Me neither, really. (My mom is Jewish but I was raised Catholic).
The point remains... How can you take seriously a man who says that he's from Israel --two thousand years ago? How is it that this impossibly ridiculous argument has passed muster for a few decades in the West, especially the United States?
It's almost as though we, in the USA, are so surrounded by Christian imbecility we just accept the same bullshit from minority religions.
this is like arguing with a ten yr old.
I raised the Jews-are-from-Israel thing in specific response to Rock's Native American-Palestinian analogy. I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there. if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
(like I said, I am not presenting this Jews-are-from-Israel fact alone as a reason Jews had a "right" to establish a modern republic in Israel. But to ignore this fact in drawing the American-Palestinian analogy is insane; the cases are totally different.)
like I said in response to Jonny's Sephardic/Ashkenazi question: over 50% of Israel's inhabitants descend directly from families expelled by the Romans, who moved a few hundred miles away, and who returned 1500 years later. the rest immigrated from S. America, Europe, etc. but were nonetheless still part of the same people. (Studies show that modern day Jews have more in common genetically with each other than with the non-Jewish populations in which they live. that means a German Jew shares more genes with an Iranian Jew than he does with his non-Jewish German neighbors.)
yes it's bizarre and unprecedented in history. and you clearly have trouble wrapping your head around it. and yet it happened.
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
like I said:
if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
I stopped where you cited the study that was designed to find a link between Jews in Israel and Jews around the world, as finding, shockingly, the link it set out to find.
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
like I said:
if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
What can I say? You are a person so concerned with your racial identity you actually believe you're from a place your ancestors left two thousand years ago. My great great great grand-parents on both sides emigrated from Wales but I don't think I'm Welsh. If you're religious I think you believe a load of bullshit. If you're not religious I think you're so soft you were easy to brainwash.
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
like I said:
if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
What can I say? You are a person so concerned with your racial identity you actually believe you're from a place your ancestors left two thousand years ago. My great great great grand-parents on both sides emigrated from Wales but I don't think I'm Welsh. If you're religious I think you believe a load of bullshit. If you're not religious I think you're so soft you were easy to brainwash.
Ah, this is too rich. Call rootless a pomegranate head or whatever you want, but calling him soft is pure laughs. Man, I wish this conversation were in person! I'd wager good money that your corny ad hominem attacks and hackneyed bow-to-the-force-of-my-moral-indignation arugments would disapear mighty quick.
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
like I said:
if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
What can I say? You are a person so concerned with your racial identity you actually believe you're from a place your ancestors left two thousand years ago. My great great great grand-parents on both sides emigrated from Wales but I don't think I'm Welsh. If you're religious I think you believe a load of bullshit. If you're not religious I think you're so soft you were easy to brainwash.
Ah, this is too rich. Call rootless a pomegranate head or whatever you want, but calling him soft is pure laughs. Man, I wish this conversation were in person! I'd wager good money that your corny ad hominem attacks and hackneyed bow-to-the-force-of-my-moral-indignation arugments would disapear mighty quick.
Really? I'll be at the next WFMU with a table.
And you might consider the "soft" as a descriptor of his brain. So you think he's a bruiser of sorts? Is he really fat? I hate fighting fat dudes. It's like walking in sand.
And you might consider the "soft" as a descriptor of his brain. So you think he's a bruiser of sorts? Is he really fat? If you can say the right thing to get him to knock your bad tooth out it'll be a win/win.
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
like I said:
if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
What can I say? You are a person so concerned with your racial identity you actually believe you're from a place your ancestors left two thousand years ago. My great great great grand-parents on both sides emigrated from Wales but I don't think I'm Welsh. If you're religious I think you believe a load of bullshit. If you're not religious I think you're so soft you were easy to brainwash.
Ah, this is too rich. Call rootless a pomegranate head or whatever you want, but calling him soft is pure laughs. Man, I wish this conversation were in person! I'd wager good money that your corny ad hominem attacks and hackneyed bow-to-the-force-of-my-moral-indignation arugments would disapear mighty quick.
Really? I'll be at the next WFMU with a table.
And you might consider the "soft" as a descriptor of his brain. So you think he's a bruiser of sorts? Is he really fat? I hate fighting fat dudes. It's like walking in sand.
SWEET! All we have to do now is wait 10 months and then SHIT IS GOING DOWN!!!!
And you might consider the "soft" as a descriptor of his brain. So you think he's a bruiser of sorts? Is he really fat?
If you can say the right thing to get him to knock your bad tooth out it'll be a win/win. That's true. Why can't the world be that just? I guess because it is what it is, no metaphysical garbage... that is, the kind of garbage that makes Israeli Jews feel they have some claim on land where they lived MILLENIA ago...
I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
like I said:
if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
What can I say? You are a person so concerned with your racial identity you actually believe you're from a place your ancestors left two thousand years ago. My great great great grand-parents on both sides emigrated from Wales but I don't think I'm Welsh. If you're religious I think you believe a load of bullshit. If you're not religious I think you're so soft you were easy to brainwash.
Ah, this is too rich. Call rootless a pomegranate head or whatever you want, but calling him soft is pure laughs. Man, I wish this conversation were in person! I'd wager good money that your corny ad hominem attacks and hackneyed bow-to-the-force-of-my-moral-indignation arugments would disapear mighty quick.
So... this is a big Jew vs. smalll Gentile argument? That's pretty cool. Can my girlfriend take pictures?
It's a tragedy that the Israelis - a people who must understand better than almost anybody the horrors of oppression - are now acting as oppressors. As the great Jewish writer Primo Levi once remarked "Everybody has their Jews, and for the Israelis it's the Palestinians". By creating a middle Eastern version of the Warsaw ghetto they are recapitulating their own history as though they've forgotten it. And by trying to paint an equivalence between the Palestinians - with their homemade rockets and stone-throwing teenagers - and themselves - with one of the most sophisticated military machines in the world - they sacrifice all credibility.
The Israelis are a gifted and resourceful people who fully deserve the right to live in peace, but who seem intent on squandering every chance to allow that to happen. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that this conflict serves the political and economic purposes of Israel so well that they have every interest in maintaining it. While there is fighting they can continue to build illegal settlements. While there is fighting they continue to receive huge quantities of military aid from the United States. And while there is fighting they can avoid looking candidly at themselves and the ruthlessness into which they are descending.
Gaza is now an experiment in provocation. Stuff one and a half million people into a tiny space, stifle their access to water, electricity, food and medical treatment, destroy their livelihoods, and humiliate them regularly...and, surprise, surprise - they turn hostile. Now why would you want to make that experiment?
Because the hostility you provoke is the whole point. Now 'under attack' you can cast yourself as the victim, and call out the helicopter gunships and the F16 attack fighters and the heavy tanks and the guided missiles, and destroy yet more of the pathetic remains of infrastructure that the Palestinian state still has left. And then you can point to it as a hopeless case, unfit to govern itself, a terrorist state, a state with which you couldn't possibly reach an accommodation.
And then you can carry on with business as usual, quietly stealing their homeland.
It's a tragedy that the Israelis - a people who must understand better than almost anybody the horrors of oppression - are now acting as oppressors. As the great Jewish writer Primo Levi once remarked "Everybody has their Jews, and for the Israelis it's the Palestinians". By creating a middle Eastern version of the Warsaw ghetto they are recapitulating their own history as though they've forgotten it. And by trying to paint an equivalence between the Palestinians - with their homemade rockets and stone-throwing teenagers - and themselves - with one of the most sophisticated military machines in the world - they sacrifice all credibility.
The Israelis are a gifted and resourceful people who fully deserve the right to live in peace, but who seem intent on squandering every chance to allow that to happen. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that this conflict serves the political and economic purposes of Israel so well that they have every interest in maintaining it. While there is fighting they can continue to build illegal settlements. While there is fighting they continue to receive huge quantities of military aid from the United States. And while there is fighting they can avoid looking candidly at themselves and the ruthlessness into which they are descending.
Gaza is now an experiment in provocation. Stuff one and a half million people into a tiny space, stifle their access to water, electricity, food and medical treatment, destroy their livelihoods, and humiliate them regularly...and, surprise, surprise - they turn hostile. Now why would you want to make that experiment?
Because the hostility you provoke is the whole point. Now 'under attack' you can cast yourself as the victim, and call out the helicopter gunships and the F16 attack fighters and the heavy tanks and the guided missiles, and destroy yet more of the pathetic remains of infrastructure that the Palestinian state still has left. And then you can point to it as a hopeless case, unfit to govern itself, a terrorist state, a state with which you couldn't possibly reach an accommodation.
And then you can carry on with business as usual, quietly stealing their homeland.
It's a tragedy that the Israelis - a people who must understand better than almost anybody the horrors of oppression - are now acting as oppressors. As the great Jewish writer Primo Levi once remarked "Everybody has their Jews, and for the Israelis it's the Palestinians". By creating a middle Eastern version of the Warsaw ghetto they are recapitulating their own history as though they've forgotten it. And by trying to paint an equivalence between the Palestinians - with their homemade rockets and stone-throwing teenagers - and themselves - with one of the most sophisticated military machines in the world - they sacrifice all credibility.
The Israelis are a gifted and resourceful people who fully deserve the right to live in peace, but who seem intent on squandering every chance to allow that to happen. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that this conflict serves the political and economic purposes of Israel so well that they have every interest in maintaining it. While there is fighting they can continue to build illegal settlements. While there is fighting they continue to receive huge quantities of military aid from the United States. And while there is fighting they can avoid looking candidly at themselves and the ruthlessness into which they are descending.
Gaza is now an experiment in provocation. Stuff one and a half million people into a tiny space, stifle their access to water, electricity, food and medical treatment, destroy their livelihoods, and humiliate them regularly...and, surprise, surprise - they turn hostile. Now why would you want to make that experiment?
Because the hostility you provoke is the whole point. Now 'under attack' you can cast yourself as the victim, and call out the helicopter gunships and the F16 attack fighters and the heavy tanks and the guided missiles, and destroy yet more of the pathetic remains of infrastructure that the Palestinian state still has left. And then you can point to it as a hopeless case, unfit to govern itself, a terrorist state, a state with which you couldn't possibly reach an accommodation.
And then you can carry on with business as usual, quietly stealing their homeland.
Comments
this is like arguing with a ten yr old.
I raised the Jews-are-from-Israel thing in specific response to Rock's Native American-Palestinian analogy. I think most sane, intelligent people would consider it relevant that Native Americans were displaced by Euros who had never set foot on the continent, whereas Palestinians were displaced in a war with people that were actually originally from there. if you don't think this is a relevant distinction to consider in drawing a Native American-Palestinian analogy, then I don't know what to tell you.
(like I said, I am not presenting this Jews-are-from-Israel fact alone as a reason Jews had a "right" to establish a modern republic in Israel. But to ignore this fact in drawing the American-Palestinian analogy is insane; the cases are totally different.)
like I said in response to Jonny's Sephardic/Ashkenazi question: over 50% of Israel's inhabitants descend directly from families expelled by the Romans, who moved a few hundred miles away, and who returned 1500 years later. the rest immigrated from S. America, Europe, etc. but were nonetheless still part of the same people. (Studies show that modern day Jews have more in common genetically with each other than with the non-Jewish populations in which they live. that means a German Jew shares more genes with an Iranian Jew than he does with his non-Jewish German neighbors.)
yes it's bizarre and unprecedented in history. and you clearly have trouble wrapping your head around it. and yet it happened.
This is crazy. Most sane, intelligent people would consider you a disturbed blind man. It's like arguing with David Duke.
If you believe the Torah is an accurate historical document, otherwise, it's debatable.
lol did you even read my poast? who said anything about the Torah?
every other historical evidence suggests that they are from wyoming.
Yes, it is.
like I said:
I stopped where you cited the study that was designed to find a link between Jews in Israel and Jews around the world, as finding, shockingly, the link it set out to find.
What can I say? You are a person so concerned with your racial identity you actually believe you're from a place your ancestors left two thousand years ago. My great great great grand-parents on both sides emigrated from Wales but I don't think I'm Welsh. If you're religious I think you believe a load of bullshit. If you're not religious I think you're so soft you were easy to brainwash.
Same old, Same old.
Ah, this is too rich. Call rootless a pomegranate head or whatever you want, but calling him soft is pure laughs. Man, I wish this conversation were in person! I'd wager good money that your corny ad hominem attacks and hackneyed bow-to-the-force-of-my-moral-indignation arugments would disapear mighty quick.
Really? I'll be at the next WFMU with a table.
And you might consider the "soft" as a descriptor of his brain. So you think he's a bruiser of sorts? Is he really fat? I hate fighting fat dudes. It's like walking in sand.
Really? I'll be at the next WFMU with a table.
And you might consider the "soft" as a descriptor of his brain. So you think he's a bruiser of sorts? Is he really fat?
If you can say the right thing to get him to knock your bad tooth out it'll be a win/win.
SWEET! All we have to do now is wait 10 months and then SHIT IS GOING DOWN!!!!
If you can say the right thing to get him to knock your bad tooth out it'll be a win/win.
That's true. Why can't the world be that just? I guess because it is what it is, no metaphysical garbage... that is, the kind of garbage that makes Israeli Jews feel they have some claim on land where they lived MILLENIA ago...
So... this is a big Jew vs. smalll Gentile argument? That's pretty cool. Can my girlfriend take pictures?
plaese to change your loc to west caer[/b]philly
b/w
Don't shoot the messenger
Thanks for posting this.
EXACTLY
ZING!
Ok foolios I'm out of this thread. Have fun talking in circles
Yeah... I agree. I'm out, too.
Yeah right. I give kid 6 hours until he's back.