damn. this is a multiracial candidate....IN WISCONSIN good people, this whole shit is a big deal on fundamental levels. has this country finally grown up?
o,it was more shared sentiment than tactical advice for the clintons. i dont dislike hillary (and would gladly vote for her against kerry) but she just comes off as picky and contentious, while obama somehow is associated with this calm above the fray aura, focused on setting the ship right. i dont know if its more than just appearances...but he gives off a good vibe.
loved hearing a serious presidential candidate give "shout outs" to "the band...infinite groove"
Yeah, I feel that...I just think it's Clinton is going to ride this out to the end and frankly, it's what she should do. I dont want her to get the nom but I don't think she's wasting her time trying.
Peep - on Super Tuesday, a Strutter (who shall remain nameless), who I think is very astute about these things, basically said: "Obama is done. Mathematically, he can't come back." Yet...two weeks later and here we are. Stranger things have happened.
Are you baffled by the number or that it's Wisconsin?
Wisconsin has nothing to do with it, really. I'm just surprised at the turnout for a primary. In my lifetime, I cannot recall such a turnout this early in the game. People care about politics again.
And we're talking about a state where the temperature was about zero degrees.
Are you baffled by the number or that it's Wisconsin?
Wisconsin has nothing to do with it, really. I'm just surprised at the turnout for a primary. In my lifetime, I cannot recall such a turnout this early in the game. People care about politics again.
And we're talking about a state where the temperature was about zero degrees.
Are you baffled by the number or that it's Wisconsin?
Wisconsin has nothing to do with it, really. I'm just surprised at the turnout for a primary. In my lifetime, I cannot recall such a turnout this early in the game. People care about politics again.
And we're talking about a state where the temperature was about zero degrees.
Are you baffled by the number or that it's Wisconsin?
Wisconsin has nothing to do with it, really. I'm just surprised at the turnout for a primary. In my lifetime, I cannot recall such a turnout this early in the game. People care about politics again.
And we're talking about a state where the temperature was about zero degrees.
Let's just hope this fervor lasts until Nov.
If the not-even-day-old Cindy McCain versus Michelle Obama STORY!/non-story is any clue, then we're gonna see a nasty run to the House. Brace yourself for Rezko! Cocaine! (blackness.) LIBERAL! LIBERAL! LIBERAL![/b]
Yeah, I feel that...I just think it's Clinton is going to ride this out to the end and frankly, it's what she should do. I dont want her to get the nom but I don't think she's wasting her time trying.
if she doesnt win texas or ohio, even if they are rillllllll close, she needs to concede.
thats a big if, though. but im hoping dems are leery of a drawn out primary, while the GOP has their shit sewn up, and decides that,yes,obama is a strong candidate with momentum, so lets pile on that train
momentum does have play and sway. id like to have clarity in 2 weeks
Clinton's starting to play the "it's a dangerous world" card - a classic Republican tactic. It's amazing to me how quickly the Democrats that are in charge of her campaign will pick up tactics normally decried on the left for being alarmist or bullying.
Getting cut off mid-sentence as the networks all switched to Obama's speech =
i'm pretty sure obama is the antichrist. isn't the antichrist supposed to be a charismatic dude that everyone likes? we're all gonna end up with chips in our hands. harvey will agree with me here.
i'm pretty sure obama is the antichrist. isn't the antichrist supposed to be a charismatic dude that everyone likes? we're all gonna end up with chips in our hands. harvey will agree with me here.
i'm pretty sure obama is the antichrist. isn't the antichrist supposed to be a charismatic dude that everyone likes? we're all gonna end up with chips in our hands. harvey will agree with me here.
i'm pretty sure obama is the antichrist. isn't the antichrist supposed to be a charismatic dude that everyone likes? we're all gonna end up with chips in our hands. harvey will agree with me here.
Illinois Sen. Barack Obama has opened up a gaping 14-point lead over Democratic rival Hillary Clinton in a national presidential preference telephone survey conducted by Zogby International for Reuters news service.
And while Obama leads Republican John McCain in a national general election match-up, McCain, the likely GOP presidential nominee from Arizona, would handily defeat Clinton in a head-to-head contest, the poll shows.
In the national Democratic primary race, Obama not only wins big among younger voters, but has also made significant inroads and now leads Clinton among those likely voters ages 50 to 64 - the heart of the Baby Boomers - by a stunning 57% to 29% margin.[/b] This is a group of which Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, are members. Clinton had shown strength in that age demographic group in earlier surveys.
Obama, the first African-American ever to enjoy a serious opportunity to capture a major party nomination and the White House, also leads Clinton, the first woman with the same opportunities, among women. Having erased Clinton's advantage among female voters, the two are deadlocked at 44%. Among men, Obama leads by a 61% to 32% margin.
Obama's advantage spans most of the ideological spectrum - he leads by 23 points among progressives at the far left end of the political scale; by 16 points among mainline liberals; and by eight points among moderates. Only among the small percentage of likely Democratic voters who consider themselves conservatives does Clinton hold a lead over Obama - leading him by 14 points.
In the Republican primary race, the latest Reuters/Zogby poll shows that McCain enjoys a big 47% to 32% lead over rival Mike Huckabee of Arkansas. But despite a big lead in the delegate race and many endorsements from top-drawer GOP leaders, a significant chunk of conservatives do not yet appear ready to jump on to the McCain bandwagon. Among mainline conservatives, McCain leads Huckabee, 48% to 33%. Another 16% of conservatives said they either favored another candidate or were uncertain about whom to support, while Congressman Ron Paul won 3% backing from conservatives.
Obama's advantage over McCain in a prospective general election contest stems from his strong support among voters under age 65, among women and independents. Among African Americans, Obama leads McCain 80% to 3% with 18% undecided or favoring someone else, but McCain leads among white voters by a 47% to 41% margin, with 12% undecided or favoring someone else.
In a prospective McCain/Clinton match-up, McCain wins easily, 50% to 38%. His lead is based upon a 59% to 32% advantage among men, compared to Clinton's narrow 44% to 41% edge among women. While McCain trails Obama among every age group under 65, he leads Clinton in all age groups - his biggest advantage coming among those ages 30-49, where he enjoys a 53% to 35% edge.
Among African Americans, Clinton wins just 58% support against McCain, who wins 18% backing. Among whites, McCain leads Clinton by a 57% to 32% edge.[/b]
Pollster John Zogby: There are lots of significant numbers here, but what really caught my eye was Obama's gains among those age 50 to 64, a group which captures most of the Baby Boomers. Did Caroline Kennedy's endorsement and campaigning for Obama effectively remind Democratic Boomers of her father?
Also, the differential among African Americans is striking. By an 80% to 3% margin, they support Obama over McCain. But, in a Clinton-McCain contest, just 58% of African Americans say they will support Clinton, compared to 18% who support McCain, which makes me wonder: could there be disaffected African Americans who support Obama but who will be reluctant to support Clinton in a general election?
The Reuters/Zogby telephone survey was conducted Feb. 13-16, 2008, and included 1,105 likely voters nationwide, and carries a margin of error of +/- 3.0 percentage points. The subsample of Democratic likely voters included 494 respondents and carries a margin of error of +/- 4.5 percentage points. The subsample of Republican likely voters included 434 respondents and carries a margin of error of +/- 4.8 percentage points.
Wait until you see the map this year. An unknown, unvetted first term senator who hasn't won a single big state in the primaries, who is black and has a muslim name and ties to Nation of Islam, who's drug use must have been so widely known that he had to try and head-off the criticism by defusing it in his autobiography, who has been named the most liberal member of the senate. I mean, personally I like the guy and think he's a thoughtful civil servant who sincerely wants to help people, but I also think you're going to wish you listened to KVH come November.
Wait until you see the map this year. An unknown, unvetted first term senator who hasn't won a single big state in the primaries, who is black and has a muslim name and ties to Nation of Islam, who's drug use must have been so widely known that he had to try and head-off the criticism by defusing it in his autobiography, who has been named the most liberal member of the senate. I mean, personally I like the guy and think he's a thoughtful civil servant who sincerely wants to help people, but I also think you're going to wish you listened to KVH come November.
Wait until you see the map this year. An unknown, unvetted first term senator who hasn't won a single big state in the primaries, who is black and has a muslim name and ties to Nation of Islam, who's drug use must have been so widely known that he had to try and head-off the criticism by defusing it in his autobiography, who has been named the most liberal member of the senate. I mean, personally I like the guy and think he's a thoughtful civil servant who sincerely wants to help people, but I also think you're going to wish you listened to KVH come November.
Put that up against a geriatric loose cannon who has flip flopped on every major issue he's running on...
Yeah, I feel that...I just think it's Clinton is going to ride this out to the end and frankly, it's what she should do. I dont want her to get the nom but I don't think she's wasting her time trying.
if she doesnt win texas or ohio, even if they are rillllllll close, she needs to concede.
thats a big if, though. but im hoping dems are leery of a drawn out primary, while the GOP has their shit sewn up, and decides that,yes,obama is a strong candidate with momentum, so lets pile on that train
momentum does have play and sway. id like to have clarity in 2 weeks
The Gentle Lady from New York should promptly suspend her bid for the Democratic Presidential nomination.
Seriously. ^^^Notice the calm reasoned language. All jokes and shit talking aside, this is getting to be such a bad, bad look for her.
Clinton's starting to play the "it's a dangerous world" card - a classic Republican tactic. It's amazing to me how quickly the Democrats that are in charge of her campaign will pick up tactics normally decried on the left for being alarmist or bullying.
wait a second. its okay for obama to use identical language ("the clinton machine", "a divisive politician", etc.) in attacking the clintons as people like newt gingrich and rush limbaugh - but the minute hillary or any of her supporters talks about "experience" she is a bully and using republican tactics?
democrats were overwhelmingly supportive of the clintons - and now all of the sudden, you have michelle obama saying that - for the first time in her adult life, she is proud of her country. i don't find that offensive in the way that cindy mccain does, because patriotism is such an arbitrary term - but as a democrat, i think its unfair to bill- considering that obama isn't a more progressive candidate than either clinton. so if that is the case, why aren't they proud of what bill clinton did in the 90s? obama is running on the identical policies.
McCain can actually point to a number of bipartisan efforts he has initiated, rather than just talk about it - many of them successful.
But he'll get hit on what matters: torture, taxes, and the war.
Not to mention, dude just looks OLD. He's going to fall into the same trap Hillary did - the image of a retiree-age white guy ex-POW shaking his fist at the young, energetic, quasi-ethnic "hope" guy...
Clinton's starting to play the "it's a dangerous world" card - a classic Republican tactic. It's amazing to me how quickly the Democrats that are in charge of her campaign will pick up tactics normally decried on the left for being alarmist or bullying.
wait a second. its okay for obama to use identical language ("the clinton machine", "a divisive politician", etc.) in attacking the clintons as people like newt gingrich and rush limbaugh - but the minute hillary or any of her supporters talks about "experience" she is a bully and using republican tactics?
I think you fail to see the difference between the actual "Clinton Machine" and the ominous-yet-theoretical "Dangerous World Out There".
McCain can actually point to a number of bipartisan efforts he has initiated, rather than just talk about it - many of them successful.
But he'll get hit on what matters: torture, taxes, and the war.
Not to mention, dude just looks OLD. He's going to fall into the same trap Hillary did - the image of a retiree-age white guy ex-POW shaking his fist at the young, energetic, quasi-ethnic "hope" guy...
Clinton's starting to play the "it's a dangerous world" card - a classic Republican tactic. It's amazing to me how quickly the Democrats that are in charge of her campaign will pick up tactics normally decried on the left for being alarmist or bullying.
wait a second. its okay for obama to use identical language ("the clinton machine", "a divisive politician", etc.) in attacking the clintons as people like newt gingrich and rush limbaugh - but the minute hillary or any of her supporters talks about "experience" she is a bully and using republican tactics?
democrats were overwhelmingly supportive of the clintons - and now all of the sudden, you have michelle obama saying that - for the first time in her adult life, she is proud of her country. i don't find that offensive in the way that cindy mccain does, because patriotism is such an arbitrary term - but as a democrat, i think its unfair to bill- considering that obama isn't a more progressive candidate than either clinton. so if that is the case, why aren't they proud of what bill clinton did in the 90s? obama is running on the identical policies.
Wait until you see the map this year. 1.An unknown, unvetted first term senator who 2.hasn't won a single big state in the primaries, who is 3.black and has a 4.muslim name and 5.ties to Nation of Islam, 6.who's drug use must have been so widely known that he had to try and head-off the criticism by defusing it in his autobiography, who has been 7.named the most liberal member of the senate. I mean, personally I like the guy and think he's a thoughtful civil servant who sincerely wants to help people, but I also think you're going to wish you listened to KVH come November.
1.this can also be a positive.he can play it as "lacks the time in DC to have been completely corroded by corruption"
2.OH,TX,PA should give us clarity on that. he didnt get NY or CA. do you think McCain will carry those states? sorry, no
3.does Mccain want to make campaign issue out of this? this whole campaign depends on this country being able to rise above the fact that he's multiracial. If republicans cant do that. well, fuck us all then, you conservative fucks
4.and he's a protestant. true, fox and nbc will keep flashing pictures of osama. oops! and having "slips of the tongue". i can see his name being an obstacle for our oh so educated general public.
5.what are the ties?
6."must have been"? ive read testimony from people who said he was exaggerating and they could hardly picture him having had a problem back then. bush's alcoholism hardly derailed his rise to the throne. barrack uses it as a "this is where i avoided the pitfalls that affect many young black males"...transcendent storyline
7.named by who? fox? it is hard to see him as having taken anything but middle of the road stances troughout his short senate life
hillary would get mauled. obama compared to mccain is fresh vs stale, energetic vs decrepit
McCain can actually point to a number of bipartisan efforts he has initiated, rather than just talk about it - many of them successful.
Since when has this election hinged on experience thus far though? And in any case, as others have noted, McCain has some serious liabilities that will cost him in the general AND b/c Obama is an unknown, that may be a mixed blessing in both ways, gaining him votes as a cipher with moderate voters. I think Clinton backers are not going to shy away from voting for him (well, not in droves, unlike the other way around) and Obama and McCain are likely going to appeal to moderates on both sides of the party lines with, my feel, Obama gaining the upper hand. Of course, a lot can happen b/t now and Nov - if there's a big national security threat (conspiracists, start your engines!) then advantage: McCain. If the economy continues to tank, I'd think Obama would benefit. If McCain should have a heart scare, ala Cheney? Aiya.
Clinton's starting to play the "it's a dangerous world" card - a classic Republican tactic. It's amazing to me how quickly the Democrats that are in charge of her campaign will pick up tactics normally decried on the left for being alarmist or bullying.
wait a second. its okay for obama to use identical language ("the clinton machine", "a divisive politician", etc.) in attacking the clintons as people like newt gingrich and rush limbaugh - but the minute hillary or any of her supporters talks about "experience" she is a bully and using republican tactics?
I think you fail to see the difference between the actual "Clinton Machine" and the ominous-yet-theoretical "Dangerous World Out There".
i was just giving an example and while i agree that bush's fear mongering tactics are disgraceful and the dems should do anything and everything to distance themselves from that style - she obviously has more foreign policy experience considering obama has none, so unless her phraseology is bush-esq,its not an invalid point. i don't know the exact speech your referring to - but the fact that she said "its a dangerous world out there" - isn't by itself what i would consider bush territory.
Clinton's starting to play the "it's a dangerous world" card - a classic Republican tactic. It's amazing to me how quickly the Democrats that are in charge of her campaign will pick up tactics normally decried on the left for being alarmist or bullying.
wait a second. its okay for obama to use identical language ("the clinton machine", "a divisive politician", etc.) in attacking the clintons as people like newt gingrich and rush limbaugh - but the minute hillary or any of her supporters talks about "experience" she is a bully and using republican tactics?
I think you fail to see the difference between the actual "Clinton Machine" and the ominous-yet-theoretical "Dangerous World Out There".
i was just giving an example and while i agree that bush's fear mongering tactics are disgraceful and the dems should do anything and everything to distance themselves from that style - she obviously has more foreign policy experience considering obama has none, so unless her phraseology is bush-esq,its not an invalid point. i don't know the exact speech your referring to - but the fact that she said "its a dangerous world out there" - isn't by itself what i would consider bush territory.
McCain can actually point to a number of bipartisan efforts he has initiated, rather than just talk about it - many of them successful.
But he'll get hit on what matters: torture, taxes, and the war.
Not to mention, dude just looks OLD. He's going to fall into the same trap Hillary did - the image of a retiree-age white guy ex-POW shaking his fist at the young, energetic, quasi-ethnic "hope" guy...
He will look like this
its not a democratic primary anymore.
No - which means you guys have a lot more to worry about.
In almost every Democratic Primary, each candidate drew more votes than the entire Republican field put together.
Do you think that's going to change when it's Obama vs. Grandpa 100-years war?
Religious conservatives, riled up by Huckabee yesterday as he railed against the Republican Party, will sit a general election out... young people are energized... The big states will fall to the Democrats, much of the South and Midwest will also.
Many moderate Republicans will change their votes because of their college-age children, just like in the primaries.
Comments
Yeah, I feel that...I just think it's Clinton is going to ride this out to the end and frankly, it's what she should do. I dont want her to get the nom but I don't think she's wasting her time trying.
Peep - on Super Tuesday, a Strutter (who shall remain nameless), who I think is very astute about these things, basically said: "Obama is done. Mathematically, he can't come back." Yet...two weeks later and here we are. Stranger things have happened.
And we're talking about a state where the temperature was about zero degrees.
Let's just hope this fervor lasts until Nov.
-13 this morning.
If the not-even-day-old Cindy McCain versus Michelle Obama STORY!/non-story is any clue, then we're gonna see a nasty run to the House. Brace yourself for Rezko! Cocaine! (blackness.) LIBERAL! LIBERAL! LIBERAL![/b]
if she doesnt win texas or ohio, even if they are rillllllll close, she needs to concede.
thats a big if, though. but im hoping dems are leery of a drawn out primary, while the GOP has their shit sewn up, and decides that,yes,obama is a strong candidate with momentum, so lets pile on that train
momentum does have play and sway.
id like to have clarity in 2 weeks
Getting cut off mid-sentence as the networks all switched to Obama's speech =
Nah, that would make Tom Brady the antichrist.
Didn't everyone Frickin' love Reagan?
1984...
MN= anti-Judas?
... and Obama over Clinton with dems %52 to 38.
This is going to be a rough general election for the dems, but it's clear that Hillary doesn't have chance.
Zogby
naaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
Put that up against a geriatric loose cannon who has flip flopped on every major issue he's running on...
I don't know, I like our chances.
Republicans = so 8 years ago
The Gentle Lady from New York should promptly suspend her bid for the Democratic Presidential nomination.
Seriously. ^^^Notice the calm reasoned language. All jokes and shit talking aside, this is getting to be such a bad, bad look for her.
True. I can't stand Mitt Romney, but at least he was savvy enough to realize that he would only be hurting his party by staying in the race.
The rest of the country can point to 10,000 years in Iraq.
wait a second. its okay for obama to use identical language ("the clinton machine", "a divisive politician", etc.) in attacking the clintons as people like newt gingrich and rush limbaugh - but the minute hillary or any of her supporters talks about "experience" she is a bully and using republican tactics?
democrats were overwhelmingly supportive of the clintons - and now all of the sudden, you have michelle obama saying that - for the first time in her adult life, she is proud of her country. i don't find that offensive in the way that cindy mccain does, because patriotism is such an arbitrary term - but as a democrat, i think its unfair to bill- considering that obama isn't a more progressive candidate than either clinton. so if that is the case, why aren't they proud of what bill clinton did in the 90s? obama is running on the identical policies.
But he'll get hit on what matters: torture, taxes, and the war.
Not to mention, dude just looks OLD. He's going to fall into the same trap Hillary did - the image of a retiree-age white guy ex-POW shaking his fist at the young, energetic, quasi-ethnic "hope" guy...
He will look like this
I think you fail to see the difference between the actual "Clinton Machine" and the ominous-yet-theoretical "Dangerous World Out There".
its not a democratic primary anymore.
You on the payroll or what?
1.this can also be a positive.he can play it as "lacks the time in DC to have been completely corroded by corruption"
2.OH,TX,PA should give us clarity on that. he didnt get NY or CA. do you think McCain will carry those states? sorry, no
3.does Mccain want to make campaign issue out of this? this whole campaign depends on this country being able to rise above the fact that he's multiracial. If republicans cant do that. well, fuck us all then, you conservative fucks
4.and he's a protestant. true, fox and nbc will keep flashing pictures of osama. oops! and having "slips of the tongue". i can see his name being an obstacle for our oh so educated general public.
5.what are the ties?
6."must have been"? ive read testimony from people who said he was exaggerating and they could hardly picture him having had a problem back then. bush's alcoholism hardly derailed his rise to the throne. barrack uses it as a "this is where i avoided the pitfalls that affect many young black males"...transcendent storyline
7.named by who? fox? it is hard to see him as having taken anything but middle of the road stances troughout his short senate life
hillary would get mauled.
obama compared to mccain is fresh vs stale, energetic vs decrepit
Since when has this election hinged on experience thus far though? And in any case, as others have noted, McCain has some serious liabilities that will cost him in the general AND b/c Obama is an unknown, that may be a mixed blessing in both ways, gaining him votes as a cipher with moderate voters. I think Clinton backers are not going to shy away from voting for him (well, not in droves, unlike the other way around) and Obama and McCain are likely going to appeal to moderates on both sides of the party lines with, my feel, Obama gaining the upper hand. Of course, a lot can happen b/t now and Nov - if there's a big national security threat (conspiracists, start your engines!) then advantage: McCain. If the economy continues to tank, I'd think Obama would benefit. If McCain should have a heart scare, ala Cheney? Aiya.
I'm curious how the veep picks will play out.
i was just giving an example and while i agree that bush's fear mongering tactics are disgraceful and the dems should do anything and everything to distance themselves from that style - she obviously has more foreign policy experience considering obama has none, so unless her phraseology is bush-esq,its not an invalid point. i don't know the exact speech your referring to - but the fact that she said "its a dangerous world out there" - isn't by itself what i would consider bush territory.
The hair-splitting here is nano.
i am expecting and hoping for huge democratic turnout, for either candidate
No - which means you guys have a lot more to worry about.
In almost every Democratic Primary, each candidate drew more votes than the entire Republican field put together.
Do you think that's going to change when it's Obama vs. Grandpa 100-years war?
Religious conservatives, riled up by Huckabee yesterday as he railed against the Republican Party, will sit a general election out... young people are energized... The big states will fall to the Democrats, much of the South and Midwest will also.
Many moderate Republicans will change their votes because of their college-age children, just like in the primaries.
Sorry for your loss.