Jewish national rights that extends up to the present day. so let's not even go there.
Bombing to make the Gaza prison even more secure for Israel[/b] Jonathan Cook, The Electronic Intifada, 7 January 2009
There are two persistent myths about the aim of Israel's onslaught on Gaza: the first that it is an entirely defensive move, a way to end the rocket fire of Hamas; and the second that it is designed to restore the army's credibility after its failure to cow Hizballah in 2006.
No doubt the Israeli army has been itching to repair its battered image, and for sure the rocket attacks from Gaza create domestic pressures that are only too clear to an Israeli government about to face an election.
But it is a gross misunderstanding of what is unfolding in Gaza to believe Israel's motives are capricious. The politicians and generals have been preparing for this attack for many months, possibly years -- a fact alone that suggests they have bigger objectives than commonly assumed.
Israel seized this particular moment -- with western politicians dozing through the holidays and a changeover of administrations in Washington -- because it ensured the longest period to implement its plan without diplomatic interference.
The pressure on Israel to reach a political settlement will grow, however, as the inauguration of Barack Obama on 20 January approaches. That explains why, as the army brings ever greater force to bear on Hamas's urban heartlands, the outlines of an Israeli plan are starting to become visible.
Despite talk in Israel that a chance to topple Hamas is within reach, that option does not have to be pursued. Israel's aims can be achieved whether Hamas stays or falls -- as long as it is crushed politically.
Certainly, a permanent re-occupation of the enclave with its 1.5 million inhabitants is not desired by Israel, which withdrew its settlers and soldiers in 2005 precisely because the demographic, economic and military costs of directly policing Gaza's refugee camps were considered too high.
It therefore needs another ceasefire similar to the one that expired on 19 December. The questions are: who will "sign" it and what will be its terms?
Writing in The Jerusalem Post newspaper this week, Martin Kramer, a leading Washington neoconservative, suggested that Israel's goal was to forge an agreement with Mahmoud Abbas and restore his rule in Gaza. "Hamas would swallow the pill in the name of 'national unity,'" he argued.
The idea that Abbas and his Fatah party can ride into the Gaza Strip on the back of Israeli tanks may be a fantasy that makes sense to the neocons who brought us "regime change" in Iraq, but few in the Israeli government or army seem to believe it is feasible.
In any case, the distinction between Fatah's "rule" over the West Bank ghettoes Israel has created and Hamas's oversight of the prison that Gaza has become is one Israel appears keen to maintain. The Israeli vision for the West Bank, in which significant parts are annexed, depends on its political severance from Gaza.
Instead, Israel is again pursuing its favorite mode of diplomacy: unilateralism. According to officials quoted in the local media, it wants a deal that is approved by the United States and western governments but passes over the heads of Hamas and the Palestinians.
At a recent cabinet meeting, Tzipi Livni, the foreign minister, put it this way: "There is no intention here of creating a diplomatic agreement with Hamas. We need diplomatic agreements against Hamas."
According to the latest reports, the ceasefire would require, as before, that Hamas prevent all rocket fire out of the Strip, but it would also introduce what officials are vaguely terming a "mechanism" on the only border with Gaza not under Israel's control.
During its lengthy blockade, Israel has been able to prevent goods, including food, medicines and fuel, from entering the Gaza Strip through crossing points on its two land borders while its navy patrols the sea coast. But Gaza also shares a short southern land border, next to the town of Rafah, with Egypt.
Before the 2005 disengagement, Israel sought to control this fourth border too by bulldozing swathes of Palestinian homes to create a no-man's land between Rafah and Egypt. This area, overlooked by military watchtowers, was referred to as the Philadelphi corridor.
After the withdrawal, Israel hoped the steel wall along the Rafah border and its oversight of the crossing point into Egypt would ensure that nothing went in or out without its approval.
However, a small private industry of tunneling under the wall quickly burgeoned, becoming a lifeline for ordinary Gazans and a route for smuggling in weapons for Hamas.
Egypt had little choice but to turn a blind eye, despite being profoundly uncomfortable with an Islamic party ruling next door. It faces its own domestic pressures over the humanitarian catastrophe that has been visibly created in Gaza.
Israel believes the current invasion will have achieved nothing unless this time it regains absolute control of the Rafah border, undercutting Hamas's claims to be running the Strip. The "mechanism" therefore requires that technical responsibility is lifted from Egyptian shoulders.
According to the Israeli plan, it will pass to the Americans, whose expertise will be called on to stop the tunneling and prevent Hamas from rebuilding its arsenal after the invasion comes to an end.
Israel may additionally seek the involvement of international forces to diffuse the censure the Arab publics are likely to direct at Egypt as a result.
Once Hamas has no hope of rearming and cannot take any credit for the Gazans' welfare, Israel will presumably allow in sufficient supplies of humanitarian aid to pacify western governments concerned about the images of Gaza's cold and hungry children.
Ghassan Khatib, a Palestinian analyst, believes that in this scenario Israel would probably insist that such supplies come only through the Egyptian crossing, thereby "fulfilling another strategic aim: that of making Gaza Egypt's responsibility."
And once the Gazan albatross is lifted from Israel's neck, Abbas and his West Bank regime will be more isolated than ever. Undoubtedly, the hope in Israel is that, with Gaza disposed of, the pressure will grow on the Palestinian Authority to concede in a "peace" deal yet more Palestinian land in East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Jonathan Cook is a writer and journalist based in Nazareth, Israel. His latest books are Israel and the Clash of Civilisations: Iraq, Iran and the Plan to Remake the Middle East (Pluto Press) and Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair (Zed Books). His website is www.jkcook.net.
(for documentation, cosult The Arab Women's Information Committee and The Institute for Palestine Studies, Who Are the Terrorists? Aspects of Zionist and Israeli Terrorism, (Beirut: Insitute for Palestine Studies, 1972).
Who Started Terrorism in the Arab-Israeli Conflict? Bombs in Cafes: first used by Zionists in Palestine on March 17th, 1937 in Jaffa. Bombs on Buses: first used by Zionists in Palestine Aug. 20th-Sep. 26, 1937. Bombs in Market Places: first used by Zionists on July 6th, 1938 in Haifa. Bombing of Hotels: first used by Zionists on July 22nd, 1946 in Jerusalem. Bombing of Foreign Embassies: first used by Zionists on October 1st, 1946 in Rome (against the British). Mining of Ambulances: First used by Zionists on October 31st, 1946 in Petah Tikvah. Letter Bombs: first used by Zionists in June 1947 against British targets in UK. (for documentation, cosult The Arab Women's Information Committee and The Institute for Palestine Studies, Who Are the Terrorists? Aspects of Zionist and Israeli Terrorism, (Beirut: Insitute for Palestine Studies, 1972).
clever, but largely irrelevant. Jewish "terrorist" actions were aimed mostly at British military installations and political figures. (yes, even the King David Hotel bombing). you list methods, but not targets. for instance "bullets" are used both by cops and robbers; but are their targets the same?
and these actions were ALL carried out by a small minority of Zionists (Etzel, Irgun) who were condemned and -- ultimately -- physically attacked by the Zionist establishment (Saison, Altalena, etc. -- read up.). I'll repeat: the small minority of Zionists who engaged in the actions you list were arrested and their supply ship shelled by Ben-Gurion and the Zionist leadership. (By contrast, Hamas represents the Palestinian national majority in Gaza and maybe even in the West Bank).
so you can label what the Etzel and Irgun did "terrorism" and in doing so attempt to equate it with Hamas' actions today. (hey I'm using the same word to describe them -- must be the same!) Still, whatever tactics a minority of Zionists used 70 years ago, I assure you the modern-day phenomenon of specifically targeting CIVILIAN women and children in locales specifically chosen for their non-military nature (restaurants, pre-schools and bar mitzvahs), packing bombs with nails to ensure that even the living are maimed, going so far as to send confused developmentally disabled and minor bombers to carry out attacks, plying the scared bombers with alcohol and false promises of sexual-religious paradise, then naming soccer clubs after the perpetrators, and finally campaigning against other terrorist factions specifically on a platform of how many more Jewish civilians your faction has killed, is a distinctly Palestinian innovation.
Who Started Terrorism in the Arab-Israeli Conflict? Bombs in Cafes: first used by Zionists in Palestine on March 17th, 1937 in Jaffa. Bombs on Buses: first used by Zionists in Palestine Aug. 20th-Sep. 26, 1937. Bombs in Market Places: first used by Zionists on July 6th, 1938 in Haifa. Bombing of Hotels: first used by Zionists on July 22nd, 1946 in Jerusalem. Bombing of Foreign Embassies: first used by Zionists on October 1st, 1946 in Rome (against the British). Mining of Ambulances: First used by Zionists on October 31st, 1946 in Petah Tikvah. Letter Bombs: first used by Zionists in June 1947 against British targets in UK. (for documentation, cosult The Arab Women's Information Committee and The Institute for Palestine Studies, Who Are the Terrorists? Aspects of Zionist and Israeli Terrorism, (Beirut: Insitute for Palestine Studies, 1972).
clever, but largely irrelevant. Jewish "terrorist" actions were aimed mostly at British military installations and political figures. (yes, even the King David Hotel bombing). you list methods, but not targets. for instance "bullets" are used both by cops and robbers. but the similarities between the perpetrators and their aims ends there.
and these actions were ALL carried out by a small minority of Zionists (Etzel, Irgun) who were condemned and -- ultimately -- physically attacked by the Zionist establishment (Saison, Altalena, etc. -- read up.). I'll repeat: the small minority of Zionists who engaged in the actions you list were arrested and their supply ship shelled by Ben-Gurion and the Zionist leadership. (By contrast, Hamas represents the Palestinian national majority in Gaza and maybe even in the West Bank).
so you can label what the Etzel and Irgun did "terrorism" and in doing so attempt to equate it with Hamas' actions today. (hey same word -- must be the same!) Still, whatever tactics a minority of Zionists used 70 years ago, I assure you the modern-day phenomenon of specifically targeting CIVILIAN women and children in locales specifically chosen for their non-military nature (restaurants, pre-schools and bar mitzvahs), packing bombs with nails to ensure that even the living are maimed, going so far as to send confused developmentally disabled and minor bombers to carry out attacks, plying the scared bombers with alcohol and false promises of sexual-religious paradise, then naming soccer clubs after the perpetrators, and finally campaigning against other terrorist factions specifically on a platform of how many more Jewish civilians your faction has killed, is a distinctly Palestinian innovation.
Second, I am not arguing, simply posting some interesting reads in my opinion. From my posts, I am sure you can see where my sympathies fall. I'll be the first to admit, that I am not as schooled on both ends as I should be.
If you have any articles, books, or anything I should read up on, please post them up.
I consider this essential reading for anyone who wants to discuss Zionism as a political movement. Avineri devotes one succinct chapter to each of the major Zionist thinkers, giving a short biography of each one and a discussion of their principal works and evolution of their political thinking.
more of a weekend read (i.e. it's less academic and reads more like a novel), is this one. It's really only an account of the first Arab-Israel war, and it's not real serious scholarship. but it's nonetheless considered pretty accurate and its a really engrossing, exciting book actually.
Let's try this again, Rich. Your grandpa's land is stolen from him. It was his dad's, and his dad's dad's. And that guy's dad's. And so on. Imagine this happening in the US, to you. Your great great great great great great great grandpa farmed a big parcel of land. His sons and his son's sons lived on this land. You were born there --and then, in 1948, thrown off by Jews attempting to establish a new country. My father was eight years old in 1948, and I'm not an old man. Do you understand how recent this history is? Would you just let all this go? I really don't think so.
I've tried not to weigh in here on this one, but I decided now that I am going to.
The land wasn't stolen - the British alloted land to the Jews and the Arabs, all approved by the UN. Israel was for the Jews, Transjordan was the Arabs. That simple. The Arabs were not happy with this arrangement, and attacked the Jews. This much is historical fact.
As well, this argument would be valid if it wasn't for the fact that the generations of Arabs you have alluded to inhabiting the land... well, simply did not exist. Many highly regarded historians and historical figures who travelled to the area will testify to this (ie. Mark Twain, who famously commented that all that existed in Palestine in the 1880's was unused swamps, desert and nomads.) Henceforth, the vast, vast majority of those inhabiting Gaza are those Arabs from Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, etc. There is NO ancient history of the Palestianian people, unless of course you are referring to the Jews, who were always regarded as "Palestinians" previous to the 70's when Yasser Arafat and his cohorts coined the term "Palestinian", which even they admitted was a blatant misrepresentation of history but necessary for their aims.
Besides, Gaza after 1948 was under Egyptian control (of which Arafat was a national).. why was there no outrage that the Egyptians were potentially obscuring the "great history and ancient culture of the Palestinian people" until 1967, when after being attacked AGAIN, the Israelis had no choice but to occupy it in order to deter further attacks...
I don't have an avatar, so I don't know that I can be called dim. However, it is juvenile to preface arguments with slander and personal attacks. The facts, if valid and true, are sufficient to speak for themselves.
First of all, the British -a Colonial power- had no right to allot land to anybody. They decided to do so partly because they were sick and tired of dealing with... Jewish terrorism. Second, the Jews took MORE land than they'd been allotted. And finally, the myth that a bunch of plucky Jews defended themselves against Arab assault and emerged triumphant is a myth, the founding myth of Israel.
You are correct, however, that nothing is accomplished by name-calling, and I apologize. Heat of the moment, you know...
First of all, the British -a Colonial power- had no right to allot land to anybody. They decided to do so partly because they were sick and tired of dealing with... Jewish terrorism. Second, the Jews took MORE land than they'd been allotted. And finally, the myth that a bunch of plucky Jews defended themselves against Arab assault and emerged triumphant is a myth, the founding myth of Israel.
You are correct, however, that nothing is accomplished by name-calling, and I apologize. Heat of the moment, you know...
he's back! Cosmo was off by a few hours though...
well, you can object to their being called "plucky" (total myth!), but the idea that the Jewish community was attacked by five Arab armies (not to mention local militia) is undeniable. I'm sorry it flies in the face of your all-encompassing Zionists-as-aggressors worldview.
Comments
Something that all of the media, and folks on this thread are overlooking, is that Israel broke the ceasefire in November[/b] when it assassinated two Hamas leaders. I assume that's one international law they broke right there for starters.
Oh, and I know it was a looong time ago, but my ancestors are from Africa. Gimme Ghana, I want their records.
F*ck it, and f*ck anybody apologising for this shit.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-obama
Here's the position adopted by Canada:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090106.wgaza_canadians07/BNStory/Front
Here's an account from Isreali site on military affairs:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5831
This last spasm (before sympathetic Repub admin steps down) is nothing more than a replay of Lebanon - whacking the shit out of a captive population and their infrastructure. This 'war' will change nothing - if anything this will result in more recruits and increased 'legitimacy' for their enemy.
I've tried not to weigh in here on this one, but I decided now that I am going to.
The land wasn't stolen - the British alloted land to the Jews and the Arabs, all approved by the UN. Israel was for the Jews, Transjordan was the Arabs. That simple. The Arabs were not happy with this arrangement, and attacked the Jews. This much is historical fact.
As well, this argument would be valid if it wasn't for the fact that the generations of Arabs you have alluded to inhabiting the land... well, simply did not exist. Many highly regarded historians and historical figures who travelled to the area will testify to this (ie. Mark Twain, who famously commented that all that existed in Palestine in the 1880's was unused swamps, desert and nomads.) Henceforth, the vast, vast majority of those inhabiting Gaza are those Arabs from Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, etc. There is NO ancient history of the Palestianian people, unless of course you are referring to the Jews, who were always regarded as "Palestinians" previous to the 70's when Yasser Arafat and his cohorts coined the term "Palestinian", which even they admitted was a blatant misrepresentation of history but necessary for their aims.
Besides, Gaza after 1948 was under Egyptian control (of which Arafat was a national).. why was there no outrage that the Egyptians were potentially obscuring the "great history and ancient culture of the Palestinian people" until 1967, when after being attacked AGAIN, the Israelis had no choice but to occupy it in order to deter further attacks...
I don't have an avatar, so I don't know that I can be called dim. However, it is juvenile to preface arguments with slander and personal attacks. The facts, if valid and true, are sufficient to speak for themselves.
To balance things out,
Just curious.
There is nothing here to contradict hommie.
Of course I don't think it's a lie that Hamas advocates suicide bombings as a means to end the war.
The human shields thing is blown way outta proportion, and an inadequate defense of bombing a school.
Don't forget the 18-month blockade. Hamas imports weapons/rockets through the tunnels from Egypt. Yet, livestock, food and medical supplies are smuggled in as well - at least 90 percent. Imprisonment?
It is understood that the reasoning behind this blockade is to dismantle Hamas.
OH.
The success of this operation depends on what you believe the objectives are. One thing's for sure this war is not about deterring rockets. This is about winning elections in Israel. Hamas' position (using shields etc.) is also tactical in my opinion. I doubt very much that Israel will be in Gaza in 2 weeks. With all that said, it matters little who owns the land. Israel exists and is going nowhere. The 2 state solution is stalled until right of return is resolved. Unless facts on the ground change (Israel can't afford an army to defend its borders or carry on the occupation or enough Arabs decide they can live without right of return) then there can be no solution to the problem. The rest of the matters in question are minor and can be dealt with.
I agree with others who have stated that Israel and the west should consider a development model for changing the facts on the ground. It certainly had an impact in Ireland. One of the reasons that the oil rich nations of the middle east have not taken this approach is that they want to see the conflict continue. They use it to distract home populations from their own oppression. I can see a similar argument made about the west.
I think it is interesting that few of you are looking under the covers to examine the 'real' motives behind this unfortunate mess.
I understand that Hamas fired rockets from the building - that fact is included in the full article that I included a link to. I didn't post the full thing for brevity, but if I should, for the sake of balance, have mentioned that in defence of the IDF they had such a good reason for deliberately targetting a building full of children, women and male civilians who fled on the IDF's behest because two[/b] Hamas fighters were firing rockets with such a destructive force that 40 innocents are merely 'collateral', then forgive me, I was in the wrong.
Time to wheel out a quote that's getting more and more prescient as time goes by:
Albert Einstein Letter to the NY Times in 1948;
'Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.'
Attn Roneazy:
Zionism is like nazism and fascism combined with a talmudic touch. It's evil and should be critisised without being called antisemite(bogus tactic by the suporters)
This has nothing to do with semite or ethnicity, when one critisize a political ideology like zionism. Even so.. The real semites are the one suffering of these!(the palestinians)
So it discuss me when a supporter of Israel bring the "antisemite card" when one discuss the palestinian crisis it's almost like separating and put it in black and white: Jews=Semites good people Arabs= bad people, terrorist etc ..wanna blow out the good state of Israel. You see the ignorance? Disgusting right? IT's RACIST!
Palestinians are as much and even more semite than all of these settlers that call themself israeli.
And back to zionism ..Here i wanna show some famous direct from the horses mouth quotes that is the fathers of zionism/Israel quotes
For you to understand more of these zionist demons.
???There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed.???
Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969
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???The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war.???
Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha???aretz, 19 March 1972
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???It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.???
Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972
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???The only solution is Eretz Israel [Greater Israel], or at least Western Eretz Israel [all the land west of Jordan River], without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point ??? We must not leave a single village, not a single tribe.???
Joseph Weitz, Director of the Jewish National Fund, the Zionist agency charged with acquiring Palestinian land, Circa 194. Machover Israca, January 5, 1973 p.2
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???The present map of Palestine was drawn by the British mandate. The Jewish people have another map which our youth and adults should strive to fulfill ??? From the Nile to the Euphrates.???
Ben Gurion, 1973
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???We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population???? Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said Drive them out
Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979
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???We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.???
Israel Koenig, ???The Koenig Memorandum??? in 1980
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??? [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs.???
Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, ???Begin and the Beasts???. New Statesman, 25 June 1982
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???When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.???
Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983
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???We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel??? Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.???
Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces ??? Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983
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???We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.???
Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983
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???Hitler???s legal power was based upon the ???Enabling Act???, which was passed quite legally by the Reichstag and which allowed the Fuehrer and his representatives, in plain language, to be what they wanted, or in legal language, to issue regulations having the force of law. Exactly the same type of act was passed by the Knesset [Israeli???s Parliament] immediately after the 1967 conquest granting the Israeli governor and his representatives the power of Hitler, which they use in Hitlerian manner.???
Dr. Israel Shahak, Chairperson of the Israeli League for Human and Civil Rights, and a survivor of the Bergen Belsen concentration camp, Commenting on the Israeli military???s Emergency Regulations following the 1967 War. Palestine, vol. 12, December 1983
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We must expel Arabs and take their places.???
David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985
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???The (israeli) army will follow a policy of might, power and beatings???
Yitzak Rabin. New York Times, 1/25/1988
???The Palestinians??? would be crushed like grasshoppers ??? heads smashed against the boulders and walls.???
Isreali Prime Minister, Yitzhak Shamir, in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
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???Jewish blood and a goy???s [gentile???s] blood are not the same.???
Israeli Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg, Inferring that killing isn???t murder if the victim is Gentile. Jerusalem Post, June 19,1989
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???Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories.???
Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, tells students at Bar Ilan University, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989
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???The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the Jordan River for future generations, for the mass aliya [immigration], and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country.???
Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service
???All the Arabs within the borders of the land of Israel are enemies???, ???They all have the same aspiration, and they all express it in a similar way: by violence.???
Rafael Eitan, Former IDF commander, New York Times, July 8, 1992
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???Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours??? Everything we don???t grab will go to them.???
Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998
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???The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more???....
Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time ??? August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000
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If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force???.???
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000
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???There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies? Not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.???
Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001
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???Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don???t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.???
Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio
This is just small potatoes..there are much more of these type of quotes.
Bombs in Cafes: first used by Zionists in Palestine on March 17th, 1937 in Jaffa.
Bombs on Buses: first used by Zionists in Palestine Aug. 20th-Sep. 26, 1937.
Bombs in Market Places: first used by Zionists on July 6th, 1938 in Haifa.
Bombing of Hotels: first used by Zionists on July 22nd, 1946 in Jerusalem.
Bombing of Foreign Embassies: first used by Zionists on October 1st, 1946 in Rome (against the British).
Mining of Ambulances: First used by Zionists on October 31st, 1946 in Petah Tikvah.
Letter Bombs: first used by Zionists in June 1947 against British targets in UK.
(for documentation, cosult The Arab Women's Information Committee and The Institute for Palestine Studies, Who Are the Terrorists? Aspects of Zionist and Israeli Terrorism, (Beirut: Insitute for Palestine Studies, 1972).
dude wants pull a bunch of quotes from Israeli GENERALS out of context? is this a serious argument?
Zionism is a serious political philosophy, a revolutionary doctrine with myriad strains and currents. read Hess, read Pinsker, read Borochov, read Katznelson. then we can talk.
but don't pull some random quotes from army generals talking shit to their battlefield enemies. Arab leaders over the years have said some shit that not even an Israel hater such as Rafa could possibly defend. a history of denial of Jewish national rights that extends up to the present day. so let's not even go there.
Riiiigghhhht.
clever, but largely irrelevant. Jewish "terrorist" actions were aimed mostly at British military installations and political figures. (yes, even the King David Hotel bombing). you list methods, but not targets. for instance "bullets" are used both by cops and robbers; but are their targets the same?
and these actions were ALL carried out by a small minority of Zionists (Etzel, Irgun) who were condemned and -- ultimately -- physically attacked by the Zionist establishment (Saison, Altalena, etc. -- read up.). I'll repeat: the small minority of Zionists who engaged in the actions you list were arrested and their supply ship shelled by Ben-Gurion and the Zionist leadership. (By contrast, Hamas represents the Palestinian national majority in Gaza and maybe even in the West Bank).
so you can label what the Etzel and Irgun did "terrorism" and in doing so attempt to equate it with Hamas' actions today. (hey I'm using the same word to describe them -- must be the same!) Still, whatever tactics a minority of Zionists used 70 years ago, I assure you the modern-day phenomenon of specifically targeting CIVILIAN women and children in locales specifically chosen for their non-military nature (restaurants, pre-schools and bar mitzvahs), packing bombs with nails to ensure that even the living are maimed, going so far as to send confused developmentally disabled and minor bombers to carry out attacks, plying the scared bombers with alcohol and false promises of sexual-religious paradise, then naming soccer clubs after the perpetrators, and finally campaigning against other terrorist factions specifically on a platform of how many more Jewish civilians your faction has killed, is a distinctly Palestinian innovation.
Firstly, I cannot take credit for that listing, see: http://angryarab.blogspot.com
Second, I am not arguing, simply posting some interesting reads in my opinion. From my posts, I am sure you can see where my sympathies fall. I'll be the first to admit, that I am not as schooled on both ends as I should be.
If you have any articles, books, or anything I should read up on, please post them up.
also good are this and this.
for more of an Israel history, I like this, though it's more straight Israel history than Arab-Israel conflict history.
First of all, the British -a Colonial power- had no right to allot land to anybody. They decided to do so partly because they were sick and tired of dealing with... Jewish terrorism. Second, the Jews took MORE land than they'd been allotted. And finally, the myth that a bunch of plucky Jews defended themselves against Arab assault and emerged triumphant is a myth, the founding myth of Israel.
You are correct, however, that nothing is accomplished by name-calling, and I apologize. Heat of the moment, you know...
he's back! Cosmo was off by a few hours though...
well, you can object to their being called "plucky" (total myth!), but the idea that the Jewish community was attacked by five Arab armies (not to mention local militia) is undeniable. I'm sorry it flies in the face of your all-encompassing Zionists-as-aggressors worldview.