Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121It seems more likely to me that McCain will pull a Hillary and try to reinvent himself as a populist. b,121b,121h,121
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b1Wave Of McCain Robocalls Reported, Some May Violate State Law/b1b,121b,121img src="http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2008/images/07/15/art.mccain.phone.jpg"1b,121b,121October 16, 4:37 p.m.b,121b,121The McCain-Palin campaign and the Republican National Committee launched a massive robocall campaign on Thursday designed to alarm voters about Barack Obama's past association with former radical Bill Ayers. The committee may be violating state law in the process.b,121b,121The call begins: "Hello. I'm calling for John McCain and the RNC," before telling recipients that they "need to know that Barack Obama has worked closely with domestic terrorist, Bill Ayers, whose organization bombed the U.S. Capitol, the Pentagon, a judge's home, and killed Americans."b,121b,121More remarkable than the message (coming after a presidential debate in which John McCain said he didn't care about a "washed up terrorist") is the reach of the campaign itself. The Huffington Post received dozens of emails from voters who had either received the call or gotten a voice mail with a recording. Reports came from Ohio, Colorado, New Mexico, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Missouri, North Carolina, Florida, Texas, West Virginia, Maine and even Georgia. b,121b,121b,121(read more at The Huffington Post) b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121b,121b,121This is unbelievable. My blood is boiling right now.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I doubt those posters are endorsed by the campaign. Independent groups do some suspect things in elections, but I doubt very much the McCain campaign is down with all that. 527s? Yes. McCain himself? No. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121actually they were both done by the republican party
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I doubt those posters are endorsed by the campaign. Independent groups do some suspect things in elections, but I doubt very much the McCain campaign is down with all that. 527s? Yes. McCain himself? No. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121They weren't 527s but the local chapters of the Republican Party. It's just another by product of the personal attacks the McCain campaign has lowered itself too. Another reason to say "F*ck them and John McCain"
Quote:/font1h,121b,121 b,121b,121b,121Can someone explain to me when in the debate this photob,121took place, and what the hell McCain is doing in it and why? b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121It was at the end, after Obama had shaken hands with Scheifer, and before McCain could. McCain zigged when he should have zagged, and that was his reaction... my wife was dying when it happened, and rewound saying, "Did you see that?!" It was funny in realtime, no doubt.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 b,121b,121b,121Can someone explain to me when in the debate this photob,121took place, and what the hell McCain is doing in it and why? b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121It was at the end, after Obama had shaken hands with Scheifer, and before McCain could. McCain zigged when he should have zagged, and that was his reaction... my wife was dying when it happened, and rewound saying, "Did you see that?!" It was funny in realtime, no doubt. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121youtube clip please. b,121b,121I watched the 2nd half at friends and we turned it off the second it was over.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 b,121b,121b,121Can someone explain to me when in the debate this photob,121took place, and what the hell McCain is doing in it and why? b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121It was at the end, after Obama had shaken hands with Scheifer, and before McCain could. McCain zigged when he should have zagged, and that was his reaction... my wife was dying when it happened, and rewound saying, "Did you see that?!" It was funny in realtime, no doubt. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121youtube clip please. b,121b,121I watched the 2nd half at friends and we turned it off the second it was over. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,1214:20 (no smoke-o) of this clip. Enjoy...b,121b,121b,121
Quote:/font1h,121b,121One interesting side point. One way we know the Republicans are preparing for the worst is that they are raising the ACORN stuff now. The party that screams about electoral fraud is almost always the loser. The truth is that both sides cheat in every election. Democrats try to add voters to the rolls, at times by registering imaginary people, dead people, felons. Republicans try to turn away voters through misinformation to disenfranchised communities. The Democrats for much of the 20th century, of course in the south, were the white supremacist party and supported apartheid voting laws and vigilante race terrorism, so they too used to turn away voters. But since 1960, this is usually how it is. The party that brings it up first, like Dems in 2004 and Republicans this year, is usually doing so because they know they are going to lose. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121I agree about the ACORN timing and the "voter fraud" cries, (although as an adjoinder, I'd argue that neither party - much less the "Dixiecrats" - would be easy for a person from the 1950s to ID nowadays.b,121b,121Hell, I actually think that ACORN might be the RNC's big "October Surprise." Pfft on that. There are 18 days to go come the next sunrise. I'd rather take Colin Powell repping Obama for $200, Alex.b,121b,121Regarding voter fraud: most voters are old enough to remember four and eight years ago, when the elections were close and GOP rumors were swirling (and I'm not whining about the actual outcomes - what's done is done). The point is - unless John McCain has some shit up his sleeve, ACORN will fall like a nut off a tree. Not sexy enough. 18 days left? There needs to be something nastily juicy to sway folks now. My guess is that we'll see a slash-and-burn campaign for the rest of the way. Since neither candidate needs to publicly face music in any further debates, McCain (and to a necessarily lesser extent, Obama) will be going all out.
I wish I hadn't seen the real thing, which was far lessb,121amusing and just looked like a natural goofy reaction thatb,121anybody would have. The photo maks it look like he is b,121making faces behind Obama's back while Barry is alreadyb,121thinking about what color to paint the Lincoln Bedroom.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 b,121b,121b,121Can someone explain to me when in the debate this photob,121took place, and what the hell McCain is doing in it and why? b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121It was at the end, after Obama had shaken hands with Scheifer, and before McCain could. McCain zigged when he should have zagged, and that was his reaction... my wife was dying when it happened, and rewound saying, "Did you see that?!" It was funny in realtime, no doubt. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121youtube clip please. b,121b,121I watched the 2nd half at friends and we turned it off the second it was over. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,1214:20 (no smoke-o) of this clip. Enjoy...b,121b,121b,121
Quote:/font1h,121b,121I wish I hadn't seen the real thing, which was far lessb,121amusing and just looked like a natural goofy reaction thatb,121anybody would have. The photo maks it look like he is b,121making faces behind Obama's back while Barry is alreadyb,121thinking about what color to paint the Lincoln Bedroom. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121yeah, the magic of an insta-snap photo makes it look like something far more bizarre than it actually is.
b,121b,121b,121SAY IT AIN'T SO, JOE!b,121b,121b,121heh b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121it isn't so. it's another smear from the credulosphere. I just want to point out that Obama approached Joe the plumber in his neighborhood, and because he was addressed in the debate, apparently it's legitimate for the netleft to go over every personal detail of the man's life. Stay classy Obama supporters.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121 I just want to point out that Obama approached Joe the plumber in his neighborhood, and because he was addressed in the debate, apparently it's legitimate for the netleft to go over every personal detail of the man's life. Stay classy Obama supporters. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121b,121Joe approached Obama, clown. And "Joe" wasn't just addressed in the debate,b,121McCain made him the focus and crux of his entire approach to the debate, clown.b,121b,121Stay clowny, fraud.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 I just want to point out that Obama approached Joe the plumber in his neighborhood, and because he was addressed in the debate, apparently it's legitimate for the netleft to go over every personal detail of the man's life. Stay classy Obama supporters. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121b,121Joe approached Obama, clown. And "Joe" wasn't just addressed in the debate,b,121McCain made him the focus and crux of his entire approach to the debate, clown.b,121b,121Stay clowny, fraud. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121Hold on, hold on. I don't think that it's fair that folks have gone to the nth degree on Joe, either. But in the intrest of equality, E**, just about everything about the man - including the "Joe" and "plumber" parts - was an equivocation.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Apparently dissent makes you nervous and jittery. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121Nah, clown. I'm cool and relaxed as can be. I have to assume youb,121are the nervous one, since you've stopped even bothering to dealb,121with reality and instead have resorted to crowing the party line,b,121despite how obvious it is to everyone how completely full of shitb,121you are. Clown.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 I just want to point out that Obama approached Joe the plumber in his neighborhood, and because he was addressed in the debate, apparently it's legitimate for the netleft to go over every personal detail of the man's life. Stay classy Obama supporters. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121b,121Joe approached Obama, clown. And "Joe" wasn't just addressed in the debate,b,121McCain made him the focus and crux of his entire approach to the debate, clown.b,121b,121Stay clowny, fraud. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121Hold on, hold on. I don't think that it's fair that folks have gone to the nth degree on Joe, either. But in the intrest of equality, E**, just about everything about the man - including the "Joe" and "plumber" parts - was an equivocation. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121Sure. We now know this. But Joe is a private citizen who asked a candidate a question at a campaign event. He did not seek notoriety. And then all of this cascades on him, and it comes from the left that seeks to discredit anyone who has a question for the anointed candidate. I think it's contemptible to ruin the guy's life to score a political point. Joe the whatever he is did not seek this attention.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121b,121Sure. We now know this. But Joe is a private citizen who asked a candidate a question at a campaign event. He did not seek notoriety. And then all of this cascades on him, and it comes from the left that seeks to discredit anyone who has a question for the anointed candidate. I think it's contemptible to ruin the guy's life to score a political point. Joe the whatever he is did not seek this attention. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121You fraud. Once again, you completely ignore the fact that it was b,121McCain who brought "Joe" up almost THIRTY TIMES in the debate - itb,121was HE who made "Joe" the focus of the entire debate. So stop tryingb,121to turn it on the "left" and go make some balloon animals or something.b,121b,121b,121b,121Clown.
Vitamin,b,121b,121Doesn't it worry you just a little, that "The Plumber" has done more interview's with the press in one day than the VP of the party you chose to back has done this entire campaign?b,121b,121I wouldn't worry. With all the Dems in power the next 4 years, you'll have plenty of time to bitch from the other side for a change when mistakes are made.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121Vitamin,b,121b,121Doesn't it worry you just a little, that "The Plumber" has done more interview's with the press in one day than the VP of the party you chose to back has done this entire campaign?b,121b,121I wouldn't worry. With all the Dems in power the next 4 years, you'll have plenty of time to bitch from the other side for a change when mistakes are made. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121I hadn't realized how many interviews he'd done. In this respect, it's slightly less odious. But I think the guy is entitled to his privacy. He did not ask to be a subject of the debate and certainly he did not ask to have his back taxes issues and other such matters exposed for everyone to talk about. I have no problem with this sort of thing for public officials, they make a choice to be in the public eye, or for celebrities. But this guy did not seek any of this.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 I just want to point out that Obama approached Joe the plumber in his neighborhood, and because he was addressed in the debate, apparently it's legitimate for the netleft to go over every personal detail of the man's life. Stay classy Obama supporters. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121b,121Joe approached Obama, clown. And "Joe" wasn't just addressed in the debate,b,121McCain made him the focus and crux of his entire approach to the debate, clown.b,121b,121Stay clowny, fraud. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121Hold on, hold on. I don't think that it's fair that folks have gone to the nth degree on Joe, either. But in the intrest of equality, E**, just about everything about the man - including the "Joe" and "plumber" parts - was an equivocation. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121Sure. We now know this. But Joe is a private citizen who asked a candidate a question at a campaign event. He did not seek notoriety. And then all of this cascades on him, and it comes from the left that seeks to discredit anyone who has a question for the anointed candidate. I think it's contemptible to ruin the guy's life to score a political point. Joe the whatever he is did not seek this attention. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121I agree with some of that in principle, but my sympathy for Joe is limited. Joe told reporters that Obama was meeting and greeting on his street, and the "plumber" walked over to the event with the express purpose of asking the Senator a tough question. In his attempt to "stump the candidate" in public, the man fabricated a scenario, presented as fact, for the world to see. He alone ventured this fabrication. It takes nothing away from the fact that Obama should have to face tough questions from every American. But Joe reaped the windfall of what he offered.b,121b,121When Steve Bartman f*cked up the Cubs for one certain out of a close MLB Playoff game, he didn't deserve to have ESPN post his name, home phone, work phone, and home address on their web site. But they did. That was a shockingly poor and unprofessional gesture on ESPN's part. And even though Bartman technically put himself in that spot to begin with, Bartman was not trying to make an example of the Cubs. The difference between the two unfortunate men lies in the difference between the sins of omission and comission. Joe (who is by all accounts a faithful Republican that is very well acquainted with Obama's specific tax $250,000 limit) purposefully lied to Barack Obama in order to trump him, and if I hold aside the fact that his scenario could have been true, his misstep ended up costing him his privacy for a few weeks.b,121b,121Again, nothing excuses muckraking losers from either side of the fence.
shouldn't we as citizens have the right to try to stump candidates who come to our neighborhoods? I suppose it's possible that he was a McCain operative. The New York Post on Wednesday had a story about this very incident and McCain pounced on it at the debate, probably based on the NY Post story. But none of us know any of that. The most plausible scenario is that he was out in his yard, Obama came through, he asked him a question and then the McCain campaign made of it what they did. At this point, Joe clearly embraced the media attention at first. But by the end of the news cycle everyone is talking about the poor guy's lack of a plumber's license and his back tax issues. My understanding is that a lot of this originated on Kos, which is a hyper partisan website. I thought that was inappropriate, to pry into his life because he asked the candidate a hard question.
Yeah maybe.b,121b,121But the guy should not have brought up a question like he did in front of camera's. He didn't say something along the lines of "I have a hypothetical question for you. What if I...". He more so implied that he was speaking his real life in the now.b,121b,121What's entertaining to me is that. With how his financials might be right now. He would probably come out ahead with Obama's plan.b,121b,121b,121He was just trying to throw a loaded question at Obama and seeing if he could make his plan look bad. He gave a nice speech in from of the cameras tonight on America and being proud and Americans should not be sorry for anything. That's capital of him!
Quote:/font1h,121b,121 because he was addressed in the debate, apparently it's legitimate for the netleft to go over every personal detail of the man's life. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121The mainstream press is going over every detail. And for good reason. b,121b,121Joe was mentioned more times in the debate than "my Friends", Bush, Middle Class, tax cut, Iraq, Ayers or Maverick. b,121b,121The press would not be doing their job if they did not find out who this guy was. b,121b,121It's funny that you think Obama's connection to Bill Ayers needs to be investigated more, even though it's an open book, but you are opposed to any one asking questions about Joe the Plumber, Sarah Palin, Cindy McCain, McCain's medical or military records, Keating, Singlaub or any of McCain's other shady friends.
Quote:/font1h,121b,121/font1Quote:/font1h,121b,121 because he was addressed in the debate, apparently it's legitimate for the netleft to go over every personal detail of the man's life. b,121b,121h,121
b,121b,121The mainstream press is going over every detail. And for good reason. b,121b,121Joe was mentioned more times in the debate than "my Friends", Bush, Middle Class, tax cut, Iraq, Ayers or Maverick. b,121b,121The press would not be doing their job if they did not find out who this guy was. b,121b,121It's funny that you think Obama's connection to Bill Ayers needs to be investigated more, even though it's an open book, but you are opposed to any one asking questions about Joe the Plumber, Sarah Palin, Cindy McCain, McCain's medical or military records, Keating, Singlaub or any of McCain's other shady friends. b,121b,121h,121b,121b,121b,121b,121Now now... Investigate the Ayers connection. But don't nobody ask a question on Palin's connections to AIP...
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